Engine Nocking during break -in

[440ex2001]

We got the 440 kit installed made. I had 2 mechanic buddies com e over and we took our time and got everything bolted up correctly. The one thing I was unsure about was how we did the timing. We got the T- lined up on the crank but the lines on the timing chain gear on the cam were not exactly parallel with the head. It was slightly off. If we moved a tooth either way it threw it way off. Anyway, It fired right up and we let it idle for a while and cut it off. No ticking or anything. Then as I was cruising around the yard about 5 mins into it started ticking really loud. I have no idea what it could be. Now I wont be able to sleep till I figure it out. You guys have any suggestions or anything that I should double check? Thanks

[atvracr350]

Did you install an after market cam with your 440 kit? If so all aftermarket cams are going to tick louder than the stock one. I don't think it should be loud enough for one of your friends to hear over the engine when you are riding around them. I just got done breaking in my 406 with a stage 2 hotcam and it ticks alot worse than stock but i expected that and now i kind of like the ticking.lol. Hope this helps.

[440ex2001]

its not the cam ticking i have been runninf a stage 1 for a while this sound is louder.Almost like a knocking sound. I wonder if the timng chain tension could be to tight or soemthing. I'm clueless.

[F-16Guy]

Double check the cam chain tensioner. When you install it, you have to remove the Phillips head screw, and then turn the small screw inside it while putting pressure on the tensioner (it makes it easier to compress if you help it along by putting pressure on it). Once you get it retracted, it should stay that way until you turn the screw. Like Cals said in the other thread, make sure it snaps back when you turn the screw after it's installed. It is an automatic tensioner, so you want the spring to release and put the pressure on the cam chain. If it didn't release, your cam chain could be slapping around. Also, check your valve clearance with the engine cold if the tensioner doesn't help. The last thing I can think of is fuel. What compression ratio are you running? Engines run extra hot during break-in, and heat is a major factor in spark knock. You may want to run some race fuel duing break-in. If you don't have access to race gas, you can run 50/50 super and 100LL AvGas. You gan get it at your local municipal airport for about $2.50/gal. Good luck. It sucks when you run into bugs like this.

[440ex2001]

Thanks for the help guys. The compression ratio is 11:1 and Im running 93 octane. We tore the engine all the way down an checked everything out. Every thing looked good. Nothing was damaged missing or loose. I buddy seems to think that the cylinder was bored wrong. I dont know why but he does. The knock doesnt sound like a detonation. Other than the knocking the engine runs good it just wont hold idle. I'm guessing its not jetted right becasue of the ported/polished head 440 combo may be leaning it out. Well Im going to the Julie Andrews concert with my girl so I guess I'll just relax for awhile and jump back on it theis evening. Thanks for the tips guys and feel free to keep them coming I'm gonna need them :)

[440ex2001]

I meant julie roberts hah not mary poppins (julie andrews man i need some sleep)

[MichaelS693]

check something simple like loose motor mounts or something? check all studs... usually during break in the mounts and studs get loose.. i was racing the other night and heard a loud ticking i immediatly shut my motor off looked at my motor and wiggled it and come to find out it was just a loose motor mount.. i was so relieved:D

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by 440ex2001
Thanks for the help guys. The compression ratio is 11:1 and Im running 93 octane. We tore the engine all the way down an checked everything out. Every thing looked good. Nothing was damaged missing or loose. I buddy seems to think that the cylinder was bored wrong. I dont know why but he does. The knock doesnt sound like a detonation. Other than the knocking the engine runs good it just wont hold idle. I'm guessing its not jetted right becasue of the ported/polished head 440 combo may be leaning it out. Well Im going to the Julie Andrews concert with my girl so I guess I'll just relax for awhile and jump back on it theis evening. Thanks for the tips guys and feel free to keep them coming I'm gonna need them :)
The bore could do it, I guess. You might have a little piston slap. Get your jetting straight before you run it again. You should have at least a 162 main for break-in (or to be on the safe side, a 165), and a 40 or 42 pilot jet. If it's still apart, you may want to run down to a local machine shop and have them mic the bore and piston. Subtract the piston from the bore and compare it to the clearance given on the piston box. A couple thousandths either way probably won't hurt anything. Did you check the ring end gap? If not, you need to remove the piston from the rod and take the rings off. Set the oil (bottom) rings aside. One at a time, place one of the top two rings in the cylinder a few inches down and square it up by pushing the piston up from the bottom. Using a feeler gauge, determine the size of the ring gap. There should be about .004" gap per inch of cyinder bore, you can check the approximate bore size with a ruler. It should be just over 3", so you'll probably need a ring gap of just over .012". You can buy a ring filer from Checker or Auto Zone, or you can just carefully file from one end, ensuring that you remove any burs prior to reinstalling the ring. Repeat for each ring until the proper gap is attained. It's a PITA, but little stuff like this will make or break an engine. If the piston's a flat-top Wiseco, you'll probably want to run the thinnest head and base gaskets you can buy. Call C&D and see if they can get you a set; make sure the head gasket is the Flexsteel kind, not the fiber one. Why? It has to do with combustion chamber volume and deck height for that particular piston. Getting thinner gaskets will bring the compression ratio closer to the advertised 11:1, and thin the squish band (the distance from the outer edge of your piston to the outer edge of the head, including gasket thickness). Getting that space to as close to .040" as possible on this motor will make the fuel/air charge burn more efficiently by forcing it toward the center of the combustion chamber just as the piston reaches TDC, and also swirling it around in the process.

[cals400ex]

the stage 1 hotcam is the loudest cam that i have heard. it ticks and sounds like its knocking. i would run 20w50 oil and see if that helps. you should be running that with a 440 anyways.

[440ex2001]

its not the cam. i have been running the stage1 for awhile and i am familiar with that tick. this was much louder.

[440ex2001]

After tearing the engine down and finding nothing wrong and reading posts on the forum I have come to the conclustion that the engine must have over heated and started knocking. I had synthetic 10W30 in it while I was breaking it in. I think I'm just gonna go put it back together and put the right type of oil in it and go from there.

[cals400ex]

synthetic wasn't the best to be used on break in. those rings need to seat properly.

[Aceman]

Quit using synthetic, it lubricates so well your rings won't wear in properly. Your cylinder could be glazed now and might need to be rehoned. Only conventional oil should be used on break in. Also 93 octane is cutting it pretty close on an 11-1 piston. Like F16 guy said, while your engine is breaking in it will run a little hotter. I would definitely be running a higher octane fuel than 93, which is marginal.

[EPDP99]

I have a 465 stroker in mine and it might be the same thing. Trinity said its normal because of stroke, came and bigger jug. Mines a 440 stroked to 465 running av gas. stage 2 cam trinity pipe full port and polish with combustion chamber mod and 3 angle valve job. Corrillo rod. The works. Trinity uses stock pilot jet and different main and needle setting as well as air fuel screw. If my 465 uses stock pilot jet and thats how trinity dyno's them at 58 ponies it safe to say the stock one is fine.

[440ex2001]

I didnt break it in with synthetic it only ran for about 10 mins before it started knocking.

[EPDP99]

Did ou install a new cam? If so you need to follow the cam break in instructions. The ones that say 2-3k rpm for 20 mins and have a big fan in front so it doesnt get too hot. Change the oil, check the valves and then go ridethrough all gears up to only half throttle for 2 tanks of gas not keeping it at the same rpm for too long. Change the oil then you're of to the races!!!! Mine has a knock also but trinity said its normal. Mine has done it from breakin and still does it. But it is getting quieter the more I ride.

[440ex2001]

I just got it back together today checked everything 3x over and swapped the oil out for 20w50. It starts fine wont idle and after it get to 175-180 it starts knocking. If I let it cool off for a while it stops knocking but as soon as it gets around the 180 mark it starts knocking. I about to just take the jug off put the old one on and forget about. Any other suggestions?

[drummer-on-a-EX]

EPDP99,
How long have you had your stroker? I just got mine back a couple of weeks ago and haven't had a chance to romp on it.
What part of AZ you in? Ya ride the dunes?
Drummer

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by 440ex2001
I just got it back together today checked everything 3x over and swapped the oil out for 20w50. It starts fine wont idle and after it get to 175-180 it starts knocking. If I let it cool off for a while it stops knocking but as soon as it gets around the 180 mark it starts knocking. I about to just take the jug off put the old one on and forget about. Any other suggestions?


this is exaxtly what my TC cam does and my buddies stage 1 does this too. if we swap in a stage 2, it won't do it. i still think it is the cam but i could be wrong. try to put the stock cam in and see if it does it.

[440ex2001]

its not the cam. The cam has a very distictive tick. I can still hear that tick while its knocking.

[xc400ex]

Even though it doesnt sound like it its detonation. Im positive since you said it doesnt knock till it gets to 180*. If it was the cylinder causing the problem the knock would get quiter as the motor got hotter, because of the forged piston swelling when hot, and it would really be making a noise when first started up.

[440ex2001]

I went out to run it today again to see if i could figure anything out about the knocking. The one other thing that I can think of that might help you guys help me figure this out is that as the engine gets hotter the noise gets louder and louder. It start very faint and then gets so loud you have to shut it off. Also if i turn off the ignition switch and turn the engine over it still knocks so i dont think its detonation but thanks for the input.

[EPDP99]

Ive had my stroker for probably 5 months. Im in tucson and oh ya I ride the dune. Buttercup. about the knocking, im leaning towards detonation. my reason being that if it wont idle the jetting is obviosly off. due to lean-rich or octane level can cause the knock. Aas the motor heats up it tries to ignite the fuel before it should. thus causing a knock. the only thing is where is the knock? is it more on top near the cam or lower in the jug. that can also determine detonation or not.

[440ex2001]

cant really determne where its coming from seems like it near the top. It couldnt be detonation if it still knocks when i cut the ignition and just turn the engine over using the starter could it?

[EPDP99]

who built the motor for you? If you did it yourself how tight did the piston and rings fit?