Contraption on Ebay

[rneal]

These seem a little dangerous to me.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43974&item=4520520907&rd=1

These would be like using a lever to twist your frame!!!

[Tommy 17]

i've offically seen everything... :o

[rneal]

Here's a kit to put 400ex shocks on a 300ex...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43974&item=4520161005&rd=1

[sharkinthepool]

No thanks! I think a swift kick in the arse would be better for you than that.:rolleyes: :eek: some people will try anything. I am sure that is the way the 400 was "REALLY INTENDED TO BE WIDENED".

[markk]

HUH:huh

[Craig02]

lol

[beak7707]

I dont think I would trust my life with that.

[sickmojave]

on top of that he nails you for $30 to ship it. :huh :huh

[underpowered]

i have seen stuff like that for a 250EX and a300EX before, but never a 400EX. I wouldn't want to be the first guy to try it.

[RideRed250ex]

These would be like using a lever to twist your frame!!! [/B]

Either that IF the brackets help up, or your front wheel will wind up at your footpegs the first time you bump a tree! :huh

[beerock]

I see the kit as a feasible modification. HUB extenders are supposedly ffeasible but i would never do it.

this kit will help handleing because of the width but it will act completely different. the whole geometry of the frame is moved out wards while the a-arm length stays the same what this does is make the bike handle like a very wide frame with less actuating on the arms then Long travel arms. this makes the bike less off road friendly alot more sway will be involved on dirt then say a set of LT arms. BUT this could work good for flat track.

all it is is a cheap way to widen the bike it seems strong but i can bet if you hit something hard the metal will bend back. I think this is a good thing. see atvs have lots of sway, if the frame was widened it would make the sway of it less ON ROAD, but off road gives mroe sway because of uneven obstacles.

I think it will be a rough ride off road but if you can take the abuse it would definately go faster then a stock width 400ex

maybe not.

[sjc115]

The relationship of the a-arm pivots and the tie rod end piviots (at the stem) is drastically changed with that setup. The bump-steer must be uncontrolable with that kit installed!

[seatec]

i am leary fo people who have to tell you that they are quote "very honest"

[DEAL]

I like the paint job on the spindles and caliper .. thats truly top notch :rolleyes:

I emailed him saying:

That might be the most dangerous thing I have ever seen. Someone said it's like using a lever to twist your frame. Anyone who buys this product is going to bend their frame or get seriously injured. Common sense is to stay away from this product


and he said:

"Since I'm a mechanical engineer, you'll have to try to explain your thoughts to me in a little more logical terms. If you study the forces on the frame, you'll find your comments to be completely off the mark"

I gave him this link and told him to respond to our comments :cool:

[big-guy]

If anything, you want to move the pivot points toward the center of the vehicle and use longer arms to reduce scrub. I can't imagine this being useful for anything but oval racing where you don't need much suspension travel anyway. (or being a poser)

Anyone who wants to know how to get rich quick can just send me $1000 and I'll tell you how. :)

[rneal]

Engineer or Rocket Surgeon, it does not matter. Think back to high school physics and the study of a basic instrument called a lever and how it works. The greater the distance from the pivot point, the greater amount of force generated at the opposite end. By increasing the distance from the welds of the a-arm brackets to the pivot point of the a-arm you are increasing the "STRESS" applied to the true mounting point. (The welds that attach the factory bracket to the frame) If it doesn't tear the bracket from the frame it will twist the frame.

Not to mention a lateral impact. There is nothing to prevent the a-arm from distorting from front to back. There should be a collar around a long bolt that travels from front mount to the back mount preventing this movement. He is again putting all this stress on the welds of the factory brackets.

These things might function reasonably as long as you never bottom out a shock or sustain a lateral impact. This should be interesting with a 6” wider front end if you ride any trails at all.

[YLW400]

WTF is a rocket Surgeon?:huh It's an interesting idea, to say the least....Personally, I don't fell the load is placed on that bracket (really other that the weight of th machine) But you are creating a moment out farther from the frame... Where is Wilkin at? He is an engineer, is he not?

[Rootar]

Originally posted by big-guy
Anyone who wants to know how to get rich quick can just send me $1000 and I'll tell you how. :) [/B]

yea i wonder how that works

[rneal]

Originally posted by YLW400
WTF is a rocket Surgeon?:huh It's an interesting idea, to say the least....Personally, I don't fell the load is placed on that bracket (really other that the weight of th machine) But you are creating a moment out farther from the frame... Where is Wilkin at? He is an engineer, is he not?

It what you get if you combine a brain surgeon and a rocket scientist.

[YLW400]

lmao, I was just pulling your leg dude:D

[zephead400ex]

Originally posted by YLW400
... Where is Wilkin at? He is an engineer, is he not?

Yep...he'll set us all straight:D

[YLW400]

Or make us look like dumb *****es..:D

---ill psot this for him---


I'll even respond to the comments in the chat room thread...

"I am sure that is the way the 400 was "REALLY INTENDED TO BE WIDENED"."
- From my experience working for an "Original Equipment Manufacturer", the design engineers at Honda don't intend for the 400 and others to be modified. They're only responsible for the original vehicle's design. They are looking for high volume sales, and offering options is not something that appeals to them. You've seen how expensive just trying to buy parts from them can be. Suspension options from Honda would be price-prohibitive (not affordable).
"your front wheel will wind up at your footpegs the first time you bump a tree!"
- The brackets that hold the a-arms in place on the kits are made of 1/4" thick steel. There are a total of eight of them, and because of the a-arm welded structure, none of the brackets can move by themselves without distributing the load to the other brackets. This means there is a total of 2 inches of steel resisting rearward deflection. To make this even stronger, when the brackets are spread out over a distance (almost a foot from the front bracket to the rear bracket), this means that when the wheel is forced rearward, the a-arms create a rotational force that actually pulls outward on the front brackets and pushes inward on the rear brackets. This is incredibly stong and designed to be stronger than the stock a-arms in this condition. On a side note, I have hit some trees. :) Sometimes harder than I wanted to! But no failures.

- The comments from "beerock" are very good. He's actually very correct in what he says (except for the bending back scenario that I discussed above). Be careful to understand that he is saying the suspension from the kit would be less off-road friendly THAN LONG TRAVEL A-ARMS. This is true, but long travel a-arms do two things for you. They provide more wheel travel for suspension and they provide a wider stance. The widening kit gives you the wider stance, but since it has stock a-arms, the suspension travel is identical to stock. One point that I would share from our testing and racing with the widening kit, is that landing jumps is much better just because of the width. When you don't land perfectly square on all wheels, the wider stance makes the correction during landing less agressive, and feels a lot better to the rider (IN MY OPINION :) I have found the ride to be great an the motorcross tracks, and I credit that to the wider stance. If you go over a two foot tall burm on one side, the actual rotation of the rider is going to be less if the width is wider, this is fact that can be proven by simple triangle geometry. This helps on the track as you are going over uneven/varying terrain.

"The relationship of the a-arm pivots and the tie rod end piviots (at the stem) is drastically changed with that setup. The bump-steer must be uncontrolable with that kit installed!"
- From a geometry standpoint, the bump-steer is worse than a stock ATV and worse than what you would have with Long Travel A-arms. However, bumpsteer has not been an issue with any of the riders that have used the many kits that we've installed. The stock configuration of the Honda ATV's have some bump steer in them already because the a-arm supports are wider than the place where the tie rods attach. This stock configuration bump steer is undetectable. The widening kit makes it worse, but not significant compared to the overall geometry of the system. Bump steer causes drag on the wheels because as the suspension travels up and down, the wheels steer slightly different, which can slow down a race car on a track, but its actually much more difficult to detect on an ATV on a motorcross or flat oval track because of all the sliding and rough terrain. I'm putting together the facts and a geometry explanation of the effects of bump steer using the widening kit, which will be available soon on our website DiamondJCustoms.com.

I do hope that this helps the discussion. I'm not going to try to change everyone's minds with one email at a time, experience from the users will do a better job of that. I did want to send back some comments because I could tell from your emails that you sensed that some information was missing.

I don't prefer arguments, so if that's what your looking for, I'm not interested. I am quad-crazy, though, and if you want an extra opinion on something or maybe some engineering facts on an issue or problem, give me a shout anytime. DiamondJCustoms@yahoo.com


----interesting----

:chinese:

[YLW400]

Well, that was very cool of him to come on here and explain himself..:)

[markk]

Thanks for the info, I figgure that the kit sould be alright for application? The leverage is the same!

[sampleez]

one thing i thought of was the rear end. the bike's gonna look pretty strange with a +6 front end and at best, a +4 axle. i'd like to see one with that kit and a stock axle!!!!! it'd look like a combine :D :D :D i think it wouldn't be a bad idea for FT or TT, but you couldn't pay me enough to jump that setup. :eek2:

[brian-250]

What the hell?:huh :confused: :ermm:

[beerock]

Originally posted by sampleez
but you couldn't pay me enough to jump that setup. :eek2:

I'd jump it, maybe you need to grow a set of balls:p ;) j/k

[sampleez]

that must be it..........this pic says otherwise :blah: :devil:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid150/pa1d1b3f368c57cd1ef5ae2673b6e2573/f5e4d643.jpg
oh btw, it's a 70+ foot elevator, and the person taking the pic is about 6'6", and was standing on top of the jump, right beside the flagger stand. here's a side view.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid150/p293606200ab0037f65aae60dbe89e268/f5e4d62b.jpg