Roll Design frame

I think I have decided to get a complete Roll Design frame.But I have a few question for the people who have a Roll Design frame or parts, or know somethingabout them, before I make up my mind and buy one:

Is the seat height lower than stock?
Were there any problem fitting any of you other parts to the Roll Design frame (Engine, Plastic, Accessories, Etc.)?
What Roll Design parts did you get, are you happy with your purchase?
What A-arm did you get or recomend (brand and size)?
What shocks did you get or recomend (brand and adjustability)?
How much wheel travel did/would that give you?
Is there anything else I should know about Roll Design frames/parts?


Thank for all your help.
Chris

Originally posted by killer98warrior

Is there anything else I should know about Roll Design frames/parts?



Yeah there way over priced and I hope you have about $10,000 sittin around for this chassis upgrade your lookin at,,cuz that $10,000 figure is probably pretty close....

On a side note,,roll design is top notch equipment..and they don't make products for warriors..:cool:

[Honda Guy]

is it for a warrior?

[Dave400ex]

Well another Bad thing is you will be Waiting a Year for that Setup.

[Foxrage]

If your building one from the ground up you could get a laeger chasiss, T pin front end so you dont have to buy spindles some PEP Zps and laeger swing arm. about all of it for cheaper than the lobo. They are nice frames though but just what i prefer.

[hetrick425ex]

yep PRO-TRAX all the way, the best chassis available!!! Lobo is nice dont get me wrong but duuudddeee go laeger PT with ZPS!!!
and i hope your not doing all this to a warrior they only make the protrax fronts for 250r's sooooo
later

[mrusk]

Walsh is the only way to go. But unless your a pro i think a arens frame with a long travel front end with some zps shocks will be good enough for you.

matt

[Dave400ex]

Laeger, Walsh, and Roll Design are all about the Same. I would get a Laeger Setup if it was my Choice. Start out with a Laeger Frame, then the T-Pin Front End with PEP ZPS Shocks, a Laeger CR500 Link Swingarm, PEP ZPS Rear Shock, and then RPM Axle Stuff. That would be a Sweet Setup.

[Foxrage]

They are all good frames. YOu cant go wrong with any aftermarket ones except maybe the lonestar. It would really be personal preference or which ever takes the least time and is the least expensive.

[Dave400ex]

Well the least time is Lonestar. My Brother`s Case Cracked and the Guy that Built his Motor said he thinks it`s because his Frame is Warped. There is only Fix to that, a New Aftermarket Frame. Now this Info Sucks.

[Foxrage]

Thats a good excuse to get a new frame.

[mrusk]

Warriorman- Was yuor brother running a case saver? Where did it crack? I would like some more info about this.

matt

Sorry, my sig din't show up, it is not for a Warrior. It's for the 250r I have started building.

I found out (after starting this thread ) from East Coast's website that the RD frames cost $8900:eek:, that is about $2000 more than what I expected, I still might get RD but I am now putting more considering into other options.

My guess price was right almost...

Doug Roll needs to be locked up for rape I think. :grr

[mrusk]

Rico-

How can you say doug roll is a crook and should be locked up for rape? That is not a nice thing to saw about someone you dont even know. All of Doug's products are top notch. He may be too pricey for the weekend warriors like you but he sells EVERY SINGLE FRAME, AARM, SWINGARM, STERRING STEM, AND FOOTPEGS he can make!!! And he even has a waiting list 6 months long!

matt

Oh I know his products are top notch and I'd love to have a complete roll design chassis,,but how is his frames gonna cost more than a complete brand new 400ex, rapturd, banshee,,,heck even nice used cars don't even cost as much as he wants for a ATV frame. He's not helping the ATV racing industry by charging $8000 for a frame,,,,give me a break,,I guess the pipe used for his frames are worth $7000 and then $1000 for labor. I guess I might be out of line,,and I'm sorry for being this way,,but I wanna see the profit margin on his products. A 700% markup is not being to curtious to the consumer....but I guess if people are gonna spend small fortunes for some fancy bent pipe then he's not gonna lower the cost.

don't look at me in a bad way this is just my opinion on how most aftermarket companies are raping us,,not just roll design in general.. There's been many topics on this type of situation and most honest people will agree with what I've said..

[mrusk]

Rico for 8900 you are not getting only the frame. You get the Frame, Aarms, swingarm, sterring stem, subframe and front and rear axis (which are over 2k alone). It is a good deal when you consider the quality of parts that you are getting. If you could get it without the shocks for 6900 it would only be like 1600 more than a Walsh or Laeger chasis

There is no 700% percent markup. All of his parts are hand made by himself. People already complain about the wait, if he lowered the prices the wait would be twice as much.

matt

Well I guess I was out of line,,I just get so disgusted about the high cost of this sport we all love so much.

[monkeynuts]

I am going to throw a monkey wrench into the atv aftermarket chassis market, and am going to start making racing chassis' from balsa wood, chewing gum, and fairy dust. they will be available in a laquer finish or unfinished. their primary use will be baja

any takers

[Tommy 17]

Originally posted by Rico
Well I guess I was out of line,,I just get so disgusted about the high cost of this sport we all love so much.


amen rico:D i also don't understand why prices are so high for parts... i mean i know quad shocks, a-arms, swing arms, frame should not cost that much... by the time u put a front on ur quad ur around 1750$ that crazy to me... o well its a way for me not to be in drugs... i spend my money on quad parts and i been gettin beer free latly...

[Chef]

i just dont understand why his chromoly frame is so damn much more than an LRD attitude frame?

[Dave400ex]

Mrusk, It was on the Clutch Side. He does have a Case Saver but the Chain has never come off. Jason Orr said when he put the Motor back in the Head Stay would not Fit right so he pushed and pulled until the Head Stay went on. He thinks from all that Pushing and Pulling it put more Stress on the Motor and the Case Cracked. He is going to do some Welding on the Head Stay and he thinks it won`t put Stress on the Motor. Right now Jason is trying to Buy a 250r for the Frame so he can`t Modify it and we would Buy that off him for a Good Price or Nothing. If anything ever happens to another Stock Frame we will get a Arens or Laeger. We really want Laeger.

I agree with Rico. Doug Roll is charging way to much. This is my Opinion, but I still think Laeger is the Best out there and is a lot Cheaper then Walsh or Roll Design. If the Pro`s had to Pay for those Frames they would not be Running Roll or Walsh. I bet they would have a Laeger on their Quad. I know I would. All of the Frames are about the Same.

Just for some Price Comparision, a Full Sprint Car Rolling Chassis is around $2800. Now how nad then heck does Doug Roll have $6000 more Dollars in a Quad Setup?

[Chef]

Not trying to flame, but that full sprint car rolling chassis for $2800 isn't top of the line for sure. I've seen full quarter midget chassis for twice that...

[Foxrage]

Ya i dont really get roll and the prices he wants 1200 for a-arms and 1300 for shocks. You can get the heramann camplete chasis and everything for like 3000-4000 with shocks a-arms and swong arm and stem.

[mrusk]

WarriorMan do the math. A laeger chasis with a t pin front end is more money than a walsh. Yes it really is.

matt

[MOOCAZEN]

actually your wrong bro, right now, do you know who John Gregory is, he races for duncan/goldenwest cycle/roll, ims, well you get the idea, he does all the desert races, as of abt 2 mnths ago, with the roll stuff being so scarce the chassis with all the parts will run you almost 12000, its ridiculous, but this is straight from one of the maion sources, the reason we know, is because a buddy of mine is selling a complete roll bike, with a duncanc 250r racing engine, was used for 6 mnths for the baja, well he's selling the bike for 14000, and john gregory said that was a really good deal, because of the price of the chassis right now, ivan

[Adams44]

Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in.

Sprint car rolling chassis brand new complete with no motor is $5800 - 7300 depending on brand. I raced them for years. That is complete, but unpainted body. Throw a motor, fuel and power steering pump in and go.

Roll chassis kit (not rolling) $8900. You do the math. I agree Roll is an innovator and a great fabricator. BUT HIRE SOME DAMN PEOPLE and LOWER THE COST. I want one just like the next guy, but even at dealer cost that is ridiculous.
I can't believe it doesn't come with handle bars, since he is bending the buyers over them and.......
I don't care if it is hand made or not, so is any sprint car or stock car frame...there are goo welders out there for hire.
Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by Adams44

Roll chassis kit (not rolling) $8900. You do the math. I agree Roll is an innovator and a great fabricator. BUT HIRE SOME DAMN PEOPLE and LOWER THE COST. I want one just like the next guy, but even at dealer cost that is ridiculous.
I can't believe it doesn't come with handle bars, since he is bending the buyers over them and.......
I don't care if it is hand made or not, so is any sprint car or stock car frame...there are goo welders out there for hire.
Just my 2 cents.

Amen brotha,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Amen.:D

[Dave400ex]

Well ok I thought somebody told me they were $2800. Still, even $7300 Bucks is Cheaper then a Roll Setup. That is Nuts. Roll is not making better Stuff then those Sprint Car Chassis Builders. Adams44 hit the nail on the Head.

[Foxrage]

I bet roll design are great chassis but if you look at the ones the sprint car builders build they look so much lighter and just as strong. For a 400ex there has been guys racing stock gueseted framed without a crack but that is with optinun suspension.

[Dave400ex]

Yeah Roll and Walsh are just way over Priced.

[mrusk]

All you guys are starting to turn into a bunch of winney *****es! How many of you guys have acctually seen a Walsh or Lobo frame? They take hours and hours of work to complete 1. They are works of arts. You got to realize these guys need to make a living also. I doubt any of the chasis builders are getting really rich off of this. You have to consider the cost of the materials and how many they sell a year. These companys may sell every frame they make but due too the time nessary to make them they do not sell all that many per a year. Also alot of the chasis builders have workers and secertarys, money has to come from somewhere to pay them.

You guys may want to pay only 250 bucks for a pair of aarms, but then the builder you have to live in the homeless shelter. And guys dont worry about the cost of something you dont need.

matt

[Dave400ex]

Mrusk it doesn`t matter if we need the Parts or not. It is Nuts what they Charge. I have seen both Frames and they are a Work of Art, but they should not Cost more then a Sprint Car Chassis. I bet all those Sprint Car Chassis are better then Roll. I could go look at a Sprint Car tomorrow if I wanted to Compare. It is Nuts what they Charge. If everybody would Sell Frames for $1800 like Arens then it wouldn`t be as Bad.

[Foxrage]

Ya i know your right and they build them for the people they sponcer for free. But they probly sell alot of frames a year. I bet the sell enough or they couldnt sponcer anyone. Just the lobo has to pring in alot of mone probly around 500 profit.

[Dave400ex]

I bet Roll is making Good Money. I doubt he ever has Frames that are not Sold. He is backed up too. I bet Laeger is making good Money too. Oh well who really cares I guess. Guys will Buy the Stuff no matter what Roll or Walsh Charge.

[mrusk]

500 dollors profit is not alot of money at all. You need to realize that a Arens frame is just a STOCK REPLACEMENT frame. The lobo frame has many changes and looks significantly different than a stock frame. Same with the walsh frame. Both of these frames look way better than an arens frame, and no i am not bashing arens.

matt

[Dave400ex]

Arens would be Good Enough for anybody on this Site.

[mrusk]

But the Roll and Walsh frames and the narrow Laeger frame has better geometry which gives you the extra edge on your competitors.

matt

[Foxrage]

Ya you guys are right but for being a stock one it still last just as long as an roll or walsh. I think that there are probly 4 people just on this site with the lobo and just imagine how many more all over the world. He has to be making big bucks. 500 is alot though.

[Dave400ex]

Yeah I`m sure they do, but with the Narrow Laeger Frame you really should Run a T-Pin which most Guys can`t Afford. I know the Roll, Walsh, and Laeger are the Best Frames you can Buy, but I don`t really think any of us on here will ever need one of those. Now if my Brother gets a Complete Laeger Setup then I`m sure he would get a Narrow Front with the T-Pin. Does the Narrow Front Frame cost more?

[mrusk]

Narrow front end does not cost more. Besides the XC guys i do not think there is anyone that has a narrow laeger that doesnt run tpin. Most people run +4 tpin with +4+1 offset rims.

matt

[Dave400ex]

Well that`s Good. My Brother is looking at Laeger Frames right now. He might Save for One. I`m not to Sure. That is Good the Narrow does not Cost more. I think he really wants the Narrow Frame with the T-Pin but he doesn`t really need it. I guess I will Wait and Find out. I can`t Wait for Red Bud.

[dawzie]

We have a Lonestar frame and it is junk. Yea its better than stock but we had to force parts to fit. Called them up and got a major run around. Would never get another. We are now having East Coast ATV install a YZF426 into the frame. We race with Walsh when he runs in Dist34. We are going to have him make something for us with the YZF

[Dave400ex]

Yeah Lonestar is the only Company that does not have a Wait. I would never Buy a Lonestar.

[Adams44]

mrusk:

I agree we are being a little winny for something none of us will probably never buy.
I have no problem with someone making money and doing well for themselves. ****, get rich, just not in a way that gouges someone. There are ways to make frames of the same quality that costs less, that is called competition. Owning a business is expensive especially in So Cal. Owning a business also means managing in such a way that makes there product better and less expensive to thier customers.

[Dave400ex]

That is way I like Arens. Yes I know the Roll, Walsh, and Laeger Frames are different, but why can`t they Sell their Frames for $2000? Arens holds up just as Good as any of the other Frames made.

[Foxrage]

No arens holds up better than lonestar.

[trx400ex]

and to think i used to like reading what people had to say about suspension/chassis parts,, now all it amounts too is people talking about what they dont know, whats better than what.....whats the big deal..if you think the roll frame costs too much DONT BUY ONE............no one jump down my throat or anything, ok?

[mrusk]

I agree with you trx400. Have you guys ever heard of supply and demand? It is what runs the ecodomy. There is more demand than supply that is why the prices are what they are. I dont even understand why you guys are complaining about the Roll frame when he doesn't even make a frame for your 400's. Then you guys say you wish all frames could be priced like arens and you agree arens are very very good. Than just go buy the arens frame!!!
Atving may be getting bigger but the majority of people keep their machines stock and do not buy major chasis componets and these shops need to make a living. I think i feel this way because my dad owns his own business and i know what it takes to run one. Don't think the profit roll makes on aarms acctually goes right into pocket. There are alot of other things to the money goes to.

Guys lets not bash the chasis builders. They are one of the reasons why ATV Racing is booming. They are keeping the 250r alive!

matt

[Dave400ex]

Well I do Agree with you Guys. I hope we start a Quad Store up before to long and then I will know what it`s Like. I guess none of this Matters, if the Prices are to High, then Buy Arens or Laeger.

[Adam496]

whats arnes website

[Dave400ex]

Arens does not have a Website. You can go to www.kankatv.com or www.nacsracing.com to look at Arens.

[Foxrage]

I think you can order them directly too but i cant think of the number. aske quad041.

[Dave400ex]

Yes you can get them Direct from Arens. There is like a Six Month Wait for the Frames though.

[Foxrage]

Ya thats the only bad thing you will have that with every frame except maybe lonestar. I am thinking about selling my 400 and building a race 250r from the ground up. i will get an arens if i do.

[Dave400ex]

NACS you better go ahead and Order a Frame Now because it will be at least 6 Months. Building a Race 250r from the Ground Up will Cost between $15,000 and $20,000. I would just get a Narrow Front Laeger Frame with the T-Pin Front End, PEP ZPS Front Shocks, Laeger CR500 Link Swingarm, and a PEP ZPS Rear Shock. Then you still need a Axle Carrier, Axle, Locknut, Rear Hubs, Front Hubs, Handlebars, Plastic, Rims, Tires, plus then all the Motor Work. You better have a lot of Money if you are going to Build a 250r.

[RollAxis400ex]

u guys have to understand that most of the money these frame builders make goes right back in to the sport. Between sponcering riders and sponcering races they put out a lot of money. And also a lot goes into developing new products.

[Dave400ex]

Yeah Roll, Walsh, and Laeger all have a lot of Riders they Help out so that takes away some Money. I just don`t know why Roll can`t have Prices more like Laeger.

[Foxrage]

YA im not going all out im just buying a 250r then buying everything for it. What i have on my list now including the 250r is only 10500. Im going to try to do it but i will have toosee what my mom says.

[mrusk]

Building a 250r for mx takes alot of money. I know. I spend between 8-9k on parts and motorwork. Thats a fuggin lot of money!!! Nacs just ride your 400 and don't waste your college fund on building a mx250r. I got lucky with my R and found one for 3500 that was all stock with a mint condition frame with no cracks and welds and a motor in even better condition. But then i replaced every part i could. I only have a stock frame and swingarm. I am putting everything together i can today and will have pics tonite.

matt

[Foxrage]

Souds sweet Mrusk. Im not waisting my college funds i already have a bunch of money invested when my dad died so im covered im only worrid about a car and my mom said i can use heres but when i get a job she will co shign a loan for me to buy a decent car.

[Dave400ex]

NACS it`s your Choice. Building a 250r costs a lot of Money. My Brother`s is worth a High Amount already and he still needs New Front and Rear Shocks, Swingarm, Axle Carrier, many other little Parts, and maybe a Frame since his has been Cracked, Bent, and Welded many Times. If you do Build a 250r, I would Find a nice Stock Frame and have it Gusseted and Powdercoated instead of a Arens or Laeger.

[Foxrage]

If im going to get one for big jumps might as well not have to worry about anything and go ahead and get it.

[Dave400ex]

Not have to Worry about what?

[Foxrage]

Anything breaking. I just got done talkin to my mom and she said she didnt want to do it because she knew i would go crazy not being able to ride till i got it together. I think she is right ill just mod the **** out of mine then the last thing ill get get is LRD frame.

[Dave400ex]

NACS you should just go all Laeger and PEP so it`s like the Nac`s 400ex. Then you could have a Special 400ex Laeger Frame made.

[Foxrage]

If i get those a-arms off of that guy i will go with laeger setup W/ curtis sparks motor. Laeger stem and swing arm RPM axle and some PEP Zps. When do you order them again??

[Dave400ex]

Order what? I would just go ahead and Order the Shocks if you know you are going to have the Money for them.

[Foxrage]

Order the shocks. I will order them as soon as i get the job for sure.

[Dave400ex]

I think that`s what my Brother is going to do.

Holy ****! I leave for the weekend and when I come back my thread is 5 pages long. I'll have to use this forum more often, I posted identical threads at 4 other forums and din't get more than a page at any of them.

I still don't know which frame I will get, Roll Design looks nice but I don't think I am willing to pay that much for a frame.

When I finally order a frame, I'll let you know what I decided.

Thanks for all the help.
Chris

[dawzie]

On some site I saw a new 250R frame for sale, like $2200. That is a good deal. It my have been on Newenglandatv.com or this site. I forget. Saw it a week or two ago. Hope that helps

[Dave400ex]

On ATVSource.com a Guy is Selling a Complete Laeger Setup. It has the Laeger Frame, T-Pin Front End, CR500 Link Swingarm, PEP ZPS Front Shocks, and a Rear PEP ZPS Shock. Some of the Stuff was Used and some was New. I think he Wanted $7900 and there is no Wait.

[Foxrage]

Hey drawzie do you have a pic og your quad? I would love to have a laeger setup if i had the money. But let us know what frame you go with..

[dawzie]

I dont have a pic of our quad. It is really dinged up now anyway from racing. We are having a Yamaha YZF426 motor put in it now. This thing is going to be awsome with that motor in it. If we hit the lotto this summer we are going to have walsh build us a complete setup for that motor. Frame, sub frame, steering stem, a-arms, swing arm about $8500 ZPS shocks $1800 axel, bearings, hubs, brakes, spindles, plastics $3500

We are still thinking about buying one of those '01 cannondales that they(the factory) up graded to be the same as a cannibal for about $1500 less. Then get all the trick stuff that Walsh has for it. We might be doing that in the next couple of weeks.

[Foxrage]

Damn sounds nice. I think If anyone got a walsh frame would be more than thrilled. Now hitting the lottow is a little crazy. Sounds nice Why dont you put a Crf in it?

[dawzie]

The YZF is a proven motor. We also wanted to to keep it under 440 CC The CRF has yet to be proven. The only way to get it is in a bike which costs about $2000 more than the YZF426 bike. Then you have to get it destroked to make a 440. Plus that piston scars me. Honda will be putting it in a Quad soon enough.

[James70214]

Dawzie
Yous till getting the cannondale? Thats cool your puttin tha 426 in. Has Carl or you ever gone racing at Evasville? i am thinking about going this Saturday with Tommy(Hellbound Racing).
LEt me know
James

[Foxrage]

I was wondering if you were talkin about me cause my name is carl. I have never been to that track or place if your talkin about me.

[mrusk]

Nacs400 James aint talking about you.

I find it funny how all these kids think the CRF motor is the 'hot setup'. I doubt we will see a large # of CRF quads like we see YZF quads. And from what i hear the yzf is a better motor.

matt

[Foxrage]

O ok i knew the yz was better and more proven but if i was going to build one i would still like to have the Crf. Just my 2 cents.

[dawzie]

Well this is what little info we have; Tom Miller,our engine builder said the only thing that can be done to the YZF is porting. The engine is so good from the factory that its not worth doing anything else.

The CRF is a good motor BUT, it is a converted two cycle engine. The piston skirt is very small. Honda recommends that the motor be rebuilt every 12 hours. Walsh has been working on this motor. They tried sleeving it down to a 440. Didnt work that well. So they went with destroking it, They are also working at designing a different cam for it. Talk about R+D. They are spending money big time.

Another point. The YZF is hard starting. Talked to a couple of quad guys that run it, they said once you learn the trick you can usually get it started on the first kick. The guys that make the fuel injection for the Cannondale also offer it for ALOT of other motors. $3500 !!!! But then it starts, it's programable AND dependable!!.

Carl wanted to run Evansville this weekend, but we decided that the new motor was a better idea. It is a awsome track. Best of luck to little Tommy. He is riding really good this year.

[Nausty]

yah but on all the dirt bike manuals they always do the worst case scenario. I'm sure its more like a 2 stroke like twice a year or so for the person who goes out once or twice a week to a track. Most bicycle and dirt bike manuals want you to check every single nut and bolt and working part of the motor everytime you ride. Any who wants to ride a bicycle do you always take it strait to your garage and tighted up every bolt and check the tire pressure, tighted the spokes, ect everytime you ride? To me and my dad it just seems like they are trying to keep from being sued or blame a part breaking under warrenty on not doing proper service and because you will probably end up buying the parts FROM honda when you go to replace a lot of the parts.

[dawzie]

We race MX - if you want to win you have to check every little nut and bolt after every race. This is what we do for fun. When it becomes a chore then we will move on to something else!

[James70214]

Yeah tommy is riding good. I am just waiting on 2 new o rings for my cool head. If I get them I'll go. What are you gonna do with the 440 motor? Whose making the engine mounts for you guys?
See ya
James

[dawzie]

We are going to sell the 440 with the exhust, lectron carb and CDI box for $2500

East coast is doing the retro fit. They said we can drive it home when they are done.

I also called Columbia Motor Sports today. I was talking to Kyle about the updated FX400 Cannondale quads. He said heck, why dont you buy my Walsh prep'ed Cannibal. We just rebuilt the motor, I'll give it to ya for $6800. Wellll, I thought about it for about ----------- 4 SECONDS and said YES!!!!:D :D

[James70214]

Thats awesome
so your gonna have the 426 and the walsh cannondale? Me and tommy are gonna go to Evansville this saturday. Heard it is an awesome track. When is your guys next race? Probably May 12 at walden Right?

[Dave400ex]

Do you have any Pictures of your Quads? They both sound Nice.

[dawzie]

Our next race is at Walden, we will be at open practice the Wednesday before. I wont have any pictures untill then.

[Dave400ex]

Thanks Dawzie.