Setting Camber, Caster, and Toe..

[JhallettEX]

Here are a few pics of my front end, I have added the Houser A-Arms and aftermarket shocks. For some reason I don't think that I have my front end all tuned in yet. Can someone take a look at the attached pics and let me know if I have them adjusted right. Let me know any info. Thanks

[JhallettEX]

2nd

[JhallettEX]

3rd and last....thanks for the replys

[Colby@C&DRacing]

Josh their is a very informative article on how to set up A-arms on the web site http://www.cdracingonline.com and it is under tech tips or under Chassis in the atvproducts page. Hope this helps you out. If the link doesn't work let me know and I can copy and paste the page in an e-mail. The bike is looking good. :D

C&D Racing

[JhallettEX]

Hey, nice to see you on here finally, I just sent you a email, you might find it a bit funny. Read it or check out the post on under the mechanical section. And about the caster and camber, I have read that article you have a few times but can't get it right.

[beerock]

hey jhallet form the looks of your pics you have to much negative camber(I think this means the top of the tire is to far out)

bring it in so it angles inwards slightly.

I would do this by screwing the top ball joints in about 4 complete turns on both sides. then put them back on the spindles and look to see if it is lightly inwards on the top.

I cant get over how much the houser a-arms look like laegers....:rolleyes:

[Dave400ex]

Lonestar also has a Thing on how to Set Camber and Caster. Go to www.LSRacing.com and check it out.

[Crypted1]

Your toe should be about a quarter inch on each side and you camber should be about 5 degerees. A good way to set camber is to buy the carpenders protractor form sears and set each wheel to 85 degrees.

[JhallettEX]

I allready have the top ball joints turned all the way in, How about the bottome ones?

The bottom's should be screwed all the way in at all times,,,at least that's what John houser told me.. try setting the toe in first and go from there.

I'm possibly on crack today but it looks like your ball joints are bassackward,,like the top ball joint needs to be on the bottom and vice versa,,but I didn't think you could put the bottom ball joint on the top..at least not on mine,,but I think yours are different then mine..like I said I could be on crack today and not know it..the reason I say this is because the bolt on the top arm looks much bigger than the bottom bolt..big bolt on bottom smaller on top..if they were bassackward then it would give you a negative camber because one is longer than the other.

I keep lookin at your pics and the editing my post, LOL ,,I'm almost positive that's what it is man,,what chew other guys think??

[Texan32]

Rico does seem to be right. The uppers look a little bigger than the lowers. You also need to make sure the b-joints are strait. It looks like the upper left is twisted forward (i can see the top of the joint)

[fire x 2000]

I'm with ya on the set up there a pain in the a~~. I t took me 2 days, and i still dont think its right. From your pics they look identical to mine except that one balljoint (left upper) is twisted. I've read every article that there is on how to set up a front end and i still find my self pulling my hair out and drinking alot of beer. They say the top should be 5/8 of an inch in from the bottom but is that while the bike is on the ground or on a stand. Believe me it makes a difference. Do you measure from the top of the tire or the rim???? i've heard both ways. so i guess i'm not much help but i just wanted to vent my frustrations to so good luck.

[beerock]

I think rico go that right.
but didnt the arms come with the tie rod ends in them?

the best way to set the camber is to turn both bottoms in all the way and make them level with the ground(horizontal).

then turn in the fronts all the way and then count each turn out.

write it down too.

like 3 turns out from all the way in. this way you wont have to guess. or mark the top of the a-arm or tierod end with the amount of turns you turned the top tie rod ends out. like this /// -means 3 turns out

[JhallettEX]

Awwww S***, lotsa more work to do I guess. Good thing I will be without shocks for a few weeks while my ELKA's are on order. I will tear into it later tonight or tomorrow. Anyone else have any info to add (Maybe the Quadshop will know) how about it Jeff, whats your opinion on this. Thanks for noticing the F*** up Rico.

Originally posted by JhallettEX
Thanks for noticing the F*** up Rico.

I do my share of fugging things up myself,,I'm almost an expert at it. I agree with setting it up the correct way it's a pain..I know mines not perfect,,the camber is probably spot on but the toe in might be a little much on mine,,she's pigeon toed pretty good.:huh

[cdalejef]

It looks to me like everything Rico mentioned was correct. Swap the ball joints and run the lower ball joint in all the way then adjust from there. Everyone has different likes and dislikes on toe in and camber settings. Adjust it for what works best for you!

[Smoker]

I got my Houser a-arms last week and all four ball joints are the same size. They had the same marking on them also. I would measure from the edge of the a-arm to the end of the ball joint instead of relying on turns. You should measure toe also, measure from the center of the tire to center of the other tire, front and rear. I'm not sure what the best measurement is but I have under an inch narrower in the front. I also measure the tie rods from the edge of the tie rod end to the other end on both sides. Camber is what is tricky now, I see a lot of people running positive camber. Which is the best way to go?:p

[Dave400ex]

I think Rico is right. The Bottoms look smaller then the Tops. I thought they were all the Same Size but maybe not. There was a Movie on How To set Camber, Caster, and Toe. I don`t remember where I saw that. Just keep messing with it and you will get it. That`s what my Brother did on his Laeger`s.

[JhallettEX]

I talked to Kolby last night at CD Racing and he said that all four of the ball joints are the same and they are not in wrong. He also wne on to say that when he received his aarms he had to make the threads on the ball joints longer to give him the right camber and caster settings he needed. To be safe on this I went ahead and called Houser and they told me the same thing, Cant be the ball joints they are all the same. Jeff told me to email him some pics and he would help me out so I did. Just thaught I would inform the rest of you. Thanks for your help. I will let you all know what Jeff respondes with.

[Blackguywithouta400]

i have mine set to 5/8" camber and a total of 1/2" of toe in between both wheels so 1/4 on each wheel

[Smoker]

Best tan man, it's a shame you only have enough ground clearance for a short and curly under that back skid plate. I finish putting my bike together this weekend and was wondering just how little ground clearance I'll have with 18 inch rear tires, not much apparently. :p

[Dave400ex]

BlackGuy your 400 is Sweet. Have you got it all Fixed from that Hard Wreck you had?

Originally posted by Smoker
I finish putting my bike together this weekend and was wondering just how little ground clearance I'll have with 18 inch rear tires, not much apparently. :p

Here's a pic of mine with 18 ITP's on the back ta give you an idea,,,there's plenty of clearance for MX tracks...hope you don't plan on trail riding with em on there.:huh

[Blackguywithouta400]

Well that picture of my quad is with 20's on the rear the grass suckes up about 2" of tire. I wont run an 18" out here because we have big rocks on our tracks, its just the makeup of the soil here in Washington. My skid plate has to nuts as spacers to lower it so the chain and brake rotor will always clear even on the worst hits.

WarriorMan= Yes that picture is the after math of the crash, its all finished and running like a raped ape, last night i had my first track time on the bike with the a arms, shocks, axle and such and it was really nice i was able to chase down some 250r's and the thing flys real nice. Right this min as i type this my back is telling me to get the rear shock serviced. Also i need some new front tires Rico and i are discusing some Holeshot MX's 19 or 20" I dont think i can stand riding again with the stock front brake lines they suck compaired to my SS lines time to oder some for +2 a arms.

Originally posted by Blackguyona400
Right this min as i type this my back is telling me to get the rear shock serviced.

Are you sure the 27 year old wasn't over last night teachin ya a few things..:eek:

A rear shock service/rebuild/revalve is worth every penny I think.

[Blackguywithouta400]

I wish she was over last night, after working all day i rode for 3 hrs and did about 30 laps there was one section that i wanted to hit faster but just couldnt get the bike to do under control, i think i want even more compression on it until i get it reworked. I cant wait until i can get that 27 year old to make the 3hr trip down to the big city.

[beerock]

is the top tie rod ends screwed in all the way?

also, you showed two pics of the right side what about pics of the left side?

try screwing in the top tie rod ends all the way, and then measure from the tip of the a-arm(where the tie rodend screws into the arm) to the end of the tierod end(the ball joint end)


to make sure both tierod ends are the same distance apart

sometimes the wheel bearings make measuring the toe in and camber WRONG. soemtimes the camber is set different on bth sides because of the wheel bearings.
try doing it form the tie rod ends and double checking with the tires...

I have a 1987 250R with Houser A-arms on it (+3/+1). As delivered from Houser, they cannot be adjusted to have positive camber. With my upper ball joints screwed all the way in the wheels are just vertical. I talked to John Houser and he admits they are not made correctly. He advised me to try and make a spacer to go on the inside of the upper ball joint to be used instead of the inner (thin) jam nut. This would allow more camber adjustment.

I just wanted to say you are not alone in not being able to properly adjust your camber.

I will let you know if I have any luck machining these spacers.

[beerock]

if you look at the pics he has positive camber....

It looks like the wheels are vertical to me in those pics.

I know mine are - but mine is an R not an EX.

Just trying to help.

beerock,

I just copied this off one of your ealier posts. Did the pics change from when you posted this, or did you just change your mind on what you were seeing?

"hey jhallet form the looks of your pics you have to much negative camber(I think this means the top of the tire is to far out)"

[EXtreme-]

Black Guys pics shows an excellent example of negative camber...looks like about -3 degrees by eye.

Postitive camber, which no one wants on a quad, would have the upper sidewalls leaning out further than the lower sidewalls....almost like Jh's first couple of pics. He might be a + 1 or +2 degrees. It would be nice to at least get it to -0- degrees or on the negative side if there's room on the upper ball joints.

If there is no more threads left, then the thinner locknut idea will work like a charm....it doesn't take much to make a difference. Perhaps filing off some metal on the arm might be a good "plan B"

[JhallettEX]

Thats a good idea, using a smaller jam nut than what is on it know. I will have to give that a try.

...patience & double checking ,,is KEY here ..
I think most here have given good advise ...
wow no caster adjust ments ...hmm,..
no matter what ..(before riding)...make all nuts are torqued ...

[OCCRA288]

The guys that I race with have played with various toe in steeings. We find that the 400 responds really great to 3/4" - 1" toe in. This is just from the experience of a woods racer though. I'm not really sure on a MX setup.