416ex's.........What did you use?

[RIDER11X]

What cam, compression, piston, carb, pipe, clutch, and other mods did you use? I am getting ready to get one built for XC, and want to get it done right. Thanks for any info.:cool:

[hondarider2006]

on my 416 motor I used...

10:8.1 JE piston
Hot cam stage 2
HMF sliencer and stock header with grinded welds(until I got the TC)
stock carb, later on I got a bored out start carb.
stock clutch
Stiffer valver springs
Magnum rev box



That lasted about 3 months until I ran it out of oil....yeah don't do that:o

[Rico]

Bored .080 over to 416cc
XR400 cam
JE Piston 10.8:1 Compression
Hinson Clutch Basket
Cometic Gaskets
Sparks Racing 8 Plate Clutch w/Heavy Springs
Sparks Heavy Duty Cam Chain
Sparks Racing Modified Carb
Lightened Flywheel
GT Thunder Porting
GT Thunder CDI
GT Thunder Air Box Intake Tube
FMF Powerbong Header
Red HMF Silencer with quiet core
K&N Filter w/Outerwear
Dynojets
Motor oil - Mobil 1 15W-50 Synthetic

Very reliable and has been going strong for 3 years. But this year it will finally get new rings.

[foleyit]

Haven't had any problems with this setup. Here is a list of items that I have on my 416 now for just over 1 year:

Sparks Racing 416 w/ 12.5:1 JE Piston
Port & polished head
Full-race 3-angle valve job
39mm FCR Carb
Stage 2 hotcam
Dynatek Ignition
K&N Filter w/ - airbox outerwear,
WB R4 Pro Meg exhaust system,
Hinson clutch basket,
Hinson hub and pressure plate
Sparks Racing 8 Plate Clutch w/Heavy Spring

[quadkrazy400ex]

i used the following, which seems to work awesome

10.8:1 Ross Racing Piston
left the head alone to preserve some bottom end
stage 2 hotcam
GT Thunder CDI box
K&N w/outerwears
complete Yoshimura RS-3 stainless exhaust
stock carb with a 170 main jet using dynojet jet kit ( in kansas)
for motor oil, i use Amsoil in mine

[khen]

- 416 11:1 Wisco piston
- Cometic top end gaskets
- Hotcam Stage 2 cam
- Port and polish(done by myself)
- Zaps unlimited rev CDI
- Stock exhaust modified to a straight through design and shortened.
- FMF Powerbomb header
- Tusk heavy duty clutch
- 14 Tooth front sprocket
- Stock carb w/moded airbox, UNI filter, 155 main jet and 42 pilot(4500' above sea level)
- Mobil 1 redcap oil

I'm really suprised that this still has the bottom end that it does and it has lots of mid and top end.

[Florida400EX]

10.8:1 JE piston, Hotcams stg. 2 cam, stock clutch, Pro Circuit full pipe, Twin Air Filter. Had awsome midrange pull.

[dunedragger]

Ported and Polished head to match the intake and exhaust ports, S.S. valves, 3 angle valve job, W.B. rev limiter, K&N FIlter, stock carb with a 175 jet, No air box, smaller sprocket up front, Barnett Racing Clutch, Wisco 11:5 to 1 compresseion Piston, Webbs Cam with a 1870 grind(all bottom and Mid range). Pro-Meg R4 Stainless Steel exhaust and pipe. Add 112 octane fuel and you get 39 h.p., with 29 ft. lbs. of torque. I had it dyno'd at Little Sahara when N'Motion was there from Wichita, KS.

[cals400ex]

here is my setup:

-thermal coated ross 426 piston with light piston pin
-LA sleeve
-aggressive port job
-thermally coated x-6
-stage 2 and TC mx grind cams
-CRF 450 timing chain
-sparks clutch
-sparks and gt thunder rev boxes
-thin cosmetic flex steel head gasket
-no base gasket, sealed with hondabond
-FCR 40mm carb
-i am in the process of getting a lightened flywheel, but don't have it done yet so i don't know if it makes a difference.


i think a lot really depends on how much you want to spend. you can add the prices up quickly by thermally coatting valves, pipes, cams, pistons, etc. i really don't know if it helps or not, but i figured i would try it. the lighter piston pin is actually a bit lighter than the standard pin. i think i would do that and coat the piston if i had to do it again.
for a bare minimum, i would start off with:

1. a higher compression 416 piston
2. a cam that suites your riding style
3. a good FULL pipe
with these 3, you should be good to go for starters. of course, you will need to tinker with the jetting.

i know i have not always been a firm believe in pipes on a 400ex adding a ton of power. my buddy has a mild 10:1 406 with stage 2 hotcam. his bike was an absolute terd. he could never touch a piped Z400. we didn't know why. we were wondering maybe because it is lower compression. well he was running a white brothers R4 slip on and a stock header with the welds ground out. he finally decided to buy a full hmf that i found for a good price used on here. oh my god, it made a huge differnce. i would say by putting that pipe on vs his R4 slip on setup, he gained as much power as he did by putting a cam and piston in his bike. i about dropped in shock after seeing how he got a nice gain out of a pipe.

good luck

[400exracer511]

i went extremely cheap with a je 10.8:1 comp. w/ cometic gaskets and stage II hotcam i already had k&n filter and e series slip on i probably would have gotten a HMF full system but when i got into the motor i found that my rocker arms were worn out (5 year old bike) by next racing season ill hopefully have full HMF system and Big gun rev box

[speedy400]

Bored .080 over to 416cc
Hotcamstg2
JE Piston 10.8:1 Compression
Hinson Clutch Basket
Cometic Gaskets
Barnett Clutch w/Heavy Springs
FCR 39mm carb
My Porting, and polishing
Open aluminum airbox
Unifilter
FMF Powerbong Header
Red HMF Silencer with quiet core
Motor oil - Mobil 1 15W-50 Synthetic

-darren

[dunedragger]

One thing I forgot to tell ya, or warn ya that is. If you race on dry dirt and your tires are hookin up alot, keep an eye on your front sprocket. The teeth will start to bend if you do not change it out right away.

[Quadzilla]

Used this setup. Worked very nice, but now I have a YFZ. I REALLY hate to say this, but my built 416 was not even close to my piped/jetted YFZ... Loved that 416, but that Yam motor spanks it. You may flame away, but I've had both and yes the 416 was built right (would SPANK piped Z400's). Anyway, had the mods on my 416 listed below and it ran very very well...

[torqen2k1]

Well I have a 426 .120 over.
- Weisco 11:1
-Stage 2hot cam
-Cosmetic gaskets
- Ported Polished head
-3 angle valve job
-Yoshi full exhaust
-38mm carb no choke
-Open air box 175main jet
-OMF air scoops
-Mobil 1 red cap
-And always ever sinece day she only sees racing gas!

I like it and to tell you the truth the came is very good on trailing. I kinda regret going .120 over because now I want a bigger oil cooler

[khen]

Originally posted by Quadzilla
Used this setup. Worked very nice, but now I have a YFZ. I REALLY hate to say this, but my built 416 was not even close to my piped/jetted YFZ... Loved that 416, but that Yam motor spanks it. You may flame away, but I've had both and yes the 416 was built right (would SPANK piped Z400's). Anyway, had the mods on my 416 listed below and it ran very very well... I agree that the piped/jetted YFZ will beat most(if not all) 416's in a long drag race. My 416 seems to compete through gear 3 though, and that's all I care about. I have to work a bit harder, but that's cool with me. I think it's more rewarding when you beat the new 450's with a 416 on the track. Plus if a YFZ beats you, you can say it was his bike not his skill. :D

I obviously don't race pro though..

[gump]

anyone doing this to a z400 ? just curious cause i want mo power with out big bore, just a little more grunt down low..

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by Rico
Bored .080 over to 416cc
XR400 cam
JE Piston 10.8:1 Compression
Hinson Clutch Basket
Cometic Gaskets
Sparks Racing 8 Plate Clutch w/Heavy Springs
Sparks Heavy Duty Cam Chain
Sparks Racing Modified Carb
Lightened Flywheel
GT Thunder Porting
GT Thunder CDI
GT Thunder Air Box Intake Tube
FMF Powerbong Header
Red HMF Silencer with quiet core
K&N Filter w/Outerwear
Dynojets
Motor oil - Mobil 1 15W-50 Synthetic

Very reliable and has been going strong for 3 years. But this year it will finally get new rings.

How does the XR400 compare to like say the Hot Cams Stage 2? And did the lightened flywheel help out a good bit? Thanks!

[hondarider2006]

Originally posted by RIDER11X
How does the XR400 compare to like say the Hot Cams Stage 2? And did the lightened flywheel help out a good bit? Thanks!

I believe the XR cam is similar to the Hot Cam stage 1

[cals400ex]

the xr is a bit less aggressive than a stage 1 hotcam.

[Flynbryan19]

Originally posted by gump
anyone doing this to a z400 ? just curious cause i want mo power with out big bore, just a little more grunt down low..

Gump you can get a high comp piston, and a more aggresive cam. That will help out quite a bit. ;)

[hondarider2006]

Originally posted by Flynbryan19
Gump you can get a high comp piston, and a more aggresive cam. That will help out quite a bit. ;)

Also an aftermarket rev box would be nice. On the Z's the stock rev box hits at such a low rpm...

[Quadzilla]

I can tell you this. Having the HotCams Stage 2 will let you rev to the moon while still making power BUT you will lose low-end. My 416 had milder low-end but really hit hard in the middle and especially on top. The stock CDI would no longer do because in 1st and second, I would hit the rev limiter in the snap of a finger. I went with the GT Thunder CDI and the difference was huge! Good luck!

[markk]

Im running
Weisco 11-1 pistion
Hotcams stage1
a little bit of porting
Dyno jet 170 main
Uni filter
Cut airbox lid with OUTERWEAR attached over the holes!
rev box

She is on her last breath so i changed from Schaeffer 1-40 to a Schaeffer 20-50, Does anyone else run Schaeffers oil products??? They seam to work great 4-me!!!!

Also, I would go with the Stage two hotcams!!!!! expecally cuz the 416 revs quick, and like the HIGH R's

[quadkrazy400ex]

i have a rev limiter that raises the bikes limit by 1000rpm if your interested

[RIDER11X]

What cams need hardened rockers? My builder is reccomending the TC Racing Xc grind cam. Anyone use that one?

[CTmxyfz]

416cc 10.8-1 compression
JE piston
HRC cam
Curtis sparks valve spring kit
Ported head
Full Hinson clutch kit, including everything
HMF slip on.
Open lid custom airbox with KandN


Did well enough for me to whoop piped yfzs and piped 450rs, a heavily modded raptor, modded cannondales, banshees, heavy modded yfz and heavy modded 450r at an MX race 2 weekends ago. Im damned happy with this thing.

Going to look into a 39mm or 41mm carb for it. What would you guys recommend for some more mods. I don't know too much about the 400exs as my race bike is a yfz. This is only a practice bike but i decided to race it anyway.

[Quadzilla]

I had pretty much the same setup as you on my 416. While it was WORLDS faster than a piped 400EX or Z400, it's still no YFZ beater, that's for sure. If you are talking MX, maybe you are a better rider than the other quads you raced, but in drag races, you aren't beating a properly piped an jetted YFZ if both riders a competent.

I'll tell you why this is virtually impossible. The physics just don't add up:

A properly done 416EX puts out between 37 - 42 hp in most cases (depending on carb, porting, etc). A properly piped and jetted YFZ puts out between 45 - 50 hp.

Remember that a YFZ weighs roughly 25 lbs or so lighter than a EX.

Again, I've had em both (at the same time) and dragged raced them (using a skilled friend) and dragged several other machines. I speak from facts and experience. A properly done EX is a GREAT machine, but no YFZ killer...

[CTmxyfz]

Yes, it was an MX race. I took first overall in the Novice class. You want a picture of the trophy?? winning is winning. guess im a good rider or something. But why would i lie?? I didn't take holeshot at all. Best holeshot was third into the corner. We don't drag up here in New england. I also have a yfz too.

I don't have any real action shots with anyone around me because i won by a 3/4 of a lap.

[2000ex]

If you are looking for an xc machine I would stick with a JE or Ross 10.8:1 piston and cam it with either an xr400 cam or the stage 1 from hotcams.

You will have the bottom end grunt you are looking for, and a much better top end than a stocker.

For MX I would say the Stage 2 may be a better option

[CTmxyfz]

Quadzilla, you can ask 2000ex about the race too, because i beat him. lol, sorry 2000! you do have a damned sick dale though.

[Flynbryan19]

Unfortunately, just because you beat someone in an MX race doesn't mean you have a superior machine. MX is more about rider ability than sheer horsepower......

Case in point:

Before James Stewart became a pro(or even before he rode a 125) he would come to our local district 13 races and WIN BY SOMETIMES 30+ seconds in the 125A class on a Kx80!!!

There is no way that machine was superior to a A level 125cc mx bike, but he beat them by RIDER ABILITY. I'm sure you have a nice Ex, but its no Yfz beater..... Your just a better rider.

[CTmxyfz]

what the hell you think im trying to say? i just started racing in july because i had to be 16. anyways, i raced 4 races and almost made top 10 in points. the kid who won the 4 stroke C champisonship had a 416ex!! it was nuts. kid made me wonder how the hell could he do it.

[2000ex]

Quadzilla, you can ask 2000ex about the race too, because i beat him. lol, sorry 2000! you do have a damned sick dale though.

Thanks for the complement. We'll see about next season :devil:
That was the 4th time I had ridden a quad all year. I fully intend on racing the whole series next year and look forward to some good battles. :D

I kinda wish I had my 416 for that race because I would have done much better....only picked up the 'Dale a week before and rode it once

[CTmxyfz]

that dale is sick though!!! there will be some good battles next year. Im not letting you off that easy though.:macho

[dunedragger]

You cant always look at h.p. H.P. is what keeps you goin, Torque gets you out of the hole. For the correction earlier on how much h.p. the stock yfz puts out, its 38, piping and rejetting will only add about 6-7 h.p. Now when you start putting in cams, and pistons you may get to 50 in a hurry. I watched a 440 ex on notrious get dyno'd, 42 without, and 50 with a boost. I raced a 300 foot sand drag in Ponca City against a 475 yfz, and this guy drags professionally and he beat me by 2 tenths of a second, Im sorry I am not impressed witheither the two 450's that are out there.

[jja125]

rider11x


i thought you were switching to utility quads from now on??

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by jja125
rider11x


i thought you were switching to utility quads from now on??

I think I got an EX addiction........Just can't make the change.:p

[hondarider2006]

Originally posted by RIDER11X
I think I got an EX addiction........Just can't make the change.:p


I think all of us who own an EX have that addiction;)

[Dave400ex]

I have the TC XC grind cam. I like it a lot, for bottom end it has helped a lot. I think if I had to do it over again, I would have the Head fully ported/polished as well.

[RIDER11X]

I'm planning to meet with the guy that is doing my motor tomorrow, and now I got some ideas of what I want to do. I realize it won't be a YFZ eater.......Unless......someone doesn't do their part on their machine.;)
Will additional cooling be needed in the woods with the 416? And would a 406 be better in the woods by chance because of this?:confused:

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by hondarider2006
I think all of us who own an EX have that addiction;)
I even considered going to buy a KTM bike in place of my 400ex.........Couldn't do that either.........:p

[hondarider2006]

Originally posted by RIDER11X
I'm planning to meet with the guy that is doing my motor tomorrow, and now I got some ideas of what I want to do. I realize it won't be a YFZ eater.......Unless......someone doesn't do their part on their machine.;)
Will additional cooling be needed in the woods with the 416? And would a 406 be better in the woods by chance because of this?:confused:

You will be fine with the 416. Just get some air scoops, and once you have it broekn in, switch to synthetic oil. Also make sure your jetting is right, that will help with temp. a lot;)

[CTmxyfz]

Originally posted by hondarider2006
I think all of us who own an EX have that addiction;)

Thats why you get more than 1. Our stocker in so damn slow compared to the 416. But EXs are still fun bikes indeed:chinese:

[Dave400ex]

The 416 runs well in the woods. I like my setup quite a bit, I would add some Porting, a Hinson Basket, and maybe a Cam Chain though if I did it again. I am using the Sparks 8 plate for the clutch and it has worked nice.

[RIDER11X]

Sooo, is extra cooling needed for an 416 XC application, or is it just an option? If so, Am I better off with a extra capacity tank, or the extra capacity oil cooler?:confused:

[markk]

Heat really isn't a problem on any 416 that i have ever saw. Now when u push it out to a 426, Then the sleave is pushed out to the max, and i hear they do have alot of heat problems!

[RIDER11X]

Well, scratch the possibility of the larger oil cooler, Desert Toyz doesn't list their huge oil cooler anymore.......:( Just in case I go with one, what is the best oil tank on the market?

But, hopefully I won't even need one.........:cool:

[JD400exrider]

My 416 ex very reliable with these mods.

JE 10-8. 1
HRC cam
CHM Ported Head
Heavy Duty Clutch springs on OEM clutch
Coated Power Bomb Header
CHM Slip on (Carmichael Honda Motor Sports)
FCR 39 Carb
New cam chain
EHS Air Box Lid Uni Filter
Pingry Oil Tank
Mobil 1 10/40 4 stroke Syntetic Oil

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by JD400exrider
My 416 ex very reliable with these mods.

JE 10-8. 1
HRC cam
CHM Ported Head
Heavy Duty Clutch springs on OEM clutch
Coated Power Bomb Header
CHM Slip on (Carmichael Honda Motor Sports)
FCR 39 Carb
New cam chain
EHS Air Box Lid Uni Filter
Pingry Oil Tank
Mobil 1 10/40 4 stroke Syntetic Oil

I see you use the HRC cam.......Aren't those around $4-500? Does it supply more top end power, or bottom end power. The reason being, I am still deciding on my cam choice as well. I like the MX stle power, but wonder how it would do in the woods.

[Dave400ex]

If you go with one of the TC Cams you will be very happy.

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by Dave400ex
If you go with one of the TC Cams you will be very happy.
After reading alot of threads like http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1352846#post1352846 I plan to go with a XC cam from TC Racing to stay within the limits of the stock CDI unit, as this is where I believe the 400ex is meant to make it's power. JMO.:cool:

[JD400exrider]

Originally posted by RIDER11X
I see you use the HRC cam.......Aren't those around $4-500? Does it supply more top end power, or bottom end power. The reason being, I am still deciding on my cam choice as well. I like the MX stle power, but wonder how it would do in the woods.

The HRC cam was around 250.00 if I remember right. You can look it up at service honda Part # 14000-NKK-000. It gives good mid to top end power but did not loose any low end. I ride the woods about 90% of the time. Works very well. I don't think you can go wrong with the TC cross country cam either. Either one would be a good choice.

[cals400ex]

from what i read the TC cam will provide more low end power where the hrc will open the bike up more midrange through the rev limiter. i would go more aggressive than the TC unless you just woods race, but that is my opinion.

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by cals400ex
from what i read the TC cam will provide more low end power where the hrc will open the bike up more midrange through the rev limiter. i would go more aggressive than the TC unless you just woods race, but that is my opinion.

I really want the grunt type motor, as I like to run 15/36 gearing to enable me to get some serious top speed where conditions permit to get some ground on those 450's. ;) However I will consider the HRC, as I like the Honda quality thing.:cool:

[Rico]

My HRC Cam should be arriving today, along with the rest of the motor, from GT THunder...:D I"ll be doing a small review on the HRC Cam, nothing special.

The TC Cam is bottom end only, NO topend, kinda like the XR Cam. The HRC Cam is an increase all over and from what I"ve read really shines in the Mid Range area. I can't wait ta get mine back together...:devil:

And yes the HRC Cam is around $250 -275 range. Laz had the best price I could find on one..

[cals400ex]

yes, rico said basically what i have read about the hrc. i think the hrc shines in mid range. if you like bouncing off the rev limiter, go for a stage 2 hotcam. i believe my TCmx grind cam produced a bit more power up to peak rpm, then the stage 2 might have reved a bit higher. it was tough to tell though. i would love to try the hrc but i don't want to buy another cam.


rider11x, i have tried 15/36 gearing before. it was terrible on my bike. i think the only reason it was bad is because my x-6 pipe. my buddies x-4 of hmf doesn't seem to have a problem with the taller gearing. my x-6 does rev higher than theirs and suffers on the low end power. my bike was much much quicker with 15/38 gearing. i mean in a drag race i would gain several bike lengths. i am not saying you have to change or your wrong, i am just saying what didn't work on my bike. i am not sure what pipe you run either. it took me probably around 1/2 mile for 15/36 gearing to start catching, which i never drag race that far anyways so it was usesless for me. the only other thing i can think of is that it was an aluminum 36 tooth sprocket that was really light. i can't see that making a difference but it was something worth noting. i honestly think you would benefit much more from a more aggressive cam(hrc, stage 2, TC mx) and lower the gearing a bit. just something to try.

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by cals400ex
yes, rico said basically what i have read about the hrc. i think the hrc shines in mid range. if you like bouncing off the rev limiter, go for a stage 2 hotcam. i believe my TCmx grind cam produced a bit more power up to peak rpm, then the stage 2 might have reved a bit higher. it was tough to tell though. i would love to try the hrc but i don't want to buy another cam.


rider11x, i have tried 15/36 gearing before. it was terrible on my bike. i think the only reason it was bad is because my x-6 pipe. my buddies x-4 of hmf doesn't seem to have a problem with the taller gearing. my x-6 does rev higher than theirs and suffers on the low end power. my bike was much much quicker with 15/38 gearing. i mean in a drag race i would gain several bike lengths. i am not saying you have to change or your wrong, i am just saying what didn't work on my bike. i am not sure what pipe you run either. it took me probably around 1/2 mile for 15/36 gearing to start catching, which i never drag race that far anyways so it was usesless for me. the only other thing i can think of is that it was an aluminum 36 tooth sprocket that was really light. i can't see that making a difference but it was something worth noting. i honestly think you would benefit much more from a more aggressive cam(hrc, stage 2, TC mx) and lower the gearing a bit. just something to try.

Are you running a stock CDI with your TC MX cam? I would like gains in more than just the bottom end, but don't want to be always needing to rev the crap out of it. What is the cost of the TC MX cam? If it is close to the HRC, maybe the HRC is the best bet for me.......................Can you say "CONFUSED"......:confused:

I guess I want a great running motor that is durable, and not in need of frequent rebuilds, So I'm trying to stay within the limits of the stock rev limiter........

Thanks to everyone that is posting here to try to get me informed!:cool:

[Rico]

My 416 with 10.8 piston went for 3 years and finally needed the sleeve replaced. To the untrained eye it looked fine, but I sent it to Laz to have it measured and checked and he said the top of it was wore out and scratched, but to most people they would have put new rings in, slapped it back together an went on, only to have it smoke within a month or 2. I"ve glad I sent it off to him. I've had no problems at all with mine and consider it very durable. Your headed in the right direction with the idea of building to be reliable and not having the thought of "I want every got dam bit of power out of this thing that I can get"

the Biggest thing to remember is the more aggressive the cam and compression is, the harder it is on the rest of the motor.

I believe TC Cams either XC or the MX run around $200 and I"ve heard nothing but good things about his cams. But each cam is designed for it's application and you wont' get the best of both worlds with either cam, like you could with a HRC cam.

I have all intentions of running stock gearing with my new setup. I like running 14/38 with 22 rears but I can run 15/38 with the 22's and still be fine, I don't HAVE to change gearing like a stocker motor would need when going to a rear 22.

NOw on the CDI. When you figure out exactly what you'll be building your motor with. COntact Laz tell him what you have installed and your riding/racing interests and he'll hook you up with the proper CDI for your riding applications. I have a low RPM curve CDI from him and I"m not real sure how it will work with the new HRC Cam. IF I don't like it then I"ll get another one and see how I like it..:D

[400exrider707]

These posts have been very informational. I plan on pulling my EX apart this winter when I get some money. I need to an overbore, cause its starting to smoke now. I had originally planned on doing the smallest overbore possilbe, but the way you guys talk the 416 is reallly reliable. I'd like some more info on this. I would like to do the 416, either XR400 cam, or stage 1 hot cam, while I have the motor apart new heavy duty cam chain, and a new clutch. I've got a few questions. If I put either one of those cams in, is there anything else I need to do??? I've never done a cam, but it doesn't seem to be that difficult. If I just put a 416 piston in and a cam, will I have reliability problems if I do nothing else?? Any other mods you would recommend doing to keep the reliablity up? Ive always run full synthetic, so my oil is good (Klotz 10-40). Will a bigger oil tank be necessary?? Any more info would be great. Thanks guys

[Rico]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
If I just put a 416 piston in and a cam, will I have reliability problems if I do nothing else?? Any other mods you would recommend doing to keep the reliablity up? Ive always run full synthetic, so my oil is good (Klotz 10-40). Will a bigger oil tank be necessary?? Any more info would be great. Thanks guys

I did the 416 piston and cam mod and no others and ran it for over a year with no problem at all. 8 plate clutch is a very nice mod to add but not a must. Bigger oil tank is not a must either, I"m still runnin my stocker and have no plans of going to a bigger one.

[Doibugu2]

I think just as long as you keep your compression 11 or less you will be fine.

It's just a matter of mixing and matching parts to see what suits you best. Unfortunatly you can't try them on the spot, unless your Pappy who just has 10 quads laying around.

I kind of regret selling my FCR cause it made a big difference, I just couldn't get it to run good.:( But I could tell it a big difference between it and my stocker.

[Dave400ex]

I suggest for you guys doing motor upgrades to give Laz a call or email him. He can get you the best setup for the 400.

[cals400ex]

i am thinking my TC mx cam was $205 shipped with a stock one given to him as a core. i realize you want a cam that you can use the stock rev box with. my TC cam does fine with the stock box but i would but i rev it past that. the most common problem i see when i drag other ex's is that they don't rev it high enough. i know it is harder on the motor the higher you rev it but it really helps for dragging. on the other hand, i see you don't do much dragging. it sounds like the HRC might be good for you. i have a feeling you will still be hitting the stock rev box with that. my buddy actually hit it dragging wtih a stage 1 hotcam, well that was after he put on his full exhaust. for woods riding, it may not be a problem. i see how your confused.

[400exrider707]

Yeah, I can always purchase a rev box for mine after the mods, if it needs it cause they're pretty cheap now. I'm definitley putting in a new clutch w/ stiffer springs though. The few things I was worried about was if its ok to put in the piston and cam and do nothing else. I know some cams are not just drop in cams, but I think the xr 400 cam and the hot cams stage 1 Ill be alright with. I can get a stage 1 for like $115. I plan on keeping my compression close to stock too, cause I dont feel like buying race gas, and overhearting all the time! I just want to add a little more oomph to close the gap between me and the 450's. It can be done. So if I do my clutch kit, (prolly EBC or maybe Barnett) 426 piston and a stage 1 cam, I should be alright then? Also what pistons are you guys running? I was thinking of going with the wiseco, but I see a lot of you guys are running J.E. Any bads/goods or is it just a preference? Price difference?? Thanks guys

[Quadzilla]

I can tell u this. I had a 416 (Ross 10.6:1 with thinner gaskets = 11.?:1) and a stage 2 Hotcam. When I had those done, the motor NEEDED a new CDI. I would nail the stock CDI in 2 seconds flat on 1st and 2nd gear. I bought one from Laz (GT Thunder) and it made a WORLD of difference. Honestly, it was not the best motor for the woods. It loved upper r's, but suffered a bit down low. I also had a Sparks X-6 pipe and 40mm FCR carb on this setup. Ran like a raped date. Still no match for my piped YFZ but ran circles around a stock/piped 400EX motor and even a piped Z400 motor. If I were to do it again, I'd get more of a mid-range cam (Hotcams stage 1 or HRC, etc). But then again, I ride east coast woods. My 416 would have been great in the dunes. Hate to say it on this site but my piped YFZ rocks. Even my killler 416 setup (below) is not close...

[Dave400ex]

400exrider707: For the clutch go with the Sparks or GT Thunder 8 plate setup. Those are much better then the EBC and Barnett.
I suggest getting a JE or Ross piston rather it be a 416 or 426. I am running 10.8:1 compression on pump gas with no problems. I think that would work well for you also. I don't think you will be as happy with the XR400 or Stage 1 as much as you would a HRC or another all around cam. You would be better off with one of those.

[400exrider707]

As far as clutches go, I dont really plan to do any more mods to my quad if I do get this done, so I dont see the need for the 8 plate clutch system, plus I'm poor! I really dont abuse my clutch. Why do you suggest those cams??? HRC's are really expensive! Plus the numbers are not too far off from stage 1 hot cams if I'm not mistaken. I'm trying to avoid doing all of the headwork that comes along with the more "aggressive" cams. I jsut need a little more oomph so I figured a stage 1 hotcam for $115 isn't a bad deal. I've never heard of Ross pistons until I started coming on here. What makes them any better than wiseco or JE? Whats the price difference?

[dunedragger]

With the extra torque you will need to check your front sprocket. Also depending on the cam you choose, you may need hardened rockers, new valves and springs. Remember may need. Just a suggestion. Remember your cheapets h.p. will come from loosing extra pounds. every 8 pounds is like gaining one h.p.:muscle:

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
As far as clutches go, I dont really plan to do any more mods to my quad if I do get this done, so I dont see the need for the 8 plate clutch system, plus I'm poor! I really dont abuse my clutch. Why do you suggest those cams??? HRC's are really expensive! Plus the numbers are not too far off from stage 1 hot cams if I'm not mistaken. I'm trying to avoid doing all of the headwork that comes along with the more "aggressive" cams. I jsut need a little more oomph so I figured a stage 1 hotcam for $115 isn't a bad deal. I've never heard of Ross pistons until I started coming on here. What makes them any better than wiseco or JE? Whats the price difference?


the benefit of the ross pistons is that they are lighter. they are quite similar to the je actually, but lighter. also, you can get a lightened piston pin from them to make it even lighter. i have ran two rosses and wouldn't change unless i had an engine builder build a custom setup for me. the price is the same in je and ross.

i will sell you my stage 1 hotcam for $70. pm me if interested. cal

[JD400exrider]

Rider 11X
I was confused as you are when I was ready to upgrade. . I think Rico and others hit it on the head. Stay under the 11.1 compression and you can run pump gas. Lower compression is also easier on the crank. I was ready to buy heavier valve springs at the time. I was told by a three different engine builders that could have easily taken my money it was not needed. Keep in mind the HRC cam is a honda cam that was produced for the XR 400 motor cycle. The cam is part of a "hop up kit" for the bike. Cam, carb jets, heavy duty clutch spings and a gear back in behind the clutch that is changed on the bike. The HRC cam still has the decompression gizmo also where as the other cams do not. I really don't think it makes a difference though. I did not mind spending the extra money on the HRC for the reliablity factor and where I wanted the power range to be. When I did mine not allot of people on here were using the HRC cam. Most were going with the Hot cams stage 1 or 2.
Rico was one person that influenced my decision on the HRC. Now I am waiting to see what his review is now that he has one for his motor. I am going to upgrade my CDI box to one of GT thunder boxes. I bought one from a local dealer and used it for a while. I think it is one that comes off a XR bike. Sounds like the GT thunder can dial it in just what you want.

In time (when extra money comes along) get a FCR or your stock carb bored and worked. That will make a difference. I like the FCR 39 with my motor.

Good Luck

[YZROOSTINYA]

je piston - 416

xr head gasket running only the middle plate
no base gasket
stage 2 hottie
168 main i think right now???
45 pilot
trick flow 38mm carb bore
pro fab almost full race port, just below
WB pro meg full system with turn downs and no discs
3 angle vale job by pro fab.
dpr9z sparker

mix race c12 with 93

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by YZROOSTINYA
je piston - 416

xr head gasket running only the middle plate
no base gasket
stage 2 hottie
168 main i think right now???
45 pilot
trick flow 38mm carb bore
pro fab almost full race port, just below
WB pro meg full system with turn downs and no discs
3 angle vale job by pro fab.
dpr9z sparker

mix race c12 with 93
What compression ratio is it? Curious.......;)

[cals400ex]

it is a 10.8:1 piston. with his gaskets an no base gasket it is tough to tell the real ratio. i think a lot of it would depend on how close the rated ratio is to 10.8:1. you could measure this though.

[RIDER11X]

I found a deal on a Stage 1 Hotcam, will the stock Carb work well with this and a 416 bore? Or not.......I hate to spend alot more right now.

[400exrider707]

good question Im going to be doing the same mods..............

[JD400exrider]

Originally posted by RIDER11X
I found a deal on a Stage 1 Hotcam, will the stock Carb work well with this and a 416 bore? Or not.......I hate to spend alot more right now.


If that is the cam you want to run. The stock carb will work fine with the stage 1.

[cals400ex]

yeah, the stock carb is fine. i currently run a stock one. the stock one just suffers on throttle response vs the fcr's.

[chucked]

Originally posted by cals400ex
yeah, the stock carb is fine. i currently run a stock one. the stock one just suffers on throttle response vs the fcr's.

wow my throttle response is amazing with a stock carb right now, I cant wait until I get an FCR

[cals400ex]

yes, the throttle response is much greater with the fcr's. the throw on the thorttle lever is just much shorter. it may feel like you gained 10 horsepower, but in reality your not. my bike isn't much different in drag racing wtih the stock vs fcr. now that i am running a 426, it does help though.

[devildriver422]

what cam would i want i dont want hardened rockers or anything but i mostly want more power for trails and slower wheelies but still want to be able to rip on drags

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by devildriver422
what cam would i want i dont want hardened rockers or anything but i mostly want more power for trails and slower wheelies but still want to be able to rip on drags

I think the thread you are looking for is:

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1365881#post1365881post1365881

[motoboy66]

Is the XR cam a drop in? It looks to have some extra parts on the parts finder at RIVA. DO you have to buy anything besides the cam?

[motoboy66]

Now that I looked again, they look the same. I guess I have never seen a stock cam, only aftermarket ones without the decompression stuff.

[Rico]

Originally posted by motoboy66
Is the XR cam a drop in? It looks to have some extra parts on the parts finder at RIVA. DO you have to buy anything besides the cam?

Yes it's a drop in cam, you don't need any extra parts to install it besides a service manual. New valve seals would be a good idea while you got it apart.

It is a more aggressive cam over stock but is mainly a bottem end/mid range cam.

[tryken]

How do I know what compression my piston is? I got a JE, from the looks of this thread it is either 12.5 to 1 or 10.8 to 1. If this helps the box says the comp height is 1.035. I also got a hot cams stage 2. Havn't decided between a full Curtis Sparks x6 or just adding a fmf powerbomb header to my WB E-series slip on. Please help with this decision. The cylinder is going to get bored tomorrow.

[devildriver422]

thanks rider11x

[Rico]

Originally posted by tryken
How do I know what compression my piston is? I got a JE, from the looks of this thread it is either 12.5 to 1 or 10.8 to 1. If this helps the box says the comp height is 1.035. I also got a hot cams stage 2. Havn't decided between a full Curtis Sparks x6 or just adding a fmf powerbomb header to my WB E-series slip on. Please help with this decision. The cylinder is going to get bored tomorrow.

I'd be finding out what kind of compression piston it is, because if you install the 12.5:1, you'll be spending $4.50 on a gallon of gas to run in that thing....:eek2:

[tryken]

I know, I was hoping someone on here would be able to help.

[YZROOSTINYA]

for a TRUE 10.8:1 you need to take out the base and run the middle plate of thr XR head gasket.

a reg 10.8:1 piston with stock gaskets is more like 10.2:1 or close to that.

plus this gives you the proper quench/squish

[tryken]

plus this gives you the proper quench/squish

What does that mean?

[CTmxyfz]

Originally posted by Rico
I'd be finding out what kind of compression piston it is, because if you install the 12.5:1, you'll be spending $4.50 on a gallon of gas to run in that thing....:eek2:


im talking 6.00 a gallon to run my 450:eek: :eek: See why i have a practice 416? Its chepear to run!:devil:

[YZROOSTINYA]

sorry, you need to run the top and bottom of the three parthead gasket. the middl eyou take out.

the area above the dome of the piston as it sits in the head is your sqiush/quench. sorta. people that know more can explain it better

[400-416EX]

This is the setup I used for motocross and the bike ran flawlessly
Bored to 10.8:1 Je piston
full race port and polish
race 3 angle valve job
Stage 2 hotcam
Barnett dirt digger clutch
Edelbrock quicksiver carb bored for the 416
White brothers e2 exhaust
UNI air filter with no lid and outerwear
Hope this helps

[Quadzilla]

Substitute a Ross for the JE piston
Substitute a Sparks or GT Thunder 8 plate clutch for the Digger
Substitute a Kehein FCR carb for the Eldebrock

And you'll have a winner!