inside the 450r

[chad502ex]

not much to look at inside the cases is there?

a tranny (counter shaft, main shaft, gears and forks, and shift drum)

and crank and one way reed oil valve in bottom of case

that's it!

most of the engine parts on outside the cases on the left and right side of the engine

[coalroostr]

pix

[JDiablo]

looks nice and narly...lol that is yours?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 300exrida
looks nice and narly...lol that is yours?

yes it is. this was snapped before i put it together

[JDiablo]

watcha take it apart for?or should i say what have you done to it

[coalroostr]

updated

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 300exrida
watcha take it apart for?or should i say what have you done to it

well since you asked, i built a bored and stroked 530r

pics and details can be seen at my website

http://www.chad502ex.com

most have seen this already. i'm not trying to mention what i've done i'm trying to illustrate the interior of the 450r engine that's all.

[brandonpeake]

nice pics and info chad

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by brandonpeake
nice pics and info chad

anything for you guys!;)

[coalroostr]

i've added one more piece of info for ppl to see about installing the NMotion sleeve into the stock case. the big oval circle where the yellow text is the extra stock metal buildup that needs to be removed slightly to accomadate the larger NMotion sleeve. I used a 90 die grinder to whip out a bit and made sure that my sleeve dropped into the case without touching the sleeve. metals touching causes hot spotting to occur. hot spotting is bad. by the way, you don't have to split the cases to install the NMotion sleeve. you can remove this buildup while the motor is still installed in the frame. call NMotion for instructions before you start. they have this procedure worked out for most inclined ppl to do.

[kazpr]

Kick ARSE pics!!

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by kazpr
Kick ARSE pics!!

thanks

[exrider360]

did you leanr how to build it on yoru own or did you go to school for it. ve always wanted to build small motors and stuff but never know were to start

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by exrider360
did you leanr how to build it on yoru own or did you go to school for it. ve always wanted to build small motors and stuff but never know were to start

360,

i've learned from years of wrench turning from cars to motorcycles to 502 to 530. i am what you call a "garage" mechanic or tuner. I do not build professionally. I've seen some "professional" work and havn't been impressed in the attention to detail that i would offer my own. The "professional" work always looked rushed when examined thoughroughly. I understand that too cause its not their engine and they need to move on to the next to make more money. I like attention to details, so i take my time and never rush on builds. research, select quality components, measure and know tolerances, and torque as required when you build. Never be afraid ask for someones help or never be afraid to try.

As far as school, I did go to college for electrical engineering and physics. physics contains some engine fundamentals.

there is tuns of information to be learned everyday (as I see) and i am no where to understanding even a small piece of the big picture in engine building, but reading and always asking hard questions to others (even if the responses are wrong- you learn) is key to growing. Even if you try and don't succeed, the worst thing that could happen to you is that you would need to replace. BFD!

good luck and try!

[250rpilot]

chad, just by looking at the location of the crank pin, it looks to me like you could get a CONSIDERABLE amount of stroke added to that crank. have you and NMotion tried any really BIG strokers? or have you guys kept it on the low side for durability?

keeping in mind that head/piston clearance and piston/crank clearance are issues, as well as possible case trenching, of course:confused:

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 250rpilot
chad, just by looking at the location of the crank pin, it looks to me like you could get a CONSIDERABLE amount of stroke added to that crank. have you and NMotion tried any really BIG strokers? or have you guys kept it on the low side for durability?

keeping in mind that head/piston clearance and piston/crank clearance are issues, as well as possible case trenching, of course:confused:

pilot,

great question,....

tonight i'll post another couple pictures from my digital archive to answer you in further detail. the pictures will show the case limitations and crank limitations too. Falicon can produce a so-called crf 5.6mm billet drop in crank using a lift ring on a two ring piston design. the reason why my crank limitation was +4mm was because i selected a Falicon Knife Rod with larger base diameter that works with my 3 ring piston design. plenty of meat on the bottom diameter of the rod as you'll see stuck out a few mm from the bottom of the crank journels. However, before I even started the stroker I talked to Falicon on the phone and they informed me that through R&D they found that the optimum bore/stroke ratio for the 450r engine is 99mm bore and +5mm stroke (532cc). optium bore stroke ratio can provide more potential hp than an over stroked engine. the goal for me was to own a torque'r (502ex) and a hp'r (530r) engine. durability is hard to predict with any build, but the 502 which is stroked to the max is still going strong

give me a couple of hours from now to upload the image.

[250rpilot]

sweet, thanks. i look forward to seeing it!

[coalroostr]

here is the picture of the case modifications so that the Falicon Knife rod can clear the cases as the crank clears on a +4mm stroke. No big deal to remove metal here since the crankcase has very little crankcase pressure below the piston. after this case mod the rod has over 0.04" (>1mm) clearance from rod to case for oil and metal expansion..

;)

[coalroostr]

difference between stock 450r crank and my friends +4mm stroker (on the bench too! ouch)

anyway, notice how the bottom of the rod protrudes from the journels.

mines already installed! :D

[coalroostr]

close up of the Falicon Rod. notice the build up to the rod to make it extremely tough. Falicon claims that these rods have never broken even in their hi-hp drag street bike engines too!

hmm

trust me ppl, Falicon designs cranks for factory suzuki too! they know their stuff.

once again, i'm not trying to show and tell either. this thread is for ppl to see what is involved in strokers and is not intended to be "bragging". hope you understand this. If you don't then I'll not post this stuff anymore.

chad502ex.com

[250rpilot]

thanks, thats exactly what i wanted to see. i would think if you could use a smaller big end rod bearing with smaller big end rod. you could gain another MM or two. im a 2 stroke guy, so just seeing that rod, the big end is ALOT bigger than my 250r cranks are. you may not be able to get away with a smaller one for durability reasons i would guess.

thanks again, and whats up with the different name?

[coalroostr]

Originally posted by 250rpilot
thanks, thats exactly what i wanted to see. i would think if you could use a smaller big end rod bearing with smaller big end rod. you could gain another MM or two. im a 2 stroke guy, so just seeing that rod, the big end is ALOT bigger than my 250r cranks are. you may not be able to get away with a smaller one for durability reasons i would guess.

thanks again, and whats up with the different name?

your exactly correct about the smaller big end rod bearing part. like i said i selected this rod for its strength and adaptation to my custom piston. Absolutely, you can get 2 more mm. I will say that the only problem with the trx crank is that the HONDA selected a odd size bearing and rod manufactures are having tough time matching the rods in inventory with custom size bearing. Alot of rod manufactures are having this problem and had to reforge new rods to fit this crank

[Hammer trx450r]

Originally posted by chad502ex
360,

i've learned from years of wrench turning from cars to motorcycles to 502 to 530. i am what you call a "garage" mechanic or tuner. I do not build professionally. I've seen some "professional" work and havn't been impressed in the attention to detail that i would offer my own. The "professional" work always looked rushed when examined thoughroughly. I understand that too cause its not their engine and they need to move on to the next to make more money. I like attention to details, so i take my time and never rush on builds. research, select quality components, measure and know tolerances, and torque as required when you build. Never be afraid ask for someones help or never be afraid to try.

As far as school, I did go to college for electrical engineering and physics. physics contains some engine fundamentals.

there is tuns of information to be learned everyday (as I see) and i am no where to understanding even a small piece of the big picture in engine building, but reading and always asking hard questions to others (even if the responses are wrong- you learn) is key to growing. Even if you try and don't succeed, the worst thing that could happen to you is that you would need to replace. BFD!

good luck and try!

Dude you rock, I always wanted to see inside the case, place i've never been before. This is all just free edjucation for something i love;)

[Hammer trx450r]

Hey let me ask u this, I'm putting in a 13:1 in my 450r. What kind of fuel and what mix should i run? And is there anything i should know or do while im putting in piston? Thanks

[coalroostr]

Originally posted by Hammer trx450r
Dude you rock, I always wanted to see inside the case, place i've never been before. This is all just free edjucation for something i love;)

free? who said free? i bill ya later,....

;)

[250rpilot]

lol! thanks again chad, i appreciate you taking the time to learn me (and others) sumthin today!:D

[coalroostr]

Originally posted by Hammer trx450r
Hey let me ask u this, I'm putting in a 13:1 in my 450r. What kind of fuel and what mix should i run? And is there anything i should know or do while im putting in piston? Thanks

make sure you gap your rings correctly and be sure to space the gaps as directed on installation.

13:1 stock bore?

well, it kind of depends on your entire setup (pipe/filter and overall throughput). I mean if you get your engine close to be dialed in with jetting, clip position, ect.; then you can use octane to fine tune it in. let's say your not quite on top of the mountaintop (peak being all dialed in and metastable) then by changing octane you can roll the engine lean or rich depending on which direction you need to go (up for lean or over and down for rich). the higher the octane the slower the burn. slow burning octane causes the motor to richen. regular low octane fuel causes the engine to run advanced or leaner than higher octane fuel.

i hope this somewhat simplifies. theres more but i'm not going that deep here. TDC bla bla bla.

anyway, our 450's will run supreme pump gas below 12:1, any higher look to start mixing.

good luck with your install- let us know and post pics if you can.



chad502ex

[exrider360]

thanks for all the info and the pics chad502ex now i know what they meane when they say this big bore requires case machining.

did you chyange your name

[coalroostr]

Originally posted by exrider360
thanks for all the info and the pics chad502ex now i know what they meane when they say this big bore requires case machining.

did you chyange your name

i asked for an alias so ATVRIDERS would not get anymore grief from my chad502ex posts. then i admitted to having two usernames.

chad502ex = coalroostr

:D

[Hammer trx450r]

Originally posted by coalroostr
make sure you gap your rings correctly and be sure to space the gaps as directed on installation.

13:1 stock bore?

well, it kind of depends on your entire setup (pipe/filter and overall throughput). I mean if you get your engine close to be dialed in with jetting, clip position, ect.; then you can use octane to fine tune it in. let's say your not quite on top of the mountaintop (peak being all dialed in and metastable) then by changing octane you can roll the engine lean or rich depending on which direction you need to go (up for lean or over and down for rich). the higher the octane the slower the burn. slow burning octane causes the motor to richen. regular low octane fuel causes the engine to run advanced or leaner than higher octane fuel.

i hope this somewhat simplifies. theres more but i'm not going that deep here. TDC bla bla bla.

anyway, our 450's will run supreme pump gas below 12:1, any higher look to start mixing.

good luck with your install- let us know and post pics if you can.



chad502ex


Well its kinda making sense. I have HRC cam, stock bore, TC exhuast. Is there certain kinds of race gas also?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Hammer trx450r
Well its kinda making sense. I have HRC cam, stock bore, TC exhuast. Is there certain kinds of race gas also?

yes Hammer, there are different kinds of race gas. My only experience is with CAM2 (110 octane). CAM2 is not the best though. There are other fuels that are better

Can any one else answer Hammers questions about race fuel?

[kgbg]

That is pretty good stuff, Coal530R ;) (You need a third name)

[coalroostr]

Originally posted by kgbg
That is pretty good stuff, Coal530R ;) (You need a third name)

heh! things happen in three's.

:cool:

[Punk'd]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/pf5eddaa9ca65c0be0d38b76dfd5980f2/f590a152.jpg

I thought this was a kool picture..

[coalroostr]

Originally posted by Punk'd
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid153/pf5eddaa9ca65c0be0d38b76dfd5980f2/f590a152.jpg

I thought this was a kool picture..

having taken apart this beast, i can atest that this motor looks exactly like this picture. LOL

even the pictures i've posted looks similiar to this

Punk'd i like the picture too!

thanks for sharing

chad502ex.com

[team_450_88]

Originally posted by chad502ex
yes Hammer, there are different kinds of race gas. My only experience is with CAM2 (110 octane). CAM2 is not the best though. There are other fuels that are better

Can any one else answer Hammers questions about race fuel?

Turbo Blue 115 octane mix half and half with 93

[outacontrol31]

Originally posted by coalroostr
having taken apart this beast, i can atest that this motor looks exactly like this picture. LOL

even the pictures i've posted looks similiar to this

Punk'd i like the picture too!

thanks for sharing

chad502ex.com

same thing here, after tearing down my motor and splitting the cases for the first time, it all looks familier, and makes sense, i tor mine down and found out that my chain tensioner failed, cause it to skip timing, and break a peice off the chain guide, and also bend the intake valves, but the motor didn't blow, so it wasn't near as bad as it could have been, anyways, now putting it back together should be fun:eek2:

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by outacontrol31
same thing here, after tearing down my motor and splitting the cases for the first time, it all looks familier, and makes sense, i tor mine down and found out that my chain tensioner failed, cause it to skip timing, and break a peice off the chain guide, and also bend the intake valves, but the motor didn't blow, so it wasn't near as bad as it could have been, anyways, now putting it back together should be fun:eek2:

wow! bummer

Hey, since your valves bent it is very good chance that your rocker follower bent also. And since the intake has no rockers that force through the valves could have pushed through the intake valve buckets to the cam and/or cam carriage. not trying to scare you but i'd check these components too if i were you

hope this helps.

chad502ex.com