Hotcams Stage I

[LazeR]

I am looking into a cam for my quad, have thought about both a stage II and a stage I. I will be getting the cam before i get anything engine upgrades and i know that wont work with a stage II. Basically what im trying to ask is, what kind of gains am i looking at with the stage I ? Later on when i get some $$$ i plan on doing a 416, with 10.8:1 or 11:1 compression. Will the cam still be good for that ? I do most of my riding up in the woods, and in the dunes! I hear ppl saying you want stage II for the dunes, but i mostly run in 3rd and 4th gear in the dunes, and i would think the stage I would help me get up and go faster, which would be better for hill climbs and what not. I know all these have been asked before, i did a search and looked around but nothing really answered my questions so i figured i would just post a thread

*edit* Will i need anything else besides the cam? Like different valve springs or anything ?

[hondarider2006]

Well bro....I can tell you right now almost everyone is gonna say go with the stage 2 for the dunes. I ride a lot of trails, and do MX and I have the stage 2 with my 426 and I love it. If your gonna dig into the motor, save up a little more $ and get the higher compression and the stage 2. The low end is still awsome, and your motor will rev to the moon when you need it to. You can't "lug" the motor as much, but you don't have to rev it everywhere you go. I can garentee with a set up like I am talking about you will be MUCH happier than with just the stage 1;)

[LazeR]

Originally posted by hondarider2006
Well bro....I can tell you right now almost everyone is gonna say go with the stage 2 for the dunes. I ride a lot of trails, and do MX and I have the stage 2 with my 426 and I love it. If your gonna dig into the motor, save up a little more $ and get the higher compression and the stage 2. The low end is still awsome, and your motor will rev to the moon when you need it to. You can't "lug" the motor as much, but you don't have to rev it everywhere you go. I can garentee with a set up like I am talking about you will be MUCH happier than with just the stage 1;)

Thats the problem, i need to be able to lug it, and give it throttle and have it go, and not dog out

[LazeR]

What does everyone else think ? How do you like your hotcams stage I ?

[cals400ex]

my buddies 406 was quicker (everywhere) with the stage 1. he then put on a full HMF pipe and it ran so much better than his slip on did. the stage 1 provided a much better powerband but it didn't rev as high. i honestly would go with stage 1 if you plan on lugging it and doing some trail riding. i think you will want a full pipe and a higher compression at minimum to get the most out of the stage 2. many will disagree with me. i do like the stage 2 but i dont ride woods or tight tracks. i am on wide open land where low end power isn't a concern and high rpm power is all i need. witih a decked out motor, yes a stage 2 might be best for overall power but you need a rev box and can't be afraid to rev it high.

[LazeR]

Did he put the full pipe on with the stage I and it made a huge difference ? I want to get the cam sometime soon, then just do the 416, and higher compression a little later down the road. In your opinion would a head pipe help me out a lot ? I already have a HMF Slip-on. Just having a cam, K&N air filter, and HMF Slip-on, would i feel a $200 dollar difference, if i got the header as well ? Thanks ahead of time Cals

[LazeR]

bump

[400exr]

I got a stage 1 in my 99' 400 and I love it. i also run an LRD full system, and that made a big difference from my slip-on I had. The full system will let it breath better than a slip-on, so you get more out of your cam. I race alot of MX and like the low to mid rage power increase. It also gave me a bit on the top end, which is nice. My motor is still stock, so I can't tell you how it will change with a piston kit. I'd say if your not the kinda rider who revs the living s*** outa his bike than get the stage one.

[LazeR]

Originally posted by 400exr
I got a stage 1 in my 99' 400 and I love it. i also run an LRD full system, and that made a big difference from my slip-on I had. The full system will let it breath better than a slip-on, so you get more out of your cam. I race alot of MX and like the low to mid rage power increase. It also gave me a bit on the top end, which is nice. My motor is still stock, so I can't tell you how it will change with a piston kit. I'd say if your not the kinda rider who revs the living s*** outa his bike than get the stage one.

I do rev the hell out of it running a straight stretch on the dunes, but thats mainly the only time! I want some more grunt for hill climbing, and coming out of corners and stuff.

[400exr]

Well, i've never ridden a bike with a stage 2, but I can tell you that my stage 1 gave me alot more grunt! Thats what it's built for, a stage 1 will give you more bottom to mid rage power and a little top end, while a stage two will give you more mid to top end power. Thats why so many people recomend a rev box for the stage two, because with out it you will bounce off the stock rev limiter before the cam can build it's maximum power on the top end of the throttle range.

[LazeR]

I think for where i ride, i think a stage I would be a good cam for me! Plus i can run it on a stock engine, which is even a bigger plus! Will i notice a pretty big difference without getting a header? Since its prolly gonna be a bit till im able to get my header! Especially since i gotta send in my slip-on to have it widened, because i will prolly go with a HMF header

[jchevy]

ive had both, dont waste your time with the stage 1.

[LazeR]

Originally posted by jchevy
ive had both, dont waste your time with the stage 1.

So it would be worth waiting over a year to get a cam ? :confused:

[jchevy]

yes, after having both i would say its worth the wait.

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by LazeR
Did he put the full pipe on with the stage I and it made a huge difference ? I want to get the cam sometime soon, then just do the 416, and higher compression a little later down the road. In your opinion would a head pipe help me out a lot ? I already have a HMF Slip-on. Just having a cam, K&N air filter, and HMF Slip-on, would i feel a $200 dollar difference, if i got the header as well ? Thanks ahead of time Cals

my buddy never ran the stage 1 with the full system. i can't imagine that it would have ran bad. i can tell you his was a terd with that slip on though and stage 2 cam. his bike was never lightning fast with the stage 1 either, but it suited the bike much better. the biggest difference between the stage 1 and 2 in his bike was in the upper gears the stage 2 wasn't worth a crap. the stage 1 provided good power throughout the powerband.

the problem with buying the header separate is that the header was not made to fit your slip on. the part that connects to the silencer is larger than the stock pipe. i think HMF can modify your silencer to make it work. i honestly don't know if i would do that or just buy a whole complete pipe. i am not sure if it will perform as good after they modify it vs buying the header/silencer combo that was made for each other. i have a feeling i would run the stage 1 and leave the slip on as is. if you want more power down the road, i would sell that slip on and buy a complete system of your choice.

[LazeR]

Originally posted by cals400ex
the problem with buying the header separate is that the header was not made to fit your slip on. the part that connects to the silencer is larger than the stock pipe. i think HMF can modify your silencer to make it work. i honestly don't know if i would do that or just buy a whole complete pipe. i am not sure if it will perform as good after they modify it vs buying the header/silencer combo that was made for each other. i have a feeling i would run the stage 1 and leave the slip on as is. if you want more power down the road, i would sell that slip on and buy a complete system of your choice.

Thats what im looking for is good power throughout the powerband, so it still seems like the stage I especially for now, is the one for me! As far as i the header, i knew i would have to send in my slip-on, but you make a good point! I think i will talk to them, and see how that works, because it would be pointless to spend the $200 extra to get something that isnt to the full potential of what it should be, if i just bought the whole system at once!

[hondarider2006]

why not just get the FMF powerbomb and run it with your HMF? Rico has that set up and says its good...so it must be:devil:

[LazeR]

Originally posted by hondarider2006
why not just get the FMF powerbomb and run it with your HMF? Rico has that set up and says its good...so it must be:devil:

I have thought about a powerbomb too! Forgot Rico ran one with his HMF slip-on! I noticed from your website that you have a XR400 cam Rico! If i remember correctly that compares to the stage I ? How do you like it ?

[cals400ex]

the xr is a little less aggressive than the stage 1. i have never used it so i can't say much. rico is interested in low and mid range power. that cam suites his 416 just fine for his riding style. the nice thing about the xr cam is that it is a honda part. the one downside people have with the stage 1 hotcam is that it ticks. no harm done or anything, but it just ticks louder than most other aftermarket cams. by the way, i do have a stage 1 that i am selling if interested.

[LazeR]

Originally posted by cals400ex
the one downside people have with the stage 1 hotcam is that it ticks. no harm done or anything, but it just ticks louder than most other aftermarket cams. by the way, i do have a stage 1 that i am selling if interested.


Ticking wouldn't bother me as long as i know its supposed to do that :p I am mostly looking for bottom-mid power and a lil up top wouldn't sadden me :D

Yea, i am interested. How many hours was it ran ? You can PM me or hit me up on MSN Messenger if you want!

[AdvantageCycle]

Its funny, I have discussed this same thing with an engineer at hotcams. And my experince backs it up, the stage 1 and the 11:1 wiseco 0.040" over is a very nice package. 2 things to avoid on a 400ex (unless you like rebuilding it all the time) is big bore and a rev box.

Also someone had mentioned the ticking. Hot cams recommends some way high valve clearences, and they way they derive at those numbers is unlike 98% of the riders are going to do. I usually go a couple thousands above stock on a valve setting.

[Colby@C&DRacing]

Originally posted by AdvantageCycle
Its funny, I have discussed this same thing with an engineer at hotcams. And my experince backs it up, the stage 1 and the 11:1 wiseco 0.040" over is a very nice package. 2 things to avoid on a 400ex (unless you like rebuilding it all the time) is big bore and a rev box.

Also someone had mentioned the ticking. Hot cams recommends some way high valve clearences, and they way they derive at those numbers is unlike 98% of the riders are going to do. I usually go a couple thousands above stock on a valve setting.

LOL. We have build countless big bore 400ex motors and sold twices as many piston kits and sleeves. The 400ex when put together right and with the same old maintenance ( oil change,clean filter) will run for years without needing touched. I have worked with hot cams many times and they always say the same thing STG1 for a stock motor STG2 for a motor with high comp and or a big bore. As for the valve tapping you can set the clearances at stock and they still tick.

[AdvantageCycle]

Originally posted by Colby@C&DRacing
LOL. We have build countless big bore 400ex motors and sold twices as many piston kits and sleeves. The 400ex when put together right and with the same old maintenance ( oil change,clean filter) will run for years without needing touched. I have worked with hot cams many times and they always say the same thing STG1 for a stock motor STG2 for a motor with high comp and or a big bore. As for the valve tapping you can set the clearances at stock and they still tick.

Really.......so what kind of clutch setup do you put in when the big bore smokes it? How about head re-builds from excessive heat casused by the extra displacement? I don't care if you change your oil every 10 min thats not going to do anything for overheating or overpowering the clutches. Of coarse you can put a band-aid on the clutch by upping the springs.....everyone loves a clutch lever you have to use a cheater pipe on.

[Silverfox@C&DRacing]

Originally posted by AdvantageCycle
Really.......so what kind of clutch setup do you put in when the big bore smokes it? How about head re-builds from excessive heat casused by the extra displacement? I don't care if you change your oil every 10 min thats not going to do anything for overheating or overpowering the clutches. Of coarse you can put a band-aid on the clutch by upping the springs.....everyone loves a clutch lever you have to use a cheater pipe on.

my 416 is pretty basic and has ran the stock clutch since 99 although I did change it last year for safety sake, their are many ways to compensate for the extra heat.

[Colby@C&DRacing]

Originally posted by AdvantageCycle
Really.......so what kind of clutch setup do you put in when the big bore smokes it? How about head re-builds from excessive heat casused by the extra displacement? I don't care if you change your oil every 10 min thats not going to do anything for overheating or overpowering the clutches. Of coarse you can put a band-aid on the clutch by upping the springs.....everyone loves a clutch lever you have to use a cheater pipe on.

We don't sell band-aids. There are over 30,000 members on this site, most of them have or have had big bore 400ex's and have been very happy with them. Displacement doesn't cause heat comp does:eek2:

[AdvantageCycle]

Originally posted by Colby@C&DRacing
We don't sell band-aids. There are over 30,000 members on this site, most of them have or have had big bore 400ex's and have been very happy with them. Displacement doesn't cause heat comp does:eek2:

Great to those who have had luck with it, but let me revise, or clarify something.......big bore by most definations, mine included is over 2mm or 0.080". You mentioned re-sleeving earlier which is obviously 440 and up. This to me would qualify for big bore status, and these are the ones I have seen problems with.....not 406's or 416's which are 1mm, and 2mm respectivly.

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by AdvantageCycle
Great to those who have had luck with it, but let me revise, or clarify something.......big bore by most definations, mine included is over 2mm or 0.080". You mentioned re-sleeving earlier which is obviously 440 and up. This to me would qualify for big bore status, and these are the ones I have seen problems with.....not 406's or 416's which are 1mm, and 2mm respectivly.

C&D resleeved mine and i installed a 426. i run a 11:1 with thin gaskets and a rev box. no problems here.

[LazeR]

Anyone else want to make a comment ? If you have a Hotcams Stage I currently, please post what you like/dislike about it! Although im 98% sure thats what im going to go with :D

[hondarider2006]

Originally posted by LazeR
Anyone else want to make a comment ?

Go with a 416 and stage II:o

[serpent]

who change the clutch basket whith this engine set-ups hinson etc.. ? is really necesary change that

[400ex men]

i have a Hotcams Stage I cam in my 400ex with a x-6 it picked it up a lot i like it it gave me a lot of HP for my buck:)

[Spikers400]

I have a stage 1 with a ross high comp piston, and an hmf pipe. Right now i think it has a ton more power then stock. It also puts out way more power then my friends z400, it revs faster, and higher. It has tons of mid and topend, and i feel i even lost bottom end. Mine keeps reving and keeps putting out more and more power. So i can only imagine a stage 2 if everyone says its better. I would have to recomend the stage 1, i like it a lot.

Also, should i send my hmf into them to get the header, and modify the pipe to a full system, Or get a powerbomb?

[RIDER11X]

Well, I am making a similar decision between the TC Racing XC cam and the MX cam which is probably similar in comparision. I have decided to go with the XC cam, not only because I ride in the woods alot, but the design of the 400ex motor is only made to rev so far, and I believe the motor should hit maximum HP before 8,000 rpm if you expect some reliability out of the motor.

If you want 10,000+ rpm, go buy your 450r or YFZ. JMO.:cool: