JE 13:1 Piston Owners : BEWARE!!!

[benwa450r]

:( I HAD a JE 13:1 3-ring stock bore piston. One side that holds the rod pin broke off blowing motor. I thought it was the rod that let go at first, but after looking at pieces, I determined piston caused the failure. I was turning alot of RPM's sand racing but this should not have happened. Beware. Took out BOTH engine cases. crank is questionable but getting replaced anyway, rod, piston, and cylinder. Very expensive. I've heard a few YFZ's complaining about JE pistons breaking but has anyone else broke a JE piston on 450R?:( :( :(

[benwa450r]

Here's a pic.

[kazpr]

I know alot of people that have had them pistons since they came out. You are the first I have heard of it breaking. Please keep us updated. I would contact JE about it if I was you. Atleast to see what they say. Later and good luck!!

[benwa450r]

Kazpr, it has been all bad luck... except for the piston not hitting the head. I will contact JE about it. There was nothing frozen up, no oiling problems, and no heat seizure. You can see the breakage better on the piece that broke off. Reliability was not a thought before this... it's a Honda.... but it wasn't a Honda part that broke.

[BOONE450R]

Looks to me like the Piston pin clip might have been your problem.
Allowing to pin to side out toward the damaged side and the connecting rod would have helped out with the rest.

Just me .02cents

[29FTEX]

Was this a 2 or 3 ring piston?

I've heard of 2 JEs breaking at the top of the piston by the 1st ring, but not by the wrist pin.

[DirtDevilBT]

Originally posted by BOONE450R
Looks to me like the Piston pin clip might have been your problem.
Allowing to pin to side out toward the damaged side and the connecting rod would have helped out with the rest.

Just me .02cents

Sounds good, putting more load on the one side. It's not like pistons with skirt all the way around, the wristpin goes from side to side on those. I wonder if this one moved towards the side that's not broken. Putting a load on the other side right on the inside of the bearing so much so it broke. If the cylinder isn't totally demolished I wonder if there are pin marks up and down the cylinder from it coming in contact with the edges. I haven't had a problem with mine in my warrior. I don't turn those rpms tho :D . My cousin hasn't had a problem with their pistons in the street engines he builds either. Every piston manufacturer is going to have few blemishes from time to time. Didn't Wiseco have a black mark there for a while. I'm not making an excuse for what happened to you cause that just plain sucks. It's strange where it broke though. No burns on the bearings either. :confused:

[benwa450r]

I'm attatching another pic of all of the pieces. Piston is 3-ring and the side that is not broken still has clip in it. Cylinder is not marked up where pin would have rubbed either side. The rod is not frozen on crank either. Look at broken piece edges where it broke. Looks like metal just gave way. No marks or anything on pin area. Rod was where it is on pin when I got it out of bottom end. Piston never hit head and was at the bottom of the cylinder when I pulled head off. Top ring is jammed in groove. I think piston was jummed sideways in cylinder when one side broke. What do you think?

[BOONE450R]

Yep it had to have been the clip, not on the side that is intact but the broken side. Thats why its off center on the connecting rod end. If you can try to piece the connecting rod end to the rod and see if the piston rod did in fact move that way. It had to because the clip is still in the other side. That would have also tweaked the piston in the cylinder.

[mikes450r]

so how far should the clip be away from the nitch..I just did mine and its about a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch away from the nitch...once i got it in i couldnt move..do you think thats far enough away..

mike

[benwa450r]

The rod is off center due to it was at the bottom of the crank getting a good beating from the crank. There is about 1/2" of I-beam still on crank end of the rod. The middle section of the rod is gone. Came out of the cases. Rod does move on pin so it could have got pushed there from piston, rod, or crank. There were no marks on cylinder where broken side clip or pin pushed against cylinder. Any more guesses as t what broke?

[rowlrag]

If the piston was in the bottom of the cylinder and there is no valve damage, I would have to lean toward rod bending pulling out the bottom of the piston and cocking it sideways, then the middle section of rod broke off when it went around the crank and out the case. Thats why the piston was still in the bottom of the bore cause there was no rod to push it back up. Just another scenario.:confused:

[Toadz400]

Ouch...that reminds me of what happened to my Banshee when the left cylinder seized up. Definately burned a huge hole in my pocket...$1000 rebuild right there, no labor charges though, so that saved me quite a few $$.

[kazpr]

Heya man that almost makes me sick to
my stomach thinking it could be me also!!

How long was the piston in the bike before this happened?
How was the bike running before this? Thanks alot Scott

[Icrashed]

I would have to agree with boon450r.Looks like you lost the clip. Have you found the clip in the bottom of the case?The reason the conn. rod broke was from the side load.

[benwa450r]

Scott, the piston was in the bike for 5 to 6 months. I have been running 13:1 for awhile. I found the clip in 2 pieces in the bottom end. Figured it came out when piece broke off. Running C12 so fuel should have been good. Looked at cylinder walls again. No scars or scrapes on either side where rod pin or clips would have rubbed. Toadz400, doing all f the work myself also. Willl know engine inside and out when this is done. Hey Icrashed, I figured rod broke also from side load... when piece broke off. Don't mean to scare anyone with this problem. May have just been a fluke.

[BANDIT TRX450]

Call Jeff @ sparks racing. I purchased a JE 13.5 and he called me and told me that JE was sending out the wrong clips so for me not to install it till he sent me the right clip.

[BOONE450R]

:huh :eek: :eek2: :huh

[Jaydawggy]

I did not receive new clips with my 13/1 JE. I simply used the stock clips to hold the pin in. Does that sound like a prob? The JE pin still has to use the same diameter as the stocker to fit the rod correctly so I assume that the stock clips should work fine. What say ya all?

Jas

[benwa450r]

Jaydawggy, I would use the clips that came with JE piston. If you did not get clips, I would get correct clips from JE. Might cost you some new gaskets but may be worth it in the long run. Groove machined in piston for clip may be a different size or thickness. You are NOT supposed to reuse clips anyway because bending them to take them out weakens clip.
I did not get piston from Sparks. They did not have one available when I wanted one. I ordered it from White Brothers. The clips that came with the piston seemed to fit correctly and were tight in groove. I don't think the clip came out anyway.. piston just broke.:ermm:

[benwa450r]

Here is pic of JE broken piston and stock piston. Do you think JE piston is bad design? Not much aluminum around broken part. E-mailed JE twice and have gotten no response on this. What do you think?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by benwa450r
Here is pic of JE broken piston and stock piston. Do you think JE piston is bad design? Not much aluminum around broken part. E-mailed JE twice and have gotten no response on this. What do you think?

i think it's all the hp that setup was generating!!!

:macho

i don't see any big differences between the two pistons. i think it was a fluke!

I'm thinking the stock rod had issue with that hp and let go first, then the piston cracked. I know that a stock 400ex rod lets go about the same hp you are generating now (~52).

sorry this happened tho!

oh, thanks for posting info!


chad

[benwa450r]

Chad502ex, I wish it was making 52HP but I don't think it was that much. Heard from JE and they want me to ship parts in so they can check it out. They want piston, piston pin, rod, and spark plug. I guess they think it might be an oiling problem or overheating. Not to both.

Chad502ex, how's the 530R? I can bet that puppy pulls like crazy. I know you split cases to stroke crank, but replacing both cases is more of a challenge. There's alot of bearings and seals to replace. I probably could have stroked my crank and added falicon rod for what the parts cost me just to get it back together.

I'll post again when I hear from JE about what they think the cause of failure was. I can bet they will not say it was their piston.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by benwa450r
Chad502ex, I wish it was making 52HP but I don't think it was that much. Heard from JE and they want me to ship parts in so they can check it out. They want piston, piston pin, rod, and spark plug. I guess they think it might be an oiling problem or overheating. Not to both.

that's kewl that JE is investigating. That's a sign of good customer service and R&D too.


Chad502ex, how's the 530R? I can bet that puppy pulls like crazy. I know you split cases to stroke crank, but replacing both cases is more of a challenge. There's alot of bearings and seals to replace. I probably could have stroked my crank and added falicon rod for what the parts cost me just to get it back together.

the 530 seems to be complete. i'm looking forward to actually riding in the dirt and roosting. up to this point the only run time has been on street using slicks or either on the dyno tuning. almost finished. new pipe days away, new ignition in few weeks, and new carb in month or so. low to mid 60's by summer. my arms seems to drag the floor with the hit this monster develops.


I'll post again when I hear from JE about what they think the cause of failure was. I can bet they will not say it was their piston.

Thanks man for posting the info. it's kewl ppl like you that keep the information flowing..;)

[benwa450r]

I got a response from JE about broken piston. They analized all of the parts and said either head gasket was leaking causing pre-detonation or fuel mixture was too lean on top end. They say it was the rod that failed and not the piston. I'm glad I'll have a Falicon rod when it goes back up.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by chad502ex
I'm thinking the stock rod had issue with that hp and let go first, then the piston cracked

isn't that what i predicted? ;)

[benwa450r]

Chad502ex, that is what you predicted. I guess the factory rod is the weak link in high horsepower engines. I won't make the same mistake twice. I just hope Falicon makes some more rods soon!:p

PPl say Falicon is expensive.... try buying both cases, crank, rod, piston, and cylinder. Having a Falicon rod put on is alot cheaper!!!

I think I'll go back with JE 13.8:1 piston too.

[culookn]

so in the end would you recommend running the stock crank with the 13:1 or the 13:8:1? b/c im in the middle of my engine build and i was gonna go with the 13:1.

[benwa450r]

culookn, I ran 13:1 for over 6 months before having problems. I know alot of people running 13:1 with no problems. I am going with 13.8:1 2-ring because in theory, it should give a little more power due to lighter and less drag in cylinder with only 2 rings. Also, 13.8:1 should be lighter and put less stress on factory rod. I am changing rod to Falicon because I have cases split already.......and don't ever want to have the problems I have now. Hope this helps with decision.

[911]

from looking at the pics i'm gona say it was the clip came out. the reasoning behind this is that if one side of the piston broke, the force left on the other side would have snaped that side also. in that same theory as the pin walked out it held up till it came out of one side, then the leverage of only pulling on 1 side broke the piston and snaped the rod:( as far as scoring the cyl. see if the pin can fit out of 1 side only without going outside of the piston dia. any way THAT SUCKS big time hope u get it fixed soon and have good luck w/ it:)