PulseCharger gets tested... Dyno included

[Kennethyfz450]

just got back from southern california Michigan is miserable this time of year

we got a dealership to provide a new '05 YFZ for us to use as a test bed. all they asked is that they return the unit with the pulse charger and correct jetting still on the yfz.

i had the pleasure of meeting Charlie Tissen, the power sports product engineer for K&N. Charlie is also the person who has performed all the testing for the magazine shootouts of the yfz pipes so far. charlie is a very animated character who has also worked for Saleen Performance (think mustang) and for MSR \ malcom smith racing before coming to K&N 5 years ago. Charlie is in his mid 50s' and still actively motocross and desert races with either a cr500for moto and a modded xr600 for desert. his accent sounded australian to me but he is a native of south africa.

charlie was friendly, knowledgeable and a super help with us meeting with the morning (atv rider) and afternoon (dirt wheels) magazines for the dyno runs.

the magazines had told us the rules of engagement meant us not bringing any pipes out for comparison. we were just to bring our product and test on a stock bike. they said comparisons were only to be done by them in shoot outs.

the brand new yfz was given a "dyno break-in" using dyno tires and all runs in top gear. the initial runs were around 35 hp and when the gains finally stabilized the yfz consistantly pulled at 38hp wiyh just under 25 ft lbs of torque

when we began the runs with the pulse charger, charlie was quick to point out to atv rider that the power came on stronger and sooner than any of the pipes he had previously tested in the shootouts. the morning session was very productive and friendly!

when doing the afternoon runs for dirt wheels magazine , charlie was pointing out the same advantages to them when they walked out to the parking lot and returned with the pipe that won the shootouts (the Dr. D) and announced , "we are running this one next" i was taken back a bit and a little nervous since i don't have any experience with the Dr. D pipe, but thought; "ok lets do it!"

i will have to get a full list of the runs to share with atv rider mag since they did not bring a pipe for comparison. also , i need to get a copy of them all for myself since the afternoon session ran late and i just took copies of whatever dirt wheels didn't take with them.

the runs you see here are with the open\full race version of the Dr. D pipe. the quiet version was also tested and used the same conical cheese grater insert as was recently tested on the hmf pipes. i will get a copy of those runs soon but they did the same as did the hmf with the insert installed: slightly more top end and dramatically reduced bottom end power. the open version of the Dr. D was obnoxiously loud to the pointof pain in the dyno room.

the K&N software uses different scales for the hp and tq on the same graph. kind of confusing and i don't really like it that way.

the red graph is the Dr. D race pipe
the green graph is the stealth charger
the blue graph is the pulse charger (listed as stealth\open)

dr. d averages .... hp= 34.6 tq=25.7
Pulse charger.......hp=37.2 tq=27.4
Stealth Charger....hp=34.2 tq=26.0

Charlie pointed out that the VCP pipes were the winners by showing that they had as much as 15% power advantage at points below the peak readings and stated that "before you have a peak HP , you have to GET to it through all the other RPM on the way up". the VCP pipes made too much , too early, for even the unanimous winner of both shootouts before this one to make up the difference by having a 3% peak advantage to have any chance of catching up to. and it will happen again nd again out of every corner too!!

there will be video footage of this on the website. that charlie was a great help.

it was then pointed out about the price difference in the 2 pipes and his answer was

"if it's not what i want , it's not what i want when it costs less...... we are talking purely about performance advantage here and ther is no question that the pulse charger pipes have a clear advantage. if i had a yfz, the pulse charger is what i'd put on it, and i have tested ALL the pipes for it so far"

i'll tell you, this whole experience was surreal, but definately worth my new ulcer

[Kennethyfz450]

http://www.trx450r.org/forum/uploads/post-327-1108352936.jpg

[29FTEX]

OK.
Are you going to add something in there that says this wasn't your write up?

Give credit to John for that valuable info.

[chad502ex]

this is a great coverup

Originally posted by chad502ex
this is a great coverup

what do you mean by that? do you not think the pipe is any good? they said the pulsecharger has more power than a slip on...wow

[panteramatt]

On the dyno sheet, it shows the dr.d having the most hp:confused:

[MIKE400EX]

Never ridden w/either pipe but....peak horsepower by numbers rarely wins races or even "feels" best by the pants dyno. Highest average over the RPM span used will get you the best results. Rider excluded. But wth do I know?

[muddy400EX]

dont matter how much power they make, it isnt gonna change the fact that they are the worst looking pipe ever made

[nofear15]

i agree with Mike400ex

[cals400ex]

i am not trying to take sides here because i have never tried the pulsecharger but i have read about it by owners. i talked to an owner that ran a full lrd and the pulse charger on his 450r. he said no question asked the pulsecharger performed better. he said the only reason to get the lrd is if you wanted more power at low rpms. if you are in racing conditions or anywhere in the high rpm power band, the PC clearly makes more. this is just what i read. i would probably get a PC if i had to do it all over again.

[sampleez]

the PC is like $600 right...... for that much, you could get the Dr.d(i got mine for $220), Crower's intake cam($200), and an intake, and have a lot more power.
i guess my point is that i don't think the PC is worth spending $350 more over the Dr.d.

just my .02 tho

[29FTEX]

You can get a Pulse Charger for as little as $550 at some dealers.

[86atc250r]

You think it's "the worst looking pipe ever made"?

I thought it looked pretty cool on my quad, myself... I like it even better now than in this pic - after I took the pic I changed to the alternate mounting that gives it more rake. Lots of compliments so far from people who've seen it in person.

[Hammer trx450r]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
You think it's "the worst looking pipe ever made"?

I thought it looked pretty cool on my quad, myself... I like it even better now than in this pic - after I took the pic I changed to the alternate mounting that gives it more rake. Lots of compliments so far from people who've seen it in person.

Your like me with the full turf tamers. I cant seem to get them off my quad, I keep going back to them.

[XANDADA]

I think it looks fine. The dyno graphs they origionally posted which now seem to have been removed made it's performance look lower than pipes half the price. Did I read the graphs wrong? The hp and tq curves were at best similar to most of the other pipes tested - certainly better than none of them. Of course, now the owner has produced new graphs showing very positive results but what happened to the originals that were done independantly? I don't even own a 4 stroke so I don't even really care what the outcome is for this pipe, but as a general atv consumer I don't like false claims regardless of the product
:ermm:

[sampleez]

i think they would look alot better if they weren't flat black like the stocker(on the yfz at least). even if you can get it for 550, you can still get the dr.d and the crower cam for less than just the PC, and have a lot more power

[86atc250r]

As you may have read & I don't want to get that started up again ------ was a fairly controversial "shootout".

The problems I had with it as an objective and complete test were:

9 pipes were tested in only 2.5 hours

Only one of the pipes (Sparks) was run with an AFR meter in place.

At first, the pipes were ranked only by peak numbers with no explanation of why peak isn't necessarily the number you really care about.

Heck, easily the worst performing pipe in the test was ranked on top (HMF with quiet core) - most of the general public that knows little about how to read dyno runs immediately thinks that since it produced the best peak, it's the best pipe - but when you look at the overall picture, it's actually the worst.

Personally - when I had my quad on the dyno (with an HMF pipe), I spent probably 4 hours tuning one setup, one pipe.

One thing I noted when doing all this tuning on my own quad was how much the main affected power on the dyno, yet they were small enough changes you couldn't typically "feel" it when riding the quad - it is critical to get jetting correct if you are going to get accurate results of the performance of each pipe & the numbers can be skewed significantly by incorrect jetting which is especially important on a PC because it is so different from the others.

To me, that was a rushed test that provided results that only concluded one thing --- similar pipes with the same jetting produce roughly the same dyno numbers on the same machine. We already pretty much knew that, didn't we?

I don't want to pump one pipe over another and I don't want to step on any toes - but my below are my thoughts on the PC exhaust:

I have an HMF Full system as well as a PC -- currently I can't comment on the difference in performance on my machine because I haven't ridden the PC yet (I'm still in the middle of prepping it for the upcoming season). However, I can say that my HMF produced pretty good numbers on the dyno and ran well. The PC is certainly significantly more quiet and has a little lower pitch than the HMF.

I have personally met the creator of the PC and seen him operate his dyno. He also has given several people on these messageboards FREE dyno time for whatever setups they wanted to test. He's an upstanding guy who dispises poor dyno practices. In fact, he stresses over how to present the dyno runs of his pipe because other pipe builders use such inflated numbers (i.e. you're not going to get 45 hp from ANYONE's pipe alone) -- yet, he has to compete with these guys.

I have also personally seen some bikes with the PC run on the dyno and they all ran better than they should have for the mods they have - for instance he has a 416EX with a stock head, an HRC cam, 11:1 piston, PC pipe, and a 450R carb that produces over 40hp -- talk about a budget buildup....

I have also personally seen that the pipe does exactly what he claims in that it scavenges and produces a better vacuum signal at the carb, which immediately makes the quad go rich. For instance, one quad was jetted perfectly with another pipe - the only change that was made was to slip a PC onto the same header pipe & the quad immediately went pig rich (somewhere in the 11:1's).

Anyhow - I'll probably take some heat for this, but I think there are some out there with some personal agendas that are spinning the results of the "dyno shootout" to the people who don't know what's up behind the scenes.

For instance, out of all the dyno runs on this pipe, they say nothing about the ones Tony Tice has done (Cam designer for Hot Cams), the ones John Zeihl has done (the PC creator)- understandable if you don't know or trust him, or even the results that Lazarus Sommers of GT Thunder got with an early prototype of this pipe.

In fact, I don't know anyone that wouldn't consider Laz a "unbiased" source.

I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to "defend" the PC exhaust, I just want everyone to get a fair shake and keep personal differences out of the equasion. Here are Laz's comments about the pipe - get the full picture and come to your own conclusions:

"I had the privilege of testing one of his first ones. The one I tested was constructed inside a stock 400ex canister, and was tested against a well known aftermarket exhaust. With his permission I would like to post the dyno results. It really did work well. I have not had the privilege of testing one of the production units."

"These tests were done In Jan/03. The sound tests were done at full throtle under load on the dyno to give a better idea of how loud it is when you ride it. John stood about 30 feet behind the bike to take the readings. The base pipe that was used for comparison was a Pro Circuit. The blue line on the graph was his invention (the PC) and tested at 109db at full throtle while the base line exhaust tested at 114db at full throtle."

http://www.xcracing.com/gabe/pcsilencer.jpg

[Kennethyfz450]

Originally posted by 29FTEX
OK.
Are you going to add something in there that says this wasn't your write up?

Give credit to John for that valuable info.

LOL... sorry:D

I going to do another ride report tomorrow at Land Between the Lakes in Kentucky... I will let anyone with some sense hop on my bike..


i was just sharing the info, becuase we all know dirtwheels loves Dr. D and showing that the pulse charger out performed their Race version we all know it will dominate the quiet verision.....:macho


The pc is the best bang for the buck i believe. it out performs my lrd on the bottom to mid, and really shines on top.. I love it!

[sampleez]

that's cool, a bunch of my buddies go to LBL a bunch, but i don't care for it too much with a new bike. too many trees and rocks!!
Where are you from? if your close and ride mx any you should come out and ride one of the few local tracks with a bunch of us.

i still think my setup will be better in the long run. after i get the intake cam and an intake, it will be a lot faster, for about the same money. and i like the bling of the stainless(well... after i polish it)

i also wonder how much closer the dynos would be if the PC was a slip on, or the drd had a full system version.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
As you may have read & I don't want to get that started up again ------ was a fairly controversial "shootout".

The problems I had with it as an objective and complete test were:

9 pipes were tested in only 2.5 hours

Only one of the pipes (Sparks) was run with an AFR meter in place.

At first, the pipes were ranked only by peak numbers with no explanation of why peak isn't necessarily the number you really care about.

Heck, easily the worst performing pipe in the test was ranked on top (HMF with quiet core) - most of the general public that knows little about how to read dyno runs immediately thinks that since it produced the best peak, it's the best pipe - but when you look at the overall picture, it's actually the worst.

Personally - when I had my quad on the dyno (with an HMF pipe), I spent probably 4 hours tuning one setup, one pipe.

One thing I noted when doing all this tuning on my own quad was how much the main affected power on the dyno, yet they were small enough changes you couldn't typically "feel" it when riding the quad - it is critical to get jetting correct if you are going to get accurate results of the performance of each pipe & the numbers can be skewed significantly by incorrect jetting which is especially important on a PC because it is so different from the others.

To me, that was a rushed test that provided results that only concluded one thing --- similar pipes with the same jetting produce roughly the same dyno numbers on the same machine. We already pretty much knew that, didn't we?

I don't want to pump one pipe over another and I don't want to step on any toes - but my below are my thoughts on the PC exhaust:

I have an HMF Full system as well as a PC -- currently I can't comment on the difference in performance on my machine because I haven't ridden the PC yet (I'm still in the middle of prepping it for the upcoming season). However, I can say that my HMF produced pretty good numbers on the dyno and ran well. The PC is certainly significantly more quiet and has a little lower pitch than the HMF.

I have personally met the creator of the PC and seen him operate his dyno. He also has given several people on these messageboards FREE dyno time for whatever setups they wanted to test. He's an upstanding guy who dispises poor dyno practices. In fact, he stresses over how to present the dyno runs of his pipe because other pipe builders use such inflated numbers (i.e. you're not going to get 45 hp from ANYONE's pipe alone) -- yet, he has to compete with these guys.

I have also personally seen some bikes with the PC run on the dyno and they all ran better than they should have for the mods they have - for instance he has a 416EX with a stock head, an HRC cam, 11:1 piston, PC pipe, and a 450R carb that produces over 40hp -- talk about a budget buildup....

I have also personally seen that the pipe does exactly what he claims in that it scavenges and produces a better vacuum signal at the carb, which immediately makes the quad go rich. For instance, one quad was jetted perfectly with another pipe - the only change that was made was to slip a PC onto the same header pipe & the quad immediately went pig rich (somewhere in the 11:1's).

Anyhow - I'll probably take some heat for this, but I think there are some out there with some personal agendas that are spinning the results of the "dyno shootout" to the people who don't know what's up behind the scenes.

For instance, out of all the dyno runs on this pipe, they say nothing about the ones Tony Tice has done (Cam designer for Hot Cams), the ones John Zeihl has done (the PC creator)- understandable if you don't know or trust him, or even the results that Lazarus Sommers of GT Thunder got with an early prototype of this pipe.

In fact, I don't know anyone that wouldn't consider Laz a "unbiased" source.

I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to "defend" the PC exhaust, I just want everyone to get a fair shake and keep personal differences out of the equasion. Here are Laz's comments about the pipe - get the full picture and come to your own conclusions:

"I had the privilege of testing one of his first ones. The one I tested was constructed inside a stock 400ex canister, and was tested against a well known aftermarket exhaust. With his permission I would like to post the dyno results. It really did work well. I have not had the privilege of testing one of the production units."

"These tests were done In Jan/03. The sound tests were done at full throtle under load on the dyno to give a better idea of how loud it is when you ride it. John stood about 30 feet behind the bike to take the readings. The base pipe that was used for comparison was a Pro Circuit. The blue line on the graph was his invention (the PC) and tested at 109db at full throtle while the base line exhaust tested at 114db at full throtle."

http://www.xcracing.com/gabe/pcsilencer.jpg

what is your explanation now Gabe?

[2muchquad]

hmm i smell snake oil...lol

[86atc250r]

Don't know, wasn't there to supervise the testing. I don't need an explanation, I have all the info I need from one source I trust even if all others can be discounted for whatever reason a person may discount them. (that would be Laz at GTT for those that are lost at this point & if you don't know why, bother not reading any further)

But... Maybe Laz was lying? Maybe Tony Tice was lying? Maybe the others with direct experience that say this pipe produced positive differences for them - maybe they were all lying too?

Heck, maybe I was lying when I said the pipe did exactly what John said it would do in that it richened my jetting to the point of significant power loss (as I noted it on the dyno). After all, Laz, Tony, myself, and others have so much to gain from this pipe's success :rolleyes:

Seems to me that the testing you were involved with is practically the only testing that hasn't shown a performance advantage with this pipe ---- Isn't it also an odd coincidence that you happen to have a well publicized personal vendetta against the creator of this pipe (as well as others I won't mention that were directly invoved with this testing)? After all, why would you be advertising so loudly and gloating so smugly if you didn't?

Not making any accusations, only observations.

Seems odd to me that well respected engine builders & very experienced dyno operators (not to mention the performance enthusiasts who have ridden the pipe) would all lie about their experience and findings - doesn't it to you?

In fact, give me one good reason I should trust your dyno runs more than I should trust Laz's or Tony's? Because you can get 75 ft/lbs of Harley torque out of a 400ex at 3300 RPM and none of these other guys can even touch that :confused: - or just because you're simply louder about these results than they are about theirs? (and I say "your" dyno runs with the full realization that they weren't necessarily yours, but you were right there and directly involved.)

Anyhow - I couldn't care less who's pipe you run or anyone else for that matter, I get paid the same if 50,000 PCs are sold or if zero are sold (i.e. nothing for those folks among us that are more "challenged" than others).

Isn't it odd that we don't have any more differently designed, quieter pipes that still offer great performance out there and available to us with the warm welcome this one has received from folks like yourself and a few choice others? If you were a pipe builder would you take the chance at being chastised for trying something new and different - or would you just repackage the same old "cherry bomb" you know you can make a huge profit on?

Guess it won't matter much when the public land is closed due to noise complaints...

BTW, congrats on your big dyno nbrs... After spending that much time, cash, and energy in pumping it to everyone, it must be a relief to make a big pull. Now if only you and ChadExEr could meet up for a big run and a "whos got the biggest... errr... fastest stuff shootout".....

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
Seems to me that the testing you were involved with is practically the only testing that hasn't shown a performance advantage with this pipe ---- Isn't it also an odd coincidence that you happen to have a well publicized personal vendetta against the creator of this pipe (as well as others I won't mention that were directly invoved with this testing)? After all, why would you be advertising so loudly and gloating so smugly if you didn't?

Gabe- tish tish tish. Even when I wasn't even there at the second shootout you make a claim like i had interference in the results. What kind of stupid claim is that to Brian and Matt. If i were them i'd be thinking only a fool would believe those words from you. C'mon man! others directly involved like harlen? now you attack harlen? Dood get real.

Secondly, I have no personal vendetta against the creator of the pipe even after he was constantly slamming me almost everyday on the other forum after he and i exchanged words a while back and even after i was banded from .org. I gave up a thinking we could repair that wound (although i'm still intested). I will admit that the only personal vendetta i have is against you. This backlash to you is to discount your so called "logical" reasoning and so i could enjoy and see your back-pedalling. Even with all the troubling post that i had been involved with ppl from .org, you are the only one left that hasn't tried to erase our past. As I have clearly said in alot of my posts about the PC, my interest to discredit is not with the pipe creator or with the clan (cudos to all) it's with you. As far as the pipe, he is my summary:
price- highest
performance- good
weight- like stock
looks- ok
sound- different
innovative- yes
Advertising? what am i selling except information on how to maximize power and illustrating the gain on "twisting" cam timing backwards? wake up Gabe- i'm not selling anything here.


Seems odd to me that well respected engine builders & very experienced dyno operators (not to mention the performance enthusiasts who have ridden the pipe) would all lie about their experience and findings - doesn't it to you?
hmm, that does seems strange how their feeling don't match these two shootout results, but the dyno is only a tool to measure change and really should not be used to quantify. Honestly, who doesn't quantify though after a clean set of independent test such as the ones that were performed.


In fact, give me one good reason I should trust your dyno runs more than I should trust Laz's or Tony's? Because you can get 75 ft/lbs of Harley torque out of a 400ex at 3300 RPM and none of these other guys can even touch that :confused: - or just because you're simply louder about these results than they are about theirs? (and I say "your" dyno runs with the full realization that they weren't necessarily yours, but you were right there and directly involved.)
now its back to me again huh? ya see ever other para from you is about your issue with me. unbelievable.


Anyhow - I couldn't care less who's pipe you run or anyone else for that matter, I get paid the same if 50,000 PCs are sold or if zero are sold (i.e. nothing for those folks among us that are more "challenged" than others).
ok, i don't recall asking you what pipe i should run


BTW, congrats on your big dyno nbrs... After spending that much time, cash, and energy in pumping it to everyone, it must be a relief to make a big pull. Now if only you and ChadExEr could meet up for a big run and a "whos got the biggest... errr... fastest stuff shootout".....
thanks. it was a relief. hoping to get a few more next weekend too on a stock carb. no Gabe, my builds make me happy for the success i have as a project and is not intended to line up against anyone else. my challenge is to myself. i just expose all the information for others to see advantages or disadvantages of doing strokers. understand? if i was interested in "who's got the biggest" or "fastest shootout", would i provide details of my build if i were out to be the "best" like you claim? no.