hrc cam installed wont start help!

[450rkydude]

installed the hrc cam last night done everthing step by step with the service manual and the write up the guy did on trx450r.org and also installed the t breater and the 185 jet. i already had the other parts of the hrc kit installed for a while.so heres the problem we kicked it forever and it would never start and it was flooded so we dried the plug and finally got it to start but only if you hold the gas to a little under half throttle and it wont idle as soon as you let off the gas it dies,i just took off on it and rode it and it seemed to run great as long as your in the gas always revving it,but let the rpms down and it dies.so next i put back in the 180main and back to 2 turns on the fuel screw and same thing but seemed to run smoother.we double checked the timing marks and they all were in line before we put it back together if it would just idle it would be okay i think.

[BOONE450R]

Ok never, never ever touch the gas while kicking it over, for VERY bad things will result from this. :ermm:

Which needle do you have in it and what clip is it in? Did you mess with the Idle any? Chokes not on is it? Are you running the HRC lid? Have you checked for Vacuum leaks?

I know you said you checked the timing but triple check it to make sure that ALL the timing marks line up 100%.

Those are some of the things that come to mind with the problems you stated.:cool:

[450rkydude]

okay didnt know not to give it any gas we just thought it was not getting any.the hrc needle is on the 3rd clip,yes we played with the idling screw but it does not seem to do anything heres something i did remember doing okay the hrc cam is in the camshaft holder and getting ready to undo the zipties and put the sprocket back on and we hade to tilt the cam to math up with the sprocket bolts and the hrc manual said the lobes should be straight up but they were not straight up when we installed it could this be the problem.

[BOONE450R]

The lobes will be up and pointed to the back just a little. Did the cam marks on the cam sprocket line up with the cam holder along with the timing marks on the Clutch side? Also make sure the decompresser is not being engaged(sitting on top of the bump).

[450rkydude]

thanks boone for the help. i just took it back apart the timing marks on both sides of the sprocket are lined up with the cam assembly arrows.on top dead center everthing lined up the cam lobes is pointed right at the carb though is this the problem.

[BOONE450R]

If all the marks lined up and the lobes are pointed in the vicinity of up and back then that part is fine. Did you by chance mix up the valve shims? Did you check the valve lash also? Did you pull the carb to change the jet or loosen up the flanges? (vacuum leak)

[mikes450r]

Originally posted by BOONE450R
If all the marks lined up and the lobes are pointed in the vicinity of up and back then that part is fine. Did you by chance mix up the valve shims? Did you check the valve lash also? Did you pull the carb to change the jet or loosen up the flanges? (vacuum leak)

so if all my marks are lined up and the cam lobes are pointing down and towards the front i have a problem. so i need to take to off and relign it. i dont know how it ended up like that.

[BOONE450R]

if you have a service manual look on page 4-8.

[mikes450r]

ya i see it. i just dont know how it got like that.

[mikes450r]

i went to check my clearances and noticed it was like that. You check all the shims at top dead center right..

and also what happened with trx450.org

[BOONE450R]

It might be 180 out.;)

[mikes450r]

so i just need to take the sproket off and 180 the cam right.

[BOONE450R]

Try rotating the crank around till the marks on the clutch side meet again. Then see if its right.

[mikes450r]

do you know whats up with 450.org

[wppracing]

Luke said he is working on the problem and try back in a couple of hours.

[450rkydude]

i think i may have found the problem i noticed some scoring on the lobe closest to the cam chain side do you think i got the shims mixed up when putting them back on would that cause it to put marks on the cam,i checked my stock cam and it didnt have a mark on it anywhere i do know the shims were diffrent sized one was (o)and the other was (0) size wise to give you and example do you think they were diffrent sizes, i will have to wait untill i can get some help before i can take the camhousing back off.one more question iff i got the lifters mixed up would that make a diffrence or are they the same.

[mikes450r]

im pretty sure the lifters are the same..

[BOONE450R]

Scoring :huh can you take a pic? It would be very very likely that all your shims are different sizes. Just by mixing up the shims would not or should not have scored the cam.
Did you check your clearances when you were done.:confused:

[Smoker]

Some people should pay to have their engine work done.:p

[mikes450r]

Originally posted by Smoker
Some people should pay to have their engine work done.:p

you know some people like to learn how too work on their engines and figure the **** out. We are not as furtunate as you to know everything right out of the canal.

Originally posted by mikes450r
you know some people like to learn how too work on their engines and figure the **** out. We are not as furtunate as you to know everything right out of the canal.

don't worry, mike. look at the guy's screen name and sig.... do you think he actually knows how to do anything other than push the throttle and pass the credit card?

[Smoker]

I deserved that, look, I think it's cool that your tackling your own motor work, it's too expensive to pay someone to work on these things so you have to learn on your own. Sorry to hear your having trouble with the cam install, that's rough. I hope you get it worked out. By the way, I'm getting my degree in engineering, and I don't smoke anything, Smokers are from waterworld but I know everyone thinks it's smoke I'm talking about so I put the other thing below my sig. Sorry to be a tool, good luck with everything.:p

[KEVIN132]

you must undo big allen threaded into brake side and line up those marks then check to see if factory cam sprockets line up THIS IS TOP DEAD CENTER. there should be factory paint on parts so you dont f up. you just can not line up cam marks!!:D

[BOONE450R]

Originally posted by KEVIN132
you must undo big allen threaded into brake side and line up those marks then check to see if factory cam sprockets line up THIS IS TOP DEAD CENTER. there should be factory paint on parts so you dont f up. you just can not line up cam marks!!:D
Please reread fourth post.

[KEVIN132]

it says nothing about the aligning the marks under the allen though thanks ,down by brake lever!this is the first thing in the book!

[BOONE450R]

Clutch side??????:huh

[Varmit57]

Sound like the same problem I had with the Hotcams Stage 2 and a new FCR. I set everything just like the book said and it wouldn't start at all in the cold.

A freind (Motor builder) told me to set the compretion release to .025" insted of .006" like it said in the book.

That fixed it for me!

He also suggusted to set the Air screw to 1 3/4 out and use a 48 piolt.

Hope it helps and I applaud you for doing it yourself. Its not rocket science and everyone need to learn.:D

[mikes450r]

what did you guys set your decomp are at

the manual says like 17mm....but a shop told me 27mm

what do you have yours set at

mike

[BOONE450R]

The HRC book states

Decompresser clearance:
Adjusted exhaust valve clearance+ 0.25mm +or- 0.02mm(0.010in +or- 0.0008in)


You will need to add the exhaust valve clearance to that number.

So you should be some where around 0.53mm total(.021in)



The manual has the stock cam set a little lower.

Adjusted exhaust valve clearance+ 0.15mm +or- 0.02mm(0.006in +or- 0.001in)



The exhaust valves should be set to 0.28mm +or- 0.03mm (0.011in +or- 0.001in)

[mikes450r]

damn mine was set at 17...my right side exhaust is at 11...so add that to 25mm ...i should have it set at .035mm then...right

[BOONE450R]

is that .011in or 0.11mm? i hope IN. in MM the exhaust side valves should be .28mm +or- 0.03mm (0.011in +or- 0.001in)

[mikes450r]

my exhaust is .011

it must be inches

[dirtriderex]

When I put my cam in I lined up the timing marks and when I put it togethar it would not start. When I took it to the honda dealer they said I didn't do the timing right. So that is most likly your problem

[BOONE450R]

Mike i think your getting your units of measurement mixed up.

[mikes450r]

lol..probably :confused:

both my exhausts are set at .011 or .28 mm
and my intakes are set at .006 or .15mm

thats probably better now..i went and got my feeler gauges

mike..

so what should i set the decomp too

[culookn]

hey boone i have a ?. i read the write up on trx450r.org on the cam install. it says takeing the plug out on the throttle side and lineing up the mark on the crank to the mark on the case on the compression stroke? how will i know its on the compression stroke instead of the exhaust stroke? if i zip tie the shain to the sprocket, cant i just put the cam in and bolt it right up since the chain and sprocket didnt move? sorry about the stupid questions. im a rookie when it comes to 4 strokes.

[mikes450r]

just get a long screwdriver and stick it down the spark plug hole..when your turning the crank shaft by the foot brake the screwdriver will go down and then back up..when the screwdriver goes all the way up your on top dead center..thats where you line up the marks..

mike

[culookn]

will the stage 2 cam have a tab or mark on it to line up according to the sprocket or can the cam go in any which way?

[mikes450r]

first set the top dead center...make sure the marks on the cam sprocket line up also..take the sprocket off and zip tie it..when you put the new cam in make sure the cam lobes(the pointy sides) point towards the back and up at an angle..example....if you were sitting on the quad the cam would be pointing at your nuts.....:D

and make sure you check all your valve clearances..and stick a towel under the cam sprocket b4 you take the cam case off...that way you dont loose any shims down the motor...

mike

[mikes450r]

when are you doing this..

[culookn]

ill probably be doing this in the next week or so, why?

[TRX250R87]

On Friday I installed my HRC cam. I have very little knowledge about 4 strokes but have done everything to my 250R's in the past.
I started by doing some reading on trx450r.org and found a section of FAQ's where THIS (http://www.rockinhorseweb.com/trx450r_hrc_install.html) acticle was. I printed it out and with a tube of assembly lube, I started the project.

I think it took me about 3 hours from start to finish to install the cam, needle, and main jet. This included removing all plastics and gas tank and reinstalling them after. Keep in mind it was about 25*-30* in the garage so I spent some time in the house to warm up and assemble the new parts. After following the instructions and assembling everything. I turned on the gas and it started on the 2nd kick. Everything sounded good.

I ended up using the stock shims and plan on checking them after some break in. One thing I would recommend doing is after zip tying the cam gear to the chain, also zip tie them to the frame rail.

ERIC