What is the purpose of running high octane fuel?

What is the purpose of running high octane fuel, alcohol, or Methanol in a Banshee, 250R, or any quad? My friend is running 116 octane fuel in his Banshee and it hauls, but the fuel costs $8 a gallon. What are the advantages and disadvantages of running high octane fuel, alcohol, or methanol in a quad compared to using regular pump gas? What kind of modifications are required? Thanks,

AirManDan

1986/1988 TRX250R, 1988 Engine and Swing Arm, 1986 Frame, bored 40 over, V-Force Reeds, ESR TRX-6 Pipe, ESR Silencer, Keihen 36mm carb, Sidewinder Sprockets, Hinson Clutch Basket, K&N air filter, Nac's Case Saver, TM Designs Chain Slider, Renthal Handlebars, CR250 Clutch lever and Perch, Lonestar Supertwin bearing carrier, Pro Design Kill Switch, Pro Design Power Shifter, Shredders all around on Douglas red labels, and a Clarke 4 gallon tank. Just bought some GBC Sand Devil Paddles on ITP rims.

Future Mods: The NEW Shiny Orange or Silver Maier plastic, new seat, Roll Design Steering stem, RPM Dominator +4 axle, RPM Hubs, Roll Design +2+1 a-arms, and some new front tires with some ITP rims.

[JustRace]

The only time you need to run racing fuel is when you have a high compression piston. The higher the octaine less chance of it detonating under load. On a stock ex and compression ratios up to 11:1 there is no sence of using anything higher than premium from a regular gas station.

Since i only have a little idea on alcohol I'll let someone else explain that.

[TRX250EXER]

he is exactly right. Octane is just how much pressure the feul can take before it combusts without a spark. on high compression motors a normal pump gas will ignite by the compression and you will hear a knocking noise in the motor. People call it a spark knock. so the only thing race gas does is make a motor run smoothly. its all in peoples heads when they think it makes them go faster.

What kind of modifications are required to run alcohol or race gas? If you are gonna use alcohol, don't you have to buy an alcohol carb? What else is needed? Do you need any kind of special fuel pump, reeds, piston, or special head? I know you need a good ignition for alky setups. Wouldn't alcohol burn up your piston? What would be better to use alcohol or high octane fuel? What is cheaper?

AirManDan

1986/1988 TRX250R, 1988 Engine and Swing Arm, 1986 Frame, bored 40 over, V-Force Reeds, ESR TRX-6 Pipe, ESR Silencer, Keihen 36mm carb, Sidewinder Sprockets, Hinson Clutch Basket, K&N air filter, Nac's Case Saver, TM Designs Chain Slider, Renthal Handlebars, CR250 Clutch lever and Perch, Lonestar Supertwin bearing carrier, Pro Design Kill Switch, Pro Design Power Shifter, Shredders all around on Douglas red labels, Clarke 4 gallon tank, and just bought some GBC Sand Devil Paddles on ITP rims.

Future Mods: The NEW Shiny Orange or Silver Maier plastic, new seat, Roll Design Steering stem, RPM Dominator +4 axle, RPM Hubs, Roll Design +2+1 a-arms, and some new front tires with some ITP rims.

[Stock98EX]

I dont know if its the same as a car or truck engine, but. The higher the octane the cooler the combustion temperature is. So if you have a cooler engine. The air going into the engine is more dense, which makes more power.

[whiteknuckle]

trx 250 is way wrong here in last months issue of one of our atv mags "i got it here somewhee ill post mag and page later today when i get the mag outta my wifes car" they did a gas shootout they tested several different kinds of gas including racing fuels as well and found that all the different gasses gave diffeent horspower and even fresher gas gave better horsepower than older gas did. they said if they had played with the jetting they could have made the differences of each gas even more apparent but didnt to keep it fair to all the gasses tested so yes diffeent gasses do provide more or less power! i believe they did this test on a slightly moddified quad i dont believe it was a race bred scream machine! i run 93 octane in my 2002 400 ex and i add a can of octane booster to every five gallons of gas so im running close to 100 octane. a mechanic friend of mine told me that the higher the octane you run the cleaner the carb and all the other precious stuff in youre cars fuel system will be so i assume the same goes for our quads also i know i get better gas mileage with premium in my grand cherokee so why wouldnt the same be true in a quad? just maybe not as noticeable! so i say run the good stuff especially if you have a high performance quad like mine if youre running a 250 ex or something thats stock id say just the middle grade would be fine, but the good stuff cant hurt ya any!

[JustRace]

WhiteKnuckle, you are the one who is wrong. There is no point in running a race fuel or even octaine booster in a stock EX motor. You might as well just send the extra money to me. Mickey Dunlap even commented on this.

[whiteknuckle]

ok man i guess the guys in the mag made the story up cause they had room to fill and forgot to do another column right? they made up all those numbers and results at a kegger the night before theyre articles were do i guess! and dont you know that the higher the octane in a car the cleaner and cooler it runs? thats straight from a mechanic so wouldnt the same be true in a quad? nope i guess npot they are just worlds apart right? not! same thing applys here it might not get you anymore power thats noticeable in a fairly stock ex but i gaurantee you its burning cooler and cleaner! and i wouldnt run race fuel thats stupid but i gaurantee you the octane booster helps when youre running that high of rpm's you want to run the coolest burning cleanest fuel you can and ill tell ya the booster aint hurting none! and its proven to add horsepower in cars so here we are again how can it not help in our engines? i guess here its just a matter of opinions but ive heard from two very reliable sources so far that it helps so ill go with them on this one

[JabberJaw]

I can tell you this, I was at the dunes in Florence Oregon this weekend, and had originally purchased 92 octane gas, and after running out of fuel had to purchased 87 octane from the campground I stayed at...

The difference is that I was pulling most of the steep hills in 3rd with the 92 octane gas but could not the next day with the 87 octane fuel... maybe it has nothing to do with it... but I believe it did help to have higher octane fuel and is the reason for the change in power.

whiteknuckle I read that article too and I think they were using hopped up 250R's with changeable domes to make up the difference in compression settings for each type of fuel. I don't beleive they had stock motors or quads for that matter,,reason being is they know too that a stock motor running race gas will get ya know were but poorer...

Bottom line is a stock motor gets nothin out of higher octane fuel..sorry man but that's the facts.

and what jabber was talking about makes since too,,but in the owners manual,,it only rates the gas to be used as 93 or something,,but know were does it say 100+ octane should be used. 87 octane is the bottom of the barrel crap gas,,93 is much better,,but I don't think the 400 motor is gonna do much more with 100+ octane compared to 93..

[Wired]

higher octane gas smells better, now thats a fact! :D :blah and the only reason we use race gas in our R is because of the higher compression. the head was milled and a port job was done to it.

[whiteknuckle]

well i think you guys are both sorat right im not saying yo both are clueless here and yes the race engines benefit more form race fuels but im not talking about race fuels here! i also know that back home everyone runs this stuff called turbo blue thats like 114 octane or something and its supposed to be the best so go figure i do know that it helps to run really good gas in cars so i believe the same to be true for our quads like i said its all a matter of preference here. i dont think those quads were all that hopped up in the shootout but at 3 pm when my girl gets home ill get the mag out og the jeep and look it up and ill let ya ll know. i think they were four strokes too not two's but i could be wrong! point is the higher the octane the cooler and cleaner a fuel burns so that is not going to do anything but help! i wouldnt run 115 octane race fuel like that turbo blue but i think close to 100 is good they say 92 or better in my honda manual but thats cause thats all that is available at the pump if 97 was available would they recomend that? maybe, i dont know.

[knighttime]

I think 100 octane or so would be best in a 400ex, especially one that has had some engine work.

[whiteknuckle]

well thats about what im running and i think the higher the octane the cooler and cleaner youre running its up to evryon else to make theyre own assumption!

EVERYONE,

Check out this link, I think you will find all your answers here.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=search.php&url=http%3A%2F%2Fenvironment.about.com%2Flibrary%2 Fweekly%2Fblcars3.htm%3Fiam%3Dhowstuffworks_SKD%26 terms%3Doctane

This is the best website if you ever want to find out about anything... http://www.howstuffworks.com

[whiteknuckle]

man thats a cool site im surprised ive never heard of it! man that is bullcrap about the octane though i mean yea they are right about what it does but i can tell you i get fifty mile per tank more out of 92 than i do out of 87 and thats a fact jack. also i know it runs cleaner i mean my buddy wouldnt have told me and all his customers to runit if it were bull and ive heard the same thing he said many other times elsewhere. also i get better pickup in my car out of higher octane i mean you can really tell the difference, now it may be that i have one of those cras that really reacts to a higher octane gas who knows, but im sure there is some validation to higher octane and octane boosters if they are selling the stuff i mean i know there are alot of gimmicks out there but most gimmicks stem from truth so make youre own conclusion! me im sticking with 100 octane! only the best will do for my zooter!

[JabberJaw]

The article makes sense, but for one thing, the Honda manual says to use 92 octane for the 400ex (Premium Grade) which would mean to use the best gas they have at the pump....and for another thing, they did not mention timing, it too can make you car knock or ping... there may be other variables that come into play.

[whiteknuckle]

jabberjaw thats exactly what i said about the manual so im sticking with the good stuff i allready run 93 but the octane booster stays it only adds about 60 cents a gallon its not gonna break me financially!

Originally posted by whiteknuckle
i mean my buddy wouldnt have told me and all his customers to runit if it were bull and ive heard the same thing he said many other times elsewhere.

Well I'm in Indiana all the time, ride with boys from IN and some of my best buddies are from IN and for some reason all hoosier's think turbo blue is the secret fuel nasa uses and that it will add tons of power to any motors...not bashing you or flaming you,,I just found it humorous no offense intended..

[whiteknuckle]

lol i live in indiana but when i said back home i meant pennsylvania! i didnt even know they sold that stuff here! ive asked around once or twice and everyone acted like i was from mars! so they really sell it in indiana huh? thats cool ill look around! i dont believe its a wonder fuel or anything and i wouldnt even buy it at the insane cost they charge for it but ive never seen it since i left pa!

Ping or knock from timing is a completely different scenario than cheap fuel knock though, correct?

Whiteknuckle, I've heard all the stories before, but when I need the answers, I go to the source. My dad is as well a mechanic, and he absolutely disagrees with claims that higher octane fuel runs cleaner or makes cars faster. But hey, to each his own, I'm not here to condemn anyone for their choices or opinions, if it works for you, use it, I would if it worked for me...

You know what I think? I think it's a government conspiracy, just another cash grab. I hope I don't go to jail for treason for saying that!

And yes, the manual does say run 92+, and I run 94. Only one gas station up here in Canada carries it, but they're not hard to find, and the price difference is nominal.

[Lorduss]

well, higher octane fule gives you an advantage,
but along with the compression/octane rating,
you run a higher compression, and match with proper octane fule, you get more HP, better response.
its all around better, it does burn your cylinder faster, but in the search for HP, its one of your options, but you have to rember every thing you do effects other parts of your engines, and getting some mods like this early on can make maintnecnce and further mods harder to tune. so its all up to you.