creeping 250 r

[mikes450r]

hey guys i need some help with my 250...when im in gear it will start to creep up a little bit..i keep messing with all the adjustments but i cant get it to stop...do any of you know what the problem is or how to fix it...let me know..thanks

mike

[3rdtime]

sounds like you need a new clutch.. if you made adjustments allready.

[mikes450r]

the bottom adjustment has to ran all the way towards the back of the bike for me to be able to make any adjustments on the top

[3rdtime]

try new clutch

[440exnacsracer]

im not sure about the new clutch:confused: ..... how old is your clutch cable, if it is old, check for fraying at both ends. it could be stretching if you are using that much of adjustment

[mikes450r]

i just went and checked it...and it has no fraying...the cable is not to old.

[440exnacsracer]

hmmm. im thinking,...maybe you do need to check the clutch, wouldnt be too hard, and i know thats got to be getting on your nerves.

[mikes450r]

ya it does...if i have it in neutral and put into first with clutch in...it will die sometimes..and it kinda makes the quad jump

[JTRtrx250r]

Im w/ these guys, sounds like its time for a new clutch , you'll also get a chance to check the basket for wear/grooving

[mikes450r]

ya im about to go and take it out right now..i will post what it looks like

[mikes450r]

hey guys i just took off the clutch cover....the basket is all rusted up...lots of rust in there...whats the best way to take the basket out...i see the center bolt but whats the way to hold the basket..thanks for the help..mike

[mikes450r]

nevermind im retarded..that would be the fly wheel that i was looking at....lol....i took the right side off this time...the basket fingers have little grooves on them ranging from 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch...what do you guys think about this...is that enough to cause problems like i have...or do you think its just my clutch...thanks for the help ....mike

[ESR350r]

get a hinson clutch basket and new clutch plates. your clutch plates are getting stuck in those grooves and you cannot completely engage and disengage your clutch. a hison basket does not wear as bad and has a life time garentee. they are not too bad to put in either, they give very detailed intructions to do so which helps alot.

[mikes450r]

alright thanks

[mikes450r]

hey esr350 i sent you a pm

[beerock]

its nto the clutch its the basket, the plates are being grabbed by the wear on the basket thats why its creeping forward.

[mikes450r]

also whats the trick to getting the clutch and basket out

[JTRtrx250r]

Ive actually seen a few ways it can be done if you dont have the holder tool,

1 way is just wedgeing a penny in the gear

or using a shop rag to bind it up

but a neat trick I seen a bud Dave (username w/held:D ), he welded a bar to an old clutch plate , worked great as a holding tool

Good luck mang!

[ESR350r]

When i did my clutch basket i used a rag to bind up the gears, it is a pretty harmless way to lock things up so you can get your basket off.

[mikes450r]

so just put a rag next to the gears and turn them a little bit...so the rag gets caught up in the gears...is this right...just want to make sure b4 i go trying it..thanks mike

[ESR350r]

yeah, take a shop rag and put in the gears so it binds up the gears in the right direction so the gears will keep the basket from turning when you take the nut off. then you can just turn it back the other way to get it out.

[mikes450r]

alright thanks for your help

[440exnacsracer]

i was scrolling through my new rocky mountain catalog and they now have a tool that screws into the spark plug hole th hold the piston down for clutch/flywheel/stator procedures. thought it was a pretty neat tool, and its only like $9

[hy250r]

actually if your 250r is a 86 it could be the clutch rod. because Im experincing the same exact thing that you are. You know, clutch wont disengage, theres way to much free play in the clutch lever.

See, on the 86's there is a steel ball that will usually fry and it will basically weld itself to this black cap thats in the center of the inner hub. or so called fly wheel. see if the steel ball gets fried you are loosing adjustment thats why your clutch wont disengage. basically the steel ball takes away space. The samething happened to me. So what you can do is go to Baldwinmotorsports and buy this 89 clutch update kit which is $56 that will give you a new pressure plate, clutch rod, clutch lifter, needle bearings and a washer.

To tell if your basket is worn or not. check to see if there are any grooves where the clutch plates would go. usually most people think it would be your clutch plates going bad but you can tell if they if they are by hearing if they are making a squealling noise.

To get the inner hub off you need a special tool called a grabbit tool. But you dont really need that. If you have a impact wrench, then just loosen it up with it. But when you go and tighten it. Put some clutch plates in and hold them against the basket. that way the inner hub wont move. Its gonna be hard to tighten it. When I did mine I had like 3 people trying to hold the basket and inner hub. The thing that makes it really hard is torqing it down to 47foot pounds.


if you need anymore help email me at warrior_yamaha_03@yahoo.com

[JTRtrx250r]

Originally posted by hy250r
actually if your 250r is a 86 it could be the clutch rod. because Im experincing the same exact thing that you are. You know, clutch wont disengage, theres way to much free play in the clutch lever.

See, on the 86's there is a steel ball that will usually fry and it will basically weld itself to this black cap thats in the center of the inner hub. or so called fly wheel. see if the steel ball gets fried you are loosing adjustment thats why your clutch wont disengage. basically the steel ball takes away space. The samething happened to me. So what you can do is go to Baldwinmotorsports and buy this 89 clutch update kit which is $56 that will give you a new pressure plate, clutch rod, clutch lifter, needle bearings and a washer.

To tell if your basket is worn or not. check to see if there are any grooves where the clutch plates would go. usually most people think it would be your clutch plates going bad but you can tell if they if they are by hearing if they are making a squealling noise.

To get the inner hub off you need a special tool called a grabbit tool. But you dont really need that. If you have a impact wrench, then just loosen it up with it. But when you go and tighten it. Put some clutch plates in and hold them against the basket. that way the inner hub wont move. Its gonna be hard to tighten it. When I did mine I had like 3 people trying to hold the basket and inner hub. The thing that makes it really hard is torqing it down to 47foot pounds.


if you need anymore help email me at warrior_yamaha_03@yahoo.com This dude brings up a good point!!;)

If your pressed for time(like ya got a race to attend or whatever) you can file down the grooves in the basket, but its only temporarlly masking the prob, and if you go too much it could cause the basket to let go....the last thing you want to deal w/ is a shattered basket and all the damage that goes w/ it

[hy250r]

you could but you might create bigger problems for yourself. because if you do that you would give the clutch plates more room to move sideways. and they're not supposed to move at all.

[JTRtrx250r]

this is true, but Ive had to do it to a couple machines myself over the yrs(usually on trips:o :ermm: )as it was effective, it was a temporary band-aid in a pinch, and sometimes it takes more than a week to get parts:(

[mikes450r]

hey guys just got the clutch and clutch basket...just had a few questions...do you new clutch plates have to go in a certain way??and is there any torque setting for the five front bolts on the front???

or just anything i should know...thanks for the help....this will be my first time changing all this...

[ESR350r]

soak the plates in oil before you put them in, some people say over night, others say 10-20 minutes before you put them in. i do not think it matters too much. The manual should say how tight to tighten the 5 bolts. I tightened them about as tight as i could with in reason... i have heard of people breaking the basket so do not get too carried away. if yoy use a small 5-8 inch rachet you should be able to torque them good enough. i hope this helps.

[mikes450r]

ok i will soak them...i didnt know that...also does it matter how the plates go in the first time..

[ESR350r]

Nope, i pulled mine out of the package, soaked them for a bit and put them in. there is no order of special way they go when you install them.

[mikes450r]

ok i just put them in some oil bout 5 mins ago..

[mikes450r]

also how much should i torque the 27mm nut in the middle...

[mikes450r]

i just realized that i dont have a 27 mm to fit my 3/8 drive air gun...so do you think i can get it tight enough with a 1/2 drive by hand..


also thinks for all your help...i was trying to get this done by morning...so i can take it out...

[beerock]

U HAVE TO USE A TORQUE WRENCH im not positive because i dont have the "bible" in front of me but i think its 47ft Ibs

what kind of oil are you going to use?

I use LUCAS synthetic 75w-90 or something close to that, this oil is the best ive ever used and the clutch feel is the best ive ever had! maybe u should try it!

EDIT:

here are the specs for the motor

Head: 17 to 21 ft.-lb. tighten in criss cross pattern
cyl base: 27 to 35 ft.-lb.
Alt Rotor: 47 to 54 ft.-lb.
Primary drive gear bolt: 29 to 36 ft.-lb.
Drive sprocket nut: 22 to 25 ft.-lb.
Clutch lock nut: 40 to 47 ft.-lb.(guess i was right!)
Shift drum center bolt: 14 to 17 ft.-lb.

[MY450R]

Originally posted by ESR350r
soak the plates in oil before you put them in, some people say over night, others say 10-20 minutes before you put them in. i do not think it matters too much. The manual should say how tight to tighten the 5 bolts. I tightened them about as tight as i could with in reason... i have heard of people breaking the basket so do not get too carried away. if yoy use a small 5-8 inch rachet you should be able to torque them good enough. i hope this helps. \
do you mean 3/8 inch?

[ESR350r]

i mean like a 1/4 inch drive 5-8 inch long handle.... sorry for the confusion... you do not want to put a 1/2 inch drive on it or else you will probly break somethign if you tighten it too much...

[mikes450r]

i been using castrol mtx synthetic sae 80w

[mikes450r]

thats probably why my clutch was messed up in the beginning..that 27mm nut in the middle was barely hand tight

[beerock]

whoa hold up, for the 5 bolts this is how you should tighten them, If you do it any other way YOU WILL BREAK the inner hub.

tighten down the bolts with a 1/4" ratchet AND extension until you feel them bottom out, then put your fist around the connecting part of the ratchet and snug them up, the same practice should be used on the case bolts that hold the center cases and clutch covers on. I call this tightening "lov" give the bolts some love, dont be to hard or they will screw you over just like a woman would if you do it to hard :p

[mikes450r]

ya i over tightened one of the cover bolts and stripped it.....now it screws in but doesnt tighten...also i had gotten a little steel ball with my clutch and basket...but didnt know where it went..i replaced everything but the cable..i put it all together and the clutch had no resistence...Then i noticed the clutch cable pin was loose and i was able to pull it right out...i was checking stuff out for about 10-15mins when i noticed my 17month old son was playing with the cap that goes on the end of the rod through the cases and in is other hand was that little steel ball...so i put 2 and 2 together and realized where that damn ball went..so i guess it took a almost a 2 yr old to finish the job..lol....thanks for all the help guys..:D

[beerock]

if your really careful you can do a quick fix on that stripped piece by tapping the piece with a tap a little larger then what you used and get a bolt that will fit , make sure the bolt doesnt stick out or anything.otherwise, replace the inner hub and do it the way i said. If that bolt backs out then its gonna create some havoc.:eek:

sorry to hear you overtightened it.:o

I say first hand experience is the best, someitmes breaking something is just the thing to make you remember. I know this because ive done it, matter of fact ive busted a whole ear off a inner hub byputting a screwdriver in there to wedgethe basket so i could tighten the hub:ermm: :( :o I bought a new inner hub.. but hey it happens.

take it in stride!:)

[mikes450r]

ya i stuck a screwdriver in there also but didnt use to much force...oh and i stripped a screw on the outside cover not inside...likes its any better..lol..

[mikes450r]

i also like to do these types of things my self..just to learn how to do it all and not waste money on labor...matter of fact i was wanting to make sure i was doing the stuff right so i called denton racing to ask them a couple questions..they didnt care to help me one bit...the guy told me i should know what im doing before i started it...i wasnt to happy about that..i was also going to be spending about 3500 in mods there for my 450..well as soon as i sell my 250..but that wont be happening now..i think my money will be going to J and H racing..