Molycoating

[Pappy]

Well, i finally had a few hours today to try out this new process. its not that difficult and so far ive done about 30 different pieces.

This is a thermal coating that imbeds Molybdenum Disulfide into the metal providing a couple decent things we maybe able to benefit from.

Its self lubricating, will not wear off the metal even if the "color" does. it hardens the surface of the metal and provides wear protection and his heat disapating. pressure bonded to 300,000 psi.

You may be aware of this coating if youve seen it applied to pistons and other internal engine parts. I figured since it has such good attributes id apply it to some other areas that needs protection on our atv's.

I coated my swing arm pivot bolt and bearing sleeves, brake pistons and sliders and the small collars on the front hub. I will do my spindle races next and see what else i can find a use for.

[Pappy]

pivot bolt and sleeves.

[Pappy]

sprockets

[Screamin440]

How bad is the pricing on this Ken or have you made it that far yet?

[Pappy]

i havent really thought too much about it. its kinda pricy at $32 a pint but i geuss if it works as it states it could save money and down time on certain parts. (i for one hope this is a decent solution to the swing arm pivot bolt BS)


i geuss for most small parts it would be around $7 to $12 a part.

this can can be done by anyone that has a beadblast cabinet, a spray booth and can afford the chemicals. this stuff has some chit in it thats bad news so a good respirator and ventliated spray room is required.

i will be doing some pistons for an engine soon so ill see how that goes. its kinda cool, you can coat the threads and not affect anything because its applied at .004 of an inch thickness. i reassembled my calipers and it was like there wasnt any coating applied. very cool IMO.

the pivot bolt and sleeves went back together perfectly so all should be good there. my pivot bolt wasnt 4 months old and had pits and scale rust. the hard chrome process used on alot of these types of parts just doesnt lend itself to the type of abuse applied in the atv arena.

[Pappy]

this was its main purpose when it was developed. firearms.

i did my barrel, bushing and spring cup and now i will work on doing the inside of the slide.

[400ex28]

Lookin' good Pappy!:cool:

[JDiablo]

nice looking weapon you have there pappy,i have the stuff you asked me too all packed up and ready to ship to you tomorrow

[fastkid400]

nice 1911, that coating looks awesome, so u dont have to bake this stuff on, just spray it on and let it dry? thats pretty wild that u can use this stuff on the inside of motors. kool:)

[Pappy]

this does require a bake at 325 degrees for an hour.

[fastkid400]

so u could just use a baking oven?

[Pappy]

yes. most gunsmiths use a small oven from a kitchen. the most important thing is ventalation in your work area. i cant stress that enough.

[cletusEX]

Is this similar to the moly coatings they put on bullets?

[crap-banshee32]

thats sweet!!! always coming up with new things!!!:)

[Pappy]

Originally posted by cletusEX
Is this similar to the moly coatings they put on bullets?

its exactly the same except i believe they tumble the bullets in dry moly and there is no cure involved. ofcourse the bullet has a one time use so long term isnt an issue.


from what i understand this coating once finished is permanent. the dull grey color may wear away but the protective attributes remain fully intact. i know with regards to firearms i have doubled my barrell life in my match guns that are used with moly coated bullets. i was replacing barrles on my .223 and 22-250 every 5000 rounds. since switching to moly coated bullets i have well over 11,000 rounds thru my 22-250 and it still groups well below M.O.A.

i cant comment on how well it does on engine componets from personal expierence but Colby @ C&D said that the company coating his pistons have expierenced incredibly gains in component life and wear using this process.

[cletusEX]

Originally posted by Pappy
[B]its exactly the same except i believe they tumble the bullets in dry moly and there is no cure involved. ofcourse the bullet has a one time use so long term isnt an issue.


from what i understand this coating once finished is permanent. the dull grey color may wear away but the protective attributes remain fully intact. i know with regards to firearms i have doubled my barrell life in my match guns that are used with moly coated bullets. i was replacing barrles on my .223 and 22-250 every 5000 rounds. since switching to moly coated bullets i have well over 11,000 rounds thru my 22-250 and it still groups well below M.O.A. B]

Sounds like you do a little bit of shooting.:p Have you noticed any difference in accuracy with the moly bullets? I don't do nearly as much shooting as I would like (mostly just sighting in and the 3 or 4 deer I kill a year) but have an AR-15 that I break out every once in a while. It shoots the 69 grain matchkings real well, but groups can never be small enough.

[Pappy]

we noticed on some barrels the non coated bullets would group better before say 3000 rounds. after which accuracy would fall off slightly with groups staying around 1/4 inch at 200 yards. with a switch to moly bullets accuracy would usually tighten up a tad and we could get 5 rounds in a ragged little hole again. we concluded that the moly was allowing a better bite in the rifling.

barrels that were broken in with moly bullets seemed to hold accuracy much better but took longer to break in and group tight. no explanation requored because we knew why.

the AR-15 with the new twist does seem to gobble up the 69 grain bullets it was intended to handle. we have found a few things can help the AR.

1) a buffer plate will keep the upper and lower recievers tight and improve accuracy.

2) checking the headspacing is a great idea. we have seen some big differnces in this area from rifle to rifle.

3) if accuracy is your only game you can follow the rules usually required to wring out every bit of accuracy a given rifle can produce. free floating handgaurds, match ammo and increased shooter training.

4) the trigger on a civilian or military AR is crap. a good gunsmith can install a decent trigger and for accuracy its so important.


i fire my handloads only in my firearms and each has been tuned for that specific rifle. ofcourse i know how to shoot and everything added up = accuracy anyone should be proud of. bench time means a ton.

[400ex28]

You know a lil about gun's eh Pappy?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by 400ex28
You know a lil about gun's eh Pappy?

no..... guns are on a ship:scary:

[cletusEX]

Yeah I've noticed a little wiggle between the upper and lower receiver. I haven't had much time to try and figure it out. Our AR-15 was made by Rock River Arms. It's the varmint edition with a 24 inch bull barrel and a two stage match trigger. The trigger makes all the difference in the world. We have replaced all our hunting rifle triggers, which significantly shrunk the groups. I have always shot factory ammo and never had trouble finding a load that would shoot inch groups at 100 yard in my hunting rifles. I'm slowing getting into handloading more as a hobby than a necessity.

[Pappy]

if i can help you with any of the reloading just ask. it is a great hobby!

i dont reload as much as i used too, but for a period of about 10 years all i did was hunt and shoot. when we ran out of yardage we kinda ran out of interest for accuracy but everything i own will shoot the peter off a skeeter and then some:p

we will have to hook up and go bust some caps sometime.

[JOEX]

Another quad component that might benefit this application is the rear break lever shaft. I as well as others have had it sieze or become very tight.

Thanks for keeping us updated on these 'new' procedures;) :)

[Pappy]

yup...i did the small "pivot" on my 450r also. any component that requires constant lubricity will get done. im in no hurry to tear down the quad but ill sleep better knowing it will come back apart as easy as it went together:p

[stocktires]

Looks promising paps, keep us updated!

[JDiablo]

pappy with this coating on pistons will we be able to run a higher compression piston and use a lower octane gas?

[stocktires]

Originally posted by 300exrida
pappy with this coating on pistons will we be able to run a higher compression piston and use a lower octane gas?

I would think it shouldn't affect performance what so ever. Maybe it'll lower heat a little paps?

[JDiablo]

i think that is what it is suppose and lubricate it to

[Pappy]

here is the low down on pistons...

you can use this on 100% of the piston, but most builders use moly on the sides, and a ceramic coating on the top. the ceramic coating serves to spread heat evenly over the piston top, while the moly helps wear against the cylinder wall.

engine builders differ on what is the best way to do all of this. a few(select few who i trust without question) say its best to build the engine, break it in and then disassemble. at that point the piston should be coated.

other builders have coated pistons ready and install them and thats that.

i can see both sides of that issue.

as far as higher or lower octane i dont believe it will harm nor help, however high compression engines, nitrous pistons and turbo/blower engines will benefit from less detonation if the top of the piston is coated with ceramic type coatings.

[440ex kid]

I would like to know, if you dont mind, where you purchase this coating at or where I could find it? Any help would be appreciated.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by 440ex kid
I would like to know, if you dont mind, where you purchase this coating at or where I could find it? Any help would be appreciated.

You just dug up a post from 2004!:eek:

[440ex kid]

You just dug up a post from 2004!



And?