The R As A Racer

[kane71270]

Hey guys,

The name is kane,
Hey is my delimia.I have been riding atv's for a while now..I feel that since I love it so much I want to give racing a shot.I have always been on an utilitly atv all my life..The only other sport quads I have driven is a 250 ex.It was pretty responsive..Ok So I aam so used to ridding the big mud tired rachers and stuff so what would a change to the sport side be like..What kind of racing would be best suited for Louisiana...I havent really checked into all the races and stuff but i know i can travel..anyways..When selecting a quad for racing I would say that size, weight, and power are the MAJOR factors...am i right?..I have looked into the honda 250 r's though i havent ridden one..I like the size of them..I do NOT WANT A BIG BULKY SPORT QUAD...WHERE IS THE FUN IN THAT...What I really want to know is what is the 250 r capable of? and will it hang with the dawgs of the normal amature classes of todays time...I really like the sound of the two strokes...and by a guess I would say that they are more snappy(low end, top end) then the 4 strokes.I am 17 and might be a bit tight on funds...I have a VERY NICE Jetski...Its the waveblaster 1 IN PERFECT CONDITION....You wont find a cleaner one inside and out....Would this be a possible trade in for a race quad...

Question #1.What would i need to do to get into the racing scene?
#2. What kind of quads are best suited for what track types?
#3. TWO OR FOUR STROKE....

Thanks in advance for any information!
Kane
Btw I am new to this forum..MY msn is kane_schutzman@hotmail.com if anyone wants to add me.
Is the R a frequent site at the tracks...
I have an atendency to ride my stuff HARD Will this hold up
Sugesstions?

[ESR350r]

well #1 it is not about the quad but the guy riding it. you could go out and spend $15,000 on the best quad and never finish a race. for someone starting in racing who just wants to race and who may be tight on funds i would say a 400ex. you can get one for relitivly cheap and make a couple mods to get started and used to racing. you can ride a 4 stroke till the wheels fall off and they will still be running. a 2 stroke can be more tempermental. it will cost more to mod a 4 stroke to get power then a 2 stroke. there are alot of nice 2 stroke 250r's out there right now because people dumped them to get the 450r. i am sure you could trade your jetski for a nice quad. there are not as many 250r's out racing right now because of the new 450s. i have ridden sport quads for 10+ years and i have been my 250r for 3 years now. you can definetly win a race on either a 1 or a 4 stroke but a 4 is something you can just hop on and go. i usually mess with mine getting it ready for race depending on the conditions. Also the type of racing you want to do would help decide which quad you want. i think if you gave a price range and the kind of racing that would help. if you just want to race for fun and the experience start off on a 4 stroke for a year or two and get your feet wet to see if you like it and then go to a 2 stroke if you want some excitment.

[kane71270]

Thanks for the quik reply...Your info was very helpful..here is a new factor..I am betting that the racing around here will be closed course(tight track) and I am familiar with atv's and i can hold my own with the power..I want something that will be able to throw me off if i wanted to...Also Why are the 400 ex cheaper then the 250 r's..
HEre is a pic of my ski...IT is a VERY CLEAN SKI.....and not for the lasy..this one you have to LEARN ON...ITS VERY SMALL TIPPY AND AGILE...THATS WHAT IS IS KNOWN FOR..
thanks
kane
http://usera.imagecave.com/Kane/DSCF2024.JPG

[beak7707]

A 250r could easily win races, with the right rider on them. They won almost every race there was for 15+ years. But technology is passing them up a little, the new 4 strokes are easier to ride and a better overall quad. However you can buy a modded 250r these days for a good price that will be coparable to the 450's. If you just want something to ride and have fun on I would say a 400ex too. You can beat them to death and they still have good power and handleing. I myself perfer the 250r over them, but you have to know how, and want to ride a 2 stroke. They are soo much more work to ride than a 4 stroke, on the race track they wear you out faster. I'm not saying at all, not to get a 250r because I think they are the greatest 4 wheeler ever, I'm just saying for a beginer with a budget the 400ex might be a better choice.

[beak7707]

And as for the types of racing, you have motorcross, cross country, and flat track. I dont know what your state has to offer but I'd say you would be able to find these 3 types. I race XC and love it, it's like riding trails only as fast as possible with 20-30 over guys doing the same. I also think it is the cheapest, you can take a stock quad with skid plates and good tires and run competitive. You dont need tons of speed to win XC races. MX is a different story, I've seen a couple stock quads race it but they dont have much of a chance. You need high $$ suspension to have a good MX quad. Flat track also takes more mods to be competitive.

[kane71270]

Thanks for the input beak..What is the huge diff in a two and four stroke...I know the clutch and all that..THATS FUN...Auto's SUCK....anyways a 250'r is less powerfull then a 400 right....I mean I know the two stroke part gives it more power but its still 250 cc vs. 400 cc right...

kane
What is the size diff between the two..
thanks
also do you think anyone on these forums would trade me for my ski..
thanks
kane
I could also give a little cash monthly with the trade

[ESR350r]

Thanks for the input beak..What is the huge diff in a two and four stroke...I know the clutch and all that..THATS FUN...Auto's SUCK....anyways a 250'r is less powerfull then a 400 right....I mean I know the two stroke part gives it more power but its still 250 cc vs. 400 cc right...
A 2 stroke goes through a complete engine cycle,(intake, compression, combustion, exhaust) in 2 strokes of the piston(up and down). A 4 stroke has a stroke for each indiviual action. Like one stroke is for exhaust, one is for intake, one for compression, and on for combustion. This means that a 2 stroke can rev alot higher and faster. also there is the powerband on a 2 stroke which is where you can get that power to throw you off the back. 4 strokes have power whether you are idleing or full throttle, when ever you give it gas you have power there. A 2 stroke you need to be in the "power band" to have the most power. 4 strokes have cams and valves. 2 strokes are simple to work on because as long as you have gas, compression, and spark it should run. Also with a 2 stroke you have to mix the gas and he oil. Both 2 and 4 stroke racing quads have manual clutches. Stock vs stock, a 250r vs a 400ex, a 250r wins. even though the 400ex has more cc's the 250r can run just as good because it creates the power in 2 strokes instead of 4.

[beak7707]

No, stock to stock a 250r is faster than a 400ex. But they are very similar quads, the way they ride and handle. 4-strokes always have there power, all you have to do is give it gas. 2 strokes however have to be in there powerban for them to have power, but when they hit it they are beasts. And yes this is where the clutch comes into play. You clutch it to keep the revs up and keep it inits power. You can tune your powerban on a 2 stroker though. There are a few ways to change the power of a 2 stroke, pipe, poting ect.. If you want to race xc, or mx you want low end power, so you can rip through the woods and around tight turns. So you would get a lowend pipe for this type or riding and the power would come in much sooner in the revs. If you want a drag racer you get all top end work done, top end pipe and porting, this allows the 2 strokers to rev to the moon and pull forever. The 250r's have been around forever and were about the only race quad for years, so there are tons of aftermarket goodies for them.

On a 2 storke there is almost no limit to the amount of power you can get out of them. You can make them crazy fast and scary powerful. Dont go off cc's as a sign off power, yes the higher the cc the more power but just because the r is a 250 doesnt mean the 400 has any more power. Even in the 4 strokes cc doesnt mean much, a 450 will walk all over a 660 raptor. It also cost more to build up a 4 stroke vs the 2 storke. with a 4 stroke you needs cams, valves, head works, high comp pistons. the 2 strokes just need port work and you got a good running machine. Now dont get me wrong both of them cost alot of money to build to the max, but mild build up, a 2 stroke is much cheaper but they require alot more upkeep.

[kane71270]

Wow...you guys are on the ball.....You have answered all my questions fully....Now I think I will expand....Say I know the fourstrokes Very well....I am not all that sure about the two stroles except my jetski...Which is a water cooled and never giving my probs...its also a MUCH larger motor...I like the challenge and the fact that not just anyone can jump on it and ride...The 250'r seems to be pulling me in....I really like the way 2 strokes are designed too...NOT ALL THE COMPLICATIONS INSIDE AS A FOURSTROKE...I could work on the motor myself also...So...If I were to look for a Two stroke....What are the advantages of a Shee vs. 250r....I think I can answer this on my own but i will let you guys fill me in for sure...The banshee would be more of a drag machine right? and the 250r is better for mx.....If i were to look for a two stroke what are things i should check....I know compression is a MUST...I wish i could open it up in front of the guy lol...but thats not always an option till its yours...So are there any goood ways to check on the condition and the abuse of a machine by looking at it or simple tests....THANKS

[beak7707]

yes, even though you have to work on a 2 stroker more they are very simple to work on. And my 250r has not gave me very many problems at all. In my opinion a 250r and a banshee are not even comparable except they are 2 stroke. The only thing a banshee is good for is speed, drag racing and sand dunes. But with the banshee you have to buy 2 of everything since they are twin cylinder, more cost for not much more performance. You can make an R run with a banshee. When it comes to handleing the 250r blows it away. If you are wanting to do any type of racing besides drag racing the 250r will be much better.

As for what to look for, the 250r's are old so you need to check a few things. Look to see if the frame is broken or been repaired. Check the left side motor case to see if it is busted or been repaired. Check the bearings and bushings to make sure everything it tight. The piston is no big deal its cheaper and easier to replace, than a frame or all the bushings. You will be abe to tel if they been taken care of.

[kane71270]

Ok when you say the case...are you talking bout the actualy motor cases right...any particular part...the head....the crank case the pump....What excately is the cooling cycle on the 250 r...Would it be easy to check out if i needed to do that befor i buy...The 250 r or the 400 ex are my choices....I think I will go with whatever i trade the ski for.....I WANT THE 250 though...I realise they are old so would i be better off trading for a stock one or MODDED HEAVILY...I know the more mods the less reliability...as true with anything...thanks
kane

[ESR350r]

you need to look at the case around the sprocket, chains will break and bind up around the sprocket and punch a hole in the case which cases major problems. The cooling on a 250r is liquid cooled. On the stock or heavily modded... if the mods are done right then a modded R can be just as reliable as a stock. just make sure that all the bearings are tight, the quad is clean and has not had welded like the cases or frame. if you have a compression checking gauge you can take that. or you can check it after you get it to see if you need to replace the piston rings or put a new cylinder in it. Do not trade your jetski for a quad that you do not want... get a 250r if that is what you want because you will kick yourself later.

[wilkin250r]

Realize this. In any riding condition, the 250r will demand more rider attention. So you need to analyze your riding style.

With a 2-stroke, you have to shift more, use the clutch more, and pay careful attention to the powerband. You really have to be in tune with your quad's performance. This is fun for me, because I like to become one with my machine when rding dunes, the journey is far more important than the destination.

However, this can be a serious drawback when racing. Many a trophy has been lost to a simple missed shift. The more you have to pay attention to your shiftin, your powerband, and your clutch, the less attention you have for other riders, your braking, and all other important aspects to racing.

I love my 250r for the dunes, I wouldn't trade it for the world. However, when I'm racing, I really wish I had a 4-stroke, I'd have a lot more trophies on my wall.

[mikes450r]

dont you guys think the z400 is a better quad than the 400ex..i mean this is just my opinion but i would get a z400 before 400ex..

[ESR350r]

I will own a honda till the day i die so i may be a little biased, also in the drags that i have been to the 400ex has more low end then a z400, the 400ex always wins. if it were all out top end then yes teh z400 may win, but in racing very rarely is there a wide open stretch to get it topped out. at all of the races i have been to there are tons more 400ex's then z400's. the z does have reverse which is a nice feature but that does not really come into play during a race. i think the 400ex has alot more after market manufacturers that make parts so people have a wider range of parts to look at.

[beak7707]

I agree with wilkin250r on the riding style. People who have won and can still win on a 2 stroke have been riding them for a very long time. If you can ride one properly you can run with anything, however if you cant ride one very well you will get walked all over. He is absolutly right, a 2 stroke is a job to race. I race XC and when I get in a mud hole or a tight turn then up a hill, I have to be on top of things to make it through. If I dont keep my revs up the 4 strokers will blow me away. Going from a utility to a 250r will be night a day difference. Dont expect to jump on that R and be fast. Yes the 4 wheeler is very fast but its only as fast as its rider. where the 400ex takes a skilled rider to win but anybody can ride it and get alot of its potential.

[kane71270]

Thanks Guys for the great input...I think I have made my decision....I myself AM A HONDAHOLIC....Partly because I have a Blown yamaha in the backyard...And its a 2002...Need to get rid of that if anyones interested....anyways....I will be looking to get the 250r or the 400 ex...I know both have there advantages....If all possible I would do the R hands down...But at this point its what I can trade for and maybe a little cassh....
Where I am from you dont know what a suzuki is...Its either a honda or a yama....If anyone knows someone that might be interested in my trade Please tell me...I am a easy guy to deal with and I can help with the pickup and aassist in traveling and such....,,,Thankss
kane

[zedicus00]

just thought i would through in one more opinion. ive grown up on and primarily owned 2 strokes, and a couple four strokes. i know how to ride a 250R well and can hang with ANY of the 4 strokes around here. so im telling u if u want to race get a 4 stroke. no u didnt read that wrong. u wont b able to race a 2-stroke competetavely for a very long time if u dont hav sum serious experience on one. i can beet anyone in town almost on my quad. swap quads with them and beet them by twice as much as what i did when i was on my 250R becuz they simply dont know how to ride it.

[kane71270]

Thanks....I think the biggest thing to overcome will be what I can trade my Jetski for...

kane