welding

[sandtoys]

My whip mount tab broke off and I want to get it welded back on.Anything special about these frames that I couldn't take it somewhere and just have them weld it back on?

Thank you,
Rick

[stupid driver]

if its a 400ex, you can just weld it right back on.

[sandtoys]

Yes it's a 400EX,don't know anything about welding so what should I say when they ask what I need done?

Thanks,
Rick

[MY450R]

that would be ummm welding

[44oEX]

yeah just tell them to weld it you won't have any trouble. it's just normal steel.

[sandtoys]

I just didn't know if I should ask for MIG,TIG,etc.
Some people just get irritated at you when you don't know what you want and when you get there and it's something they can't do then you're still left wondering where to take it next and not get ripped off.I like to shop around for the best price before I go anywhere!

Thanks,
Rick

[Fender Bender]

If they ask, tell them MIG. I imagine thats what they will use anyways. I use MIG for my truck frames, so it will be plenty strong.

[mojoe2878]

yeah get it mig welded. mig welding is hotter than tig welding and it will give a stronger weld on the frame. the hotter they can weld it , the stonger the weld will be.

[TheFontMaster]

Originally posted by mojoe2878
yeah get it mig welded. mig welding is hotter than tig welding and it will give a stronger weld on the frame. the hotter they can weld it , the stonger the weld will be.


Not true, heating the metal too hot can ruin its streanght. MIG is fine.

[02ex]

Originally posted by mojoe2878
yeah get it mig welded. mig welding is hotter than tig welding and it will give a stronger weld on the frame. the hotter they can weld it , the stonger the weld will be.
mig is not hotter than tig all metals melt at the same temp.nice thing about tig is that u can pin point the weld better and looks better but mig is fine

[sandtoys]

If it were aluminum,which weld would you want then ?

[02ex]

i would say tig.u could mig it if u have a spool gun but i don't like them very well.

[TheFontMaster]

Originally posted by sandtoys
If it were aluminum,which weld would you want then ?

For aluminum I'm almost shure it has to be tig welded.

[devildriver422]

what is ARC welding for

[fastkid400]

heiliarc welding is for aluminum, tig welds are stronger then mig, mig would be fine for urs

[mojoe2878]

only time you will mess up the strength of metal when it gets to hot is if its hardened steel or something like aluminum.
and no , all metals do not melt at the same temp.
aluminum can be mig welded if you have the set up for it, but its best to tig weld aluminum because of the lower current that a tig machine uses, if you heat up aluminum to much when you weld it it will crack when it cools down.
the purpose of welding is to heat up the metal you are welding until it melts and then the filler metal melts and forms a fussion. just heating up the filler metal until it melts and not the metal you are welding will give you a chit weld that wont hold for nothin.
anyone who has ever taken a welding test that is x-rayed to see if it has any pin holes in it will know what im talkin about.

[02ex]

Originally posted by mojoe2878
only time you will mess up the strength of metal when it gets to hot is if its hardened steel or something like aluminum.
and no , all metals do not melt at the same temp.
aluminum can be mig welded if you have the set up for it, but its best to tig weld aluminum because of the lower current that a tig machine uses, if you heat up aluminum to much when you weld it it will crack when it cools down.
the purpose of welding is to heat up the metal you are welding until it melts and then the filler metal melts and forms a fussion. just heating up the filler metal until it melts and not the metal you are welding will give you a chit weld that wont hold for nothin.
anyone who has ever taken a welding test that is x-rayed to see if it has any pin holes in it will know what im talkin about. i really ment on all metals as in carbon and stainless was not talking about alumium than great post tho

[44oEX]

your still wrong. metal with different carbon % will melt at different temp.

[nosliw]

Originally posted by 02ex
all metals melt at the same temp.


ok

*replaces tungsten welder tip with lead one*

lmao....

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sandtoys
If it were aluminum,which weld would you want then ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

you could use a few different kinds as long as they are AC, i believe

[stupid driver]

The bottom line is it is a steel frame, therefore i would advise either a MIG or arc weld. I have always used TIG welding when i need to weld aluminum. The TIG welder is much finer, making it well suited for aluminum; aluminum melts much more easily than steel.

[lil400exman]

LOL all the misconceptions here scare me. Anyways ARC welding uses a rod that has flux that is around it. So when you begin your weld the flux around the rod creates a sheilding gas. Arc/stick welding is great for deep penetration,unprepared surfaces etc. It can also do some mighty strong welds too;) also dont say they cant look pretty,im not that proficent at stick but can make a weld that will hold. My teacher (who is still teaching me) can create some beautiful cresent welds with a stick.

Also the most preferred form of electricty in welding is DC. It has the best control and is the more stable.

for a flag whip mount it would be nothing for a small cheap MIG or stick or TIG to handle. Just grind off everything and inspect throughly. Look at stresses that were imposed and why it cracked. Look and re-enforce the joints.

Also whoever said TIG is just for aluminum is wrong. It can weld all conductive materials. Also MIG aluminum can work very well. You just need to know your aluminum and WFS (wire feed speed) well. It is good on high production where speed is needed as TIG is a very slow process.

Anyways I hope this helps you a little bit. Also before you choose a welder ask to see some if his work. Many people can grab a welder melt two peices of metal and say they know how to weld. Not true. Welding is something you can never master. Any other questions feel free to ask!:D

[MadMax27]

THANK YOU lil400exman, I was starting to fume reading these posts. Ive been welding, Tig, GMAW, ARC, HeliArc and Orbital for quite a while, and in now way shape or form would I call myself "Expert". If you insist on using a MIG for aluminum, I know nobody asked, but... Change the gun liner to non-metallic, get U shaped rollers, dont set brake or roller tension too hard, and always up-size the tip to compensate for the aluminum wire's expansion. Dont forget to double back your end weld or a crater will form, this will crack on aluminum. Just some Info....

[lil400exman]

Originally posted by MadMax27
THANK YOU lil400exman, I was starting to fume reading these posts. Ive been welding, Tig, GMAW, ARC, HeliArc and Orbital for quite a while, and in now way shape or form would I call myself "Expert". If you insist on using a MIG for aluminum, I know nobody asked, but... Change the gun liner to non-metallic, get U shaped rollers, dont set brake or roller tension too hard, and always up-size the tip to compensate for the aluminum wire's expansion. Dont forget to double back your end weld or a crater will form, this will crack on aluminum. Just some Info....


good post madmax-

I figured everyone knew about changing liners etc. Anyways another trait of aluminum is that it will "sponge" heat. So when you start out its not saturated with heat. By the time your done with your bead it will saturate with heat so you will need to turn your heat setting down on your machine. also use straight argon only. Never use helium or any other gas unless you need some X-ray spec welds. Welding is a very involved thing that just fascinates. Im just a "glue gunner" or a mig welder. Its easy but to make a strong weld is very hard no matter what process...........i still want to try heliarc someday:cool:

[chucked]

tig would be prettiest, and prolly most expensive

[lil400exman]

Originally posted by chucked
tig would be prettiest, and prolly most expensive

a good TIG weld shouldnt cost anymore since its such a small peice.............heck i think a O/A weld work great here..........i mean is done correctly you can get 80,000lb tensile stength:eek2:

[syckNtwisted121]

If you have a choice have then TIG weld it, if that is not an option have them MIG it. In my weld shop I would charge you probably about $20 and it would take literally 15 minutes.

If it is aluminum it can be welded with either MIG or TIG, Heliarc is TIG welding, you just use helium gas to shield the weld. It is most common in heavy gauge aluminum welding. If it is aluminum MIG welded, it just takes a little more time, equiptment and prep to make it pretty AND strong. Any welld shop should be able to fix it up in a matter of minutes for you/

[lil400exman]

Originally posted by syckNtwisted121
If you have a choice have then TIG weld it, if that is not an option have them MIG it. In my weld shop I would charge you probably about $20 and it would take literally 15 minutes.

If it is aluminum it can be welded with either MIG or TIG, Heliarc is TIG welding, you just use helium gas to shield the weld. It is most common in heavy gauge aluminum welding. If it is aluminum MIG welded, it just takes a little more time, equiptment and prep to make it pretty AND strong. Any welld shop should be able to fix it up in a matter of minutes for you/

I thought Heli-arc was TIG based but that it had some differences than just a gas change. Please correct me if im wrong cause heli-arc is not a feild of welding i know....:confused:

[syckNtwisted121]

The differences are the mechanical properties of the metal. heliarc welding creates greaterarc energy, thus you get a deep penetration weld. It also helps with arc stability. With tig welding anytime you use a different type of gas you get different welding properties. In my shop we have been using some new type of tri blend gas which works great for all applications. I also like o TIG with straight argon. Argon is heavier than air so it shileds the weld longer, it is also great for light fabrication, like lets say a radiator or something. Helium is somewhat a pain in the *** because it is lighter than air, so it tends to blow away on you !! This post could go on FOREVER, there is so much we could go into !! I just cant believe this post started off with "how do I fix my grab bar?"

[lil400exman]

i know how gasses can change your arc direction etc but i thought that it required some special changes.......my bad then......i guess i have done a little bit of heli-arc before then..:D i remember that it was a very intense heat on the weld:cool:

[sandtoys]

I called a fabrication shop and told them I had two quads and a sandrail that needed tabs welded on.He said bring em on down and only charged me $15 with all vehicles still loaded on the trailor.I don't know what he used and I didn't ask,didn't matter to me at the time until I came back and read this ongoing thread!

Quote:I just cant believe this post started off with "how do I fix my grab bar?"


I'm glad you all have participated and posted.We all learn something new everyday and these posts have generated a lot of interest and thought provoking points.I'm sure even some of us have gone one step further and asked someone with even more knowledge than ourselves and learned from them,VERY healthy! It's cool this forum could bring us folks together so we can learn from eachother,agree or disagree with others posts here,I for one thank you guys for putting it out there.I learned something!!

Thanks,
Rick
:huh

[MadMax27]

quote: good post madmax- I figured everyone knew about changing liners etc. Anyways another trait of aluminum is that it will "sponge" heat. So when you start out its not saturated with heat. By the time your done with your bead it will saturate with heat so you will need to turn your heat setting down on your machine. also use straight argon only. Never use helium or any other gas unless you need some X-ray spec welds. Welding is a very involved thing that just fascinates. Im just a "glue gunner" or a mig welder. Its easy but to make a strong weld is very hard no matter what process...........i still want to try heliarc someday

Its all good... Im a "Junkyard Welder". :devil:

[bulkdriverlp]

if it is steel have it mig welded

if it is aluminum have it heliarced

or mail it to me, i will do it for free if you put pics up when i send it back to ya. no b.s.

i can weld only steel thou, keep that in mind.

[Martin Blair]

Mig is fine for most aplications.

Tig is the best in hi stress (needs alot of streght) or when looks are important.

Arc welding is good for cast iron and welding blocks (ie like small block) if a samll piece chips off as it is cooler and doesnt affect cyclenders.

All will work for you application, but mig is what they would do its fast, easy and will be fine, they mig weld your frame so the falg pole mount will be fine.

You can weld aluminum with mig, you just need some argon/helium gas or pure helium along with some aluminum wire for Mig, and some pratice alum is hard to weld as it doesnt glow when it gets hot, and alum is very dirty metal.

BTW call some small palce $15 seems a little steep, I know alot of shop around here if your a kid, and just talk to the guy who is welding it about how it works, ect ,ect and usually when you ask how much they say something like naw dont worry bout it, just say thanks and save yourself 15 bucks.

[400exdad]

lil400 and madmax, good posts!

I just found a crack on the 300 today and was looking to see if it should be tig'd or not. Thanks! New question: When repairing a crack should I just grind it out and weld or would it be better to scab it... or both? I plan to gussett behind the area (pegs) while I have it down. Thanks!