What the heck keeps happening????

[QuadJunkies]

Poor Brandon is gonna lose his series ,because of mechanical breakdown. AGAIN........:rolleyes: :grr: This is the second time we have lost the top end...... The first time it was the 50's( went with a 70 kit the second time ) the first time something went threw the motor and tore up the piston ,jug and head.... Flushed out the bottom end of the motor with oil and gas and found some shavings and most of the pieces looked like pieces of the ring...Everything has been running smooth and hasnt had a bit of trouble since ... Until yesterday,he was just out riding, doing a little bit of jumping ect. and all of a sudden it froze....:(
We need some good info and we need it FAST. My boy is gonna miss the WORCS round on the 18th if its not completed in time...This was going to be his 1st National..... If anyone can help ,it would be grealy appreciated......


Here is a few of the pics we took of the head, piston and jug. I cant imagie what could be in the motor or what cold be causeing a repeat , one person mentioned over revving in a jump could cause this effect?????:confused: Also, 36:1(Castor927) was the oil and the spark plug was dark brown on the rich side

[QuadJunkies]

T sure sucks when your at the end of a great racing season!!:mad:

[QuadJunkies]

...:huh

[QuadJunkies]

there was no signs of any mechanical failure about to occur. It ran AWESOME!!!:macho

[QuadJunkies]

:(

[QuadJunkies]

....

[AtvMxRider]

Was the bike warmed up good before it happened?

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by AtvMxRider
Was the bike warmed up good before it happened? yes, he had been riding it off and on for a few hours

[Braff1]

I would say find a injector block off plate and start mixin your own.
Sorry to hear about his bad luck.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by Braff1
I would say find a injector block off plate and start mixin your own.
Sorry to hear about his bad luck. we do our mix. the oil injector is plugged...

[mxmike17]

Originally posted by QuadJunkies
there was no signs of any mechanical failure about to occur. It ran AWESOME!!!:macho

Kinda looks like half the wrist pin circle clip is missing?

What was you compreshion and fuel octain?

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by mxmike17
Kinda looks like half the wrist pin circle clip is missing?

What was you compression and fuel octain? Comp. was 140 Octane was 91. No Race mix was needed cause its not a Big Bore... Just a Manufactor Eton 70 kit straight out of a Eton Viper 70....
It seems Odd why this would happen twice. It was completly stock when it we had to replace the top end...:confused:
You think the motor needs split to see what might be floatin around in there???
Wait........... Mike.. I think you are right........ Troy found one wrist pin, and pieces of another..........:( I think we may have solved some of the problem, the rest of it is probably down in the motor...Not sure if this is what happened on the first go around, but for whatever reason looks like thats what it was this time...

[QuadJunkies]

I fogot to include that before the rings has set, the Comp. was at 115 then went to a 140. :)

[mxmike17]

Call a few builders and check there recomendations on octain.

I was told to run atleast 105 with mine and its only at 124psi.

Why the clip broke would be yalls main consern right now looks like. Could have been faulty,over stressed on instalation, maybe not all the way seeted, etc.....

Good luck.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by mxmike17
Call a few builders and check there recomendations on octain.

I was told to run atleast 105 with mine and its only at 124psi.

Why the clip broke would be yalls main consern right now looks like. Could have been faulty,over stressed on instalation, maybe not all the way seeted, etc.....

Good luck. Eton actually told us that High Octane will not run as well,also talked with two other Racing Companies that confirmed that.... like mentioned above. Its basically like running a 70 Eton with a clutch ,roller wieghts and a pipe.. No High Octane should be needed .;) My Daughter runs around a 105 Octane but has a highly modded 90......Thanks for having a good eye!!!!;) Back to square one .:( Sigh......... I cant beleive this happened TWICE in the same exact spot!!!.........:mad:

[J Anderson R720]

Tina,

First off, that is NOT an Eton 47mm 70cc cylinder, head or piston. That is the Airsal cylinder, head and piston.

The cause of your problem was the wrist pin clip falling out of the clip groove. This is usually caused by a faulty installation. IN this case, the remaining clip has the open end gap at the 9:00 position. That open gap should be at either 12 or 6 oclock. In addition, the tang should be cut down to reduce the weight of the tang and the chance that the tang mass could cause the clip to collapse, especially when installed with the gap at 9.

Also, that is the 10mm pin. Those tiny clips require extra attention to care while installing the clip. There is little extra room and if you over stress the clip, it will fail.

Take your pick, those parts are junk.

Also, judging from the tiny pock marks on the head, I would suspect you are loosing the big end rod bearing thrust washer.

If you can't get it running locally, you know how to get in contact with me.

j

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by J Anderson R720
Tina,

First off, that is NOT an Eton 47mm 70cc cylinder, head or piston. That is the Airsal cylinder, head and piston.


j How can it NOT be from Eton??? We called and talked to them specifically???:confused: We ordered the parts from an Eton dealer who ordered it from them....Im not familiar with the Airsal I guess.... Troy will know more on this than I will... Whens a good time to give you a buzz??? PM me and let me know ;)

[LT80]

So many don't understand that there is a proper place for the clip opening.
Also most just squeeze the cir-clip to install and like Jon said, over stress it. Thus they pop out.
Bummer.:(

[ID-YFZracer-BE]

me and my dad will be over tomorrow at around 6 to look at it

[seven]

Tell Troy to ride his own quad and that wouldnt happen!

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by seven
Tell Troy to ride his own quad and that wouldnt happen! LOL....:o :p I know. he just cant help himself sometimes!!!:blah: sure bummed to see lil man w/o a ride :(

[QuadJunkies]

well, looks like Lil Man is going to make his race afterall!!!!:blah: got a replacement on its way!!! :D

[Braff1]

Originally posted by QuadJunkies
well, looks like Lil Man is going to make his race afterall!!!!:blah: got a replacement on its way!!! :D

Wish I could say that. The predator has been in the shop now for 5 wks. After 2 major temper tantrums you think they would hurry up and get it done.

Glad to hear lil man will be cruising on his ride.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by Braff1
Wish I could say that. The predator has been in the shop now for 5 wks. After 2 major temper tantrums you think they would hurry up and get it done.

Glad to hear lil man will be cruising on his ride. Im sorry to hear that.:( Yeah, We talked to a few racing Companies that are VERY happy with the Airsal kit ,so with that said we got another..... Lets just say We got some VERY good custom Service and that hopefully this kit will last alot longer .;)

[Flynbryan19]

Hope this one works better for ya Tina.:macho

[Samson]

Originally posted by J Anderson R720
Tina,

First off, that is NOT an Eton 47mm 70cc cylinder, head or piston. That is the Airsal cylinder, head and piston.

The cause of your problem was the wrist pin clip falling out of the clip groove. This is usually caused by a faulty installation. IN this case, the remaining clip has the open end gap at the 9:00 position. That open gap should be at either 12 or 6 oclock. In addition, the tang should be cut down to reduce the weight of the tang and the chance that the tang mass could cause the clip to collapse, especially when installed with the gap at 9.

Also, that is the 10mm pin. Those tiny clips require extra attention to care while installing the clip. There is little extra room and if you over stress the clip, it will fail.

Take your pick, those parts are junk.

Also, judging from the tiny pock marks on the head, I would suspect you are loosing the big end rod bearing thrust washer.

If you can't get it running locally, you know how to get in contact with me.

j


Airsal is junk or anything Jon doesn't sell is junk? Wouldn't drink the kool-aid Tina, Jon's been pissing in it again.

[mxmike17]

We got well over 20 races and numerous practice sessions on our airsal 70 kit. No junk here :D

[400exdad]

Sorry to hear about your troubles, but I've got some good news... I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance! :D Sorry, I've been waiting to say that! :D Even though it was a bit late in the thread. :) Seriously, I never knew it was so important for the clip openings to be here or there. I bet if our little LT had tangs, we would be in the same boat already. Better luck next time.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by mxmike17
We got well over 20 races and numerous practice sessions on our airsal 70 kit. No junk here :D Hey, did you ever go to a dif. Carb??? We have a Modified carb out of a Predator 90 we were thining of giving a try ...:cool:

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by 400exdad
Sorry to hear about your troubles, but I've got some good news... I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance! :D Sorry, I've been waiting to say that! :D Even though it was a bit late in the thread. :) Seriously, I never knew it was so important for the clip openings to be here or there. I bet if our little LT had tangs, we would be in the same boat already. Better luck next time. LMAO!! Troy and I got a kick out of that!!!:p The clip wasnt "originally" where it is NOW.... It may not have been at a true 6 or 12, but it was closed:( OH well, We learn something new everyday!!! I just pray that kit shows by the first of the week!! But I doubt it will. :(

[little50]

That stinks about the clips, I would have never known to watch for that and I just put a cylinder kit in myself, now I will have to break it down and see were I spaced the darn things.

Well, good luck with new kit.

[mxmike17]

A 20mm Keihn with K&N filter, reed cage , reeds, and intake was put on at the same time the airsal kit was installed. Never tried the stock carb with the kit.

Billy and Mark put it toghether one evening will I ate all there B.B.Q and drank all there beer........I think I missed the part were they put the clip in:D :D :devil:

[ACME ROCKET CO.]

I took a crank seal out too! Installed it before the bearing to increase the primary compression. Lubed the bearing with the oil injector pump line and routed the over-flow to lube the chain!

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by mxmike17
A 20mm Keihn with K&N filter, reed cage , reeds, and intake was put on at the same time the airsal kit was installed. Never tried the stock carb with the kit.

Billy and Mark put it toghether one evening will I ate all there B.B.Q and drank all there beer........I think I missed the part were they put the clip in:D :D :devil: LOL.... :p

[markvette]

that 70 kit we put in mikes eton flat flys and little mike rides pinned 90% of the time. he has had no problem with it and still has good compression. mike that was a long night, billy and i put 2 kits in that day, your eton and masons predator. the bbq was good but i didnt get no beer, had to drive 85 miles home that night after we got done.

Mark

[Samson]

I've all the beer you can drink Mark!



...just bring a kit and tools! :devil:




j/p!

[ACME ROCKET CO.]

SAMSON ,
Don't warn Mark about the Texas BEER.

[mxmike17]

I think me and jr's quad is about ready for another BBQ:devil:

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by mxmike17
I think me and jr's quad is about ready for another BBQ:devil: Can we come to the BBQ???:D :p

[Samson]

Originally posted by ACME ROCKET CO.
SAMSON ,
Don't warn Mark about the Texas BEER.

What's to warn? Except you better drink fast or it'll all be gone?
:o

[QuadJunkies]

WEll, the new kit came today, too bad it fell short of Nationals by a few days:rolleyes: .. At least he can race his last FT race of the series this wk end now!!:blah:

[QuadJunkies]

well, we already found out more on something else that prol. went wrong with the install.... This kit they sent us a cooler plug. :grr: Went from a 7 to a 9 on the heat range.!!!:mad: Going to also just go ahead and change the rod bearing to be safe.... :)

[mxmike17]

Yep mine came with a 9 too. I was advised to run atleast 105 octain too. I been running straight vp112 and Maxama Super M synthetic between 40 to 45 to 1.

[QuadJunkies]

Eton told us to run a 7 on the plug.... This kit came with directions,the other one didint, so Trroy called Eton direct, Guess they need to be advised of this !!:rolleyes:

[mxmike17]

Originally posted by ACME ROCKET CO.
I took a crank seal out too! Installed it before the bearing to increase the primary compression. Lubed the bearing with the oil injector pump line and routed the over-flow to lube the chain!

The best part about that is after the oil hits the chain it then gets slung off and turnes into a fine oil mist behind him and blurs the riders vision behind him giving them no chance to pass him,lol

Billy spared none of his Road Runner & Wile E. Coyote tricks on this bad boy...beep beep:devil:

I think he is still working on the anvil launcher.:devil:

[mxmike17]

Originally posted by QuadJunkies
Eton told us to run a 7 on the plug.... This kit came with directions,the other one didint, so Trroy called Eton direct, Guess they need to be advised of this !!:rolleyes:

I kepp thinking you have the airsal kit. Im not shure what the E-ton 70 calls for. Maybe a stock e-ton 70 with oil injector and all can get by with a 7? I have always ran 8's in our stock 90.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by mxmike17
Yep mine came with a 9 too. I was advised to run atleast 105 octain too. I been running straight vp112 and Maxama Super M synthetic between 40 to 45 to 1. Mike, Im a little Baffled why they told you to run a 112 Octane??? Do you have a shaved head,CDI?? I dont understand why we would have to run that high of an Octane when its just a 70 kit ??? I dont even run Race Gas in my 426 and We dont even run that high an Octane in the Predator with all its mods..??? I can see maybe a Premiuim fuel, I just done understand the need to run that fuel..:confused: We have been running 36:1 and they were telling us to go even MORE....

[Samson]

Originally posted by mxmike17
The best part about that is after the oil hits the chain it then gets slung off and turnes into a fine oil mist behind him and blurs the riders vision behind him giving them no chance to pass him,lol

Billy spared none of his Road Runner & Wile E. Coyote tricks on this bad boy...beep beep:devil:

I think he is still working on the anvil launcher.:devil:

LMAO, that's too funny Mike! :D

You guys are about to convince me of going with the octane booster! I'm paranoid!

[markvette]

we added the wrh high performance muffler bearing to bubbas eton and it added 8 horsepower. he also has the new and improved high performance fiddler spray.

Mark

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by markvette
we added the wrh high performance muffler bearing to bubbas eton and it added 8 horsepower. he also has the new and improved high performance fiddler spray.

Mark fiddlers spray???:huh whats that??? Are you saying this is why you have to run race gas??? Does this boost up the Compression???Sorry , I guess Ive neve heard of this spray before:o :p :D

[mcatvme]

Hes just pulling your leg Quadjunkies. We run a Hetrick motor on VP C12 with Belray H1R oil. Our motor is worked alot and needs the extra octane. Evey motor is different. Give it a try. You will be surprised by the change.

Eric

[Samson]

If I install a flux capacitator, I'll need to run plutonium at what octane? :D

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by mcatvme
Hes just pulling your leg Quadjunkies. We run a Hetrick motor on VP C12 with Belray H1R oil. Our motor is worked alot and needs the extra octane. Evey motor is different. Give it a try. You will be surprised by the change.

Eric Ok. I guess Im a little slow on the jokes tonight!!..DUH....(yes, I am blonde!) I cant afford to have 3 quads running Race gas....:p We already run C-12 in the Kasea and the Predator..

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by Samson
If I install a flux capacitator, I'll need to run plutonium at what octane? :D smarty pants....:blah: :p

[markvette]

i just wanted to get in on the fun.LOL actually i mix 112 and 93 octane half and half in bubba's eton and like mike i use maxima oil mixed at 50 to 1. compression on the motor is about 170. i would at least mix half and half on the 70 kit. did you get the 70 kit where i think you did ?? oh and dont run anything but the 9 plug in it.

Mark

[Flynbryan19]

Originally posted by markvette
we added the wrh high performance muffler bearing to bubbas eton and it added 8 horsepower. he also has the new and improved high performance fiddler spray.

Mark

lmao.......sorry Tina, but I'm still laughin' over that one.....:D

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by markvette
. did you get the 70 kit where i think you did ?? oh and dont run anything but the 9 plug in it.

Mark Yes, its the Airsal kit we had before..They made we SWEAR myself to secrecy on where I got it ;) But we really liked the perfromance it gave us the first time, I think things will be MUCH better the second time now....:)

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by Flynbryan19
lmao.......sorry Tina, but I'm still laughin.....:D Troy even looked and said. WHA?????:huh No way 8 HP........:eek2:
















Unless it maybe has some bling...............:D

[little50]

How's the viper, did the cylinder kit work out well ?

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by little50
How's the viper, did the cylinder kit work out well ? So far so good!!! Were now trying out a Modified 90 carb and running Trick just having some issues getting the jetting dialed in yet, we fouled a plug on it this wk end:o first time EVER fouling a plug before!! LOL:p the Compression was in the 130's last checked before the righs had set, will do another this week :) He gave his big Sis a run for her money on her 90 on the last FT race last wk end:D and almost beat her:eek2:

[little50]

Great to here, hope everything turns out well.
I through a keihin 20mm carb on my 50cc motor, lot easier to tune compared to the stock mikuni.

good luck, keep us updated;)

[Meek]

Originally posted by Samson
If I install a flux capacitator, I'll need to run plutonium at what octane? :D

121 jigawatts or a bolt of lightning

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by little50
Great to here, hope everything turns out well.
I through a keihin 20mm carb on my 50cc motor, lot easier to tune compared to the stock mikuni.

good luck, keep us updated;)

Will do. :) So whats the going price for a Keihin anyhow?? We have been debating for a some time now on a Keihin for my Daughters as well(she now runs a 28mm flat) in her 90,its working really well, but would like to experiment with a better Carb...

[little50]

I bought mine used from miniatvs.com , Jon machined it so it would fit on the stock intake. I dont know the price becouse it was included with some cylinder work and I never got a breakdown of cost, but I just bought a koso intake and reed cage so I been looking for another keihin carb to fit better with the koso intake. On ebay prices are 50.00-75.00 for a keihin PE 20mm-28mm and about 100.00-130.00 for the keihin PWK carb wich is the cat's meow.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by little50
I bought mine used from miniatvs.com , Jon machined it so it would fit on the stock intake. I dont know the price becouse it was included with some cylinder work and I never got a breakdown of cost, but I just bought a koso intake and reed cage so I been looking for another keihin carb to fit better with the koso intake. On ebay prices are 50.00-75.00 for a keihin PE 20mm-28mm and about 100.00-130.00 for the keihin PWK carb wich is the cat's meow. I will DEF. Have to check that one out..... Thanks!:)

[Samson]

My understanding was that the 20mm Keihin PE will NOT match up with the stock intake without some machine work. So keep that in mind when you find a bargain from a non-miniatv vendor.

Sure like mine, but I couldn't tell you how much I paid either. :o


Edit: Oops, I just noticed little50 already said that.

[QuadJunkies]

I think its got some poop to it now........ :devil: Eton 70and Kasea 90 Drag (http://www.quadjunkies.neptune.com/)
Its MOVO1214 and MOVO1214 I believe... Im getting some vidoe space this week so Ill post some vids of the kids racing series :blah: :macho

[Ericthered rdr]

Originally posted by QuadJunkies
I think its got some poop to it now........ :devil: Eton 70and Kasea 90 Drag (http://www.quadjunkies.neptune.com/)
Its MOVO1214 and MOVO1214 I believe... Im getting some vidoe space this week so Ill post some vids of the kids racing series :blah: :macho

I bet your neighbors love you guys:blah:
That 50 rocks! I cant believe how much a 70 kit does for those things! Post more videos!!:D

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by Ericthered rdr
I bet your neighbors love you guys:blah:
That 50 rocks! I cant believe how much a 70 kit does for those things! Post more videos!!:D I just bought 500MB of storage today to get started so I will!!:blah:

As for my Neighbors...................







They despies us.........:o :devil: