XC quad: 250R Vs. 450R

[balls2da-wall]

Ive been checking out both of these quads and it seems to me that I could get a 250R together cheaper than a 450R...my question is which one would be the best for cross country racing. I know that a 4 stroke is more user friendly and what-not, but ive always loved 2-strokes...would it be worth it to race with...would I be as competitive with a 250R over a 450R?

[toby400ex]

Unless you're an A class rider there wont be much of a difference really. Whatever you're most comfortable on will get you good finishes. A good rider could do it on a 300:p

[Mxjunkie]

idk if you ask me, a 330r is one hell of a bike :)

[nacs400ex]

Originally posted by Mxjunkie69
idk if you ask me, a 330r is one hell of a bike :)

a 330r shouldnt be considered as being in the same class as a 450r:p

[EXRIDER400KFX]

Originally posted by nacs400ex
a 330r shouldnt be considered as being in the same class as a 450r:p

yeah a 330R would blow away a 450R

[Jersey450R]

I would think the 4 stroke would be a better choice for XC racing due to the fact you can hold it wide open. People blow up 250R's in XC racing like their going out of style.

[holeshot19]

race the 2 stroke if u have a deep pocket the 450r is so much cheeper than a 250 but i keep my 2 stroke around for semenal valve and because i could never get my money out of it:blah:

[QuadRacer041]

Originally posted by holeshot19
race the 2 stroke if u have a deep pocket the 450r is so much cheeper than a 250 but i keep my 2 stroke around for semenal valve and because i could never get my money out of it:blah:

i guess the person who built your didnt knwo what they were doing because ive never blown mine up.

[holeshot19]

Originally posted by QuadRacer041
i guess the person who built your didnt knwo what they were doing because ive never blown mine up. no smart *** ive built motors for santo and several xc and mx racers around my area but when u consider that honda is slowly doing away with 250r oe parts and the parts are outrageous and most 250r have been wiped out yea i have a full aftermarket lonestar bike but i have more fun rideing my 450r cause if i wipe out the frame , plastic , or anything else i can order it very cheep compired to somehing that very costly to keep up

[represent618]

Originally posted by QuadRacer041
i guess the person who built your didnt knwo what they were doing because ive never blown mine up.

dude, i have blown up every two stroke i have owned, you must not be riding hard enough to blow yours up, see the difference?

[cdalejef]

I'd have to choose the 250R.

[QuadRacer041]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
I'd have to choose the 250R.

thank you

comming from a pro who rides a 4 stroke

[Greg Z]

id choose the 450r because of the torque you need in the woods..

hey why dont we wait for pappys post since ... he ridden both quads in the woods

[beak7707]

I have a 250r and a 450r and race XC. I ran good on the 250r and I love the 250r's, but I think the 450 is much easier to race and I also think they are cheaper to race. I'd say I had more money in my 87 xc 250r than I have in my XC 450r. Plus the maintance is much higher on the 250r. And the 250r is slowing being phased out, there will only be one 2 stroke class in GNCC next season. Thats one of the reason I went 4 stroke, becasue thats the way the 4 wheeler world is going.

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by QuadRacer041
thank you

comming from a pro who rides a 4 stroke I've just been very disappointed with the 450R. I think Honda could have done much better.

[gyt-r450]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
I've just been very disappointed with the 450R. I think Honda could have done much better. :D

[hook]

Originally posted by gyt-r450
:D honda never went bankrupt an they sale for less:D

[killerkfx]

PEOPLE LET US NOT FORGET WHICH MACHINE HAS DOMINATED THIS SPORT FOR MORE THAN THE PAST DECADE!:D

[cdalejef]

Let not forget who abandoned us racers through the 90's and then slaps us with a detuned quad they call a racer.

[QuadRacer041]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
Let not forget who abandoned us racers through the 90's and then slaps us with a detuned quad they call a racer.


they got us by the sack man, nothing we can do about it.

[killerkfx]

and i will shut up now because that is a good point, i never looked at it that way

[balls2da-wall]

Dam* commies!!!

haha:p

[hook]

i could put 10,000 in 450r an out run a can. an still get parts

[cdalejef]

I can race mine bone stock, win and still get all the parts I'll ever need with that $10,000 I save.

[beerock]

Regardless if honda dropped the racers they still had the best quad ever made. they will still kill any four banger in a xc race.
if you wanted to win you would have to race on one.

R is king!:devil:

[cdalejef]

LOL.....funny BeeRock!!!

[hook]

if u get bobwire wraped around the axle an have to stop a5000 dallor bike does good also

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by hook
if u get bobwire wraped around the axle an have to stop a5000 dallor bike does good also :confused: :confused: :confused:

[hook]

i belive it was georgia race you had to stop to remove the wire . your dad told me

[beerock]

:p

thats why you carry certain tools with you in a xc race ;)

[cdalejef]

It was Florida but what did that have todo about what we where talking about? :confused: Who are you?

[hook]

just fliping your switch lol tim adams i run with scotty frazer from charlestown he had a can . italked to u at bucks run . i was the one changing axle bearings next to you all on a yellow 400

[cdalejef]

Ohhh....ok

[hook]

only thing canidal dominated was parts. an u could not even get them for weeks:D

[cdalejef]

You just didn't know where to look, I never had any problems finding parts.

[hook]

scotty orderd parts from u that took that long

[cdalejef]

I don't recall that

[hook]

fuel filter, fuel tank, a ams,clutch cable. he might have been the unlucky one but his broke every time we rode. it did run good. i think he paid like 12 dallors for just the fuel filter,

[cdalejef]

He didn't try to get that stuff from me! Fuel filters come from any auto parts store for less than $2, I have always stocked cables and have tanks laying around, I have always been able to get arms from several different aftermarket companies.

The only thing I remember him ordering from me was Elka's which I can get in less than 1 week.

[hook]

shocks took 3 weeks an houser a arms. hell i was the one that put them on. the pitcock fell out of the tank at less than a year an no one would even replace. had to buy one from bedford dealer. its no problem now he sold it to a guy an the thing blew up a week or 2 later. now there be some good parts their. HONDA 4 EVER:devil:

[cdalejef]

Thats normal delivery time for Housers for any brand of quad, I see another BS.....Dales don't have pitcocks!

I wish I could count how many blown Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kaw motors that we've rebuilt in the last 4 years.
Call me when that Honda frame breaks, I'll get you a good deal on one.

[hook]

pitcock ,shut off valve, whatever u call it hell when it fell out it took threads with it pos . had too pull it to the truck with whatelse but the dependable HONDA

[cdalejef]

There is no shut off valve either. Your just digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole.

[Rico]

This a honda vs. honda thread,,, cannondales can't be discussed in this thread....:mad:

[JTRtrx250r]

Originally posted by Rico
This a honda vs. honda thread,,, cannondales can't be discussed in this thread....:mad: :D

[cannondale27]

You can say all you want about Cannondale at least they tried.If Honda would put even 1/8 of the money they have earned from 250r,400ex and now the 450 into making a true racing quad like the blaze or moto then they will get my respect.

[JTRtrx250r]

Originally posted by represent618
dude, i have blown up every two stroke i have owned, you must not be riding hard enough to blow yours up, see the difference? No disrespect...but thats 1 of the dumbest things Ive ever heard:confused: :rolleyes: If you guys are blowing your R's ...then you either dont maintain chit...or dont know how to set 1 up, Im w/ 041...never purposely smoked my motor from riding it too hard (that just sounds stupid!) and mine or any 2 strokes Ive had NEVER broke down and left me stranded, except for 1 time...that was my jetting mistake

If you smoke your motor...its nothing to do w/ skill(yes faster riders do put more wear/tear on them), but more of the lack of knowlage w/ 2 strokes

man....some ppl's kids I tell ya:rolleyes:

[haydug]

Well, since this is a 250R vs 450R thread, I'd say there is no comparison. Buy someone's used aftermarket 250R for cheaper than a new 450 cost. You now have one of the best bikes ever built, parts are plentiful and cheap(used). The new Honda 450R though IMO is a joke. Go buy a 400ex and put a bigbore kit in it, you now have the same bike but different stickers. I have already owned a new 450R and sold it after one race. The power is pretty lousy stock, and handling is pretty crappy as well. I do like the Yamaha better stock vs stock. If you modify these bikes, then you have a total different ballgame, the 450R can be made to work (ask Chris Borich) but without an endless money pit to dump into it, it just doesn't measure up to what Honda should have built. They have the money and resources to outclass anyone, but continue to give all the money from ATV's to McGrath to ride supercross.
Oh, and IMO, yes a dale stock vs stock is the way to go. As for parts, if you can't find parts hook, just call someone, I know of a few dealers that keep that stuff in stock. Go to your local honda shop and try and pick up a tank, Elka's, and Houser's for you'r new 450R. I bet you get put on a waiting list there too. ;)

[jacobw]

ok boys let me get this straight when the cannondale came out lets see honda had a 400ex oh thats right it got smoked by a stock cannondale. Yamaha had to spend I think it was a extra 10 million into the design of the yfz because was not competitive with the cannondale they had to go back to the drawing board and honda has a 20cc advantage over cannondale run the new atk450 that jeff has against the 450r and yfz450 and the atk/cannondale will win stonger frame and best suspension that makes for a factory racer. Ok guys tell me how many of you guys how many pros are running a stock suspension tha came with the quad. let me see noone and lets see Jeff runs a suspension that came with the atk I dont see yamaha a honda guys doing that.

[MY450R]

Originally posted by jacobw
ok boys let me get this straight when the cannondale came out lets see honda had a 400ex oh thats right it got smoked by a stock cannondale. Yamaha had to spend I think it was a extra 10 million into the design of the yfz because was not competitive with the cannondale they had to go back to the drawing board and honda has a 20cc advantage over cannondale run the new atk450 that jeff has against the 450r and yfz450 and the atk/cannondale will win stonger frame and best suspension that makes for a factory racer. Ok guys tell me how many of you guys how many pros are running a stock suspension tha came with the quad. let me see noone and lets see Jeff runs a suspension that came with the atk I dont see yamaha a honda guys doing that.
thats because cannons cost so much noone can afford the upgrade lol
oh and a 400ex with a bigbore is not even close to a 450r and why would you mod a 400ex to be like the 450r anyway if the 450 is so bad:rolleyes:

[cdrookie]

i think if jeff stoess wanted to upgrade, he could find a way:ermm:

a used ex in good condition are plentiful and cheap. it would be too easy to get one, do the necessary motor work, suspension, etc... and you'd have a machine more powerful and better handling, not to mention cheaper, than a 450r.

but either way you look at it... they still have pitcocks.
oh wait... i'm not exactly sure what a pitcock is...
they still have petcocks.

[MY450R]

Originally posted by cdrookie
i think if jeff stoess wanted to upgrade, he could find a way:ermm:

a used ex in good condition are plentiful and cheap. it would be too easy to get one, do the necessary motor work, suspension, etc... and you'd have a machine more powerful and better handling, not to mention cheaper, than a 450r.

but either way you look at it... they still have pitcocks.
oh wait... i'm not exactly sure what a pitcock is...
they still have petcocks.
FUNNY lmao

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by hook
i could put 10,000 in 450r an out run a can. an still get parts

Are parts a problem with Cannondales? Hmph, I never noticed.

[XANDADA]

Originally posted by represent618
dude, i have blown up every two stroke i have owned, you must not be riding hard enough to blow yours up, see the difference?

ya, that quad041 dude can't ride a quad hard at all :devil: :eek:

[JTRtrx250r]

Originally posted by XANDADA
ya, that quad041 dude can't ride a quad hard at all :devil: :eek: Funny...I was thinking the same thing:D :blah:

I think the 250r can be built to be a better quad. but the 450r is a better choice for most people

[Flynbryan19]

Originally posted by GNCCer
I think the 250r can be built to be a better quad. but the 450r is a better choice for most people

Elaborate GNCCer...? Is it just from a cost maintnance stand point that the 450 would be better for most?

[cdrookie]

the question is more like- what quad is better for YOU. we can all argue for 10 years about stuff like this and it's pointless. everyones opinion is just that, their opinion. i won't change my mind cause someone says their 450r is the greatest quad ever made and diehard R owners won't either, whether its a 450 or 250.

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by cdrookie
the question is more like- what quad is better for YOU. we can all argue for 10 years about stuff like this and it's pointless. everyones opinion is just that, their opinion. i won't change my mind cause someone says their 450r is the greatest quad ever made and diehard R owners won't either, whether its a 450 or 250.

What about purple Blasters?

[Flynbryan19]

I was more fond of the puke green blasters.......:D

[quadrcr161]

Originally posted by jacobw
ok boys let me get this straight when the cannondale came out lets see honda had a 400ex oh thats right it got smoked by a stock cannondale. Yamaha had to spend I think it was a extra 10 million into the design of the yfz because was not competitive with the cannondale they had to go back to the drawing board and honda has a 20cc advantage over cannondale run the new atk450 that jeff has against the 450r and yfz450 and the atk/cannondale will win stonger frame and best suspension that makes for a factory racer. Ok guys tell me how many of you guys how many pros are running a stock suspension tha came with the quad. let me see noone and lets see Jeff runs a suspension that came with the atk I dont see yamaha a honda guys doing that.

if cannondale is so great, where are the championships? honda won the baja 100, bill balance on a yamaha, borich won the last 3 (?) races on a new honda, there were cannondales in the same class right? in mx gust won on a suzuki, i dont think a dale placed in any class, in tt little won on a yamaha. i could be wrong on my finishes, but if the cannondale is such a great machine why isnt it winning everything, and didnt the company fold and get taken over by atk? just wondering


back to the orginal post, i would pick the 450r, the 4 stroke would be easier and more predictable to ride in the trails.

[MY450R]

i agree with you scott
where are the wins at??

[hook]

THANKS FOR THE RACE INFO :blah: i would take a 450r myself

[balls2da-wall]

Well all I want is a quad that is going to move me up in the field...I have a 440ex with almost everything you could put on it and I still feel like its holding me back. Ive always enjoyed 2strokes, but to me it looks like I could buy a fairly tricked out 250R for less than a 450R...Im looking more at the cost to performance ratio here...since im a student and all:D

-and im very mechanically inclinded and enjoy working on 2strokes...so maintance would not be a problem for me.

[jacobw]

quad rcr if I remember right jeff stoess won an overall on a atk/cannondale gncc and dana creech is thinking about riding a new atk and cannondales did win some desert races. And let me see nacs ran them so there are solid quads with the proper maintenance jeff stoess has a blaze with over 1000 hour on the original motor. If hondas and yamahas are so good and high tech racers where is the fuel injection hmm let me see they are about 5 years behind cannondale technology and when atk gets off and running more and more pros will be on them and then once again yamaha and honda will be going back to the drawing board. And if I remember right tim farr grenaded his honda trying to keep up with kory ellis and I dont see cannondale guys gusseting the fram becuase its breaking. You cant break a cannondale frame and cannondale dirt bike where the first with alloy frame now i see that honda and the new suzuki have alloy frames why? because the twin spar cannondale design is top notch. Cannondale had top notch stuff and atk will continue to implement the top notch ideas cannondale had. You guys must have never rode a cdale put a stock glamis againt a stock banshee and the banshee will be heading to the truck. Take a cannondale to the sand and race it up the sand mountian against modded and stock 450rs and yfz and the cannondale will win. Cannondale folded because they tried to big to fast not becuase of mechanical failures. ask a cannondale tech and the will tell you cannondale was making money right before they shut the doors. yamaha and honda dont have what it takes to build a high tech racer like cannondale did.

[hook]

someone start a thread on the can an lets get facts:D

[Out_Sider]

well this question has come up many times in my mind, i will be turning 16 in 2006, so i will finally be upgrading to a larger machine, my question was which would be better for MX, a built 250r, or a built 450r? my dad is obessed with the 450r, even tho i'd rather have the yamaha just because the 450r is weak biitch stock, i mean ask anyone about the lame power. but beside that point, which would be better for motocross? built 250r or built 450r, maybe a yzf or crf conversion?

[jacobw]

on further note cannondale was replacing engines when they were being raced and people blew them up. Race your yfz and honda and grenade it and they will void the warranty. Cannondale was encouraging racing and had the best factory support when they were in business. How come a american bicycle company can have good race support for thier prodoct and yamaha and honda cant. Kory Ellis just recieved full support from yamaha. If yamaha had good support ellis would have had good support. If ellis was riding a cannondale they would have had full factory support for him but mutil billion dollar yamaha cant. hmmm...... cannondale is getting a bad rap for thier engines but yamaha and honda and zuki dont get a bad name for thier frames cracking while mxing and honda for the engine but cannondale does sounds biased to me. We will support japanese companies but when an american company makes history and is brave and does something else no else has they are criticized why not hold honda repsonsible for thier "so called quiet recall" on thier motors. And for the frames on yamis and hondas and zukis breaking they know how to build a strong frame but they choose not to so they can make huge profits and keep thier pockets full and give little factory support. Cannondale went out on a limb and got a bad wrap they could have kept the profits and said he** with the customers but they gave them support and new engines and got spread too thin and went bankrupt trying to support racers hmmm..... we are always ready to be a critic but mark my words japanese companies will be passed up again when atk gets more pro riders on board.

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by MY450R
i agree with you scott
where are the wins at??

Without starting a war, on this half dead horse of an issue, the Cdale has a lot wins under it's belt for the 2.5 years it was around. And looking back Cannondale 2002; won 2 National Championships. Not to mention Stoess winning at Sparta.

That's not bad considering the ratio of YFZs and TRXs to Cannondales. Oh wait, the YFZ and TRX weren't even being produced when Cannondale was around. Sorry, that always get over looked.

And don't bother throwing Gust into the mix. Trust me, that's all rider. I get the feeling he could be put on a Blaster and be a winner.

Come folks. The 'my quad is faster than your quad' is the dumbest argument on the internet. Forget the quad, who is the fastest rider?

[quadrcr161]

Originally posted by jacobw
quad rcr if I remember right jeff stoess won an overall on a atk/cannondale gncc

yes he won AN over all, im not saying he is a bad rider or on a bad quad, but how many overalls has balance won? borich?



and dana creech is thinking about riding a new atk
he isnt on one now is he?


and cannondales did win some desert races. And let me see nacs ran them so there are solid quads with the proper maintenance jeff stoess has a blaze with over 1000 hour on the original motor.

almost any quad can be realiable if maintained right


If hondas and yamahas are so good and high tech racers where is the fuel injection hmm let me see they are about 5 years behind cannondale technology and when atk gets off and running more and more pros will be on them and then once again yamaha and honda will be going back to the drawing board.

what makes fuel injection so much better? dont you think with honda haveing injected street bikes, and the auto line they could have it on a quad if they wanted? its mainly to keep the price tag down


And if I remember right tim farr grenaded his honda trying to keep up with kory ellis and I dont see cannondale guys gusseting the fram becuase its breaking. You cant break a cannondale frame and cannondale dirt bike where the first with alloy frame now i see that honda and the new suzuki have alloy frames why? because the twin spar cannondale design is top notch.

im sure tims motor wasnt close to stock, also keith little blew a few motors on his yamaha. make an alum frame out of 1inch dia stock and see if it brakes? of course its harder to brake a piece of box tubing, also look at the size of the frame and how much more is there to make it strong. all honda and yamaah had to do was switch to chromeolly (sp) but they went to keep the price down.



Cannondale had top notch stuff and atk will continue to implement the top notch ideas cannondale had. You guys must have never rode a cdale put a stock glamis againt a stock banshee and the banshee will be heading to the truck. Take a cannondale to the sand and race it up the sand mountian against modded and stock 450rs and yfz and the cannondale will win. Cannondale folded because they tried to big to fast not becuase of mechanical failures. ask a cannondale tech and the will tell you cannondale was making money right before they shut the doors. yamaha and honda dont have what it takes to build a high tech racer like cannondale did.

honda and yamaha has what it takes, just neither are going to make it though. more weekend riders will drop 6500 on a sport quad to play on instead of dropping 10,000 on a quad. im not trying to bash cannondales but some people think its the worlds best, but the reputation isnt there. it could be, but from the company failing, not as many wins under its belt and more matainiance it hasnt proven it to me.

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by Quad101


LOL Cannondale fuel shut off valve .................mine didnt come with one :rolleyes:

Don't worry. I think he was just confusing the petcock with the engine winder in the side spar. Or does yours not have that either? :blah: Oh well, I think some came with a pull cord anyways. :p

[jacobw]

the new atk/cannondale is setup right outta the factory for 10k you get the Lt suspension, nerf bars, steering damper, beadlock wheels, choice of tires, tag bars, aftermarket exhuast. and you have a pro level mxxer. or you can get the xc one if you xc race for about the same price. Jeff is running a stock atk 450xc that costs 10k I am sure that ballances quad is more like 20k. You have to setup the yami or honda with aftermarket parts. The atk/cannondale is fully setup to your riding style and weight with choices of tires and other goodies. Honda will not let you have maxxis tires or yami for that matter. The atk/cannondale was a pure outta the box no mods race machine. When yami or honda steps up and does that for the price of a new atk 450xc for mx quad then i will give them my respect.

[jacobw]

on the dana creech part bombsquad54 on cannondaleriders knows dana real well and is friends with him and he said dana loves cannondales and was thinking about riding a new atk 450 which is essentially a cannondale with reliabilty updates and red plastic. I hope to see dana on a atk 450 to represent us cannondalers and get us back on the map.

[Quad101]

Originally posted by TheJaspMan
Don't worry. I think he was just confusing the petcock with the engine winder in the side spar. Or does yours not have that either? :blah: Oh well, I think some came with a pull cord anyways. :p

LOL But mine did come with a stage 3 tweedle valve and I did the update for the pull cord and now I have the duel flow Flux Capacitor :p

[XANDADA]

Originally posted by balls2da-wall
Well all I want is a quad that is going to move me up in the field...I have a 440ex with almost everything you could put on it and I still feel like its holding me back. Ive always enjoyed 2strokes, but to me it looks like I could buy a fairly tricked out 250R for less than a 450R...Im looking more at the cost to performance ratio here...since im a student and all:D

-and im very mechanically inclinded and enjoy working on 2strokes...so maintance would not be a problem for me.

IF you went with an R, are you going to be limited to a 265 size engine? If yes, then I don't know how much of a step up a 265R is going to be from a 440EX?? If you can run a bigger bore 250R like a 310 or 330 then it will be a good step up in power. I think a 265 will only be about 4 or 5 ponies better than most 440's. I may be wrong....

Just my opinion, but if you already have a 440EX with ALL the goodies then I don't think its worth starting all over again on another quad whether it's a 450R or 250R

[jesshamner]

Hook, I know Scotty too. I had a chance to really talk to him about his cannondale. He said he had a couple small problems when he first got it. One being the shift fork screwing up or something like that. He took it back to Kyle at R&S and had it fixed. Besides the having to get it fixed for these small things while it was new, he said he loved it. As far as him being upset with Jeff b/c of the houser/elka suspension...that just stupid. Its not like Jeff has them on the shelf ready to throw on. Most people have to wait for their a arms. By the way, tell Scotty I said hi. I haven't seen him since the summer.

The reason why you don't see pros riding atk/cannondale is b/c the sponsorship isn't there. Slowly the sport is getting more and more factory support but why would the pros want to go back to being a privateer? When cannondale was still in business there were pros riding and testing cannondales all the time. It wouldn't make sense for a pro to ride one until atk starts sponsoring more people with the deal that they are giving Jeff. I agree that it is much easier to just go to the local shop to get parts for your yfz or trx, but the parts for cdales/atks are out there.

Someone asked , "Why would someone pay 10,000 for an atk when they can get a honda or yamaha for 6500 and then add parts?" Check the prices on a new vr at atk. Then add the parts that you will need. Its probably comparable to buying a $6500 quad and putting on parts that you will need along with beefing up stock parts that you are going to need to outlast cannondale.

[hook]

Originally posted by TheJaspMan
Don't worry. I think he was just confusing the petcock with the engine winder in the side spar. Or does yours not have that either? :blah: Oh well, I think some came with a pull cord anyways. :p THE FUEL LINE FITTING FELL OUT OF THE FUEL CELL WITH THE THREADS ON IT. THE CANIDAL DEALER WOULD NOT EVEN REPLACE IT ( 45 DAYS OLD) GOOD WARRENTY:confused:

[hook]

YES THAT HAPPIN TOO. GIVE SCOTTY ACALL AN GET THE HOLE STORY .I TALKED TO HIM TODAY AN HE SAID IT WAS LIKE 2 MONTHS ON THE A-ARMS AN ALSO A DRAIN PLUG FOR 12 .00 DALLORS. IT S ALL GOOD NOW THE CAN IS GONE:D

[QuadRacer041]

blah blah blah, i think its funny how everyone on the cannondale site has to come over here to defend a statement that one person made and start a gay brand war, give me a brake.
you guys can say what you want and defend it till your blue in the face but 3-4-5 national wins doesnt equal a great machine.

[hook]

:D LOL!!!!!!!!!!

[jesshamner]

Originally posted by QuadRacer041

you guys can say what you want and defend it till your blue in the face but 3-4-5 national wins doesnt equal a great machine.


I agree.

[hook]

jess do u know danny bradford

[jesshamner]

Yes I do. He was telling you to buy my 400ex when I had it for sale.

[CannondaleRider]

I cant find that picture(a few of you might know what im talking about) where there were like 7 or 8 Dales rounding one corner in a race

EDIT: Damn, a lot of people posted while I was posting.

And I dont care what any of you say, I believe CANNONDALE(to hook, who cant even spell it) is the elite bike. No other bike can you take out of the box and go straight to a race and kick highly modded bikes asses

[bama400ex]

all i know is nothing is meaner than a predator. cant wait till the next time polaris steps it up again.

[hook]

sissy was wanting it. how is braff can running

[jesshamner]

Originally posted by CannondaleRider
I cant find that picture(a few of you might know what im talking about) where there were like 7 or 8 Dales rounding one corner in a race


There is a good pic of a lot of cdales in the whitebros catalog. Its on there website. I think its the last page of the atv body .pdf.

[jesshamner]

Hook, do you have an IM screen name? I'll send mine in a pm.

[CannondaleRider]

Thanks, I couldn't remember where i saw it, i think thats where it is

[hook]

can rider i can spell pos :D

[CannondaleRider]

Go Here (http://www.whitebros.com/04catalog/ATVBody.pdf) and scroll ALL the way to the bottom

And hook, your not the brightest person i know, at least my frame doesnt CRACK, and my swingarms dont CRACK, come on.

If you own a cannondale, you have to be smart about it, and CARE for it, they only brake when there not mantained

[hook]

IF U KNOW HOW TO RIDE AN HAVE A GOOD SET UP U DONT BRAKE FRAMES ( I THOUGHT THIS WAS EX RIDERS.COM ):D

[Mxjunkie]

i say a eton rascal 40 is better then every quad out there :cool:

[jesshamner]

Originally posted by hook
( I THOUGHT THIS WAS EX RIDERS.COM ):D

Not any more:blah:

[hook]

JESS PM BOX FULL

[jesshamner]

fixed

[hook]

scottys swingarm did an thats no sh!!!!!!!t

[jesshamner]

Scotty had the old style swing arm. It had a hole in it just behind the shock mount right? The new style doesn't have that hole and is a lot stronger. I have put mine through some abuse and it has held up fine.

[CannondaleRider]

Hook, the caps lock button is to the left of the A button, turn it off.

And like you said, if you know how to ride and HAVE A NICE SETUP then you dont brake frames.

Put some stupid *** rider on a stock 450R and some stupid *** rider on a stock Cannondale, doing pro stuff(if they could, lol) and see what frame brakes first

[hook]

BLOWN MOTOR :eek:

[bombsquad54]

hmmmmmmmmm. i wander why i would sell a 14000.00 nationals yfz450 to get a cdale? probley cause my stock moto puts down faster lap times that i ever could on the y. jacobw- i talked to creech's mom and she said he would look into it. i hope he does ride american! i do have to say, the 450r is an ok bike, even bulit, they are guttless. but hey its a honda and they are reliable as ling as you dong jump them. LOL . my yfz was full PEP big bottle zps, with PRP lt and the frame broke on mine, i dont think you can set a yfz or trx good enough to have SOME frame failure. i know ive tried. you trail riders and c riders arent as hard on frames as a A or pro rider, keep that in mind. 250r. is my choice on the subject, it handles better, almost as good as a dale, hopefully honda and yammi will figure out the front end better, because they work like crap, reason is, there is no kickup like the 250r and cannondale. and dont make chromoly frames! there too damn heavy go with alloy. ALL RACE QUADS BREAK IF YOU RACE THEM, ITS ALL ABOUT WHEN IT IS RUNNING, DO YOU WANT TO BE IN FRONT OR BACK. WHEN MY DALE IS RUNNING. IT PULLS EVERY 450r AND YFZ OUT THERE! BUT WHEN ITS BROKE IT DONT PULL ANYTHING! people now days are blind. ive seen 400ex's whoop up o 450's at nationals. 400ex is the best quad ever made. just because of reliablity. its 90 percent rider guys trust me, i love cannondales and thats my opinion. you people that bash them, have never rode one, i promise you that! ride my moto and tell me a honda is faster, i dare you!

[bombsquad54]

then scotty had a cannibal swingarm. moto's still brake but you have to beat the crap out of em.

[bombsquad54]

nope just opinion

[hook]

yep it cracked like ice .

[CannondaleRider]

Originally posted by hook
BLOWN MOTOR :eek:


????

[QuadRacer041]

blah blah....blah blah.....blah blah blah blah

[3rdtime]

Polaris Predator rules.....lol

man it all started with the 450R and 250R. if the pros would be allowed to race whatever they wanted you'd probably see the 250R still winning races..( ask Borich). when he was one of the last to swap over who was winning races. he was.

[Mxjunkie]

u know, who cares whats better

as for hook, how can you talk trash on a cannondale/atk, id LOVE to see you try and even hang with a moto :rolleyes:

this is like me saying 450rs suck cause tim farrs over heated or w.e and me saying oh z400's suck cause the chain broke or what have you, just because ONE thing happened to ONE doesnt mean it will to the rest, my hub broke in half on my cr, i asked around it happened to a rider around here, but you know we no1 talked smack or anything, stuff just happens

[CannondaleRider]

^^^^^^^^^thats what im sayin

[hook]

i can an i have so talk like u know someone an .udont know me.:D

[CDALEMX301]

guys u can only take what hook says with a grain of salt....hes obviously not very educated when he cant even spell what he is fighting. Everyone believes what they want about each bike...I prefer the Dale and will never go back to the others just to many perks. People need to smarten up and relizes no quad is the absolute supreme everyone prefers something differant...if u wanna dump ur money into an R to keep up with a stock dale then waste it but i wont :blah:

[JTRtrx250r]

Im beginning to wonder if it isnt really "Speedypete" by the way he talks and types

Is this really Bob.....LMFAO:D :rolleyes:

[beerock]

HOLD UP let me get in on this.

FIRST OFF, the best bike made to date IS STILL THE 250R

NONE of the new bikes have anything a 1/4 better then the R . fuel injection? WHOOPTY DOO aluminum frame? WHOOPTY DOO Four stroke? WHOOPTY DOOPIN DOO!

Oh yea i forgot that HONDA only produced the bike for 4 years about 19 YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!! and only stopped winning pro races because of the 2 stroke outlaw. dump money into a 2 stroke?? THIS IS RACING BUDDY, if you dont have the CASH you cant go FAST. If you maintain a 2 stroke right YOU CANT BEAT THEM. with that said, the people blowing motors up isnt the motor its the maintainer. AND EVERY BIKE has problems, all race bikes have blown up. saying that tim farrs bike blew up trying to catch ellis is a joke, ITS RACING things happen.

HMMM i wonder what the pros would be on if it was still allowed???

Honda has spent ALOT on the 450r, I know because one of mybuddies works for honda R&d and told me about the bioke before it came out. back then i stuck by my words for 3 years about what they were going to come out with. HOnda had 3 PROTOTYPES ready for manufacturing un til they decided to go with the one they chose.

the fact is racing a atv is alot harder then a motocross bike, so much so that honda sees it as opening themselves to trouble if they participate fully and help provoke the showing of atv's in main stream society they could get in trouble again. So they have been hurt by them before and are probably going the "never again" route.

cannondale was a good company and they did come out too fast to hard. But you cant forget the bike that propelled every manufacturer this way, regardless if rider suport was there or not.

yes it was honda.

[balls2da-wall]

well guys I have made up my mind...between the 250R and the 450R I have choosen .................................................. ........the ATK450XC :D

...just have to save a little more money is all:p

[DRT]

Originally posted by QuadRacer041
blah blah....blah blah.....blah blah blah blah

Oh come on Lou ....you liked my Dale when I boght it :confused:

[CannondaleRider]

I cant believe people think bikes like the 450R are comparable to the Dales(I've never rode a YFZ so I dont know what those are like)cause i've rode a friends modded 450R and it was f*ckin guttless

[TheJeSter1340]

I ride a STOCK 02 cannondale cannibal, it has nerfs, pipe, and a Speed/moto map. The only biek that is anywhere close to me on the holeshots and straits is a 450r that has a sparks piston, cam, port and polish, and a pipe. I paid $3500 for my cannondale the way it sites (except the front beadlocks). oh yeah. I was also running 23inch xc tires on a sandy mx track, and I whooped EVERYTHINGS *** on the holeshot. Add it up, I got $3500 in my dale, and he has more than that in buying his 450r, before the mods. and if I want a bullet-proof motor all I have to do is drop about $2000 into it (Crank, 450kit, and head) and It will still be less than the 450r off the showroom floor, and even faster!

But you guys are right, brand wars are dumb. Look at the facts. I garuntee you put any of the top pro's (borich, smiley, farr, ellis, and the others) on a dale and they will still win! they are that good, and when they are that good, it doesn't matter what you put them on.

Oh yeah, I talked to a local pro at an Mx track here the other day, he has welded his frame (450r) 6 times in the past month. And as for honda service? how come dealers are keeping 450r's with blown motors for months unless you call honda directly and get them to do something about it? huh, talk about ****ty service. I have never had a problem with getting parts for my dale, and the people who own dales aren't *******s like most of the little prick 13 year olds over here bashing each other for riding wheelies or discussing the pro's and cons of a 450r, and a 250r. Get Real.

[CannondaleRider]

Hell yeah

[JTRtrx250r]

I personally like the CDale, the frame style and the geardrive sound , only complaint looks wise would be the front , otherwise I'd love to own 1:blah:

:confused:

[QuadRacer041]

Originally posted by DRT
Oh come on Lou ....you liked my Dale when I boght it :confused:


i do like it, thats not what i have a problem with. like a few people have said put a pro on any bike and they will do well, and to do the sport that we choose to do takes alot of money. there is no way around that.
my honda is better then your dale is just people acting like 2 year olds.
like beerock said the R would still be a top pro machine if it wasnt outlawed.
and $ for $ you still cant beat it.

[MY450R]

whatever

[TheJeSter1340]

Originally posted by JTRtrx250r
I personally like the CDale, the frame style and the geardrive sound , only complaint looks wise would be the front , otherwise I'd love to own 1:blah:

:confused:

What is wrong with the front... yeah the geardrive is a little unnerving, but once you get used to it you come to like it... it doesn't sound like everything else out there

[JTRtrx250r]

Originally posted by TheJeSter1340
What is wrong with the front... yeah the geardrive is a little unnerving, but once you get used to it you come to like it... it doesn't sound like everything else out there For some reason it reminds me of a newt:p :D I also really dig the sound of geardrive, especially when its about 15-20 injected360/410 sprintcar motors:macho :blah: :macho

I like that little "whine" they make w/ rpm's:cool:

[balls2da-wall]

this may be a dumb question but by gear drive do you mean the cams are driven by gears instead of a chain?

[JTRtrx250r]

Originally posted by balls2da-wall
this may be a dumb question but by gear drive do you mean the cams are driven by gears instead of a chain? exactly;)

[CannondaleRider]

Yeah, I love the sound, and the looks it gets when you go buy.:D

[hook]

when it runs:D

[cdalejef]

You ready to put your money where your mouth is Hook?

[XANDADA]

I gotta admit those dale engines sound badazz revin out!! I turn the sound up on my stereo and listen to the dvd of Jeffro runnin that Dale out at H/M! The poor neighbors must think I got a quad in my house! Anyways, I've ridden with Jeff and his Dale and I can say he truly beats the living hel out of that thing - at least he rode the pizz out of it at H/M and I didn't see him have to wrench on it once. Thats a lot more than many of us can say who didn't ride nearly as hard as he did. Come to think of it there were 4 or 5 Dales on that trip and none of them had any troubles. Those trails were gnarly enough to break my frame where the airbox is mounted on my R and I was going half the speed of Jeff and most the others.

ah well I dunno why I posted that but I'm bored :scary:

[jacobw]

and Jeff for the record will you tell the people how many hours are on your old cannondale blaze and it still runs I dont think you will find a yamaha and honda no matter what they are that has this many hours on it!!!

[cdalejef]

I'm guessing 800 to 1000. Unfortunatly I had to sell her last weekend to make room for the 2005 ATK. :(

[hook]

was time to junk it jeff :D

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by hook
was time to junk it jeff :D If you'll read my post, I said that I had to make room for new quads. The guy that bought it called me back after he rode it for a day and said its the baddest quad he had ever rode.

[XANDADA]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
Unfortunatly I had to sell her last weekend to make room for the 2005 ATK. :(

I almost feel sorry for ya!:mad:

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by XANDADA
I almost feel sorry for ya!:mad: Hey now, I've seen your R......very nice!!!

[kyex40047]

I race a 250r in xc and I have raced a 450r twice, and I can honestly say that I like the 250r alot better. The 250r will out handle the 450r any day.

[Exodus]

Hook,
Did you get beat by a Cannondale recently? Sounds like theres alot of pent up anger there buckaroo. I mean jezz, your peeing all over yourself your so mad. I got a little secret, its ok that your honda is slower than that girl who whipped you on the Cannondale.

As far as topic goes, I'd take the 250r over the 400ex. I have rode both and bought a Cannondale, but my second pick was a 250r. For twenty years you couldnt get any better. That time has passed though, at least for the pros. That just makes those 250r's a little cheaper.

And to those who are bashing the Cannondales, why dont you just go ride one. I mean yall have seen the back of them, so why not see what it feels like to be in front of a honda or yamaha.

I have a lot of freinds with hondas and yamas and I dont have anything against them, they have their mass produced, cookie cutter bikes, and I got my hand built, hand tuned Cannondale. To each his own, I'd own a Ferrari anytime vs. Pinto, and thats why I bought a Cannondale.

[balls2da-wall]

I'd own a Ferrari anytime vs. Pinto, and thats why I bought a Cannondale.

haha right on!!!:D

[CannondaleRider]

Originally posted by Exodus
I'd own a Ferrari anytime vs. Pinto, and thats why I bought a Cannondale.



Hell Yeah.

My brother-in-law has always said that cannondales are like the Harley Davidson of quads

[beerock]

Originally posted by Exodus


For twenty years you couldnt get any better. That time has passed though, at least for the pros. That just makes those 250r's a little cheaper.

And to those who are bashing the Cannondales, why dont you just go ride one. I mean yall have seen the back of them, so why not see what it feels like to be in front of a honda or yamaha.



dude you dont get it:o

[FourFiftyFour]

ok people just chill out who cares who likes what, i have my likes and dislikes but im not gonna go bashing a certain kind of quad continuously, yes i have my opinion just like everyone else

but is it really necessary to just keep bashing people and their opinions?

so how about we do something and stop bashing people and their rides?

now back on subject......i LOVE the 250r, they are legends...if u like doing a little more maintenance go ahead and own one of the greatest quads ever built....im not too impressed by the 450r just bc i dont feel comfortable on one ( i feel sort of short on one being only 5'6") but most people like them (im sure if i was a bit taller i would like them also)

i have ridden almost every quad produced and they all seem to be nice but i gained different opinions by trying them out......see if u can try out any quads you are curious about bc your opinion will always be different than everyone elses

I prefer cannondales/atks, yfzs, and kfx/z with 450 kits.... and ive always loved a good 250r

[TheJeSter1340]

Well, my dale just turned probably over the 100hr mark. I got it with maybe 35hrs on it, and have changed the oil 6-7 times, the fuel filter once and the oil filter 2x and have never had any problem, not even the bike being hard to start in cold weather after nto riding for a couple of weeeks. I run a speed/moto map because it has the bottom end and the top end for anywhere I go. I have never even fouled a plug and there have been quite a few times where I have had to warm it up in a hurry and gave it throttle before others would say to. I think people concentrate on the negative things too much, how about some of the pro's to a cannondale:

Faster
Tuneable at the track
Cheaper (do the math Stock moto compared to how much you would have to put into a YFZ or 450r: LT=+1200 for a decent set up, add a pipe $300+, Nerf bars $200+, Rims/tires$500-700. All this doesn't include the motor work you will need to keep up in the holeshot)
Not having crank problems anymore
Frames are indestructable
If you race you change the oil just as much, or should.

Finally, just ride one, if anyone is in my area I would be more than happy to meet at a local track and let you take the dale for a spin.

[raptorrider]

I'm guessing 800 to 1000. Unfortunatly I had to sell her last weekend to make room for the 2005 ATK.
If you'll read my post, I said that I had to make room for new quads. The guy that bought it called me back after he rode it for a day and said its the baddest quad he had ever rode

Might that be the Blaze that sits in my garage now??

[hook]

what ever jeff have a happy new year :D iam going to cancoon for a week but ill be back. HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE:D

[JTRtrx250r]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
You ready to put your money where your mouth is Hook? guess not huh?!?:confused:

:D :devil:

[beak7707]

Back to your question between the 250 or 450. If your not a top rider like A or above the quad doesnt matter. In C, B, and even some A any quad can win. At casey in the distric 17, every race different quads run good. Z/kfx 400's run good of course the 400ex's do good, I and my friend ran good on the 250's, and then of course the 450's ran good. Its the rider not the quad. its not like if you get a certain quad you wont have a chance. So for you price question, if you find a decked out 400 or 250 for a steal I'd give it a look. I'd rather have a pimped 400 than a stock 450. I dont know if you already race or if your just starting. But I'd start on a whatever I could find a deal on and if you like it and are good then move on to bigger and better things.

[aroracer72]

Ohh and if honda kept their quad engine anything like the dirtbike 450..it would be killer..but what does honda do???..gives it a very bad gearing ratio....a rediculously tall first gear...and DETUNES IT!!...jeesh.
CHAD

[JR3]

how exactly does the whole computer thing in the dale work do u plug a laptop in a ceratin spot etc

[aroracer72]

YEs basically...theirs a port....and you have whats called a D&M kit....which is used with a laptop or any computer with a USB port...and is sjut a computer program..and you plug your dale up to the laptop...and you can then adjust fuel flow....etc etc....and even program different maps for different power. Its very simple to use and VERY effective!!..its also nice to be able to tweak your power for different races adn what not.
CHAD

[QuadRacer041]

Originally posted by aroracer72
You all seriously think ANY honda out there is better then a dale???.....you give me 15,000 dollars for a total budget to spend getting a 450r and cannondale and putting the left overs in them

for you little kids......15,000 to buy and mod a 450r......and 15,000 to buy and mod a dale.

okay, now, you could do a cam, porting, valve angle cuts, pipe..blah blah blah to teh 450r....suspension, etc. And you can buy a USED dale for around 4000(a moto even for this price)....take teh motor out spend as much money making it reliable as you did making yuor 450 faster...and jsut add a 450 kit to the dale...and the right map.....and the dale will be HELLA more reliable and FLIPPING faster. As for handling, a dale handles close enough to a 450r for the majority of you little kids NOT to notice the differemnce...so that jsut leaves you to fix your 450r frames when they start breaking and cracking everywere(is already happening)...and the dael you could literally throw off a cliff and it prolly wouldnt get damaged.
And this info is coming from someone that currently has a 450r and a dale..ME!!..and i sjut sold the 400ex. My 450r feels like a modified 400ex with a very crab like looking cosmetic makeover. While my dale(moto) with jsut a pipe and a good map....is sjut in a whole other category. As for yfz's..their the only damn quad that can even give dales a fit in teh power department..but then when you mod them to keep up/beat..they CONSTANTLY break!!!..while cannondales when you build tehm right....are as reliable if not mroe reliable then any 450r out there. I can understand why you honda riders think badly about dales...cause thats all youve prolly ever heard about them. Its jsut like some classic cars.....people say they suck..till they own them..and they realize theyre really great cars!!!..thats what a dale is like. a Stock dale i agree is NOT reliable fro a advanced rider that revs the engine past 8g's all the time. But once worked on .....become super flipping fast and very VERY reliable.
AS for 400ex's being as good as 450r's......this is true....i know some of you might have modded 440ex's and dot agree...but if you have them built right and with the best set up..they are the same/better with a smaller price tag then its new "better bigger" brother the 450r.

that and lets see you honda owners and anybody else for that matter be able to completely change their motors power packege with the click of a mouse!!!....i thought soo...

Ohhh its 8:30.....isnt it bedtime little kids????(not all of you, jsut the few ANNOYING members)
CHAD
++++++++++++++
Ohh and between a 450r and a 250r...id rather a 450r if you have the credit and money.....cause of gas mileage..newness....etc...and id rather the 250r for the handling.....CHEAPNESS.....ease of mods.....and te weight.
(i also used to own a modded NATIONAL motor'd 250r...so ive owned all these quads!!)



what a jerk off

talk about little kids, grow up and get a life:rolleyes:

[TheJeSter1340]

To elaborate on chads post. You plug the Serial cable into the back of a laptop (or desktop if you happen to have one in a shop) and then into a plug under the left front fender. Then you push the start button on the quad to power up the ecu, click "get calibration" the computer gets your throttle position, injector offset, and flow rate, you tell it to upload map and it will upload the map keeping all these settings the same. You then unplug the serial cable from under the fender, start the bike and go ride the hell out of it.

The first time I changed my map, I had the Blaze/speed map (for the woods) on a hard pack clay MX track. I was constantly shifting, I changed the map to the Moto map and went back out, I was at least 10 seconds faster per lap because instead of shifting betwen 3,4,5, I was running wide open 4th through most of the track, and sometimes 5th. the next weekend I went to a deep sand track, the Moto map has great top end, but couldn't use all of it in the deep sand, I pulled my bike to my truck, hooked up the D&M kit, put in the Speed/moto map. Once again, I was a hell of a lot faster than before.

[DRT]

OMG I think this thread should be deleted .......................................I own 2 Dales and I'm not a basher can we get back to the subject ...........XC quad:250r Vs. 450r .

Really this thread should be 4 stroke or 2 stroke.My 2 cents I like a four stroke because you can lug it more through the woods in tight sections.You can find alot of 250r's all done up for less than it would cost you to build a 450r.Prolly even get an R with an aftermarket chasis(made of 4130 not mild steel like a 450r)

[aroracer72]

hey...im sorry about my post...i was on my meds....and they make me very arseholish...and i apologize....i own a dale..end of story.....as for this post...i prefer a 4 stroke cause of its ease of rideability...and the better gase mileage and you dont have to mix gas.....also like electric starting MOST 4 strokes have..which 450r's dont...so that makes a 250r VS 450r a good comparison. All i know though is that a 250r is easier to kick then a 450r....which is a plus for the 2 strokes. Also, there much easier to work on....and modifications are usually more effective and cheaper.
CHAD

[Out_Sider]

can someone post a pic of a stock mx version atk? i'd just like to see a completely stock one

[jesshamner]

Its the same as a stock cannondale moto but I think it has red plastic instead of silver.

[aroracer72]

heres a link to the quad page with pics
http://www.atkusa.com/newsite/Products.aspx
CHAD

[CannondaleRider]

I guess i'll answer the original post, lol.

I like both the 250R's and 450r's the same, to me 250R's seem quicker, but with 450R's you don't have to deal with staying in a powerband or anything. There both easy to kick over(at least the ones i've rode).

All in all, i think I would rather have a 450R if I had to choose, cause I just dont like 2 strokes that much.

[DRT]

BUT I do have a good question.........why is there no forum in the info section for ATK/Cannondale ????Like I said I dont bash or anything but I think the forum should be there this is now ATVriders.com