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Toadz400
02-26-2005, 12:01 PM
Is it true that the ATK is hard to start? I was just reading a shoot out in ATV Sport and the ATK VR came in last and third in the two different shoot outs, and one of the major concerns was the starting method.

Here's what the magazine has to say about the starting:

"Even though the ATK is fuel injected and has electric start, it was the most ill-tempered starter of the group. The system required us to quickly tap the ignition button and then re-engage it and hold it until it fired. While that sounds easy, it didn't work all of the time. Applying the throttle didn't help, so we just had to be patient and tried not to stall the engine while riding. One test rider called the ignition "dumb," and another said it was inexcusable for a machine of its price to have such a calamity."

My 400ex is near being sold and I am currently restoring my Banshee to sell it also and I was planning on buying an ATK 450VR because of the high technology in it, but this concerns me. Has anyone else had problems like this?

jesshamner
02-26-2005, 12:36 PM
You should completely disregard that entire arcticle about atk. If you pay look at it closely, they complain about everything on the atk. They complained about it being too fast! The atk starts easier than the old cdales and my cdale doesn't start hard. The only time you have to start it differently is if its cold. But its even easy then. You just turn the key on, bump the starter, and then hold the starter for 2 seconds at a time until it starts....which should be on the 1st or 2nd try. Any other time, it should start right up on the first touch of the starter. There is an entire thread about that article pointing out things that are wrong at cannondaleriders.com.

Toadz400
02-26-2005, 02:19 PM
Yea I was totally disgusted by that article and how the ATK came in 4th and 3rd for woods riding and MX riding. I couldn't believe how much they were complaining about everything. Even the supposedly stiff throttle, even though the "almighty" YFZ has a stiff throttle that a lot of people used to complain about.

I think the person who rode the ATK just didn't know what they were talking about, if they don't like it...they can give it to me:D .

DRT
02-26-2005, 06:37 PM
one thing to look at in that write up.In the cross country write up they kinda say the same thing when they talk about the yamaha vs. ATK.But its bad for an ATK to rev like a two stroke and O.K. for a YFZ.Another thing was they said the ATK was modded due to the suspension.But they just did a write up in the Polaris a month or 2 ago.The Polaris Pred TLD addition has fox rezzie shocks and a different gear raotio in the trans vs. a stock Pred.So why wasn't the pred listed as modded also?

I'm not bashing anything here but the magazine.They wrote about the ATK and the shocks.Well ATK quads do come with optional Elka's.They basicly sent out a Cannondale moto.I feel after reading that its all about the money involved in advertizing.Who gives them the most loot..............

As far as starting a ATK/Dale I have no porblems.

Sandgod4
02-26-2005, 10:22 PM
Travis an ATK wrench was at the test.. Here's what he saw..

i was there at the test.
1st, all but 2 of there riders are trail boys "slow riders". i tried to explain the cold start procedure but they're all goof'n off, no one listened. they just wanted to ride. the whole fuel injection is over there heads.

they also noted on the speed test it was a moded vr. all that was moded was it that it had the cross country "blaze" shocks. and they said it was a $2000 upgrade? at that price you can buy the cross crountry model and get the wide axle, wave rotors and more...

also said its too agressive for trail riding, ain't that what we all want? MORE POWER!!! they are all young slow riders, it was to much for them!

and they said its has to be kept rev'ed for optimum power? i don't know about either. these things have way good low end torque clean through mid to the high rpm's.

the whole atv sport group wasn't impressive. the only perfesional testing they did was the speed test. they didn't time the track laps to see what quad carried faster times or anything else like that. bunch of yuppies!!!

Toadz400
02-27-2005, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by Sandgod4
Travis an ATK wrench was at the test.. Here's what he saw..

i was there at the test.
1st, all but 2 of there riders are trail boys "slow riders". i tried to explain the cold start procedure but they're all goof'n off, no one listened. they just wanted to ride. the whole fuel injection is over there heads.

they also noted on the speed test it was a moded vr. all that was moded was it that it had the cross country "blaze" shocks. and they said it was a $2000 upgrade? at that price you can buy the cross crountry model and get the wide axle, wave rotors and more...

also said its too agressive for trail riding, ain't that what we all want? MORE POWER!!! they are all young slow riders, it was to much for them!

and they said its has to be kept rev'ed for optimum power? i don't know about either. these things have way good low end torque clean through mid to the high rpm's.

the whole atv sport group wasn't impressive. the only perfesional testing they did was the speed test. they didn't time the track laps to see what quad carried faster times or anything else like that. bunch of yuppies!!!

Man that's horrible, bunch of idiots. Why do they pick such stupid people to do testing and evaluations?

I was confused when they said that they had to keep it revved like a 2-stroke because I've heard that ATK/C-Dale's have plenty of torque.

jesshamner
02-27-2005, 02:18 PM
They are torque monsters and they are very smooth unless you have a crazy map in there. The moto is supposed to have a little snap in it similar to the 2 stroke I think. But I just got my d&m kit for christmas and i haven't been able to play around with them much. I rode an ATK with the x440s bike map in it and whoa!:eek2::eek2: :eek2:

msmit150
03-01-2005, 05:50 AM
Is it just me or do you guys think that the magazines make the honda and yamaha 450's out to be the best thing and nothing else is any good, this being especially true of the YFZ? :mad:

I for one had an 05 YFZ for a few months and hated the shocks, they where crap and I could never use all the travel of them as they where far to hard for MX, I am 12 stone. I sold it cause I'm not buying a new bike to dump 3000 into new suspension! I bought a GAS GAS 450, it's not just as fast in a straight but I think it's a far better quad and I do faster lap times on it which is all that matters. :D

I like true race ready quads and would really like to see an ATK but there are none in the UK. They look real good from what I can see in the pictures. I hope they do well and companies like GAS GAS and ATK make the Japanese manufacturers bring out true race ready quads instead of half hearted attempts that need thousands spent on them.

bone705
03-01-2005, 11:04 AM
whats the price of the base atk and the xc atk?

jacobw
03-01-2005, 01:32 PM
8k for the Vr "base model" and 9,500 for the xc which has the wave rotors, rezzy shocks, beadlock wheels. steering damper tag bars, gripper seat, steel braided break lines, magura hyd clutch. and you can get optional elkas, nerf bars, handguards these are the best setup quads for your money gauranteed!:D

Quad101
03-01-2005, 02:38 PM
Mine starts up no problem:confused:

bone705
03-01-2005, 04:12 PM
are the optional elkas more money or the same?

Toadz400
03-01-2005, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by jesshamner
They are torque monsters and they are very smooth unless you have a crazy map in there. The moto is supposed to have a little snap in it similar to the 2 stroke I think. But I just got my d&m kit for christmas and i haven't been able to play around with them much. I rode an ATK with the x440s bike map in it and whoa!:eek2::eek2: :eek2:

How much is the D&M kit and what exactly is it?

jesshamner
03-01-2005, 08:54 PM
Elkas do cost more. D&m kit is $305.

Toadz400
03-01-2005, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by jesshamner
D&m kit is $305.

What is the D&M kit? Is it just so you can remap it yourself?

jesshamner
03-01-2005, 09:31 PM
You can remap it, monitor the system while its running, adjust the throttle settings, but the main use is diagnosing any problems you might run into with the efi system. It will show faults in the system. Its fun to try different maps though. The best way I can describe changing maps is like putting a new cdi box and carb on a jap bike. But instead of having to jet that new carb for your pipe, the system does it automatically. Sometimes you might have to lean or richen it up but its all done at the touch of a button. You don't have to pull the jets or needles.

Braff1
03-02-2005, 06:32 AM
In reference to the hard starting I am sure that when the test riders got on the ATK they did the usual "pump the throttle a couple times" to get it to start. This is a big no no with fuel injection, just like in your car or truck.

The mapping allows you to take one bike and be able to go from trail rider to duner to XC racer to MX racer. The ECU automatically adjust air temp and elevation changes, so no jetting required.

The D&M kit allows you to monitor your motor RPM, engine temp, any diagnotics warnings. You also use it to change mapping and to calibrate the throttle body.

Personally I think you have to take these "shoot outs" with a grain of salt. Since Yamaha is paying big bucks (you see all the yamaha adds) I don't think they are going to talk bad about the people paying their bills. If I based my opion on their shoot outs I would have never bought my Predator. It had the smoothest ride of any sport bike I have ridden, good power. I now own a Cannondale (traded the pred for it). I love it. Lots of power, easy to manage. Why did I trade the Pred? Just too wide for me to race XC. I hope that with Polaris now behind Smiley they will finally listen that you don't want ta 47.5" wide bike for XC.

TOfunk2drunk
05-22-2005, 08:02 PM
my buddy bought a 02 cannibal off ebay 2 sumas ago 3500...it had ohlins holeshots, moto mappin hmf pipe, that EFFIN THING FLEWW, it blew flames out the exhaust, itwas nassty, it still runs fine, but wen it was cold it was hard to start, the thing would run completely fine, he would start it as you described earlier, but on random days it woulndt start...so wed have to take the whole damn thing apart and change the plug and then it would fire right up. does that happend to you guys?

armoks
05-22-2005, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by TOfunk2drunk
my buddy bought a 02 cannibal off ebay 2 sumas ago 3500...it had ohlins holeshots, moto mappin hmf pipe, that EFFIN THING FLEWW, it blew flames out the exhaust, itwas nassty, it still runs fine, but wen it was cold it was hard to start, the thing would run completely fine, he would start it as you described earlier, but on random days it woulndt start...so wed have to take the whole damn thing apart and change the plug and then it would fire right up. does that happend to you guys?


put it on the D&M if you have one and reset the throttle cal. From what you describe sounds like hes a little rich. lower the flow by 100. How does the plug look?

400lighted
05-24-2005, 10:56 AM
What kind of professional magazine calls some thing ''dumb?'' That is in no way professional so that is why I stick with Dirtwheels. I am really confused why all these people have problems with Dales because they didn't do anything wrong....maybe the only thing they did was give all the other companies competition which pissed them off anyway?

wistech
05-25-2005, 09:27 PM
Bottom line is if the quad is hard to start
1 the driver is not starting it correctly
2 The quad is due a quick throttle Calibration and settings check
3 Battery is getting weak and not supplying enough voltage while cranking to fully presurize the fuel system and run the ignition and ecu.



If your fouling plugs on a dale/atk trying to start it. Make sure there you have the latest hex code in the ecm ,your battery is up to snuff,you run the quad for at least 2 minutes after a cold start to dry the plug so it doesnt foul for the next start.

If your quad starts and snubs off try upping the injector offset by .1 or .2 to richen it up a little. I fouled a plug the first day I owned my dale 2 1/2 years ago and never since.

Do not crank the engine for more than 5 seconds while starting.
The first few cranks will inject a massive fuel shot like an accelerator pump for the initial firing then it lean out . If it doesnt fire right away stop, wait a few seconds , tap the starter button(but not enough to crank it) to inject another starting dose,wait a few seconds, tap it again ,wait a few then try to crank.
Like most fuel injection systems these have a idle air control valve and using the throttle screws up the whole system so dont do it.

Toadz400
05-25-2005, 09:30 PM
Sounds like some crazy technology for a quad. The way it looks right now, I might be able to afford one of these if they ever catch the guy who stole my quads.

MR.BIG
05-27-2005, 08:51 PM
My suggestion buy a 450r put the choke on 2 kicks and you are ready to annihalated the competition!

rancid
05-28-2005, 09:05 AM
sure, weve heard that before. atleast a yfz will stand a chance.

Sandgod4
05-29-2005, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by MR.BIG
My suggestion buy a 450r put the choke on 2 kicks and you are ready to annihalated the competition!

Uh oh, now the smack talking is going to begin. Please lets not get into this. It's your story and you can tell it how you want it heard... Your Honda is better.. Now I'm glad we've cleared that up. I thought this could get ugly...

rancid
05-29-2005, 06:40 PM
everything got ugly as soon as honda was brought up.

happyboy
05-29-2005, 08:31 PM
Um...Whats a choke?:confused: And why the hell would you kick your quad?

armoks
05-29-2005, 08:57 PM
yea, were you mad at it?

MR.BIG
05-31-2005, 09:52 AM
You guys are so sensitive and can't take any goofing around. You asked why did I kick my quad well to be honest I needed something to pull the cannondale down the road since it wouldn't start again!

jacobw
05-31-2005, 10:01 AM
pull the cannondale man that is not right I had to pull a 400ex with my cannondale at the last race LOL. his chain came off! I hate when that happens!:D I foul plugs sometimes you get oil on them and the foul and when the battery gets low from sitting around and sometimes in a great while it fouls a plug but they make new spark plugs everyday!:D

MR.BIG
05-31-2005, 11:56 AM
I'm just messing around because you cannondale riders are so defensive!Ride what you like as long as you like it who cares what everybody else thinks!

jacobw
05-31-2005, 02:03 PM
Yeah quit being so serious cant nebody take a joke gosh!:)

QuadRacer041
06-08-2005, 01:12 PM
cant we all just get along, jesus
we all ride thats the important thing here.:D

PeeWee21
06-08-2005, 01:35 PM
I understand about being touchy but sometimes it just goes over the edge. I also think that some people need to watch what they say so they don't start a flamefest. Quadracer said it best, as long as we ride, thats what matters. He!! i'm just glad we have the choices in quads that have, we could be stuck back in the mid 90's when there was only the Banshee!!!

MR.BIG
06-10-2005, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by PeeWee21
I understand about being touchy but sometimes it just goes over the edge. I also think that some people need to watch what they say so they don't start a flamefest. Quadracer said it best, as long as we ride, thats what matters. He!! i'm just glad we have the choices in quads that have, we could be stuck back in the mid 90's when there was only the Banshee!!!

You are right but in all its mostly just having fun busting on one another but sometimes it does get out of hand.All I can say is in the next couple years its going to be interesting to see what comes out. I here the new z450 is suppose to come out soon so we will have to see what that thing brings to the table.

PeeWee21
06-29-2005, 12:38 PM
I also heard that Kawi is building their own 450 quad, it's supposedly going to be release 2 months after the bike!