416 vs. 450r

[eagertorace]

I just got my 400ex back from the shop, broke it in yesterday.
I got the 416 installed and it absolutely rips!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I drag raced my brothers 450r and beat him by a quad length.
His is piped, jetted and just installed a rev box prior to the race,
and still bet him. He says he couldn't get any traction. Oh well, better luck next time. He'll probably see this thread (hope he does):D
I just wanted to share this with all the 416 guys.

Originally posted by eagertorace
I just got my 400ex back from the shop, broke it in yesterday.
I got the 416 installed and it absolutely rips!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I drag raced my brothers 450r and beat him by a quad length.
His is piped, jetted and just installed a rev box prior to the race,
and still bet him. He says he couldn't get any traction. Oh well, better luck next time. He'll probably see this thread (hope he does):D
I just wanted to share this with all the 416 guys.

your brother is a seriously piss poor rider if he couldnt beat a 416.. i mean the 450r is a extremly stout bike.. and weither he had traction or not, he would have tore you a new *** if he knew how to ride..

Jesse

[eagertorace]

Originally posted by Dirt Merchant
your brother is a seriously piss poor rider if he couldnt beat a 416.. i mean the 450r is a extremly stout bike.. and weither he had traction or not, he would have tore you a new *** if he knew how to ride..

Jesse

I bet he's a better rider than you are!:eek2:
Like I said, he'll probably read this thread.
by the way, watch your language:grr:
lol

[yamablaster24]

ON my bonestock blaster i beat a PIped 450r on mx track. Riders are everything. :D

[nosliw]

Originally posted by yamablaster24
ON my bonestock blaster i beat a PIped 450r on mx track. Riders are everything. :D

:eek:

apparently.

[Bigg Pimpin]

lol Everyone thinks just because it's a 416 it won't run with the 450's. A 416 built right will walk the dog on either of the new 450's with mild bolt on mods. Mine does on a regular basis at the sand and asphalt drags good rider or not.

Originally posted by Bigg Pimpin
lol Everyone thinks just because it's a 416 it won't run with the 450's. A 416 built right will walk the dog on either of the new 450's with mild bolt on mods. Mine does on a regular basis at the sand and asphalt drags good rider or not.

could i please get some of what your smoking please? im fresh out

Jesse

[Bigg Pimpin]

Originally posted by Dirt Merchant
could i please get some of what your smoking please? im fresh out

Jesse

Only thing I am smoking is 450's! No one ever believes till it happens to them. :D

and i guarnantee if you switched bikes, the one you were on would come out on top.. its all down to rider skill, period.

Jesse

[Bigg Pimpin]

Originally posted by Dirt Merchant
and i guarnantee if you switched bikes, the one you were on would come out on top.. its all down to rider skill, period.

Jesse

Been there done that! the 416 still won. Your average 416 will not run that good but it can be done is my point. Big cam, rev box, great port work and the right exhaust. The 450's are not all that until you put a good amount of work into them. If you did as much to a 450 as I have done to my 400 it would slaughter mine but most don't have that much work done. Heck I haven't even found a 440ex that will keep up with it. It's all about the right combonation. :D

[sharkinthepool]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by yamablaster24
ON my bonestock blaster i beat a PIped 450r on mx track. Riders are everything.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





:eek: apparently.


NOW THAT IS FUNNY RIGHT THERE!!!
I can't beleive some of the things that get wrote in these threads like this! Blaster? 416?

[Rico]

well a rapturd is a 660 and people still think a piped one will smoke a nicely built 416.....:rolleyes:


I think some people just can't face the truth an air cooled 416ex can hang and beat a 450 is some instances..:scary:

[gojk]

When I raced last, there were 2 400s and 2 yfzs and guess who was on top? Both 400s had motor work and suspension, while the yfzs just had suspension. Both 400s took the holeshot and took the race.

[eagertorace]

Originally posted by Bigg Pimpin
Only thing I am smoking is 450's! No one ever believes till it happens to them. :D

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[eagertorace]

Originally posted by Rico
well a rapturd is a 660 and people still think a piped one will smoke a nicely built 416.....:rolleyes:


I think some people just can't face the truth an air cooled 416ex can hang and beat a 450 is some instances..:scary:

rico, you hit the nail right on the head

[416HiRoller]

Well, the first race I raced this season, I pulled the holeshot against 2 yfz's, 1 banshee, a cannondale, and another 416ex on my 416ex and stayed up front all the way down the straight and for half a lap. So I guess it can be done but on top end there's probably no comparison. But I don't know I've never been topped out next to one of the 450's.

[GETWINGS]

people think that every time something new comes out it will beat anything out there and the older models can't hold their own i think bikes are as good as there owners and there style of riding. you have to think bikes built in the 80's will smoke 450's or 400's like the 250r 3 wheeler or 4 wheeler 85 86 350x all these where stout rides in there day and still are today if you can find them.i am not downing the 450's i am just saying that just because it's new don't mean it will beat anything or anybody out there.dirt merchant how do you know that dude didn't beat his brother on his 416 and then say his brother coudn't ride just beacause he has a new 450 truth be known you probably couldn't do it on either bike.

[JEFF400EX]

my two cents, some of the older stuff, that was out-lawed, they quit making that stuff for a reason.

IT WAS TO DAMN FAST !!!

don't even try and keep with some of us old timers.

(250r, tecate, 350x, all the old 3wheelers and Zilla's)
Its been a few years, and we havn't been just sitting around waiting for these new machines to race us, we've been building and playing and re-build and playing and even re-build even better.

take that experience and put it into a small 400 (416) and hang on!!

[Rico]

Take a stock 250x and run it against a stock 300ex.

250x is gonna take the checkers every time..

[FF1O5]

I wouldnt belive Rico's statement ,but Rico said it so I believe it.I wouldnt think a 250x could have takin a 300ex,being I had ridin them both from one time or another....maybe I didnt give the 250x a chance...I never raced them, ill have to let em' rip!!:macho

[Rico]

Sorry but all the ones I rode, the 250X revved faster and out did the 300ex.


YOu don't have to take my word for chit lady..:blah:

[416HiRoller]

Yea I think that the 250x's are faster than the 300ex's.

[eagertorace]

Originally posted by GETWINGS
people think that every time something new comes out it will beat anything out there and the older models can't hold their own i think bikes are as good as there owners and there style of riding. you have to think bikes built in the 80's will smoke 450's or 400's like the 250r 3 wheeler or 4 wheeler 85 86 350x all these where stout rides in there day and still are today if you can find them.i am not downing the 450's i am just saying that just because it's new don't mean it will beat anything or anybody out there.dirt merchant how do you know that dude didn't beat his brother on his 416 and then say his brother coudn't ride just beacause he has a new 450 truth be known you probably couldn't do it on either bike.

not one but two 450r that day:D , one had turf tamers on back and the other one had razrs, I was running holeshots:D (get it?holeshots!ha,ha)
my brother took his to the shop to get the hrc cam put in and some port work done, I'll let you all know the outcome

[GETWINGS]

tires have alot to do with take offs but so does the rider,what i was saying is that just because it's new don't mean it;s the badest bike made my riding buddy has a 85 350x all orignal we have raced several times and it's who ever get's off the line first and we are running the same tires. but you have to remember his bike is 20 years old not counting the 6 gear.

[Joecool1264]

Listen too brother Rico he is telling the truth! Spread the gospel a well built 416 WILL stay with near stock 450"s! Saw a 426 smoke a couple this weekend.

[tdsongster]

I did a thread similar to this a while back and I got a ton of replies that their new 450 would eat any 400. Comments were made like "the 400 is a tank", "it is slow", "old technology", even compared it to a recon.

It appears Rico is well known here since I DON'T see anyone giving him that kind of feed back.

[Rico]

Originally posted by tdsongster
I did a thread similar to this a while back and I got a ton of replies that their new 450 would eat any 400. Comments were made like "the 400 is a tank", "it is slow", "old technology", even compared it to a recon.

It appears Rico is well known here since I DON'T see anyone giving him that kind of feed back.

tdsongster sounds like his 416 is a nicely built EX that would hang with and beat 450's.


Well I don't want ANYONE to think that what I say is gold. I don't talk BS i'll just proove it, it's that simple. I"ve rode a 450R with HMF slipon and jetted and I was NOT impressed one bit. Kinda dissapointed to be honest. That same day I rode a YFZ with the baffle removed and airbox lid removed and was very impressed. Jumped back on mine and was like. Glad I have the trusty 416, feels much better to me, no hard hits up top like the YFZ or geared real tall like the 450R. what mine would do against a HRC kitted 450R I don't know or a simple piston upgrade in one or the Yammi. I'm also not stating mine will beat any 450 out there. I'm comparing it against piped and jetted ones.

I rode with several YFZ's and 450R's about 3 weeks ago and we went across a cut corn field that was at least 1.5 miles wide or wider. we all were tapped out and I was catching up with the 450's which were in front of me and the yammies were behind me and they never caught up or passed me. We didn't drag race but took off thru the feild in the above order. 450Rs up front, then me, then the yammies.

Now the new HRC cam I put in recently REALLY woke up the EX. With my old XR cam these results probably wouldn't have been the same.. I also have a Lower curve CDI that does not up the RPM's more than stock. IT's made for low end and not top end.

Also just putting a 416 piston will not do much for you and your not going to smoke 450's. There's more to it than that so don't think that a new 416 build with stage 1 hot cam is gonna be the king quad on the block because it's not..

I've got a freshly rebuilt 416.

My mods are below....

Bored .080 over to 416cc
HRC cam
JE Piston 10.8:1 Compression
Hinson Clutch Basket
Cometic Gaskets
Sparks Racing 8 Plate Clutch w/Heavy Springs
Sparks Heavy Duty Cam Chain
Sparks Racing Modified Carb
Lightened Flywheel
GT Thunder Porting
GT Thunder CDI
GT Thunder Air Box Intake Tube
FMF Powerbong Header
Red HMF Silencer with quiet core
K&N Filter w/Outerwear
Dynojets

[khen]

I don't have a lot of experience racing YFZ's/450R's with my latest build, but before I put the 450R carb on I could run with my buddies jetted YFZ with the baffle removed and the pro flow intake in a drag race through 4th gear(never raced through 5th). Over the winter he put on a full NMotion exhaust, did the cam mod and put on a Dyna CDI and I put on the 450R carb.. We haven't drag raced yet, but I'm looking forward to it. He claims the exhaust, mod and CDI made a HUGE difference, but I can also say that the 450R carb made a very big improvement on mine too. :D

[cals400ex]

rico, are you sure that mild curve gt thunder box doesn't raise the rev limit? my buddy just got one and he was nailing the stock one if the first 3 gears when dragging and now he isn't hitting it at all. he has the mild curve too, not the agressive curve like i have.

[Rico]

Originally posted by cals400ex
rico, are you sure that mild curve gt thunder box doesn't raise the rev limit? my buddy just got one and he was nailing the stock one if the first 3 gears when dragging and now he isn't hitting it at all. he has the mild curve too, not the agressive curve like i have.

Mines sort of a prototype that's not really on the market..:cool:

[eagertorace]

I got my rev box from alba, it revs to the moon. haven't reached the rev limiter yet and won't intentionly. plus it was pretty cheap.
does anyone know what other rev box is similiar to this one?

[Bigg Pimpin]

I have to agree with Rico. I have seen a lot of 416's 440's etc. that weren't real impressive and in no way would hang with one of the 450's but on the other hand I have seen a few and own one that will hang with any of the mildly modded 450's I have come across so far. I have lost a time or 2 due to bad launch or to much wheel spin in the dirt but I've ran quite a few at the asphalt drags and never lost.

Mine has a
416 JE 10.8:1 piston
TC Racing MX cam
cometic gaskets
HRC clutch
CRF timing chain
Sparks X-6 full system
K&N w/ outerwares
ATP Racing port work
ATP Racing modified carb
Dyna Tech programmable ignition

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by Bigg Pimpin
I have to agree with Rico. I have seen a lot of 416's 440's etc. that weren't real impressive and in no way would hang with one of the 450's but on the other hand I have seen a few and own one that will hang with any of the mildly modded 450's I have come across so far. I have lost a time or 2 due to bad launch or to much wheel spin in the dirt but I've ran quite a few at the asphalt drags and never lost.

Mine has a
416 JE 10.8:1 piston
TC Racing MX cam
cometic gaskets
HRC clutch
CRF timing chain
Sparks X-6 full system
K&N w/ outerwares
ATP Racing port work
ATP Racing modified carb
Dyna Tech programmable ignition


how do you like that TC cam? i am running the same came too. have you ran any other ones for comparison?

[Bigg Pimpin]

Originally posted by cals400ex
how do you like that TC cam? i am running the same came too. have you ran any other ones for comparison?

I like it pretty good. It's real good for an out the box cam has good power throughout but It does have a point where it falls flat and I am still looking for more top end. I am going to be looking into a custom ground Web before it's all said and done something to make more power from around 5k-10k rpm. I have a few friends with other cams in very similiar set ups but the TC imo is the best out the box except maybe the Web MX cam...I can't harldy tell much difference between the 2.

[dsheola]

Don't disrespect the 416
my 416 is faster then any yfz or 450 i've riden... i'm not saying that because its mine, it was just built right and absolutely hauls
It is mainly the rider but the motor, tires, gearing and suspension really makes a difference.

Thats just my 2cents on this

[JEFF400EX]

dsheola

you have this in your post:
"Aluminum airbox with battery inside"

Do you have any pics of the air box?

I would like to see the inside with the brackets attached in place and both the bottom and the back side.

Thanks
Jeff

[eagertorace]

went to the bike shop today to check on my brothers port work (450r) and it's coming along nicely, should have it done tomorrow. the weather's to bad to go riding though. he'll probably have way to much wheel spin now:rolleyes:

[eagertorace]

went to the mx track today to see how the new 416 done.
It done really well, had the extra power to clear the stepup double. rode one of the 450r's and it's got the torque!!!!!!!!!
no comparsion from the two, I would like to have a 450r but can't afford both. going to the drags next saturday, can't wait.

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by Bigg Pimpin
I like it pretty good. It's real good for an out the box cam has good power throughout but It does have a point where it falls flat and I am still looking for more top end. I am going to be looking into a custom ground Web before it's all said and done something to make more power from around 5k-10k rpm. I have a few friends with other cams in very similiar set ups but the TC imo is the best out the box except maybe the Web MX cam...I can't harldy tell much difference between the 2.

have you compared it to a stage 2 hotcam? i ran this cam before and my bike revved higher (which is what i want) but i also was running a piston that was 2mm's smaller. i don't know if it was the piston or cam that made the revving difference. i need to find a cam that makes great power between 6 and 9K too. i think this tc cam is designed to get from here to there quickly but i like the high rpms (this is how you win the drag races, with my motor anyways).

[Bigg Pimpin]

Originally posted by cals400ex
have you compared it to a stage 2 hotcam? i ran this cam before and my bike revved higher (which is what i want) but i also was running a piston that was 2mm's smaller. i don't know if it was the piston or cam that made the revving difference. i need to find a cam that makes great power between 6 and 9K too. i think this tc cam is designed to get from here to there quickly but i like the high rpms (this is how you win the drag races, with my motor anyways).

Yea and I like it a lot better than the HC 2 it pulls harder for longer IMO. I have no problem hitting the rev box with this cam but when I was racing on asphalt I could feel a point at about 9k rpm that it just didn't seem to pull quite as hard i.e. fell flat. Mine has very little low end you have to ride it on the pipe like a 2-stroke....no lugging it. I would like to get it to pull all the way to 10k to get the most out of it. I am going to try some different rockers and see if I can get a little more there and play with the Dyna ign. before I go having a custom cam ground.

[cals400ex]

i have considered trying megacycle cams. i know they have a few with a little more duration. however, they aren't cheap.