Standard Travel versus Long Travel!!!!!

[MXRACER86]

I race motocross only and I want to know has anybody switched from standard travel to long travel? If so was there a diffrence?
Is long travel really worth it or is it way over rated? I need eveybodys honest opinion!

[Mxracer53]

Gabriel Racing

im curious, why didnt you go Long Travel up front?
PAPPY

ive owned both styles and truthfully if they are both set up correctly the difference is so small as to not be noticable. i hope that helps what ur looking thats all of heard so far.

[MXRACER86]

It kinda helps but i need a little more input.

[kazpr]

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129178&highlight=long+travel
Read that other link you made on the suspension section. Seems like all the answers are there anyone would need.

[450 Racer R]

no real advantage of a long travel set up vs a std travel?

[jlm996s]

no real advantage of a long travel set up vs a std travel?

In the words of 86atc250r: "only if you want a lighter wallet.":rolleyes:

[Yamahauler_04]

A well set up standard travel will be the same as a well set up long travel up until the shocks fade.

The longer shock has more fluid, therefore it will handle more heat.

Also, the longer shock is supposed to be easier to tune. More shock travel is easier to tune at different points in the stroke.

Honestly though, you have to really work it to notice these differences.

[CdaleXtreme]

It all depends on what you are doing basically.

They are right about the less fading.

But the ride difference is unparalelled, Unless the frontends they used were junk.

You take a + 2 lonestar 16 in std travel front end.

Then a Roll Design, Houser, Pro Trax, Any of the above, and blitz through a Whoop section or over jump a 75 foot double. One time through either of these scenarios you wil never ever go back to standard travel

If you are doing full out MX or Woods. Long travel is the only answer. If you are messing around in the woods and doing weekend trail riding then down worry about it. There is a reason 20 out of 20 pros use it, and 19 out of 20 ametures use them. on the MX circuit anyhow.

[kazpr]

Originally posted by CdaleXtreme
It all depends on what you are doing basically.

They are right about the less fading.

But the ride difference is unparalelled, Unless the frontends they used were junk.

You take a + 2 lonestar 16 in std travel front end.

Then a Roll Design, Houser, Pro Trax, Any of the above, and blitz through a Whoop section or over jump a 75 foot double. One time through either of these scenarios you wil never ever go back to standard travel

If you are doing full out MX or Woods. Long travel is the only answer. If you are messing around in the woods and doing weekend trail riding then down worry about it. There is a reason 20 out of 20 pros use it, and 19 out of 20 ametures use them. on the MX circuit anyhow.

Nice answer. But all must remember most pros get the stuff for FREE. Most ametures want to be like pros :)
But ya if I was not just a wanna be rider that actually had time to ride this beast I would get HOLZ Racing or Walsh setup 4 sure!!

[450 Racer R]

I don't like that comparison, they're different companies. How about +2 lonstar std travel VS DC4 +2 lonestar long travel?

[Scottie Mac]

Most standard travel set ups offer in the neighborhood of 9-10 inches of travel. Most long travel set ups offer about 10 inches of travel. 99.9 % of the riding public would not be able to tell the difference between the two, if properly set up. Joe Byrd used to run standard travel on all of his 250R style bikes. His reasoning, they offer the same amount of travel, for less money. Also, with a long travel set up, you are more likely to bottom out the frame instead of bottoming out on the shock stoppers.

Having said that, most races go the long travel route. Why? Vanity. When I build a quad, I want the best. When your average Joe see's " insert name here" pro rider using PEP, ELKA or AXIS long travels, they feel like they have to have them to.

If you are going to race, and only race, maybe there is a slight advantage to long travel (everyone has an opinion), if you can afford it, go for it.

Scott

[Thump_It]

Hey Scottie, what do you think I should do If i'm gonna be doin Freestyle off ramps with a little MX and Dunes in the mix? I'm leaning towards LT but am not sure yet, it's pricey.

[300extreme#8]

i know a pro am rider around here that ,has a stock yfz no motor work no after market shocks,he has +2 a arms and an axle,hmf pipe,and mx tires,he pulls holeshot everytime,and blows them away if he gets in front,both sx and mx,it's more rider then bike,if u were a pro and ur sponsers were handiing out stuff u would ride them 2,so that all the pros have lt

[CdaleXtreme]

For what you are doing a standard travel would be fine. I can say that with confidence.

But you bought a 450R not a 400EX, and You put some of the higher end performance products on your bike. I dont see why you should stop now.

Personally I thought My R sucked without a longer swingarm, motor mods and a proper suspension setup.

I know if everyone had their choice they would have the best of everything.

But it does come down to money and how much you wan to/ or have to spend on your quad. For about $300 more you can get a good, budget long travel system for your quad. Elka seems to have things dialed in these days. I highly reccomend them for your suspension needs.

[Thump_It]

Hey CDale are you responding to me, lol...

[CdaleXtreme]

Hey CDale are you responding to me, lol...


hahaha Whoever is listening. I was pretty tired when I posted that. but yes I was reffering to your post. But as for MXracer, I would say if he wants to keep disadvantages to a minium on the MX track. Go with LT.

Just my personal experience, and opinion thats all.

[Scottie Mac]

Originally posted by Thump_It
Hey Scottie, what do you think I should do If i'm gonna be doin Freestyle off ramps with a little MX and Dunes in the mix? I'm leaning towards LT but am not sure yet, it's pricey.

Like I said, the standard travel stuff will be fine, but if it were me, I would probably go long travel for one reason, if you decide to sell your quad, most people would rather have a long travel set up. CDale said it best, you are only looking at a few hundred more.

Do this, get yourself a set of Elka quad rates without rebound adjustment. Not getting rebound will offset a lot of the extra cost of the long travel shocks. MOST people don't know how to set up rebound anyway, and if you aren't really serious about racing, you won't need it.

Good luck,
Scott

[Thump_It]

Thanks for your opinion. I've talked to a few others on here, I think i'm gonna go with the LT.....now I just need to get a loan from my parents for Christmas so I can get them sooner, lol. Oh, about the Elkas....I'm gonna be gettin Axis, I have heard they're tuning is more spot on than Elkas, but both of course are still good shocks.

[86atc250r]

Here is a very quick overview...

I've got a "longtravel" setup as well as several "standard" setups.

Interesting points:

The "longtravel" shocks actually have less shaft travel than some of my 16" shocks (LT's have 5.5" shaft travel, some of my 16" shocks have 5.75"). That's a bit strange, isn't it?

What does this mean? It means that we're basically being lied to when people talk about the "advantages" the "longtravels" offer.

They do not offer more travel, they do not offer a better leverage ratio (unless they sacrifice wheel travel), they do not offer better turning, bump steer or any thing else they're touted to do.

If you really want to grasp at straws, they do hold more fluid since those extra 3" are merely unused shock body and *may* fade less (isn't that what the rezzies are for?) - and they allow more area for spring setups (The PEPs I have, have the same length of springset as my 16" shocks... So much for that)..

So --- are they worth the almost $500 extra the arms and shocks will cost you? Not even remotely - advantages are almost nil..... They do look cool though & will intimidate the guy on the starting line next to you that doesn't know any better.....

[Pappy]

Originally posted by 86atc250r


So --- are they worth the almost $500 extra the arms and shocks will cost you? Not even remotely - advantages are almost nil..... They do look cool though & will intimidate the guy on the starting line next to you that doesn't know any better.....

but gabe...the pro's run them:devil:

well said...well said:cool:

[holeshot19]

Originally posted by Pappy
but gabe...the pro's run them:devil:

well said...well said:cool: but they get there stuff for free:mad:

[WhiteBros400ex]

Originally posted by jlm996s
In the words of 86atc250r: "only if you want a lighter wallet.":rolleyes:

I agree with that:)

[CdaleXtreme]

Gabe everything youve said on these boards I have agreed with you 100% until now, not that your going to lose sleep over it or anything. :rolleyes: But I think you downplay long travel setups at little more than deserved. I feel

What you say about bumpsteer, and actual at the Wheel "Travel" Is indeed fact. But on a situation per situation basis. it is not entirely true.

I am sure some poorly Designed "ebay special" long travel front ends, dont offer much more of anything. I doubt they spend the time testing and eliminating bump steer, ball joint binding etc.

Standard travel A-arms are very limited in design hence you only see one type, a flat A-arm with a +1, 2 or 3 design. Virtually no changes in bend shock location etc. So basically assuming there is no bushing, or ball joint binding, all of the standard travels are created equal, Generally speaking.

Long travel a-arms however, differ drastically, from make to make. So I think its fair to say depending on which setup you get; your satisfaction will vary greatly. Not to mention the brand of shocks you get, and if they are setup correctly to boot.

If you are anything above a C class rider and get your wheels more than 3 feet off the ground, I would seriously consider an LT setup.

Ohh and Setups like Houser, Walsh, leager, and JB, that use a foating shock mount, that require 19 or 20 inch shocks do a have a longer shaft. than the standard travel shocks do. which results in not so much more travel, but a longer stroke or more oil displacement, wich provides much more consistent damping, and like gabe said a better leverage ration.

Setups like, the Lonestar DC4s which only take I think a 17 3/4 shock, will probly have a disadvantage, as far as Oil displacement goes. :huh

Okay im done.

[TBD]

"LT" arms and "Standards" arms can have the same wheel travel. It's the builder that regulates the wheel travel. A-arms do nothing to correct bumpsteer. The only way that can be achieved is by either changing the tierod location at the spindle or at the stem. The bend in the lower arms on some of the manufactures arms is only there to make room for a shock mount. The only points that matter is the frame pivot, the ball joint center and the location of the shock mount. The lower a arm tube could do loops and it doesn't have anything to do with the geometry of the frontend. The advantages of the "Longshock" frontend is more oil volume, more shaft velocity and a better leverage ratio. But the most improvement from a "Longshock", if the builder does his math right, is that along with a lower leverage ratio you will have a better leverage curve. Leverage curve is the most important for the fact that it will determine how your quad reacts to low speed and hi speed hits. I've been designing and building suspension components for about fifteen years so I'm not someone just typing out a uneducated reply.

[86atc250r]

more shaft velocity and a better leverage ratio. But the most improvement from a "Longshock", if the builder does his math right, is that along with a lower leverage ratio you will have a better leverage curve. Leverage curve is the most important for the fact that it will determine how your quad reacts to low speed and hi speed hits. I've been designing and building suspension components for about fifteen years so I'm not someone just typing out a uneducated reply.

That would be all fine and dandy if "Longtravel" shocks actually offered more shaft travel.

However, since they do not (in the Honda applications I've had experience with anyways) - if you improve the leverage ratio by increasing shaft velocity per unit of wheel travel, you have just lost wheel travel.

I totally agree with everything you said, but the fact remains that in the front ends I've measured shaft travel is either equal or nearly equal between "LT" and "standard" front ends --- so you're then left with the two advantages I pointed out before, additional oil volume and additional body length for spring setups. Not worth the effort in my opinion.

I'm interested though --- do you have some examples that do increase shaft travel? And if so, what are the numbers and what are the components?



Ohh and Setups like Houser, Walsh, leager, and JB, that use a foating shock mount, that require 19 or 20 inch shocks do a have a longer shaft. than the standard travel shocks do. which results in not so much more travel, but a longer stroke or more oil displacement, wich provides much more consistent damping, and like gabe said a better leverage ration.

Are you sure about that? Have you actually measured the setups and can you provide numbers? I have a Houser setup sitting in my garage right now and I can tell you for a fact and without question that it indeed does >NOT< offer any more shaft travel than a standard setup.shocks

In fact, the 19" shocks in my Houser setup offer less shaft travel than one of my "standard" shock setups. 1/4" less to be exact.

[Hammer trx450r]

Did u measure any other setups besides Houser's? If so which one's and what were the results? I just think housers are pretty close to standard looks then the other brands like gibson. It just doesn't make sense geometry wise.

[seven]

I have had both, If I had the money I would go long travel again, But only becouse it handled the small stutter bumps and such better, The big hits were the same as standard travel front end. But it is worth the money? If I had a lot of money laying around sure, but not a nacessity.

[450 Racer R]

anyone else have any thoughts on this subject?

[2k4z400racer]

Originally posted by CdaleXtreme
Gabe everything youve said on these boards I have agreed with you 100% until now, not that your going to lose sleep over it or anything. :rolleyes: But I think you downplay long travel setups at little more than deserved. I feel

What you say about bumpsteer, and actual at the Wheel "Travel" Is indeed fact. But on a situation per situation basis. it is not entirely true.

I am sure some poorly Designed "ebay special" long travel front ends, dont offer much more of anything. I doubt they spend the time testing and eliminating bump steer, ball joint binding etc.

Standard travel A-arms are very limited in design hence you only see one type, a flat A-arm with a +1, 2 or 3 design. Virtually no changes in bend shock location etc. So basically assuming there is no bushing, or ball joint binding, all of the standard travels are created equal, Generally speaking.

Long travel a-arms however, differ drastically, from make to make. So I think its fair to say depending on which setup you get; your satisfaction will vary greatly. Not to mention the brand of shocks you get, and if they are setup correctly to boot.

If you are anything above a C class rider and get your wheels more than 3 feet off the ground, I would seriously consider an LT setup.

Ohh and Setups like Houser, Walsh, leager, and JB, that use a foating shock mount, that require 19 or 20 inch shocks do a have a longer shaft. than the standard travel shocks do. which results in not so much more travel, but a longer stroke or more oil displacement, wich provides much more consistent damping, and like gabe said a better leverage ration.

Setups like, the Lonestar DC4s which only take I think a 17 3/4 shock, will probly have a disadvantage, as far as Oil displacement goes. :huh

Okay im done.


Not sure what Lonestar setup you are thinking about but on my 450r my lonestar DC4's take a 20" shock just thought I would give some info

[Ex_Rider43]

very interesting infos here.

just in time because im getting new a-arms for my 450r thanks!

[beak7707]

So for XC racing are you guys saying LT really wont help at all, since there are no big jumps.