the 530R is alive

[chad502ex]

fired up the 530r for the first time tonight to wear-in on the dyno either friday night or saturday morning. it sounded really aggressive. i'm real happy it started. if i can just keep the grim reaper away from the new 05' crank bearing, it should be ok- i hope.

chad502ex.com

:D

[chad502ex]

,..

[hondaracer305]

sounds like its gonna be a mean machine, hope it keeps some reliability for a while ;) . Post up the numbers before too long man, id like to see what that thing can do :)

u did all that and kept that crappy stock bearing?

[ny300exrider]

crazzy

[CTmxyfz]

you brought it out to a 530R and you didn't even touch the suspension??

Point of this is?

[Jersey450R]

dude are they spidertracks on there! thats great! they probably roost like a ******.

[chad502ex]

yea, i had no other choice on the crank bearing- wish i did

suspension is next project ;)

jersey those are Mud Machine rear tires for PA hill climbing and XC. Hoosiers are on now for the dyno

with any luck maybe the 530 will do 60rwhp, but i think realistically it'll probally hit 53-58. anywhere between 50 and 60 i'll be thrilled. i've seen 520's hit upper 50's. only difference with the 530 to 520 is really stroke and smaller bore on 530; so, probally little more torque but near the same hp.

[garett]

prob dont need to much suspension to whoop someone in a drag real fast like. but i would go with some beefy suspension, looks very nice tho, good work

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by garett
prob dont need to much suspension to whoop someone in a drag real fast like. but i would go with some beefy suspension, looks very nice tho, good work

thank you garett

[mikes450r]

good job chad..i know you have been at it for awhile now..let us now those numbers when you get them...

mike

[speedfreaksguy]

Did you paint the head cover or is that powder?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
good job chad..i know you have been at it for awhile now..let us now those numbers when you get them...

mike

thanks mike. yea, being a new father its tough to get time in the garage for personal hobbies like building engines, ya know? it's been ~3 painful months since the teardown of the engine. now i'm just crossing my fingers and hoping that the engine holds up at least until next top rebuild.

but that's all unpredictable. what i need to be concerned with now is engine break-in (not literly) on the dyno.

I wonder how much friction loss (or hp loss) the 530 will have on the dyno being the engine is so tight and hasn't gotten the chance to loosen up any?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by speedfreaksguy
Did you paint the head cover or is that powder?

powdercoated head cover not paint

[CTmxyfz]

sorry, i race MX and im not familiar with drag racing quads..:rolleyes:

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by CTmxyfz
sorry, i race MX and im not familiar with drag racing quads..:rolleyes:

that's ok CT, this isn't a MX or drag setup. I built it mainly for XC and climbs.

[Hammer trx450r]

Nice job chad, congrates on the startup. Forget about the Dyno how is the seat of the pants feel?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Hammer trx450r
Nice job chad, congrates on the startup. Forget about the Dyno how is the seat of the pants feel?


Thanks Hammer!

maybe tonite, i'll get it out of the garage and rip the neighborhood street up a bit-

as soon as i get my info i'll post for ya. i'm stoked too about feeling her.

:D

[CTmxyfz]

Originally posted by chad502ex
that's ok CT, this isn't a MX or drag setup. I built it mainly for XC and climbs.


looking foward to seeing some color and suspension though!;)

[chris450R]

definitely should rip! hurry up though on them dyno numbers, i think everyone is just as excited as you are to see how she does. i bet the 530R will rip in the dunes too.

[02Yellow400]

chad where in PA are you?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 02Yellow400
chad where in PA are you?

I'm in MD, but i ride in Frackville/Mt.Carmel PA area

[02Yellow400]

ever ride hazelton?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 02Yellow400
ever ride hazelton?

sounds real familiar- is that north of Frackville?

[02Yellow400]

yeah i think its a little north but im not exactly sure. There are some really big coal hills there you should check it out sometime

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 02Yellow400
yeah i think its a little north but im not exactly sure. There are some really big coal hills there you should check it out sometime

i would love too. Usually, twice a month we ride up there with a group called the "RatPack" or a group called "Speedballs". The President of the Speedballs (www.speedballs.org) rides north from Frackville towards that area, and I beleive he has even mentioned it too. There are lots of climbs like you speak of near Ashland too.

[twisted threads]

Great job on your 450r Chad! I can't wate to hear how she runs!! :D

[popo]

Thats gonna sound Braaaaaaaaap!

[WhiteZee]

do you have an idea on what size mainjet your going to use, i know you'll find out for sure on the dyno.

[450Rkid]

leave every thing else stock make it a total sleeper


looks like a old stocker but you cant tell whats under the hood till you race that smack talkin fool

[chad502ex]

twisted thanks alot i appreciate it. i have to tell ya i'm really stoked about her. when i start her up its really really sounded aggressive as shiznit. a little burp on the throttle and she sounds pist-off. even the cam overlap of the x2 (mid to top) sounds like it has a rap to her. I started in front of my friend who built the same engine and all he could do is eyes wide open:eek2: . my other friend who is building a 416 in my garage indicated "that thing is angry sounding when throttled"

Hey WhiteZee! 55 slow is being overnighted to me by tommorrow- hopefully in time for dyno saturday morning before I drive over to .org pipe shootout in Baltimore to see the infamous Pulse Charger in action. I tried 58 slow and it was too rich but it ran ok. now i have a 52 installed and the header got a bit hot. 55 slow is it! i'm starting with 210 main most likely but i'll see what the dyno a/f tells me on top.

Popo, that's exactly what is sounds like,... Braaaaaaaap! with every throttle stab- and really really quick rev'n too!

450R kid- my plans exactly- sleeper. this is setup for smokin everything in the dirt; on climbs, on drag, and in the woods too. and yes i've been out roostin on quads since 87' (not trying to much to toot) so i can swing around the trees LOL

one more thing, i'll post another last pic tommorrow night of the finished project before the dyno wear-in. thanks everyone!

[kwatts400]

Originally posted by chad502ex
i would love too. Usually, twice a month we ride up there with a group called the "RatPack" or a group called "Speedballs". The President of the Speedballs (www.speedballs.org) rides north from Frackville towards that area, and I beleive he has even mentioned it too. There are lots of climbs like you speak of near Ashland too.

You ride in Ashland, Chad? I went for the first time this fall and they were some of the biggest hills I've ever seen!

[lukester720]

Good job Chad, I can't wait to see what she'll do!

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by kwatts400
You ride in Ashland, Chad? I went for the first time this fall and they were some of the biggest hills I've ever seen!

Yes, Ashland has the infamous "500 Hill". This hill you need at least 500CC to climb. That's why we called it that- heh! I walk that hill on the 502 and a modified 450r before the 530 rebuild.

Thanks Luke!

[kwatts400]

Originally posted by chad502ex
Yes, Ashland has the infamous "500 Hill". This hill you need at least 500CC to climb. That's why we called it that- heh! I walk that hill on the 502 and a modified 450r before the 530 rebuild.

Thanks Luke!

Last time I was there, I was riding with this guy, he wasn't having any problems with any of the hills.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by kwatts400
Last time I was there, I was riding with this guy, he wasn't having any problems with any of the hills.
LOL! that place i see all the time. the climb behind the camera man is the biggest. that's the "500 hill"

:macho

Originally posted by kwatts400
Last time I was there, I was riding with this guy, he wasn't having any problems with any of the hills.

That looks like the "Realtor" club. I used to run a set of those on my old 250R. Can you still buy those? if so, where at?

[kwatts400]

You should be able to get them just about anywhere.

Here is an older pic of the hill I think.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by force
That looks like the "Realtor" club. I used to run a set of those on my old 250R. Can you still buy those? if so, where at?

oh no- IMO i've ran the Realtor tire before and these Mud Machine tires beats them hands down. excellent XC tire all round (mud and hard pack and loose) plus 6 ply. I use them mainly as paddle like for PA hill climbing coal traction.

Magic Racing sells them for 69 each

[HiZ]

Take off the fan it will cool better!
That thing destroys your radiator anyway.

hope that you got a diff rod!
stock bearing should be Ok

ping ping :devil:

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by HiZ
Take off the fan it will cool better!
That thing destroys your radiator anyway.

hope that you got a diff rod!
stock bearing should be Ok

ping ping :devil:

not really worried about the cooling with the PWR (30% more)

Falicon Knife Rod

details are on my website
http://www.chad502ex.com

[cletusEX]

Looks sweet man. Let us know how it does on the dyno.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by cletusEX
Looks sweet man. Let us know how it does on the dyno.

absolutely- even if the 530 doesn't make a good pull i will reluctantly post the info anyway. i think it should do mid 50's tho (fingers-crossed)

later tonight i'll post a pic everyone is going to love and flip over i bet!

[2manycrashes]

congrats on getting it put back together, I'll be interested to see the results.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 2manycrashes
congrats on getting it put back together, I'll be interested to see the results.

thanks 2many, and all for the support. that's really kewl!

I rode it tonight and i have to say is O-my-freeg'n GOD. The fastest thing I've ever rid'n was a Hyabusa Street Bike (my brothers) at 180 mph, and a highly modified 370 long rod banshee (aka B370 or Walt); anyway, i think mine is in there somewhere- at least it feels like it. don't freek i know its not a busa but it seems like in between those two,... :D

i am sooooo glad this project is done. now i get my life back HEH!

here's the quad all finished up and ready for the dyno.


chad502ex.com

[mikes450r]

whats that on the end of your sparks pipe..

mike

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
whats that on the end of your sparks pipe..

mike

ahh, good question!

Smokey the Bear says "Prevent Forest Fires Bo-Bo"!

"Spark" arrestor or discs to control backpressure. Helps to dialing in too and find the in-between. when i dyno i don't think they will be installed especially since they choke the flow and i need to get a/f meter inserted up the exhaust.

[mikes450r]

thats cool..i just never seen a sparks pipe like that..

cant wait to see your dynos though...

mike

[hondaride]

thats just sick

[chad502ex]

well, just got back from the pipe shootout at Harlens place. the 530 dyno'd at 51rwhp with 39ft/lbs of torque on fresh motor with no break-in. The motor was extremely tight. it should have done maybe 3-4 more hp but i think my timing was off. i'll hace to take the head back off and check for wear because the ticking was loud enough on idle. :confused:

anyway the stroker pulled the torque #'s for the day, but the hp was a couple down from a NMotion 520 (54: editted)

by the way, the pipe shootout was great

it was kewl to see how a pipe isn't going to produce peak HP the same on a big bore or stroker compared to a stocker. A big bore and stroker needs a totally different type of pipe than stocker.

My best run was with a Sparks
then Baldwin
then Pulse Charge

On stock 450 bore the Sparks was last

On 520 the NMotion pipe was best

I'll post the results as soon as I get an electronic version of the runs.


Then, I'll fix the bad ticking then dyno again. Overall, I wasn't too satisfied with the peak HP, but was thrilled with the torque #'s. I still think the valve train hard ticking (timing) was holding the motor back.
One more comment, it was good to finally meet all the ppl there. They are all really kewl. Thanks Mobile Dyno (Matt and Ryan), Harlen, WPPRacing (Brian), Joe1 and 370king (jersey folk) and the other guys there too!

To be continued,....

chad502ex.com

[mikes450r]

so how was the pulsecharger on the stock bore..

[EPDP99]

Chad, I am still amazed your 502 puts out 78ftlb and 46?? hp. Only remembered the tq. My 465 puts out 52.6hp and 35.7tq. well done on the 530 hope you get the ticking fixed. I cant wait to see the other results to come.

Eric

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by EPDP99
Chad, I am still amazed your 502 puts out 78ftlb and 46?? hp. Only remembered the tq. My 465 puts out 52.6hp and 35.7tq. well done on the 530 hope you get the ticking fixed. I cant wait to see the other results to come.

Eric

ya thanks. when i get that ticking fix the 530 should pull about 55 and maybe a few over 40ft/lbs. yea, i've never seen any 400ex (stroked or bored) do over 52hp. i will say that and engine usually does better on torque or hp, but hard to do on both.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
so how was the pulsecharger on the stock bore..

the pulse charger lost on every 450r we installed it on.

the stock 450r PC placed fifth i think

editted 6th

[mikes450r]

which one did the best..i have the sparks and you said it got last place..i ne3ver exspected that..let me know...thanks chad

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
which one did the best..i have the sparks and you said it got last place..i ne3ver exspected that..let me know...thanks chad

this is the results for the stock 450r (stock bore not compression)

the 520 had different pipe order, as I did

am now done with the pipe shoot out. It was a very interesting day. Here are the pipes starting with the WORST to the BEST in order by HP .
To view the pipe with the graph you will have to go to www.precision-ms.com
phone # 540-455-7544
It will be show on there site later tomarrow.

Here they are:
All were tested with the K&N without a pre filter(showed most HP between the filters). The Pulse Charger was rejetted to a 170 main, All The other pipes were with a 180 main.

Curtis Sparks X6 Ceramic - HP 44.95 Torque 30.52
Stealth Charger - HP 45.21 Torque 30.77
NMotion - HP 45.72 Torque 30.72
Pulse Charger - HP 46.11 Torque 31.33
WB Carbon Pro - HP 46.19 Torque 31.22
Baldwin - HP 46.43 Torque 31.47
HMF - HP 46.58 Torque 31.70
Rossier(RE) - HP 46.80 Torque 31.69
HMF w/quiet core insert(still loud) - HP 47.00 Torque 30.92

The ATV used was The WppRacing 450R
See the signature for description.

[Kilabanshee]

Chad I remember my friend, a local in hazelton telling me about some sick hill which only the best can make it up. The area we ride is in the town of Freeland tons of different types of riding hillclimbs, long drag areas, jumps, and tight/open trail riding. I'll be heading up in the spring about every weekend. Any interest in meeting up?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Kilabanshee
Chad I remember my friend, a local in hazelton telling me about some sick hill which only the best can make it up the hill. The area we ride at is in the town of freeland tons of different types of riding I'll be heading up in the spring about every weekend. Any interest in meeting up?

yes. PM when you know when you are going.

[brif]

Originally posted by chad502ex
the pulse charger lost on every 450r we installed it on.

the stock 450r PC placed fifth i think

editted 6th


Was wpp's bike the stock bore? If so I thought I seen it posted, that the PC was in the middle of the pack and the diff between it and the best was like less than 0.92 hp.......

[brif]

sorry chad, you must have reposted while I was typing.....

[chad502ex]

I have to tell everyone that the "hype" on the PC is now over. on the stock 450r it placed 6th out of 9, on the NMotion 520 it placed second cause he only tested two, and on my 530 it place last out of three. for the 520 run and my run with the pulse charger, we had an a/f meter inserted into the PC on both runs our jetting was close to 13 for mine and 13-14 on NM520- so jetting was good. this PC isn't really what ppl should be used in bigger bores. for stockers it's a good pipe- but others are better. I still have to commend John (aka Mixxer) for entering his design into the competition. that took major balls. maybe as a result of the shootout the price of it will drop down to the competition prices so more ppl can afford to buy the PC over the winners.

[Kilabanshee]

I'll send you a pm along with a set of directions to were we can meet up in the spring. I'de like to see you in the bowl "the name for the long drag strip" and go against some other 450's saying your motor is stock:blah: Last time I was up I was shown several new jumps which are alot of fun and quite easy. The hill in town is known as Big Ben. I saw 2 mostly stock 450rs make it up one of the harder climbs up there without a problem. There is one climb which my friend made 3/4 up the way on his atv but nobody has yet to make it up. There is an area to burm back down so you dont roll your quad if you dont make it to the top. I think it would be pretty sweet if you'de be the first to make it up.
Pm me for any questions..
Later,
Brent

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by brif
Was wpp's bike the stock bore? If so I thought I seen it posted, that the PC was in the middle of the pack and the diff between it and the best was like less than 0.92 hp.......

true, but the PC weighs significantly more than most. we positioned all 9 of them lined on top of snow for pictures- the pulse sank to the ground while others didn't. if you held them in your hands the PC was clearly heavier than most. 1 hp lost and heavier plus more money?

maybe all the billet in the pipe is what makes it weigh like it does.

not bad pipe tho!

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Kilabanshee
I'll send you a pm along with a set of directions to were we can meet up in the spring. I'de like to see you in the bowl "the name for the long drag strip" and go against some other 450's saying your motor is stock:blah: Last time I was up I was shown several new jumps which are alot of fun and quite easy. The hill in town is known as Big Ben. I saw 2 mostly stock 450rs make it up one of the harder climbs up there without a problem. There is one climb which my friend made 3/4 up the way on his atv but nobody has yet to make it up. There is an area to burm back down so you dont roll your quad if you dont make it to the top. I think it would be pretty sweet if you'de be the first to make it up.
Pm me for any questions..
Later,
Brent

i'm there- it sounds like my type of riding. love that area!

[wppracing]

The ATV was mine.
Please read my signature for the description. It is a stock bore.

[mikes450r]

hey wpp are you still going to keep your sparks..i have it also..what the weight like on the rossier..i have been wanting to sell my sparks anyways..so i might get the rossier or the hmf..

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
which one did the best..i have the sparks and you said it got last place..i ne3ver exspected that..let me know...thanks chad

my 530 performed best with Sparks
the 520 performed best with NMotion
and stock performed best with HMF quiet core

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
hey wpp are you still going to keep your sparks..i have it also..what the weight like on the rossier..i have been wanting to sell my sparks anyways..so i might get the rossier or the hmf..

Even though the HMF was 0.2hp better than RE, I like the RE best for stock 450r cause it sounded quieter/smoother and performed well

[mikes450r]

hey chad i wont be doing any big bore like that but i have a 13'1 piston coming...what do you think...mike

[mikes450r]

ah...i guess you type faster than me chad..

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
hey chad i wont be doing any big bore like that but i have a 13'1 piston coming...what do you think...mike

get the RE it performed and sounded awesome. for 13:1 and HRC like WPPRacing quad it'll get 47hp like he did! Amazing HP for stock bore isn't it?

just goes to show you that HONDA set this up to be a screamer right off the showroom floor with just pipe, cam, filter...

WOW!

[wppracing]

The sparks was used 4 times total (3 today) and it is for sale. It will be on EBAY tomarrow along with a NEW Pro Design air filter

[mikes450r]

right now i have the sparks cam...but i was thinking about putting in the hotcam stage 2 when i get hte new piston..
think i should change or just keep the sparks cam..i was thinking that with the new piston i will have a ton of bottem end...

mike

[chad502ex]

BTW, everyone interested in seeing all the dyno results can log on and register at
http://www.precision-ms.com

Go there!

[EPDP99]

Originally posted by chad502ex
ya thanks. when i get that ticking fix the 530 should pull about 55 and maybe a few over 40ft/lbs. yea, i've never seen any 400ex (stroked or bored) do over 52hp. i will say that and engine usually does better on torque or hp, but hard to do on both.

By the number you gave i thought the same until i saw my dyno sheet. i was kinda confused but it still seems pretty impressive. although my jetting is off bad but once i get the fcr dialed in ill have to redyno it just for fun.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by EPDP99
By the number you gave i thought the same until i saw my dyno sheet. i was kinda confused but it still seems pretty impressive. although my jetting is off bad but once i get the fcr dialed in ill have to redyno it just for fun.

absolutely, so many ppl forget that the dyno is just a tool no matter if the engine is a 5 hp briggs and straton or a Hyabusa. the dyno is used to get the motor dialed in and shouldn't be used to claim fame (although its nice)! The most impressive part of 4 strokes is that the powerband is much larger than a 2 stroke and has more usable power. 2 strokes are into peak hp. I'd say that its tougher for me to try and find and stay on peak power, but if I have power distributed across the powerband than it's easier for me to thump and go. the bottom line is that when your finish making your runs on the dyno you should have gotten more power out of it with jetting changes.

[chad502ex]

thanks joe1l for emailing me the dyno's

[ktom300]

Your 530 looks nice. On the other hand, I can't belive no one has called you on your claimed 78 Ft lbs. of torque on your 502. I don't like to call people liars so I went to your website to look at your dyno numbers and I noticed there aren't any that show this mythical 78 ft lbs. When I see the numbers produced by other bikes such as in this test it only makes this number look more impossible. I'm not trying to be a dick but I just don't think it's anywhere near achievable.

[EPDP99]

heres my number chad:

[EPDP99]

it wont load, ill have to wait untill im home:(

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by ktom300
Your 530 looks nice. On the other hand, I can't belive no one has called you on your claimed 78 Ft lbs. of torque on your 502. I don't like to call people liars so I went to your website to look at your dyno numbers and I noticed there aren't any that show this mythical 78 ft lbs. When I see the numbers produced by other bikes such as in this test it only makes this number look more impossible. I'm not trying to be a dick but I just don't think it's anywhere near achievable.


thanks
unlike most ppl that claim huge numbers- i dont'- i just post the info so everyone can think what they want with the information. i don't hide anything even when like today my new 530 didn't perform as well as i thought it should have in the hp area. hopefully, i'll find the ticking problem then re-dyno and post again for ppl to disbelieve.

how many engines have you seen with a +7 or +8mm stroke?

[EPDP99]

try again

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by EPDP99
it wont load, ill have to wait untill im home:(

kewl- i editted my last post when i saw you got it up!

very nice.

i editted my post and asked, why did you measure ground speed? then i deleted it and thought it don't matter much what "x" scale is when all your concerned with is curve.

[EPDP99]

it worked:D

[ktom300]

Have you posted the torque numbers from your 502 dyno run?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by ktom300
Have you posted the torque numbers from your 502 dyno run?

I do not have the plot to post, but I will try to get Motor Sports Performance to recall the dyno data and plot torque and hp combined

[EPDP99]

Originally posted by EPDP99
Chad, I am still amazed your 502 puts out 78ftlb and 46?? hp. Only remembered the tq. My 465 puts out 52.6hp and 35.7tq. well done on the 530 hope you get the ticking fixed. I cant wait to see the other results to come.

Eric

Corrected numbers. I missread......
max hp=52.6@7519,7669,7773 rpms
max tq=37.5@5762 rpms

highest rpm reached was 97.27
highest speed was 73.5 mph

[ktom300]

I don't mean to put you on the spot Chad but I just find it difficult to believe your 502 cc single makes as much torque as an 88 Ci Harley. How much torque does the FST 500EX make?

[mikes450r]

damn ktom,you have a total of 3 post and there all about getting the torque numbers from chad..im sure if he can get them and post them he will..just take it easy for alittle bit and see what he can come up with..:)

mike

[Bad Habit]

How can all of the pipes be ran using the exact same jetting and then declare these numbers as what the pipes are capable of producing? I'm a little confused how a "winner" or "loser" can be determined by this.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Bad Habit
How can all of the pipes be ran using the exact same jetting and then declare these numbers as what the pipes are capable of producing? I'm a little confused how a "winner" or "loser" can be determined by this.

hey dan!

i can only speak for what i've done.

two of the three pipes i ran on the 530 had a/f done on them. The first was the Sparks, which had the most torque and HP for me, and the other pipe was the Pulse. Both a/f runs for the Sparks and the Pulse hugged 13 (on the main). my needle height was off by one clip (rich) and my slow was off one too (ran 55 needed 52). i didn't change the slow or needle cause time is money on the dyno. changing these two would have little effect on the main. it was obvious that even when dialed in the 530R peak hp fell off as much as three using the pulse.

i believe that the other two quads also a/f when the pulse charger was installed and nobody had that good of numbers using it even comparing to pipes without a/f metering. In other words, wppracing can provide better details on his procedure.

hope this helped dan.

[brif]

Hey chad, what was the closest town to where the dyno runs were performed? I'm kinda curious to the location's actual elevation........

[chad502ex]

compare the dyno results of the 520 to my 530
both of these machines had the same valve setup and same port/flow done by NMotion. The only difference between the two on the top end of the engines is that the 520 had a top end "misto" webcam installed and the 530 had a mid range Mega "X2" cam.

Therefore, with the exception of the cam peak power differences, performance should be similiar in HP but not torque (although a 101mm 520 piston makes up torque ground to 99mm 530 piston).

However, you can see that they are not the same. the 520 had more hp (not torque) than the 530. This is what raises my brow :huh

If you look at the 530 hp dyno graph you'll notice alot of wiggle from 7000 to 9000 rpm. Comparitively to the 520, the 520 is nice and smooth in this range. All engines should not bounce as much as the 530 did in this rpm range. This is a clear indication that the 530 valve train had issues; hence- the loud ticking heard by all.

I believe when i find the indication marks when i dissemble the top end the 530 power curve will smooth out and peak up almost exactly as the 520 did (54-55). Another thing to mention here is that when i change the needle height and slow that the bottom end torque number will improve too. if you notice between 4000 and 6000 rpm on the 530r torque curve the torgue is below the peak torque in the main jet range. This is because i did not bother adjusting the needle and slow

Based on these two results; here's my revised prediction for the 530r after i work the ticking issue:
53-55hp and 40-43ft/lbs of torque on stock carb. getting a bigger carb will improve these numbers too

BTW: i'll post pics on the ticking if there are any indication marks within the head. it could be cam lobe striking the edge of valve lifter buckets, or valve spring or retainer clips. we'll see

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by brif
Hey chad, what was the closest town to where the dyno runs were performed? I'm kinda curious to the location's actual elevation........

Winchester MD

[Mobile Dyno]

We were told the elevation was around 800ft

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Mobile Dyno
We were told the elevation was around 800ft

thanks Matt!

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
damn ktom,you have a total of 3 post and there all about getting the torque numbers from chad..im sure if he can get them and post them he will..just take it easy for alittle bit and see what he can come up with..:)

mike

heh, ya,.... nowadays everything is based on fact. Nobody every just takes your word anymore:confused:

It don't matter- my friend reminded me that we do have the graph plot printout somewhere that has 77.5ft/lbs of torque on it, we just had to locate its whereabouts in all the literature we have collected over the years. HEH!

if we can't find it- i'll call Motor Sport Performance and have them send it so we can snuff out the disbelievers

[mikes450r]

he thinks its a court...and hes the judge..:D :devil:

[chad502ex]

courtesy of Boone450R here posted the collection of dyno's that was uploaded to wppracing.com

the first!

[chad502ex]

the second

[chad502ex]

the third

[chad502ex]

the fourth

[chad502ex]

the fifth

[chad502ex]

the sixth

[chad502ex]

the seventh

[chad502ex]

eigth

[chad502ex]

ninth

[kgbg]

This was a good dyno test, and dyno tests are just dyno tests, the curve is lots more important.

The PC made 3 more hp at 6800 RPm's than the N motion, I would rather have more power there.

I know that I was more than impressed with my PC and the difference was noticeable. I was on the rev limiter in 5th as fast as 4th with the PC, at 79 mph on a GPS at 4250 feet elevation. The LRD hit the limiter too, but too a while to get there.


Chad, this is a littel quoting in fun, remember I like to be childish sometimes.


Truthfully, I hope to get 58-60 with my 550r. If I get more, all the better. We'll see shortly on the 550


i don't hide anything even when like today my new 530 didn't perform as well as i thought it should have in the hp area. hopefully, i'll find the ticking problem then re-dyno and post again for ppl to disbelieve






I have to tell everyone that the "hype" on the PC is now over.

I have to tell everyone that the HYPE of the 530r is now over

No one has said anyting about Sparks hype being over.......

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by kgbg
The PC made 3 more hp at 6800 RPm's than the N motion, I would rather have more power there.
Chad, this is a littel quoting in fun, remember I like to be childish sometimes.



I have to tell everyone that the HYPE of the 530r is now over

No one has said anyting about Sparks hype being over.......

tooshe' u got me Kam!

:)

it's all good. i've gotten beaten up sooo bad over the years i'm tough skin'd. i'm still pleased that even limping and not broken in yet the 530r made 55% more hp over stock and 10ft/lbs of torque on +4mm stroke. it'll get better too after tweeked! ;)



The PC made 3 more hp at 6800 RPm's than the N motion, I would rather have more power there.
this is true on the stock 450 bore but not on the big bores.


No one has said anyting about Sparks hype being over
huh? actually everyone yesterday at the shootout said that- including me for stock bore setups.

[ml450r]

Did the wpp stock bore pipe have any headwork?
Both big bores had n-motions headwork done to them?

Thanks for all the info. It's very interesting.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by ml450r
Did the wpp stock bore pipe have any headwork?
Both big bores had n-motions headwork done to them?

Thanks for all the info. It's very interesting.

thanks for participating!

you might have to verify with wpp, but i think he had gotten mild port work

both big bores had identical head work (valves/port-flow work)

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by chad502ex
hey dan!

i can only speak for what i've done.

two of the three pipes i ran on the 530 had a/f done on them. The first was the Sparks, which had the most torque and HP for me, and the other pipe was the Pulse. Both a/f runs for the Sparks and the Pulse hugged 13 (on the main). my needle height was off by one clip (rich) and my slow was off one too (ran 55 needed 52). i didn't change the slow or needle cause time is money on the dyno. changing these two would have little effect on the main. it was obvious that even when dialed in the 530R peak hp fell off as much as three using the pulse.

i believe that the other two quads also a/f when the pulse charger was installed and nobody had that good of numbers using it even comparing to pipes without a/f metering. In other words, wppracing can provide better details on his procedure.

hope this helped dan.

What main were you using with the three pipes?

Quite frankly, this doesn't help me. I am strongly questioning the jetting used for this entire thing. How can the stock bore test bed use a 170 main with the PC when the instructions that come with it state to use a 155, since this is the jetting showing a perfect A/Fr on a quad that is almost identical to the stock bore used in these "tests". The difference in hp and torque is HUGE between a 155 and 170.

The hype is over?? You should read a few of the ride reports coming in for the 450R and YFZ450. There are many people already getting rid of their previous setups after riding the PC. That's not hype, that's factual. And these are ride reports on accurately tuned bikes.

If it sounds like I'm blatantly defending the PC, well, I am. Especially after comments like "the pulse charger lost on every 450r we installed it on" and "I have to tell everyone that the hype on the PC is now over". This test using inaccurate tuning cannot be used as the end-all, beat-all.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Bad Habit
What main were you using with the three pipes?

Quite frankly, this doesn't help me. I am strongly questioning the jetting used for this entire thing. How can the stock bore test bed use a 170 main with the PC when the instructions that come with it state to use a 155, since this is the jetting showing a perfect A/Fr on a quad that is almost identical to the stock bore used in these "tests". The difference in hp and torque is HUGE between a 155 and 170.

The hype is over?? You should read a few of the ride reports coming in for the 450R and YFZ450. There are many people already getting rid of their previous setups after riding the PC. That's not hype, that's factual. And these are ride reports on accurately tuned bikes.

If it sounds like I'm blatantly defending the PC, well, I am. Especially after comments like "the pulse charger lost on every 450r we installed it on" and "I have to tell everyone that the hype on the PC is now over". This test using inaccurate tuning cannot be used as the end-all, beat-all.

hmm- those were not meant to be harsh comments as you have interpret them. I can understand now how that must look. When i said that the HYPE is over, i meant that the information is now available to everyone and that it is no longer hype. when i said that the PC lost on every test it did. I want everyone to know that i do think the pc is a good pipe in the "mix" of others, but all thing considered the pipe didn't perform as well as some on any machine. no denying that. there were many technical experts there yesterday and they all felt that the shootout was accurate enough. i agree that there is huge differences in 155 to 170, but the 155 isn't what was required on wpp setup that was measured by the a/f metering

I believe ya BH- if you like the PC and think it performs better than the rest well that must mean something. you are certainly technical and i trust that the "ride report" you give must be better than the facts presented thus far. i personally for one got to test the PC, not ride it

peace.

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by chad502ex
hmm- those were not meant to be harsh comments as you have interpret them. I can understand now how that must look. When i said that the HYPE is over, i meant that the information is now available to everyone and that it is no longer hype. when i said that the PC lost on every test it did. I want everyone to know that i do think the pc is a good pipe in the "mix" of others, but all thing considered the pipe didn't perform as well as some on any machine. no denying that. there were many technical experts there yesterday and they all felt that the shootout was accurate enough. i agree that there is huge differences in 155 to 170, but the 155 isn't what was required on wpp setup that was measured by the a/f metering

I believe ya BH- if you like the PC and think it performs better than the rest well that must mean something. you are certainly technical and i trust that the "ride report" you give must be better than the facts presented thus far. i personally one got to test it, not ride it

peace.
I might have interpreted some of that wrong. I see what you are referring to about the "hype". But again, I wouldn't want anyone to use these results as the end-all, beat-all and declare that we now have all the information. I guess if someone merely wants to purchase a pipe, make only one jetting change, and are not worried about trying to get the tuning dialed in, then yes, they could use these results. But I think everyone should be informed that there may or may not be more to be had with all of these exhausts.

One thing with the PC, all the previous dyno testing has shown that you are able to jet down leaner and leaner while still maintaining a safe A/Fr reading. Leaner always makes more power (well, as long as you are still in a safe A/Fr range...beyond that, leaner just goes BOOM)

I'm not limiting my reservations that I want people to have only to the PC. Dialing in the jetting with any of these pipes could possibly have pulled better power out, maybe not. But I know everyone was pressed for time.

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by chad502ex
i agree that there is huge differences in 155 to 170, but the 155 isn't what was required on wpp setup that was measured by the a/f metering


I might not have been clear about this in my previous post. The 170 main was installed as a base line attempt. When it read good with the A/Fr, it was rightfully declared as required. If you read my previous post about jetting leaner with the PC, I think you can see what I am getting at. Time being what it was, I understand why you guys would not have wanted to change the jetting for it considering what the A/Fr said. If the 155 was installed per the instruction sheet, I'm confident that it would have appeared as "required" as well from the A/Fr.

[mikes450r]

this is what mixxer said about the jetting on .org

165 main\ no lid on the stock carb is the recommended jetting for higher compression motors

155 main with a 40mm fcr carb

[chad502ex]

if i could email or post in .org to Mixxer i would quote the following post (by mix) and reply. So here is my small chance that he'll get this through the grape vines (you readers)

[b]
what do you guys want from a full time radiation dosimetrist part time engine builder who is trying to change that ratio to full time performance guy and "no time" dosimetrist??!! ;)

i'm sure the scissor sister performance team of chad and harlen are celebrating the day in a trancelike state of euphoria convinced of the fact that they have plunged the stake deep into dracula's heart buy showing a slight diff in "peak" readings.................... but this dracula doesn't even HAVE a heart :D [b/]


Mixxer, that was good one. I am an EMC Engineer and that was good :)

John, i know our history hasn't been great, but i want you to know that your pipe performed extremely well and i'm not hear to slam your hard work- i commend it. the first designs in engineering are always improved upon, as should be on all exhaust systems designs- including yours. You have already set the stage on your patents to change the pipe industry direction forever. on a stock 450 bore your pipe produced the most torque- and torque always wins. just like you've said John [b]"the early tq curve always wins since it "jumps" out to an early lead under the higher load of the start and by the time the slightly higher (if any) peak hp hits, the deal is already done in the world of dyno drag racing. you feel torque as "response" when you are actually riding a machine and also a broader flatter tq curve is much easier on rider control\fatigue issues" [b/] ....then that would mean that my stroker out performed all torque numbers produced yesterday and should win the race even ticking across the line. not bad for an engine that wasn't broken in yet (tight) and ticking like mad on idle! Unfortunately, not everyone builds an engine for max torque, some build for max hp. I am a little confused though, i thought this pipe was to produce max power and not be a max torque design. Anyway, yesterday was a time for new directions, and you have been up front leading the way for pipe manufactures to quit pulling the publics legs so much. Once again thank you. Last, it's time for you to quit being such a hater towards Harlen and me. i think it was DN1911 who said "it time to drop our grudges and just get along". I'm not saying you have to like or agree- just get along. we can agree to disagree on things. The most impressive thing out of yesterdays event, other than the effort wpp put forth, was the fact that ppl from all over the net came together at one place and had a ball. not bickering no slamming, just smiles.

peace out. good luck with your ventures.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Bad Habit
I might not have been clear about this in my previous post. The 170 main was installed as a base line attempt. When it read good with the A/Fr, it was rightfully declared as required. If you read my previous post about jetting leaner with the PC, I think you can see what I am getting at. Time being what it was, I understand why you guys would not have wanted to change the jetting for it considering what the A/Fr said. If the 155 was installed per the instruction sheet, I'm confident that it would have appeared as "required" as well from the A/Fr.

true on the stock bore, but on the 530 and (i think) 520 a/f was measured with the PC installed. the jetting was extremely close to the other pipes tested on each big bore. this no change could be due to the high volume throughput on the big bores.

[tdsongster]

Other then 28cc over your 502EX, what did this get you, except a huge whole in the pocket book?

[wppracing]

Jetting specs per the PC instruction sheet state as follows:
175main jet stock compression , 170main jet 13:1 compression , 165main jet 13.5:1 compression
No where does it say 155.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by tdsongster
Other then 28cc over your 502EX, what did this get you, except a huge whole in the pocket book?

more hp (just the start) and a better highly technical highly advanced 450R to boot! when i get on my 502 it feels like i'm on a tank compared to the 450R (suspension and ride feel)
;)

not to mention that i feel great when i'm into the engine turning wrenches like i was when i split the case and built from the bottom end up. a huge learning experience tearing into HONDA's new engine. money thing is never comfortable, but if you want to play you have to pay!

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by wppracing
Jetting specs per the PC instruction sheet state as follows:
175main jet stock compression , 170main jet 13:1 compression , 165main jet 13.5:1 compression
No where does it say 155.

I'll retract that part of my early statement as I was looking at the jetting for the FCR carb, which states 155-160.

[kazpr]

Brian do you have any port work yet? Thanks alot Scott

[chad502ex]

here is wpp 450R on the dyno

[chad502ex]

here's 370kingR (aka Gary) on the dyno

[BOONE450R]

Let me try to Paint a Clearer picture!

1. WB carbon
2. Stealth Charger
3. Sparks
4. R.E.
5. Pulse Charger*
6. N-Motion
7. HMF
8. Baldwin
9. HMF W/QC

*the Pulse Charger never came back down to 40hp before hitting the rev limiter.

This is as close is i could get by reading those graphs.
http://img233.exs.cx/img233/8751/untitled18vy.jpg http://img233.exs.cx/img233/9941/untitled28pg.jpg

[chad502ex]

great info Boone

[kgbg]

tooshe' u got me Kam!
You know that was just an attempt at humor right?

I am not out to get you, I am over that ***** long ago, lets figure out a way for me to roost some coal with you and you roosting sand with me!:)

Those graphs validate my opinion of the ride I took yesterday.

That WPP 450 looks good! You guys worked your butts off and did a great job. Thanks again.

[Pappy]

build me a pipe that makes great power but is as quiet as stock and id pay tripple what they cost now.:(

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by kgbg
You know that was just an attempt at humor right?

I am not out to get you, I am over that ***** long ago, lets figure out a way for me to roost some coal with you and you roosting sand with me!:)

Those graphs validate my opinion of the ride I took yesterday.

That WPP 450 looks good! You guys worked your butts off and did a great job. Thanks again.

that's kewl- no worries

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
damn ktom,you have a total of 3 post and there all about getting the torque numbers from chad..im sure if he can get them and post them he will..just take it easy for alittle bit and see what he can come up with..:)

mike

hey mike look what i found in my 502 folder. this was my friends dyno results. we have identical motors then (502) as we do now (530R). now he is adding turbo to his 530R. can't wait to see those numbers.

sorry not 78ft/lbs- really 75.4ft/lbs of torque. oh well guess i wasn't precise was I?

[brif]

Originally posted by wppracing
Jetting specs per the PC instruction sheet state as follows:
175main jet stock compression , 170main jet 13:1 compression , 165main jet 13.5:1 compression
No where does it say 155.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/tuffguy/2003_0107_010147.jpg

[Ramsus]

http://img210.exs.cx/img210/751/arf58my.jpg

poppycock

[mikes450r]

hey chad i never doubted you..i was just tired of see that guy type the samething over and over..

mike

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
hey chad i never doubted you..i was just tired of see that guy type the samething over and over..

mike

yea i know. i wanted you to be able to see that is why i replied to your post

[mikes450r]

the torque on that must be insane...i could really imagine it ripping your arms off...

[Pappy]

i wanna ride it:macho all i heard was the mofo will yank the wheels in 5th going down hill:D

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
the torque on that must be insane...i could really imagine it ripping your arms off...

thats funny it does feel like my hands drag the ground after riding a weekend in PA on the 502 LOL

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Pappy
i wanna ride it:macho all i heard was the mofo will yank the wheels in 5th going down hill:D

Pappy- i want you to ride it and you will; especially after i put back the 3 missing hp from the valve train issue and install another 3 more hp on a 48mm carb! it really does do the 5th gear wheelie on Harlens hill going down too! ;) you ever see that hill? made me cry,... :D or was that cause i was flying idk hehe

[Pappy]

i read this thread and the info posted.....and continually im reminded of what a well known builder expressed to me on his dyno opinions....

"if i get even close to what i think the engine should pull on the first dyno runs im happy, that usually means there is more hp left hiding that i can go find"

if its in there im sure it will be tweaked out.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Pappy
i read this thread and the info posted.....and continually im reminded of what a well known builder expressed to me on his dyno opinions....

"if i get even close to what i think the engine should pull on the first dyno runs im happy, that usually means there is more hp left hiding that i can go find"

if its in there im sure it will be tweaked out.

hey Pappy, who is the well known engine builder you quote?

[Pappy]

ill keep his identity to myself. i prefer to listen and learn then use thier knowledge to make me look smart:devil: if i start spouting names then they may clam up and id be lost:D

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Pappy
ill keep his identity to myself. i prefer to listen and learn then use thier knowledge to make me look smart:devil: if i start spouting names then they may clam up and id be lost:D

i like the quote, it gave me motivation to drive forward some more. thanks. i respect your decision to "clam up" on us. :D

[Pappy]

i admit, when it comes to mechanics i lack the knowledge id like to possess.

in my own expierences with my drag cars, the first trip to the track would net a baseline. usually on a new engine i could easily squeeze better time slips with normal tweaking. i once even had a mathmatical formula based on estimated horsepower/car weight that i used to bait myself with. if the equation equaled a 10.30 pass and i was only pulling 11.50's i knew i had more power to hunt down.

i know it isnt related to the dyno pulls or this thread, just a bit of expierence from someone with many win lights and tons of trophies:cool:

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by kgbg
You know that was just an attempt at humor right?

I am not out to get you, I am over that ***** long ago, lets figure out a way for me to roost some coal with you and you roosting sand with me!:)

hey Kam, no worries :D

what ya mean about figuring out a way to roost together? Serious? Are we close enough on the map to ride one weekend? I'm not sure where you ride, but i was thinking i'd like to take the 530R with my friend and his 530RT to Glamis this year,...

:macho
:D

chad502ex.com

[kgbg]

hey Kam, no worries
Come to 4SW in glamis next year. Or bring that turbo to a 600 foot hill of sand in Utah and really let it stretch its legs.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by kgbg
Come to 4SW in glamis next year. Or bring that turbo to a 600 foot hill of sand in Utah and really let it stretch its legs.

well i've heard alot about Utah and Glamis. we are making a trip this year out west. i'll keep you informed and ask that you let me know dates of events.

thanks Kam!

[chad502ex]

wow, alot of ppl were interested in the pipe shootout event!

[ktom300]

Originally posted by chad502ex
hey mike look what i found in my 502 folder. this was my friends dyno results. we have identical motors then (502) as we do now (530R). now he is adding turbo to his 530R. can't wait to see those numbers.

sorry not 78ft/lbs- really 75.4ft/lbs of torque. oh well guess i wasn't precise was I?


That Dyno graph looks likes it came from a John Deere tractor. When do you shift? At 3400 RPM? What did the graph look like at 6,000 RPM? I'm not a Dyno reading guru but it kind of looks like you ruined the bike for anything but stump pulling in the backyard and tractor pulls at the arena. Assuming that the tranny and clutch could even hold up to those numbers. I guess it's one of those I'd have to see it to believe it deals.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by ktom300
That Dyno graph looks likes it came from a John Deere tractor. When do you shift? At 3400 RPM? What did the graph look like at 6,000 RPM? I'm not a Dyno reading guru but it kind of looks like you ruined the bike for anything but stump pulling in the backyard and tractor pulls at the arena. Assuming that the tranny and clutch could even hold up to those numbers. I guess it's one of those I'd have to see it to believe it deals.

believe what you want

[86atc250r]

hey mike look what i found in my 502 folder. this was my friends dyno results. we have identical motors then (502) as we do now (530R). now he is adding turbo to his 530R. can't wait to see those numbers.

sorry not 78ft/lbs- really 75.4ft/lbs of torque. oh well guess i wasn't precise was I?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ktom300
That Dyno graph looks likes it came from a John Deere tractor. When do you shift? At 3400 RPM? What did the graph look like at 6,000 RPM? I'm not a Dyno reading guru but it kind of looks like you ruined the bike for anything but stump pulling in the backyard and tractor pulls at the arena. Assuming that the tranny and clutch could even hold up to those numbers. I guess it's one of those I'd have to see it to believe it deals.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



believe what you want

Sorry to rehash this old post, but I think there's an issue here that needs addressed...

Believe what he wants?

Chad, Chad, Chad.....

You >>>>CAN'T<<<< honestly believe that a 400EX based engine like that is developing 75 ft/lbs torque at 3000 RPM can you?

Please tell me you're sharper than that.

Next time, tell your dyno operator to set the number of cylinders correctly - your torque numbers will be more realistic and so will the operating RPMs.

Pretty wierd how the run ends at 8800.. err... I mean 4400 RPM, eh?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
Sorry to rehash this old post, but I think there's an issue here that needs addressed...

Believe what he wants?

Chad, Chad, Chad.....

You >>>>CAN'T<<<< honestly believe that a 400EX based engine like that is developing 75 ft/lbs torque at 3000 RPM can you?

Please tell me you're sharper than that.

Next time, tell your dyno operator to set the number of cylinders correctly - your torque numbers will be more realistic and so will the operating RPMs.

Pretty wierd how the run ends at 8800.. err... I mean 4400 RPM, eh?

Here you are back to start more crap. Is that all you got? Didn't you get my last "exposed middle" post?

I should have enabled "ignore" on your call-sign and the PC clan along time ago. Your eyes are still glazed over from the hypnotic trance john's got you under and the sight of my dynos. WAKE UP FOOL!

MY NAME IS GABE, MY MASTER IS JOHN, PC IS BEST, EVERY ELSE IS BAD, NO-ONE CAN DO BETTER, I HAVE NOT DONE BETTER, BASH CHAD, BASH CHAD, BASH CHAD!!!

Gabe you are the only one left still causing issues. Weren't you taught that if you do not have anything nice to say, do not say it at all? Why can't you just agree to disagree like the other have and not present yourself as all knowing. can't you just move on with your trance and just remove the last part>>>>BASH CHAD BASH CHAD BASH CHAD!

these runs (yes i have more sheets too with 75ft/lbs!) were setup to dial in a Lectron Powerjet carb and was measured at the rear wheels not at the crank. Gabe, if you knew anything about a Lectron (or 77mm strokers) you would realize that those carbs do not have an excellerator pump like FCR's do. excellerator pumps wets the motor down low with a spash of fuel to richen the lean low end condition that the 400 engine develops off idle. Lectrons have metering rods and was/still used on the 502. The torque that was generated was because the metering rod was turned too far out and caused an extreme lean condition. Four strokes permit the A/F to be as lean on low R's without damage to the engine. It's not until the revs start to climb that lean condition kills. I'm not saying off scale A/F is good at these rpms, but the leaner you run down low the more torque you will develop. These runs were stopped at 4500 to dial in the low range and not used to adjust the top end (powerjet response). That is why the dynos stopped at 4500 Gaybriel (sp?)! I already have top end response curves and needed additional graph resolution in the low end range- this is why the runs stopped at 4500.

Believe what you want Gabe. i really do not care what you think. i responded to your dig so others could benefit and understand. It's clear you never will. I've debated and wasted enough time from you. exposed middle.

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by chad502ex
I should have enabled "ignore" on your call-sign and the PC clan along time ago. Your eyes are still glazed over from the hypnotic trance john's got you under and the sight of my dynos. WAKE UP FOOL!

MY NAME IS GABE, MY MASTER IS JOHN, PC IS BEST, EVERY ELSE IS BAD, NO-ONE CAN DO BETTER, I HAVE NOT DONE BETTER, BASH CHAD, BASH CHAD, BASH CHAD!!!

i responded to your dig so others could benefit and understand. It's clear you never will.

I feel the need to respond to this Chad.......

First off, the "PC Clan" that you refer to and "the hypnotic trance john's got you under" is also aimed at me, since I own a PC. Frankly, this is insulting the intelligence of every person that knows (for a fact) that the PC is a unique exhaust. You honestly think that we are all too stupid to think for ourselves? Give me a break. We (the PC Clan) are proponents of it because we can understand how it works, what it does, and have the grey matter to dissect truth from fiction. If you look beyond the peak hp numbers on an accurate dyno graph, you can begin to see the bigger picture. Look at the bar graphs that Boone put together, they begin to paint a better picture of where the benefits are.

I'm not hear to try and explain what the PC's benefits are, but it is necessary to explain the truth. If your intentions are "so others could benefit and understand", then make sure you understand what accurate information is. You created the poll so everyone could chime in with what they perceived the "best" pipe is from the dyno shootout. You also need to explain that there is no way possible to run 9 pipes in 2 hours and have it be an accurate way to determine what each pipes capabilities are. I'm not only speaking for the PC, but for all the pipes.....none of them can get a fair shake under those circumstances.

Someone made a comment about all the "but this and but that". Of course many of us questioned the results, and only after our probing did the full story finally come out.....that the testing was flawed. It was not questioned because the PC didn't "win", but it was apparent early on that things were not what they seemed. If it was wrong to question those results, then I guess it's equally wrong to question manufacturers claims? Same thing isn't it? Why are these types of shootouts even necessary then? Using the results from those tests to determine what is the "best" is like teaching a solider how to shoot a gun, but not how to reload it. You have to give ALL the information before you can say someone has what they need.

[86atc250r]

Chad - you can be quite a character.

I'm not here or anywhere else to "cause problems" and I'm going to ignore some of your more ridiculous comments above as that's the sort of thing I'd expect out of someone in their teens, not a grown man.

I've posted on messageboards for years and my purpose has ALWAYS been to share knowledge, dispel bad information, and help people understand why bad information is bad information.

I'm not the only one left "bashing" - bashing would to attack you with with numerous half truths twisted to fit my agenda - that's not what I'm doing at all. I'm simply pointing out a very big flaw in a dyno run you are presenting as legit.

Maybe I'm one of the only ones left who doesn't fear your backlash so much as to not call you on it when you post questionable info (whether you realize it or not). You can do all the name calling & innuendo making you like, you won't scare me off, because I have nothing to hide.

Anyhow, back to the point... That dyno run you posted is flawed and in a way that should be obvious to someone with dyno experience like yourself. Worse yet, no one mentioned any of the problems with it (which is why I felt compelled to post).

A typical 45hp race prepped 400EX engine delivers around 15 ft/lbs of torque at 3500 RPM. You're saying that a simple 10% increase in stroke length, a Lectron carb, and a 17:1 AFR can increase that OVER 500% and TOTALLY alter the complete character of the engine - I, personally see a few problems with that.

Do you know what lean conditions do to power on a 4 stroke? I do, and making ridiculous amounts of torque is not what it does. I've seen it on the dyno, I've tested in on my own bikes, and I've dialed in numerous automotive EFI applications where I have real-time fueling control and feedback. In no case does torque start going ridiculously high as you lean toward the high teens in AFR - after all, you can't develop power without fuel.

Do you know why accelerator pumps exist? It's not to "wet down the engine" and take away torque.

Why was the AFR so lean on your buddy's engine and it didn't pop a hole in it's piston or run away into a fit of severe detonation? Because the same inexperienced dyno operator that set the "degrees between firing" incorrectly didn't position the AFR probe correctly and it was sucking air, showing a false lean condition. Probe placement on a single cyl 4 stroke is critical if you don't want to introduce foreign oxygen into the system.

Go ahead and put me on "ignore" - it's your loss, not mine. Don't consider it "bashing", consider it an education. Also don't be so blinded by your dislike for others that it keeps you from seeing the obvious that's right in front of you.

BTW --- go have your buddy's bike re-dyno'd and be sure to tell them this time that the 400EX is a "wasted spark" setup that fires every 360 degrees, not every 720 degrees. Then see if you don't come up with a run more inline with the power developed by a 400EX based engine - not a modified 100 inch Harley V Twin (two cyls, each with around 115mm stroke).

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Bad Habit
I feel the need to respond to this Chad.......

First off, the "PC Clan" that you refer to and "the hypnotic trance john's got you under" is also aimed at me, since I own a PC. Frankly, this is insulting the intelligence of every person that knows (for a fact) that the PC is a unique exhaust. You honestly think that we are all too stupid to think for ourselves? Give me a break. We (the PC Clan) are proponents of it because we can understand how it works, what it does, and have the grey matter to dissect truth from fiction. If you look beyond the peak hp numbers on an accurate dyno graph, you can begin to see the bigger picture. Look at the bar graphs that Boone put together, they begin to paint a better picture of where the benefits are.

I'm not hear to try and explain what the PC's benefits are, but it is necessary to explain the truth. If your intentions are "so others could benefit and understand", then make sure you understand what accurate information is. You created the poll so everyone could chime in with what they perceived the "best" pipe is from the dyno shootout. You also need to explain that there is no way possible to run 9 pipes in 2 hours and have it be an accurate way to determine what each pipes capabilities are. I'm not only speaking for the PC, but for all the pipes.....none of them can get a fair shake under those circumstances.

Someone made a comment about all the "but this and but that". Of course many of us questioned the results, and only after our probing did the full story finally come out.....that the testing was flawed. It was not questioned because the PC didn't "win", but it was apparent early on that things were not what they seemed. If it was wrong to question those results, then I guess it's equally wrong to question manufacturers claims? Same thing isn't it? Why are these types of shootouts even necessary then? Using the results from those tests to determine what is the "best" is like teaching a solider how to shoot a gun, but not how to reload it. You have to give ALL the information before you can say someone has what they need.

you'll see more later tonight Dan!

[mikes450r]

http://www.trx450r.org/forum/uploads/post-696-1105671116.gif

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
http://www.trx450r.org/forum/uploads/post-696-1105671116.gif

LOL!

hey mike just got back from loaded dyno and "twisted" back the cam while i was there. I was able to pull more out of the 530- i was really happy when i left. next week i'll probally get a few more too i'm betting. not trying to brag here, just wanted to show everyone that these engines love to run retarded cam timing. today i ran -18 degrees and the engine wants more too.

i'll post the dyno's later for everyone to see the improvements.

[mikes450r]

i have a retarded sparks cam for sale...http://www.trx450r.org/forum/uploads/post-696-1105671032.gif
i figured you could get more out of than that...since you had problems last time...good to hear it turned out better this time..

mike

did you go with brian...

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
i have a retarded sparks cam for sale...http://www.trx450r.org/forum/uploads/post-696-1105671032.gif
i figured you could get more out of than that...since you had problems last time...good to hear it turned out better this time..

mike

did you go with brian...

thanks mike.

brian was in VA another state away from MD. i ran the loaded dyno, brian ran the Mobile Dyno (free wheel).

[ktom300]

If no one else in here will call your numbers BS I will. Keep on spouting your false information and fake/altered dyno sheets. If that run was in fact to tune your low end torque that's fine. But I see no reason to take the RPM's any higher as your 502 was clearly done at 4200.
Common sense says you're full of crap. The average rider probably starts slipping the clutch around 2500 to 3000 rpm to take off. With your 502, he'd be at max torque a few hundred RPM later? What good would that even be?
I have no affiliation with anyone on this or any other site. I just know you're full of crap and I'm tired of people sucking your balls instead of saying it.
You should really sell your design to Hyster or one of the other forklift manufacturers. You're clearly on to something.

[mikes450r]

http://www.trx450r.org/forum/uploads/post-696-1105671626.gif

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by ktom300
If no one else in here will call your numbers BS I will. Keep on spouting your false information and fake/altered dyno sheets. If that run was in fact to tune your low end torque that's fine. But I see no reason to take the RPM's any higher as your 502 was clearly done at 4200.
Common sense says you're full of crap. The average rider probably starts slipping the clutch around 2500 to 3000 rpm to take off. With your 502, he'd be at max torque a few hundred RPM later? What good would that even be?
I have no affiliation with anyone on this or any other site. I just know you're full of crap and I'm tired of people sucking your balls instead of saying it.
You should really sell your design to Hyster or one of the other forklift manufacturers. You're clearly on to something.

lol- i admit that was funny! :)

those runs were used as a tool to dial in the low range- that's it; it was used as a tool just like a wrench is used.

i suppose when you see my 530r runs you'll claim BS too right? this time I have video to go along with plots

[ktom300]

Actually your 530 numbers sound about right. If anything, they're lower than I would expect but you're in unchartered territory so I will excuse it.
I'm only speaking to your 502.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by ktom300
Actually your 530 numbers sound about right. If anything, they're lower than I would expect but you're in unchartered territory so I will excuse it.
I'm only speaking to your 502.

my 530 numbers sound right so you'll excuse it? heh- you havn't even seen my new 530r numbers obtained today!
:macho

i've got plots and video that's posted on my website

[chad502ex]

bling!

[chad502ex]

bling bling

[MIKE400EX]

Did you check the piston to valve clearance after retarding it 18 degrees?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by MIKE400EX
Did you check the piston to valve clearance after retarding it 18 degrees?

hey mike.

i did on assemble

[trx450r05101]

thanks for the posting your results...probably gonna go with the rossier(RE)...530R is mean......

[chad502ex]

thanks. i was able to find a few more today and next week a few more will be found too.

check out today results with dyno video and plots
on my website

http://www.chad502ex.com

[joe1l]

Very nice work Chad!!! Looks like your combo is making some nasty nasty power!!! :D

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by joe1l
Very nice work Chad!!! Looks like your combo is making some nasty nasty power!!! :D

Thanks Joe. there still a few left in that stock carb with negative cam twist! LOL!

here is another plot to peak at.

Go to http://www.chad502ex.com
for dyno video and more plots.

[mikes450r]

Originally posted by chad502ex
bling bling

that motor looks sweet chad...

http://www.trx450r.org/forum/uploads/post-696-1105671348.gif

[Hammer trx450r]

Way to go chad, sweet #'s! When you get the cam all figured out let us know your take on it.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Hammer trx450r
Way to go chad, sweet #'s! When you get the cam all figured out let us know your take on it.

thanks Hammer, i will.

[mikes450r]

damn i didnt even notice how close to 60 you were. man can you even ride that missle. that kicks *****..are you going to take it to 4sw next year

mike

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
damn i didnt even notice how close to 60 you were. man can you even ride that missle. that kicks *****..are you going to take it to 4sw next year

mike

this year will be fun :D

[catch22blaster]

cool:cool: :cool:

[catch22blaster]

cool:cool: :cool:

[catch22blaster]

cool:cool: :cool:

[catch22blaster]

cool:cool: :cool:

[catch22blaster]

sorry that was my cuz clicking it so many times he wants to see me get 100 posts before he leaves very sorry

[WhiteZee]

chad, are you planning on racing any GNCCs this year? if so which ones and what class?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by WhiteZee
chad, are you planning on racing any GNCCs this year? if so which ones and what class?

Zee, i'm not sure what this year will bring. I do not think i'll be into racing a whole dedicated season in anything. I think i will be into trying a "mixed bag" of everything like sanctioned drag, sanctioned hill climbing, fsw, glamis, and anything that's announced and i can attend and try that week. Both honestly, i'm not a dedicated racer. Are you offering to race my ride? LOL.


hey zee, i'm not trying to brag or anything- just would like to hear your response...
i've been told that a 45mm carb on the 530 could add another 3 hp over stock, and with a few more than 18 degrees negative cam timing/fuel/carb/better pipe than X6/ and on top of the already 59hp do you think the 530 will hit 65rwhp?

[WhiteZee]

im sure going to a larger fcr will give you a decent gain, i know the stock carb is a limiting part once you start making those numbers. as for breaking 65hp, it all depends. your dyno could say 65hp, and gt thunders could say 55hp. you can change the dyno program to read any peak hp you want. as for retarding the cam, i would have no idea. i am wondering how much its safe to retard though, and still have a reliable motor. i have been wondering what kind of fuel you are using while on the dyno with the 530?

also, i heard that your second set of dyno numbers were performed on a loaded dyno, which is different then the first dyno you used. i was wondering if there is any difference in the peak hp numbers between the two, i have heard a loaded dyno reads a few hp higher?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by WhiteZee
im sure going to a larger fcr will give you a decent gain, i know the stock carb is a limiting part once you start making those numbers. as for breaking 65hp, it all depends. your dyno could say 65hp, and gt thunders could say 55hp. you can change the dyno program to read any peak hp you want. as for retarding the cam, i would have no idea. i am wondering how much its safe to retard though, and still have a reliable motor. i have been wondering what kind of fuel you are using while on the dyno with the 530?

yea, the stock carb is a limiter for sure. just wondering what your reply was going to be.

never seen 10hp difference on different dyno with same engine being tested even with different operator at the helm. What change to dyno program are you referring to?

retard cam timing doesn't change the reliability as long as the intake doesn't open after TDC (these 450's love retard cam timing big time).

I was using C12 with 190 main and 12.5:1 compression


also, i heard that your second set of dyno numbers were performed on a loaded dyno, which is different then the first dyno you used. i was wondering if there is any difference in the peak hp numbers between the two, i have heard a loaded dyno reads a few hp higher?

this is the way i understand it:
the first dyno run was "free wheel" (~1000lb drum). the second dyno was "loaded" with 3000lb drums. a loaded dyno is more true to represent real-world loading than what the "free-wheel" inertia dyno would provide. The loaded dyno is designed for vehicles and may be considered to much loading. the difference between the two was ~2hp. I verified this by comparing the best free-wheel dyno run compared to first run on loaded dyno. However, the first free-wheel dyno runs the 530 had slight valve train issues so its hard to compare with that crap. I did not post those comparisions, but have the plots to illustrate if needed.

engines are designed to run under load and output more power than running freewheel. This saturday is the third and last dyno runs (until new carb and pipe) and will be on a free wheel like the first run so comparision will be similar. good or bad results, ill post either way.

[chad502ex]

ok final numbers with -18 degrees cam timing on stock carb:

17.7% increase in displacement over stock and $3000 gets 78% gain in hp and ~48% increase more in torque

"free-wheel" with std 1.0 correction with same engine setup as "loaded" got the following peak:
57.2hp/39 torque

"loaded" dyno with std 1.0 correction with same engine setup as "free-wheel" got the following peak:
58.5hp/43 torque

my point is not to be :macho , but to indicate the differences measured between "loaded" and "free-wheel" dynos and to stress that 17% increase in displacement equals 78% increase in HP and almost 50% more torque with the added bells and whisles.

great ratios here

any input?

BTW; -18 cam timing had more hp and torque output than -22,-15,-12, and -8 cam timing.

[chad502ex]

here's a plot of the difference between -18 degrees cam timing and -22 degrees cam timing.

-22 cam timing went down enough to see that with a mid-to-top Megacycle cam (x2) the power output was max at -18

if an X3 Megacycle cam or Misto top end cam was installed, timing would be completely different than mid cam timing.

hopefully everyone installing a bigger cam profile than HRC is degree'n in their setup on the dyno. for my 530, degree'n in pulled an extra 8hp and +4 more on torque too!

until the bigger carb and new pipe intall, good luck and happy building! :D

what was the best pipe for the 530 and the 520...also what in your opinion is best for a 500cc bored bike? ive got the sparks big core and plan on going to 500cc jw if that is the setup

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
what was the best pipe for the 530 and the 520...also what in your opinion is best for a 500cc bored bike? ive got the sparks big core and plan on going to 500cc jw if that is the setup

i'm still trying to figure that question out

:confused:

Originally posted by chad502ex
i'm still trying to figure that question out

:confused:

lol :D

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
what was the best pipe for the 530 and the 520...also what in your opinion is best for a 500cc bored bike? ive got the sparks big core and plan on going to 500cc jw if that is the setup

i'm torn between the HMF or RE (and not because of the shootout either).

really, i thought RE seems to perform and sound the best on the 520.

my 530 wasn't happy that day with valve issues, so my pipe comparision between the Sparks, PC, and Baldwin wasn't really what i wanted to compare. i would love to see the comparison now after i got the timing worked out! anyway, I'm not happy with the Sparks at all on my 530. I'm dying to sell it to get another,...

Originally posted by chad502ex
i'm torn between the HMF or RE (and not because of the shootout either).

really, i thought RE seems to perform and sound the best on the 520.

my 530 wasn't happy that day with valve issues, so my pipe comparision between the Sparks, PC, and Baldwin wasn't really what i wanted to compare. i would love to see the comparison now after i got the timing worked out! anyway, I'm not happy with the Sparks at all on my 530. I'm dying to sell it to get another,...

you have the big core correct? also im thinking its the factor of back pressure, because notice how the HMF quite performed better then the normal HMF, while the sparks has litterally no back pressure, im thinking when they come out with the quite core for the sparks, that it will make substantial gains over the original sparks

i would still like to see Sparks vs HMF vs Duncan vs RE on a 500cc or a 470cc bike, i think that would be pretty close, ive always liked how sparks performed on my 400ex, so i bought the big core for the 450, was the one u tested in the shootouts a big core or not? if no then that may have made a big difference, i think it does pretty well on my 450 personally, stock with a k&n, the #1 pro guy in my circut runs HMF, but i dunno, its more about rider skill when it comes down to racing then it is pure raw hp, id still like to see the #'s from a 500cc or 470cc bike

[dunebuggie66]

what carb was on that 520 by nmotion. i am getting a 41mm fcr with mine.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by dunebuggie66
what carb was on that 520 by nmotion. i am getting a 41mm fcr with mine.

stock

[Hammer trx450r]

Hey chad how much do u think the stock exhaust would knock down your #'s? I just put my stock back on(getting sick of the noise) and im curious how much am i chocking it off

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Hammer trx450r
Hey chad how much do u think the stock exhaust would knock down your #'s? I just put my stock back on(getting sick of the noise) and im curious how much am i chocking it off

here's my evil mind clicking here (just kidding tho)::devil:

well, to answer your question, I'd refer to my graph when i had that stock looking pipe installed with strange endcap and only made 48hp. Oh that wasn't stock!


Seriously, i have no idea on your question. Just playing out loud and not with you.

:D

Chad

[Hammer trx450r]

please chad i've been around long enough to know what your getting at. Be nice!

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Hammer trx450r
please chad i've been around long enough to know what your getting at. Be nice!

ok, your right.

I'll be nice.

Anyway Hammer, I still don't know what the stock pipe would output on my setup, but i would think it would be only slightly worse than what i have now!

:)

Originally posted by chad502ex
ok, your right.

I'll be nice.

Anyway Hammer, I still don't know what the stock pipe would output on my setup, but i would think it would be only slightly worse than what i have now!

:)

slightly...lol

[4Q2]

Someone clue me in if I'm wrong but the Baldwin exhaust is a HMF with a Baldwin sticker on it, so how could they be very far off from each other, at least that's the talk around here and I'm only 2 hours from Baldwin and 1 from HMF.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 4Q2
Someone clue me in if I'm wrong but the Baldwin exhaust is a HMF with a Baldwin sticker on it, so how could they be very far off from each other, at least that's the talk around here and I'm only 2 hours from Baldwin and 1 from HMF.

i have no clue- really if they are the same. maybe the canisters are same, i wouldn't know, but the tips are different and color is different too! heh





i think they are different tho!

[hoopd450]

i have a baldwin pipe and a guy i ride with alot has an HMF. They are the same pipe with a different end cap and sticker. Put them side by side and there's no doubt about it.

[Mobile Dyno]

Yes, Baldwin pipes are made by HMF but they are made to Baldwins Specs. So they are different

[4Q2]

One more question, how loud is the HMF compared to the Yosh system? I hear they have a different sound with the HMF being a deeper note, My Yosh that I sold my son sounded like a cap gun, as far as DB's go how do they compare? Thanks

[dunebuggie66]

so if the 520 had a stock carb, how much more hp do you reckon it would get with a 41mm fcr?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by dunebuggie66
so if the 520 had a stock carb, how much more hp do you reckon it would get with a 41mm fcr?

no more hp, but maybe a little torque increase on bottom end. These 520's and larger require 45mm

[4Q2]

I just got off of the phone with Dan from HMF and he assures me that the Baldwin system is the same as the HMF other than the turn down...well and that nice Baldwin sticker. :D

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 4Q2
I just got off of the phone with Dan from HMF and he assures me that the Baldwin system is the same as the HMF other than the turn down...well and that nice Baldwin sticker. :D

wow, thanks for that valuable information. which is cheapest?

[4Q2]

$489 retail from Baldwin and $450 retail from HMF, BUT my local dealer quoted me $386 for the HMF with my discount and since I don't see Baldwin discounting his I'm headed for the HMF. HMF did say they would do $400 if I pick it up from them plus tax but it's an hour away and more money.

[chad502ex]

wow, great prices. better than $550 for sparks

[mikes450r]

hey chad sorry to get off your topic here but i know you will post back here..

i just installed my hrc cam and 13;1 piston and rossier pipe .i had the crf cam and sparks jet kit and filter and x6..

im also running straight 110 octane in it..I just started it up after about 13 kicks..It also hasnt ran for about 2 months or a little more..it sounded good when i was reving it up but when i would let off the gas it would just sputter and die..

do you think i need to change the jetting or something...
let me know what you think..
also is there anything special i should do to break the cam and piston in...

thanks for the help

mike

Originally posted by chad502ex
wow, great prices. better than $550 for sparks

u payed that much! man i got mine for a lot less then u, and i got the big core :blah:

[450ex]

chad i have a setup that i want you to look at..

not done but going together

13.8:1 piston
mysto cam
web cam adj. cam sprocket
stock valves
kibblewhite valve springs
port and polish
crf ignition and carb
rev box(not sure of brand yet)
sparks x6 ceramic
vp c12

what kind of horse power should i expect

i think after i get it together i will take it to a dyno

do you think the mysto cam is a good cam for stock bore

i am all top end racing right now

drag and big motocross tracks

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 450ex
chad i have a setup that i want you to look at..

not done but going together

13.8:1 piston
mysto cam
web cam adj. cam sprocket
stock valves
kibblewhite valve springs
port and polish
crf ignition and carb
rev box(not sure of brand yet)
sparks x6 ceramic
vp c12

what kind of horse power should i expect

i think after i get it together i will take it to a dyno

do you think the mysto cam is a good cam for stock bore

i am all top end racing right now

drag and big motocross tracks

nice. seems like good selection of parts here.

make sure you degree in that cam. Being that i'm not sure of the specs of the misto (max lift) i'd also verify thru Web or through claying in the piston for valve to piston clearance. the cam ramp up to ml on the intake could tag the piston if you dont check by degreeing in the cam. better safe then sorry is what i mean. i have pictures of claying in on my website:
http://www.chad502ex.com


49-52hp

hope this helps.

chad

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
u payed that much! man i got mine for a lot less then u, and i got the big core :blah:

yes, i'm sure. when i got my sparks, sparks was basically the only pipe available upon release of the 450r. in other words, i should have waited a little more, but if you wanta play you have to play.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
hey chad sorry to get off your topic here but i know you will post back here..

i just installed my hrc cam and 13;1 piston and rossier pipe .i had the crf cam and sparks jet kit and filter and x6..

im also running straight 110 octane in it..I just started it up after about 13 kicks..It also hasnt ran for about 2 months or a little more..it sounded good when i was reving it up but when i would let off the gas it would just sputter and die..

do you think i need to change the jetting or something...
let me know what you think..
also is there anything special i should do to break the cam and piston in...

thanks for the help

mike

sounds rich on slow, what is your entire jetting setup?

[450ex]

thanks chad

i have the degree kit also

do you think this motor will like retarded timing also

i also forgot to mention the adjustable timing plate for the ignition
do you have any thoughts about that and a good starting spot

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 450ex
thanks chad

i have the degree kit also

do you think this motor will like retarded timing also

i also forgot to mention the adjustable timing plate for the ignition
do you have any thoughts about that and a good starting spot

yes, this engine prefers negative timing- how much you'll have to find out!

adjustable timing plate, huh?

[mikes450r]

hey chad i have the sparks jet ket...i think i have a 185 in it with the needle on the 3rd clip....left the a/f screw same as stock

mike

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by mikes450r
hey chad i have the sparks jet ket...i think i have a 185 in it with the needle on the 3rd clip....left the a/f screw same as stock

mike

what slow?