Frames

[jesshamner]

How many people have had a frame break already? I noticed a few around the forums and I was just curious as to how many have actually broken.

[kazpr]

Ok from talking to some people that might be in the know :)
They tell me it is alot to do with the rear suspension. If you run a stock rear setup you have a good chance of breaking it. With say the Holz rear end you should not break it.
My friend JH is very hard on all of his bikes and has never broken a frame on any of them. But none were ever stock suspension.
I am not spending that type of money on my suspension so right now my frame is @ JH Racing getting gussets.

[ThumPIN_450R]

i've broke mine in 4 places twice by the left upper motor mount and by the steering stem hoop on each side then i welded it myself and moved on with my life

[KEVIN]

hey thump the other guy said the rear shock needs to be replaced also not just the front. i have a new houser front end coming with elka elites long travel coming . gonna get rear done by candd with extra 1" with linkage.if you have good shocks i would think the frame would be fine mines mint hope to keep it that way!! :)

[dunebuggie66]

well i have elka lt's up front and elka dual rate on the rear. have never rode it with the stock shocks. i do have the stock linkage though. over the '04 mx season i have had a total of 10 cracks/breaks in my frame. so even if you have good suspension you can break your frame. luckily honda stood behind my frame and replaced it after the season. now im in the process of getting the new frame gusseted and pc'd. i will also be running elka's linkage for next season. hopefully we won't have as many problems next year.

[kazpr]

Ya the linkage will make the difference. The angle of the shock is the killer.

[ThumPIN_450R]

what would my rear shock have to do with the cracks on the steering stem hoop kevin and my rear shock is at derisi getting done right now

[kazpr]

Thumpin do you have any pics of where it broke @ on steering stem. If so could you please meail to me or post? Thanks so much. kazpr@swbell.net

[KEVIN]

they do say the shock angle is what causes the problem with the frame cracks even if the fronts cracking. i do not know why im just a roofer!

[D-7#61-450r]

Mine was cracked at the welds on the stock gussetts by the steering stem mount. I have also seen 400ex's break in the same location.

[ThumPIN_450R]

Originally posted by KEVIN
they do say the shock angle is what causes the problem with the frame cracks even if the fronts cracking. i do not know why im just a roofer!

it's ok i was just giving you crap the shock angle is what caused 2 of my cracks and i'll take some pics for ya kazpr i don't have any thing else to do tommorow so i'll get that done for ya soon

[dantwo]

Lone Star is just starting to build a complete TRX 450 Frame. So if you are able to run an aftermarket frame there are options. If you can not run an aftermarket frame there is always a gusset kit. Lone Star and many other company’s do that.

[ThumPIN_450R]

hey kazpr i forgot to take the pic of the stem area crack i'll get for you soon i promise

i need a new frame...what do u think the lonestar might cost?

[450rRIPPER]

I would say nothing less then two stacks for a LSR frame. A new stock one is $432 at my local dealer.

yah ill just get a new stock one...man your dealer is cheap on that frame...they want like $550 here

[kazpr]

The LSR hopefully wont be as much as they usd to be.

[450rRIPPER]

Yea I was surprised too when I heard that. My friend got a 05 450r on Tuesday and he hit a tree Wednesday and ordered a frame yesterday. His 450 was not even a day old. It will take about two weeks for the dealer to get the frame. Also Service Honda sells frames for the same price but you got to pay shipping.

service honda makes there money on shipping..i called planethondaracing.com and they told me 2 reasons why I will be buying theirs instead:

1. that theres was the same price as service hondas and there shipping to my zip code was $30 cheaper then what service honda told me

2. & that they had a way shorter wait period

[D-7#61-450r]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/atvmafia61/frame1.jpg

[D-7#61-450r]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/atvmafia61/frame2.jpg

[D-7#61-450r]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/atvmafia61/frame3.jpg

[D-7#61-450r]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/atvmafia61/frame4.jpg

[D-7#61-450r]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/atvmafia61/frame5.jpg

[D-7#61-450r]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/atvmafia61/frame6.jpg

[D-7#61-450r]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/atvmafia61/frame8.jpg

[D-7#61-450r]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/atvmafia61/frame7.jpg

[garett]

man now im scared ;) do they all have a good chance i wonder of crackin ? and if so then why wouldnt honda address this? i dont race or hit too big of jumps is this gonna happen to the non mx rider? also?

[jesshamner]

You shouldn't have to worry too much. It doesn't seem as bad as the early z400s.

[Lance F]

mine is cracked underneath the left footpeg.

[trick450r]

Originally posted by D-7#61-450r
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/atvmafia61/frame5.jpg

that one scares me....

[redrider37]

WOW

[RideRedEX]

Ok for those of you with cracked frames, i would like to know what kind of riding you do, if you do any racing and what happened when the frame cracked.

[jesshamner]

Recreational riding probably won't hurt too much. If you're hard on your machines no matter what kind of riding, the gussets might not be a bad idea. I know people like this. I'd say that if you're mx racing you might want to gusset no matter what. XC racing shouldn't really be all that bad unless you're a tree hugger.

[dunebuggie66]

that kit that he made is almost identicle to the walsh kit. good job! some of them may look scary but is is necessary! my frame has cracked in almost every one of the spots that walsh covers. oh and i ride mx.

[Sam R]

Are you guys breaking the frames under normal use or riding hard? I just picked up a 450R and I didn't know the frames crack:eek2: I'm just a weekend warrior, I'm not racing or riding that fast.

[ThumPIN_450R]

i ride MX and the occasional enduro/hare scramble if there are no mx races that weekend and i've had 4 cracks two by the motor mount and one in the same spot D-7 pointed out by the stem weekend trail riders won't have a problem also the same with most mx racers my cracks are from racing at the top of the A class on one of the most brutal rough race tracks in washington on stock suspension most people won't crack em though and the frame cracking issue is not only with honda's i've seen yamahas and suzuki/kawasaki/cat/ any body else that uses this frame also crack

[RideRedEX]

i was just wondering cause we race XC district 17 and i havent seen anyone with a frame problem. i didnt know if it was more of MX racing or what

[jesshamner]

We all know that anything will crack after a while...I've even seen a cannondale frame crack (but only one) :devil: . The most important thing is how easy are they to break. The early suzukis were way too easy to bend or crack even if you were a weekend warrior.

[D-7#61-450r]

I didn't post these pics to scare anyone. I only had a small crack most people would not even notice it. The reason I gusseted everywhere is becuase I had the time and the ability. I made my gussets based off of Walsh's, JH, and Burguards. I took what I liked the best and what seemed strongest.
I ride district 7 MX and only did Budds GNC. I raced C class last year and believe my lack of jumping is probally more to do with frame stress than jumping. Overall my frame looks alot better than 400's I've seen in the past. Don't be scared of your frame cracking or breaking every quad will have frame cracks with the right amount of abuse.

[CdaleXtreme]

I have had Long travel Elka suspension with the Walsh linkage on mine since the day I first took it out of the garage. I have about 10 races on it, and 45 hours of practice time on it, I havent even noticed the beggining of any craks or stress marks on my frame, I tend to be a smoother type of rider that will let off before I case a jump and end up on my head. But So far so good. I actually think a begginer rider can be harder on a frame more so than a experienced rider because of dumb mistakes and frequent crashes.

if what you guys say about the shock angle being the culprit that would put Walsh and Holtz, at a distinct advantage, and Houser at a big disadvantage, because his linkage setup puts the shock all but horizontal.

[911]

i bought mine in Jan 04 , practiced 2x a week and won an mx champ w/ stock susp. just tore my plastics off today and to my suprize saw NO CRACS:D but !!!!!!!! after what i've read im gona do some gusseting anyway. better to do it now than HAVE to do it mid season. thanx for the awsume pics #61!!!!!!!!!!! they will come in very handy in the next week or 2;) shoot i'm even gana gusset my kids trx90:) just incase!

[HAVOK]

Originally posted by D-7#61-450r
I didn't post these pics to scare anyone. I only had a small crack most people would not even notice it. The reason I gusseted everywhere is becuase I had the time and the ability. I made my gussets based off of Walsh's, JH, and Burguards. I took what I liked the best and what seemed strongest.
I ride district 7 MX and only did Budds GNC. I raced C class last year and believe my lack of jumping is probally more to do with frame stress than jumping. Overall my frame looks alot better than 400's I've seen in the past. Don't be scared of your frame cracking or breaking every quad will have frame cracks with the right amount of abuse.

I think most are scared of the welds. No offence but the welding on your frame doesn't look good. Check out this link.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139363

[D-7#61-450r]

Those are some very nice welds. I admit I'm not Jesse James but my welds are fine. His welds were done with a tig welder not a mig welder like mine. Tig welds are very fine and clean. If I could afford a Tig welder or had a freind who could weld like that, that is what I would have done,but I am sure my welds will do the job. Also I've got $30 in my gusset kit.
Havok have you ever looked at factory welds?
I'm glad you like 911. I hope to have some pics up next weekend of the PC'd frame.

[HAVOK]

Yes I have looked at the factory welds. You can get a clean weld with a Mig.

[robman]

gusset kits are a waste,if somone can weld then they can make the gussets too.Its not rocket science just brace the weak points.I shood start selling gusset kits:blah:

[speedfreaksguy]

Originally posted by HAVOK
I think most are scared of the welds. No offence but the welding on your frame doesn't look good.

I was thinking the same thing.

[culookn]

Originally posted by D-7#61-450r
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/atvmafia61/frame6.jpg




hey D-7, where on the frame is this? and how thick was the steel you used, 1/8in ?

[dunebuggie66]

that is just above the top left shock mount on the front. there is one on the right side in the same spot. i don't know what size steel he used but probably around 1/8 in.

[robman]

if you drill a hole in the gussets it looks trick.

[dunebuggie66]

im sure it does look trick, also weakening the gusset therefore defeating the purpose of the gusset in the first place.

[robman]

a round hole does not weaken the gusset unless its too big,engineers do this all the time to save weight.

[dunebuggie66]

oh ok, my bad!

[D-7#61-450r]

I wish I thought of that. To late now its off to the powder coaters already. yeah it is 1/8

[jgfarmsracer]

when you gusset you can also be neat about it

[TWISTED]

I think your work looks fine Terry. I love how when you show peopleyour work just to give them and idea of what you're doing and all of a sudden your being graded as if you were going to be welding gas lines or something. Be proud of what you've done. I bet the majority of the people downing your work don't anything about welding other than what they have seen on Discovery!!

[ThumPIN_450R]

most of the welds look great other than that one with the plate on it near the shock mount it's kinda ugly but who knows there could be some weird metal on it or it was just tough spot to weld but for the most part the look good and so you guys know i am a welder so don't go and say all i know i learned on discovery quad frames are hard to weld I'm personaly always afraid of burning through and run the welder to cold

edit: nice work on fabricating those gussets all i have is a dremel a chop saw a grinder and my welder and i get frustrated trying to make gussets with the wrong tools you're gussets look great

[tido450]

its is really hard to weld nicely, i think the kid with the gussets did a great job, and plus you people are fogetting welds can be ground down to make them smooth. the person who welded that blue frame was obviously a master. when i gussteted my z400 frame the welds looked alittle rough but i just ground them alittle to make em smooth, you guys need to stop being so critical of other peoples work. but one thing though, you dont wanna grind the weld too much

[jacksongncc450]

Yeah the gussets arent real pretty but its better than nothing.

[culookn]

how did you do this gusset? cut a piece of tubing in half and weld it over top ? if so, how thick was it that you used?



Originally posted by D-7#61-450r
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/atvmafia61/frame2.jpg

[kazpr]

I will post pics of my frame gussets from JH racing on tuesday.

[D-7#61-450r]

I'm not really sure on that tubes thickness. It was a piece of 1 inch inside diameter I had off of some old fourlink bars. And yes I cut it in half and notched it around gas tank mounts and engine mounts. I am very happy how it turned out, but really hope this is a real fix to the frame breaking in this area. I also left a large gap to fill in with weld so the gusset would also be welded to the frame not just a wrap welded at the ends. I was not much on heating 1/8 inch plate and wraping the frame. That doesn't seem to be a great fix to me.

[D-7#61-450r]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/atvmafia61/Dsc00504.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/atvmafia61/Dsc00503.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/atvmafia61/Dsc00509.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/atvmafia61/Dsc00508.jpg

[maskale]

what color plastics you got? I think it would look good with the red, uless you want to black it out.

Very NICE so far though!

[D-7#61-450r]

Red plastics for now. Will have a few more pics in a day or so. The big question is where does this go? haha first complete rebuild and a spare 450R around would be handy right now.

[culookn]

how long did the tear down take you. and on a scale from 1-10, how hard is from tear down to reassamble? any pointers b/c ill be doing mine soon.

[hondaracer305]

I must be VERRYYY lucky, ive flat landed a 50 ft tabletop (overshot), ive cased a 90 ft tabletop from a little under 20 feet up, and i hit a 60 ft freestyle gap, all with stock suspension and have yet to have my frame crack ****knock on wood****

[D-7#61-450r]

The tear down is easy. Just take a few pics of simple things like wiring harness routing/cable routing. This is my first tear down and I had a bare chassis in a day. It took a little while making gussets and welding them in. mostly because I never seem to have any time. I had what you see in the pics together in 3 hours being very careful of not to scratch the PC. If you have Mechanical skills its farely easy, just time consuming trying to be careful.