Ken Robey, what happen at Texas

[GE4x4]

How did your King Quad do? I raced the KQ at Powerline Park last year, and just wondering how you feel about the KQ.

[MEL]

from the results something must have happened. its not to often hes listed in last.

[Ken Robey]

Well, here is the recap. Mod. and stock started on the line together, where my start was horrible because of the fuel injection system of the KQ. I was probably in about 10th place when we hit the woods. Started making my way through the woods and had some difficulty in tight spots because I widened it out a little. Nothing I can't get used too though. By the end of the first lap I was knocking on Penland's door. when I came by my pit about 200 yds. passed the finish, I was drafting off of him. We hit three quick turns and I boxed him out on a corner and got around him. The quad had plenty of top end to pull away from him. I entered the woods and couldn't even see him behind me before long. Just up ahead through the trees and rocks I caught a glimpse of 1st place. at one point I was doing 68MPH acrossed one of the flats to catch him. I went down in the woods and came down into a small creek bed, popped it into 4-wheel for the muddy hill in front of me and the right tire, turned outward. The inner tie rod on the steering broke completely in half, I couldn't believe it. I knew they were weak, but c'mon. I didn't even clip a tree or anything during the race. Penland had a big ole smile though we he came by about 45 secs later.
The KQ performed excellent though, I really adapted to it pretty well. The top end of it runs really strong. Trying to figure out what I am going to do though. Have to use stock parts and I am not to comfortable with putting it back together with it doing that in the first 16 miles of the race. Might have to switch to mod. if they won't let use other parts though. If any ideas, please let me know. This is the only weak part on the quad. Ken

[GE4x4]

Why can't you use aftermarket tie rods. I don't remember seeing anything about that. It just says we can't add anything to improve it performance.

[Ken Robey]

I know what you mean, right now I am arguing the rules with GNCC and also have Doug Morris, the president of the ATVA in it also. They are telling me that I have to run Suzuki stock parts on the tie rods. will let you know what I find out, but if I were you, I wouldn't beat the ones you have too hard. This tie rod broke in half and the quad has only 117 miles on it. Yes, I do put it too the extremes, but my prairie was bought in June of 2003, and it still has the original tie rods and ends to this day. will let you know what I find out.

[GE4x4]

Well GNCC should start looking at other stock quads. They should list whats aloud and what is not. The way they have it written up leaves to much gray area. So people will push as much as they can get away with and if no one checks they push more. I know how fast stock quads are, and there are some that are just way faster, yet nobody says anything. Clutch kits, cdi moduls and rev boxes are on some stock quads, is that right. Yet they worry about tie rods, gimmie a break.

[GE4x4]

Also, people in the stock class can put $1000 tire balls in and you can't change a $50 tie rod.:ermm:

[Ken Robey]

Man, you hit it on the head, I am dealin with it all right now. will keep you briefed on the outcome. It isn't looking good though

[oldfourstroke]

Just wanted to say GOOD LUCK! I feel that a stock quad is a quad you buy from the dealer. There is a lot of people out there running parts that give them an advantage. You mite try looking at the safety side of your argument, if a part is not strong enough it could break and hurt you and other riders. SAFETY is always the first thing on everyones mind:D They are worried about sound, they should be worried about weak stock parts. just my $.02
Jason

[Admin]

Ken, I am in your court on this issue. I contacted Racer Production today and explained why a Tie-rod is no different than an aftermarket axle. The stock tie-rods are extremely week on the Suzuki machines and an aftermarket replacement is not a performance enhancment.

The stock class is suppose to allow racers to compete without spending loads of money on their machine and keep it as close to stock as possible. A Tie-rod is not an expensive item, so why shouldn't it be allowed to be changed as long as it is the same length as stock? It doesn't add any performance and only durability.

The are going to meet on the issue today if all goes well, and I felt positive about the conversation that I had with them for you Ken.

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by Admin
The stock class is suppose to allow racers to compete without spending loads of money on their machine and keep it as close to stock as possible. A Tie-rod is not an expensive item, so why shouldn't it be allowed to be changed as long as it is the same length as stock? It doesn't add any performance and only durability.

.

If this is true, then why are tire balls aloud. There's no way you can say that it doesn't give a rider a advantage.

[Ken Robey]

Thanks, i really appreciate you going to bat for me. I have been trying to tell them this for a month before the Texas Race, but I couldn't even get a reply on it from them. Now that I traveled 2400 miles and chalked up a loss on the part that I told them was going to fail, it just burns me thinking of all the money I lost this past weekend. Thanks for all the help, lets keep our fingers crossed.

[Ken Robey]

Just wondering if we have heard anything yet on my tie rod situation.

[Admin]

Originally posted by Ken Robey
Just wondering if we have heard anything yet on my tie rod situation.

They all were in Indiana this weekend busy promoting the series, so I didn't ask them about it, but I will call them later this week.

[Ken Robey]

If this is Harlen, or who ever, Thanks alot.

[Dan229]

Ken,

I'm just curious, if they don't let you run after market tie rods are you going to move up to the mod class?

[Ken Robey]

not sure what is going to happen yet, but that is definately not the way I want to go.

[Admin]

The word is in from Racer Productions :D

"Okay Harlen, we ironed it all out, with some input from some people at the
Indy tradeshow. Here it is: tie-rods will remain legal for 2005. A-arms
cannot be changed. Handlebar changes and Tire Balls remain legal.

That's the short of it. Like you said, we can't make rule changes mid year.

As always, if someone who races in the class thinks these are bad rules, let
us know. We're just trying to be fair. But, even if it's a good suggestion,
rule changes will probably have to wait until 2006.

-jason
"

[xtremedad]

I can't beleive their decision.:mad: If you are the promoter or the governing body, You can change what-ever the heck you want. I understand trying to be consistant. But we're not talking about an engine mod here.
If I were you Ken, I would let the issue settle for a bit. Then change the darn things. I don't think all the Einsteins will be able to identify if they're after market or not any how. JMHO

Later......:cool:

[GE4x4]

I don't remember tire balls as a rule. People just use them and GNCC is letting them use them. Also only one race is done, so how is this being the middle of the season. They did it last year with the oversize gas tanks. Maybe it's because those who are useing tire balls in stock class have a lot of pull in this discision. Politics at it's best, the small guy getting stomped while the rich keep getting what they want.:mad:

[Karizz]

Can you please clarify?:huh Aftermarket tierods are legal or illegal for the stock class??

Thanks in advance!!



Originally posted by Admin
The word is in from Racer Productions :D

"Okay Harlen, we ironed it all out, with some input from some people at the
Indy tradeshow. Here it is: tie-rods will remain legal for 2005. A-arms
cannot be changed. Handlebar changes and Tire Balls remain legal.

That's the short of it. Like you said, we can't make rule changes mid year.

As always, if someone who races in the class thinks these are bad rules, let
us know. We're just trying to be fair. But, even if it's a good suggestion,
rule changes will probably have to wait until 2006.

-jason
" :huh

[Admin]

Originally posted by xtremedad
I can't beleive their decision.:mad: If you are the promoter or the governing body, You can change what-ever the heck you want. I understand trying to be consistant. But we're not talking about an engine mod here.
If I were you Ken, I would let the issue settle for a bit. Then change the darn things. I don't think all the Einsteins will be able to identify if they're after market or not any how. JMHO

Later......:cool:

I think you misunderstood the decision. They are going to ALLOW AFTERMARKET TIE-RODS as a OEM replacement part for 2005, but the rule may change for 2006.

[Admin]

Originally posted by Karizz
Can you please clarify?:huh Aftermarket tierods are legal or illegal for the stock class??

Thanks in advance!!


:huh

I don't understand the confusion:confused:

The rules will remain unchanged and riders in the STOCK CLASS can CHANGE TIE-RODS, INSTALL TIREBALLS, AND USE AFTERMARKET HANDLE BARS INCLUDING FASST CO FLEXX BARS.

The rules will be reviewed again at the end of the season, and these items may not be legal for 2006 if they decide to make a rule change before the start of the season.

[Admin]

Originally posted by GE4x4
I don't remember tire balls as a rule. People just use them and GNCC is letting them use them. Also only one race is done, so how is this being the middle of the season. They did it last year with the oversize gas tanks. Maybe it's because those who are useing tire balls in stock class have a lot of pull in this discision. Politics at it's best, the small guy getting stomped while the rich keep getting what they want.:mad:

The tank rule change last season after the series already started was a poor decision by Racer Production, and they didn't want a repeat the same mistake this year.

As far as politics, give me a break. If you are trying to point a finger toward me or any other Stock Class rider with Tireballs try again.

I don't have time to argue the whole tireball issue, but in the end after full season it is more expensive for a rider to run without tireballs than with tireballs. Anybody that travels to atleast 9 races and competes in the series for points is far from Poor, so don't give me the Rich vs Poor.

How about a guy running a 2001 400EX in the stock class against the TRX450R or YFZ450? Is the 450 riders bad guys because they bought new machines that are more competitive?

The whole money issue is totally overblown because National racing takes money regardless of which class you run. If you think that you can't afford to race Nationals, race locally because at the end of the race it really comes down to the rider and not the goodies installed on the machine the majority of the time.

I raced a stock LTZ400 in the WORCS race in Arizona a few weeks ago that I borrowed right before the race to compete in the A Class against fully worked 20K Plus machines with big bore 450Rs and full axis shocks and roll a-arms along with many 250R and YFZ machines. I started almost dead last because of stock engine and exhaust and I still was able to pass everyone and take the win without ever practicing the track,and I didn't have Tireballs.

Again, the rider makes the biggest difference, and if you can't compete, stop whining and start training, or stay home.

[xtremedad]

Cool, I misunderstood the conclusion of their reply. I do agree on the skill thing:macho Or a good set of bags(I mean tire BALLS).:D

[GE4x4]

If it is rider and not the goodies on the quad, then why use them? The object of stock class is to keep them as close to stock as possible without any performance advantage. If you think tire balls don't give you advantage over those without them, you are in another world. Tell Yokely they don't give a advantage. Without his tireballs he would of pitted and most likely lost his podium. But for 2 laps on a partial flat the tire balls kept it high enough where he could still finish without pitting. Also there any many who race the whole season who barly scrape up enough money to have a quad and make it to 9 or more races. If money wasn't a issue, then everyone would have them, not just a few. I'm sure if you asked everyone in stock class if they would like tire balls they would all say yes, yet most would say they would if they could afford them. I bring 2 spares with me. one front and one rear about $400 worth. Most of that cost is the rim. A new tire is about $70 wether it has tire balls or not. If you get a gash in your tire with tire balls, are you going to race that tire again at the next race? So either way a new tire is needed. So the cost of spare's should be still close to equal with or with-out tire balls.

[Admin]

Originally posted by GE4x4
If it is rider and not the goodies on the quad, then why use them? The object of stock class is to keep them as close to stock as possible without any performance advantage. If you think tire balls don't give you advantage over those without them, you are in another world. Tell Yokely they don't give a advantage. Without his tireballs he would of pitted and most likely lost his podium. But for 2 laps on a partial flat the tire balls kept it high enough where he could still finish without pitting. Also there any many who race the whole season who barly scrape up enough money to have a quad and make it to 9 or more races. If money wasn't a issue, then everyone would have them, not just a few. I'm sure if you asked everyone in stock class if they would like tire balls they would all say yes, yet most would say they would if they could afford them. I bring 2 spares with me. one front and one rear about $400 worth. Most of that cost is the rim. A new tire is about $70 wether it has tire balls or not. If you get a gash in your tire with tire balls, are you going to race that tire again at the next race? So either way a new tire is needed. So the cost of spare's should be still close to equal with or with-out tire balls.

I will not go on and on with this discussion, but I will atleast give a quick response to your questions.

If it is rider and not the goodies on the quad, then why use them?
I use what ever the rules allow me to use, and ofcourse each little thing will improve the lap times or help prevent the risk of a DNF, but the rider plays a bigger part in the results of the race. Borich raced a bone stock Suzuki in the District 6 A Class and passed everyone and one almost every race in the machine two years ago. My machine was fully modified and I couldn't keep up with him.

If you get a gash in your tire with tire balls, are you going to race that tire again at the next race?

YES, I run the tires with the holes in them, so I don't have to purchase new tires, which is part of the cost savings. Both my rear tires have holes in them, and I will most likely have them on at Florida unless I switch to a different style rear tire for the conditions.

[GE4x4]

I agree with you, that if the rules say you can use them and you have the means, then use them. Your not breaking the rules. But when the rules say no performance gains and yet they think tires balls is not a performance gain, that's what get's me puzzled. Even Tire Balls web site promotes that with tire balls it gives a huge advantage then with those who don't. I'll see you in Florida.:)

[Admin]

Originally posted by GE4x4
I agree with you, that if the rules say you can use them and you have the means, then use them. Your not breaking the rules. But when the rules say no performance gains and yet they think tires balls is not a performance gain, that's what get's me puzzled. Even Tire Balls web site promotes that with tire balls it gives a huge advantage then with those who don't. I'll see you in Florida.:)

No hard feelings and see you in less than two weeks.

[MEL]

straight from gnccs web site


GNCC NEWS
GNCC ATV Four-Stroke Stock Class: Playing by the Rules
The ATV four-stroke stock class has become one of the premier classes in our series - and it's also one of the most competitive.

So to make sure the heated competition for wins doesn't override the rules (which is critical in this class), here are some clarifications:

Aftermarket tie-rods are legal in the class for 2005

Aftermarket A-arms are not legal in the class for 2005

Tire Balls are legal in the class for 2005

Flex Barr handlebar systems are legal in the class for 2005

As always, we're willing to take feedback on our rule system, and we're clarifying these rules based on the feedback we have gotten from the racers. We do our best to avoid making rule changes mid-season, so any changes to this class structure will have to be made for the 2006 GNCC season.

In addition, beginning at our next race in Florida, we will take the top-three finishers in the Four-Stroke Stock Class and inspect their ATVs immediately after the race. We will inspect four components on the top three machines to make sure they're in compliance with our rule structure. We will not announce the four components we will check until we are checking them. So make sure you're in compliance with our rule structure (posted below).

The Four-Stroke Stock class is all about having a level playing field - please help us keep it that way so the racing will remain fair for everyone.

Thanks,

-GNCC Racing

GNCC Stock ATV Rule Structure
Stock (ATV) - May change front shocks, tires, wheels, throttle assembly, axle, handlebars, grips, skid plates, plastics and seat covers, including those that add traction, but may not change seat height. May add bead locks, nerf bars, foot peg extensions, and open or closed end, metal or plastic hand guards. May not add steering stabilizers or air filter sleeves. May not add front shock reservoirs, or modify or remove front shock reservoirs from machines that come equipped with them. Riders may change front shocks on ATVs that do not come with rebuildable stock front shocks, but they may not replace the front shocks on ATVs that do come with rebuildable units stock (like the YFZ450). Only machines that come equipped with front reservoirs stock may run them. All motor components and rear suspension must remain stock. Aftermarket replacement parts may be used so long as they do not improve motor performance, add travel to the suspension, or have a reservoir. Example: must have stock pipe, silencer, carburetor, air box, air cleaner, rear shocks, etc....



not sure if their going to do the same in the ute stock, but something to think about.

[465Stroker]

I understand that you can use aftermarket Tie-rods but it said nothing about aftermarket Tie-rod ends - Corrrect? So aftermarket tie-rod ends are illegal?

[Admin]

Originally posted by 465Stroker
I understand that you can use aftermarket Tie-rods but it said nothing about aftermarket Tie-rod ends - Corrrect? So aftermarket tie-rod ends are illegal?

lol, what about aftermarket nuts and cotter pins?

Rick, If it isn't mentioned as illegal, then I think a person could safely use aftermarket tie-rod ends. This discussion could go on and on. I personally only have ever used Factory Tie-rod ends, so I could care less even though I snapped one off at Texas and dismounted at around 30 mph cracking open my brand new helmet from the impact and ripping the arm piece off my chest protector. Needless to say, I can still feel and see the bruises.

[465Stroker]

Originally posted by Admin
lol, what about aftermarket nuts and cotter pins?

Rick, If it isn't mentioned as illegal, then I think a person could safely use aftermarket tie-rod ends. This discussion could go on and on. I personally only have ever used Factory Tie-rod ends, so I could care less even though I snapped one off at Texas and dismounted at around 30 mph cracking open my brand new helmet from the impact and ripping the arm piece off my chest protector. Needless to say, I can still feel and see the bruises.

Just askin Harlen......:p

[Admin]

Originally posted by 465Stroker
Just askin Harlen......:p

You are such an instigator :D

[465Stroker]

If I called up Houser Racing and asked for aftermarket tie-rods - would they send tie-rods or a complete tie-rod kit with ends on them? See what I am gettin at? I think it should be clarified..:rolleyes:

[Admin]

Originally posted by 465Stroker
If I called up Houser Racing and asked for aftermarket tie-rods - would they send tie-rods or a complete tie-rod kit with ends on them? See what I am gettin at? I think it should be clarified..:rolleyes:

Geee... Rick, don't take me wrong, I was just messing with you and figured you were up to your normal fun.

I honestly think aftermarket tie-rod ends are legal because they are stated as being illegal in the rules.

[Dan229]

I’m glad RP clarified all that and now Ken can get him some tie rods that won’t potentially launch him out into the trees. I’m looking forward to racing against you in FL Ken! I hope that I do well enough in FL for them to impound my junk…I can see the puzzled expressions now as they look my sad plastic over and say “I wonder how many more rivets he can get onto this thing to hold the fenders together”. LOL

[Ken Robey]

Sorry I have been out of town with my son at a hockey tournament and I am under the weather also. So here it goes, Thanks to everyone who backed me up in my huge undertaking. Everyone told me that I was nuts and that there was now way that they were going to give supplemental rules for me to race stock class. They all agreed with me about the safety issue after they saw my tie rod end split in half, though. I really appreciate all of the support and talking with all of you. It has actually been fun, even though I just got home from the Doc's and he said my blood pressure was elevated a little. Needless to say, I wasn't sure what I was going to do. I race purely on the rule book, I don't cut corners and add expensive parts to win. In fact, I won a certificate for tire balls at a 20% discount and I gave it to a good friend because I couldn't afford the additional cost of getting them. Hell, I can barely afford to get to the races. I hope everyone in my class is like me , but I know in any sport there are cheaters, and beleive me, your time will come. when I get my plaque, I can honestly hold my head up and look at those I raced in the face, unlike some people I have met through my years of racing. I made some phone calls today and tie rods are on there way from Houser and HD tie rod ends will be here Monday. Lets get ready to ROCK, BOYZZZZZZZZZ. Come up and Intro yourselves to me so I can thank you personally. Can't wait to get to Fl. See you all there and thanks for you support

[300exOH]

Ken- Glad to hear you got this issue taken care of. Time to take 1st place and show Penland how it's done!:eek2: :D

Good luck.
Scott