John Kerry Is Satan?

[honda350r]

John Kerry is Satan, say fellow churchgoers
In case you have been following the sensational accusations against John Kerry regarding his heroism in Vietnam, Digby writes an excellent post on what it would take for any of these accusations to be true.
What these people are saying is that the US Navy awarded some of its highest medals for bravery to a coward. The many officers who signed those glowing fitness reports and awarded those citations are either liars or they are incompetent. The word of his shipmates, even the man whose life he saved, are worth nothing. You can't believe military documentary evidence.

[snip]

For puny, partisan reasons they are accusing the military of widespread corruption --- merely to excuse the behavior of their less than stellar candidate. In order to save that worthless little child-man, they are basically telling the American people that the US Navy rewards cowards and covers it up.
Is there any lie that won't be told to keep Bush in office? They haven't pulled out the John Kerry as Manchurian Candidate idea like they did with John McCain during the 2000 primaries. Maybe they're holding something back for an October surprise.

Ding!!

[Evan]

The next thing to it. I dont like him. If you vote for him you are ignorant. http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/

[batgeek]

Kerry isn't Satan....but,


foosball is da debil!!!!

[Hammer trx450r]

Originally posted by batgeek
Kerry isn't Satan....but,


foosball is da debil!!!!


YES MAMMA:(

[FreekShow]

Originally posted by Hammer trx450r
YES MAMMA:( She showed me her boobies and I like dem too!

[philsan]

Iy's not like he took this country to war on a lie!

quote from john kerry after vietnam...admitting to violating the Geneva Convention.


"I personally didn't see personal atrocities in the sense I saw somebody cut a head off or something like that," Kerry said. "However, I did take part in free-fire zones, I did take part in harassment and interdiction fire, I did take part in search-and-destroy missions in which the houses of noncombatants were burned to the ground. And all of these acts, I find out later on, are contrary to the Hague and Geneva conventions and to the laws of warfare. So in that sense, anybody who took part in those, if you carry out the application of the Nuremberg Principles, is in fact guilty.

http://www.scaryjohnkerry.com/vietnam.htm

[philsan]

George bush is still conducting business with OUR tax dollars with Halliburton. Which has been found to be overcharging BILLIONS of bollars,again! These are facts, not over sensationalization of things that happened over 30 yrs ago! Politics suck, just as all the lying, trickery, and slander does that is used by these "honest" candidates!

both of them suck, no matter who we choose, there will always be contreversy over it.

atleast kerry can speek in public and not sound like an idiot.

http://release.theplatform.com/content.select?pid=B9VLDazWialomHyrhcsC6BaNlrGk7Pd C&UserName=Unknown

[philsan]

I hear ya man! Power and the quest for it corrupts,taints,and *******izes everything in it's wake.
Has anyone noticed that the president is now more often referred to by the media as our leader and not our representative! How and why in the the hell is this happening!

[MOFO]

Originally posted by philsan
George bush is still conducting business with OUR tax dollars with Halliburton. Which has been found to be overcharging BILLIONS of bollars,again! These are facts, not over sensationalization of things that happened over 30 yrs ago! Politics suck, just as all the lying, trickery, and slander does that is used by these "honest" candidates!




halliburton this, halliburton that... give me a freaking break already. Everyone that uses this against President Bush is obviously clueless as to what happens.

Do you know Bill Clinton used Halliburton and gave them "no bid" contracts? I guess its OK for democrats to use them with no bid contracts... :rolleyes: Also, please tell me another company that was available for immediate rebuilding of Iraq? Or one that could do a better job for a lower price? ...and please dont give me that crap about over charging for gas... your just wasting your breath on a point that can be pulled apart and destroyed.

Also to take issue with your "Bush took us to war on a lie"... do you know John Kerry has been quoted SEVERAL times agreeing with the fact that Saddam MUST be removed and does have WMD... kinda funny how he has "flipped" again on his stance... and using this as an issue. Its actually sick to see how many times Kerry has "flipped" on important issues.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by philsan

Has anyone noticed that the president is now more often referred to by the media as our leader and not our representative! How and why in the the hell is this happening!



last time I checked, the President of the United States of America is our leader....unless you live in another country.

[Jellyrolls]

^ what he said

[SGA]

Originally posted by MOFO
last time I checked, the President of the United States of America is our leader....unless you live in another country.
True, like him or not he is our leader and he needs to be backed by us.

John Kerry is Satan... BS!
Hes just a man running for office.
Be thankful you have a choice and can speak your opinions. In many countries if you speak your mind about politics, you vanish.

Go vote for who you feel is the best person for the job and quit whining if your man doesnt win.

[Guy400]

Eric is right, Clinton did give Halliburton no-bid contracts and Gore praised Halliburton for their work. Halliburton won the 1992 LOGCAP contract but then lost it in 1997. Clinton went ahead and awarded them a no-bid contract in the Balkans despite the fact that they weren't the lowest bidder. LMFAO...it's permissible when Clinton did it but a different President uses the same company for the same type of reconstruction work and it's suddenly so wrong? This is a prime example of someone watching too much Chicken Noodle News and walking around like an echo machine. Halliburton is quite simply the biggest company to handle a job of the magnitude in Iraq. Time didn't allow for a year's worth of analyzation and bidding. The work had to start immediately and Halliburton was the only company up to the task.

[philsan]

The way this thread is going is exactly why politics suck.and it's still for the people by the people, right?

[Goat397]

its the times thats screwing over bush not himself, i doubt many people could do a better job and make better decisions. the same happend when woodrow wilson put the us into wwII. everyone bashed him and now we look at him as one of the greatest presidents ever. and for poeple putting this 9/11 thing on bush, BS put it on clinton he had the chance to blow that osama f#cker to peices but he was a coward and didnt stand up to the opertunity, were lucky with what we have

[MOFO]

Originally posted by philsan
The way this thread is going is exactly why politics suck.

Why would that be? Are you saying debates should not be part of politics?? If people want to make crazy claims on a public forum, be ready for a public debate debunking those claims.

[redrider69]

yea i think both of em suck but i prolly go with kerry cause bush killed americans for nothing they never found a nuclear bomb he just wanted to start chit

http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.c om/

ps not the greatist site for kids b/c of language

[philsan]

This is not a forum for political debate. It's one where people express their OPINIONS, you know, like refering to people as clueless and calling their opinions crazy. Oh yea, politics still suck!

[batgeek]

whether it was meant to be one or not, i will always eventually get to that point.

if you are willing to express your opinion, be prepared for a counterpoint....and, to be able to support and/or debunk the challenger's opinion.

don't come to a gun fight with a knife. just your forewarning.

[philsan]

Politics suck.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by philsan
Politics suck.

would you prefer NOT to be able to openly debate an issue as important as the leader of the free world?


I am so happy to read the ignorance posted by those that support Kerry. Here is a clue....."If you sound more uneducated then the man your calling stupid then maybe you should reconsider posting"

[philsan]

Man, what was I thinking. I read in a post on another forum that " argueing on a message board is like competing in the Special Olympics,You may win but you're still retarded". I guess I did get brain damage from my wreck at the London race. Oh yea, kerry rides quads! Bush rides ponys. I'm outta here!

[Pappy]

Originally posted by philsan
Man, what was I thinking. I read in a post on another forum that " argueing on a message board is like competing in the Special Olympics,You may win but you're still retarded".

LMFAO....7 posts ..all argueing and you post that! rotflmao:p

[philsan]

Yea, I'm a retard. No wait, I said all that and there's no way I could've been calling myself a retard.DUH, I was admitting to it DUH! I guess you're not one either. Nor would anyone else contibuting to the thread.

[Pappy]

you wouldnt be calling ME a retard would ya:confused:

[wilkin250r]

Pappy's not a retard, but he does open a can of whoop-***** on them every once in a while...:D

[Admin]

Enough, Enough, I say just wait and see. I honestly think Doug Gust could do a better job running the Country than either one of these guys.:D

[Hammer trx450r]

Originally posted by EXriders Admin
Enough, Enough, I say just wait and see. I honestly think Doug Gust could do a better job running the Country than either one of these guys.:D

I agree, or me:D Hammer for president:blah:

[Hammer trx450r]

To be honest with you, give me someone that doesnt sound like an idiot in front of these other countries. Do we really think they are actually running the country? they are on vaca, reading to kidsand playing golf. They are our voice to the world and I'm sorry but I don't want Bush speaking for me, nor do i want him to tell me what i can say and i am shocked that he stopped stem cell research.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Pappy's not a retard, but he does open a can of whoop-***** on them every once in a while...:D

i agree 100% that politics suck. ofcourse we have the earned right to say that without worrying about having our head chopped off.

there are entirely too many dumbasses in this world. 75% of todays population between the age of 16 and 25 would more then likely cower and run from an enemy while the other 25% would stand and fight. i guess its always been that way yet the freedom won was for 100% of us. damn cowards stand behind the curtain of freedom and spout crap about our leaders, our country and would be the first to run and hide if defending this nation came to be.

open debate is healthy, needed, and encouraged. yet people take it too far. when in doubt...spout lie's and 1/2 truths. this goes for both sides of the political field. it sickens me. and yet when faced with facts that can be proved they deny them.

reality is what it is. politicians are now making career's out of hustling the american public when they used to be hand picked from thier peers and asked to lead thier fellow man.

you show me a politician like that nowadays and he will have my vote.

[wilkin250r]

Pappy brings up a good point about politicians aren't leaders, they're just mud-slingers and hustlers. An honest politician doesn't exist any more. Every American citizen has the right to vote, but I honestly believe that not every person should exercise it.

You hear people spout about how sad the turnout is on election day. That less than half of the population are registered voters, and even then there is only a percentage of those registered that actually turn out and vote. They say we need more voter turnout.

I say BS. Let's take this little forum for example (even though many are under voting age). You can see it for yourself the incredible level of stupidity running rampant, can you imagine if these people were actually voting? :eek: "My friend's father's brother lost his job, and blames it on Bush for letting companies go overseas, so 9/11 was all Bush's fault..."

Personally, I'd like to encourage people NOT to vote. Unless you have watched every debate, and researched the stance of each political candidate, as well as researched the topics for yourself, then stay the heck out of it. Let somebody smarter and more motivated than you make the descision. An uninformed vote is MUCH worse than no vote at all.

[lukester720]

An uninformed vote is MUCH worse than no vote at all.

I agree! i suppose they could guess and mabey make the right decision but I'd rather them not take that kind of gamble with my freedoms!:eek2:

[Hammer trx450r]

It would be nice to state your opinion without someone calling you a coward or an uneducated person. Hitler is what happens when the people DON'T question their leaders. 1/2 truths are the ones we brought to the UN!! Speak your reasons why Bush is so great because alot of the young 18 - 25 yr olds around here are in Iraq, afganistan, or just getting home from there. Far from cowards.

[Guy400]

Hitler is what happens when the world community refuses to step up and confront a madman. The U.N. was doing the same thing Europe did in the mid-30's with Hitler--appeasing. Rather than stepping up and giving the bully a bloody nose they slowly allowed them to get away with things by saying, "OK, that's against the rules but we'll let it go if you promise not to do anything else." Next thing you know they woke up damn near too late.
March 1936 - Hitler sends his troops into the Rhineland violating the Treaty of Versailles. France and Britain did nothing.
October 1936 - Italy joins with Germany and creates the Axis Powers. No response from the other European nations.
November 1936 - Japan joins the Axis. Still no response.
March 1938 - Hitler sends troops into Austria. Austria asks Europe for help but they ignore them.
September 1938 - At the Munich Conference Neville Chamberlain tells Hitler he can take a portion of Czechoslovakia if he promises not to invade anyone else.
September 1939 - Hitler invades Poland and Britain and France finally declare war on Germany.

Doesn't the above sound freakishly similar to the U.N. resolutions against Iraq? There have been 25 since 1996 alone. The U.N. kept warning Saddam to stop what he's doing, allow regular inspections, operate the Oil-for-Food program the way it's intended to be run or there will be consequences. There were never any consequences and everytime Saddam did something the U.N. wrote another resolution warning him. When does warning him become enough and when does the time come for real consequences? When he's got a nuclear weapon?

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Guy400
Hitler is what happens when the world community refuses to step up and confront a madman. The U.N. was doing the same thing Europe did in the mid-30's with Hitler--appeasing. Rather than stepping up and giving the bully a bloody nose they slowly allowed them to get away with things by saying, "OK, that's against the rules but we'll let it go if you promise not to do anything else." Next thing you know they woke up damn near too late.
March 1936 - Hitler sends his troops into the Rhineland violating the Treaty of Versailles. France and Britain did nothing.
October 1936 - Italy joins with Germany and creates the Axis Powers. No response from the other European nations.
November 1936 - Japan joins the Axis. Still no response.
March 1938 - Hitler sends troops into Austria. Austria asks Europe for help but they ignore them.
September 1938 - At the Munich Conference Neville Chamberlain tells Hitler he can take a portion of Czechoslovakia if he promises not to invade anyone else.
September 1939 - Hitler invades Poland and Britain and France finally declare war on Germany.

Doesn't the above sound freakishly similar to the U.N. resolutions against Iraq? There have been 25 since 1996 alone. The U.N. kept warning Saddam to stop what he's doing, allow regular inspections, operate the Oil-for-Food program the way it's intended to be run or there will be consequences. There were never any consequences and everytime Saddam did something the U.N. wrote another resolution warning him. When does warning him become enough and when does the time come for real consequences? When he's got a nuclear weapon?


One thing is for sure, history always tends to repeat itself. Only if more people knew their history and would learn from it... then they would have a better understanding of todays current and upcoming problems.

I know these debates can get heated at times, but I always enjoy reading them because I like to see both sides and how the other side forms their opinion.

[Hammer trx450r]

Originally posted by Guy400
Hitler is what happens when the world community refuses to step up and confront a madman. The U.N. was doing the same thing Europe did in the mid-30's with Hitler--appeasing. Rather than stepping up and giving the bully a bloody nose they slowly allowed them to get away with things by saying, "OK, that's against the rules but we'll let it go if you promise not to do anything else." Next thing you know they woke up damn near too late.
March 1936 - Hitler sends his troops into the Rhineland violating the Treaty of Versailles. France and Britain did nothing.
October 1936 - Italy joins with Germany and creates the Axis Powers. No response from the other European nations.
November 1936 - Japan joins the Axis. Still no response.
March 1938 - Hitler sends troops into Austria. Austria asks Europe for help but they ignore them.
September 1938 - At the Munich Conference Neville Chamberlain tells Hitler he can take a portion of Czechoslovakia if he promises not to invade anyone else.
September 1939 - Hitler invades Poland and Britain and France finally declare war on Germany.

Doesn't the above sound freakishly similar to the U.N. resolutions against Iraq? There have been 25 since 1996 alone. The U.N. kept warning Saddam to stop what he's doing, allow regular inspections, operate the Oil-for-Food program the way it's intended to be run or there will be consequences. There were never any consequences and everytime Saddam did something the U.N. wrote another resolution warning him. When does warning him become enough and when does the time come for real consequences? When he's got a nuclear weapon?

I bow to your knowledge of history. But why do we leave South Korea alone? They have capabilities to hit us with what we know to be nuclear weapons. They too have broken their sanctions.

I only argue points so as to better educate myself by seeing it from both sides. Thank you Guy400 for that awesome post

[sethg]

I guess most these guys on this board don't manage anything.

Pappy, I disagree with you. Bush is a leader. He is the only president to ever have an MBA degree, and from the case analysis' I've read about his management style and approach, he is definitely a leader. Today's leaders have to be managers.

Bush relies more on others in his close circle that he does on his own thinking. Granted he does make the final decision.

[400exrules]

Originally posted by honda350r
John Kerry is Satan, say fellow churchgoers


I KNEW IT:eek2: :eek: :mad: :eek:

[Guy400]

Originally posted by Hammer trx450r
But why do we leave South Korea alone? They have capabilities to hit us with what we know to be nuclear weapons. They too have broken their sanctions.We leave South Korea alone because they are our allies:D North Korea are the crazies with the nukes :eek2: But in all seriousness, North Korea has been half-cocked for years. Clinton couldn't deal with them and there was concrete evidence that they were attempting to build nuclear weapons. Jimmy Carter goes to North Korea in 1994 and gets them to sign the Agreed Framework which basically states that if North Korea stops their attempts at obtaining nuclear weapons the U.S. would give them energy and food aid and help build low-level nuclear powerplants. All seems well and it appears as if it's a victory for diplomacy rather than heavy handedness. Bush gets into office and years worth of intelligence is saying that despite the Agreed Framework, North Korea is still building nukes. Bush instantly pulls the plug on the energy and food aid and tells North Korea that if they want any aid from the U.S. than they've got to stop with the nukes and stick to the Agreed Framework and Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty they signed. North Korea tells us that they'll stop building if we promise them we won't attack. Bush tells them he's making no such promises because if they build nukes capable of reaching us than you can bet your *** we'll drop the hammer on them if one even comes close to U.S. territory. The reason we're not in North Korea right now is that the Bush Administration knows North Korea is doing nothing more than a bunch of saber-rattling. They're making a bunch of noise in an attempt to intimidate us into giving them oil and food. North Korea knows that if they ever seriously threaten any neighboring country (or us) with nuclear weapons than they'd have Japan, China, Russia, Australia, us and a European friend putting more military pressure on them that they could stand.

This is my own personal opinion but I see a showdown with Iran before anything with North Korea.

[Hammer trx450r]

[QOUTE]This is my own personal opinion but I see a showdown with Iran before anything with North Korea.

Its looking that way to me too. Did you see the story about the dutch reporters that got in to interview school kids in NORTH (duh) Korea about the ann frank book?

When Ben Laudin bombed the World Trade Center the first time Bill Clinton spent millions of dollars trying to convict Bill Gates of monopoly practices in business. When the same terrorists bombed the USS Cole, Bill Clinton again went after Bill Gates and tried to convict him of monopoly practices in business. The reason terrorists have gained so much power in the world lately is because the US refused to stand up while under liberal control. The world is no longer a safe place for terrorists and millions of people are safer because of it.

[Pappy]

Pappy, I disagree with you. Bush is a leader. He is the only president to ever have an MBA degree, and from the case analysis' I've read about his management style and approach, he is definitely a leader. Today's leaders have to be managers.

Out of the two candidates Bush will recieve my vote.

He isnt the leader this country wants but he is what we need...IMO. He may be able to manage but to lead you must inspire trust and loyalty and thats not happening in this country. I agree with enough of Bush's theology and leadership that as stated, he will recieve my vote.


As far as why the USA has had troops stationed abroad is only a history book away. WW2 taught us that the American Military presence was needed in certain areas to basically force the peace. It has worked for 50 + years and will continue to work but I agree on down sizing the number of forces to meet todays needs. Terrorism must be fought on a fluid basis and will probably involve a much wider spread deployment of our forces over the next 10 years.

Speak your reasons why Bush is so great because alot of the young 18 - 25 yr olds around here are in Iraq, afganistan, or just getting home from there. Far from cowards

While I completely agree with you regarding the young men and women of this country who have stepped up and are proudly serving thier countries needs, however. There is a growing rebelion in this country's youth that seems to be more pacifist in nature. Reading posts on other boards and this one, reading poll data and communicating with the younger generation leaves me with the impression they would rather turn a blind eye to issues where thier personal lives may be disrupted(i.e. Military service) I sure am glad the generation that fought WW2 didnt have this mentality or maybe we would all be goosestepping on saturdays instead of riding quads.

Freedom isnt free and its defense may come in many ways and at high cost. And anyone who doesnt want to defend freedom is a coward in my book...period.

[sethg]

Originally posted by Pappy
[B]He isnt the leader this country wants but he is what we need...IMO. He may be able to manage but to lead you must inspire trust and loyalty and thats not happening in this country.

I agree he doesn't inspire most. However, he does always stick to what he says and doesn't waiver (another topic). Unfortunately, Americans today believe everything they see on CNN and MSNBC, and its all liberal. No wonder nobody likes Bush, I wouldn't if all I did was watch CNN and listen to people in Hollywood with little more than a high school education who don't know anything about running a country. I hope for everyones future Bush wins.

Besides this, Democrats are tree huggers anyway!!!! Why are we even having this discussion?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by sethg
Why are we even having this discussion?

simply because we can:cool: god bless america

[Hammer trx450r]

Originally posted by Pappy
simply because we can:cool: god bless america

Ill second that:D

[RGERBER875]

I am very political but will spare you all , the one thing you need to know as ATV riders is that the republicans do not cater to the environmental special interest groups and the democrats do, oil is a special interest to republicans so the point is to save your sport you have to vote republican, vote BUSH

[honda350r]

I know I'm not any better off than I was 4 years ago. We're still incredibly vulnerable to asymmetric attacks from terrorists...maybe not substantially safer than we were before 9/11. Our borders are still wide open. Our intelligence agencies still don't share information. Tom Ridge, the powerless Homeland Security Agency and the increased airport security are all more window dressing than anything else. The deficit is growing astronomically. The economy is sputtering. We'll have to keep hundreds of thousands of troops in Iraq for years (if not decades) to come and spread the rest of our military way to thin around the rest of the world. Drug companies and oil companies are raping the average citizen on a daily basis. And, he'd rather send human tissue to the bio-hazard waste dump than allow stem cell research that could possibly save millions of lives and help so many more that are suffering with terrible diseases...because he believes more in creationism than he does in science.

Considering that the Republicans control the house, senate and oval office, its amazing how little they've accomplished other than starting something in Afghanistan that they haven't finished and going to war in Iraq under false pretenses. Did I mention cutting the taxes for the wealthy while letting the middle class bear even more of the tax burden? Once upon a time, Dubya's daddy called that voodoo econonics. Reagan called it trickle down on you economics.

But, maybe Dubya will unveil Osama's head on plate at the Republican convention next week and all will be "right" with the world.

And, that's all I've got to say about the state of politics in America in 2004.

[Pappy]

WHAT!!! no mention of Kerry's record in vietnam....no mention to the fact that now the actual commander of the swift boat Kerry was in when he recieved one of his purple hearts has told him and the american people he is full of chit! no mention that General Giap(commander of teh north vietnamese armed forces during the vietnam war) stated in his memoirs that Hanoi would have crumbled if it were not for the likes of Jane Fonda and John Kerry telling thier fellow countrymen that the US Military was commiting war crimes!(he mentioned this as the #1 reason Hanoi stayed in the fight was because of the disent caused by this type of negativity and civil unrest in the united states over the war)

jane fonda and john kerry....what a match!

preach all you want....Kerry will lose this election, political correctness and the democratic party will both suffer severly from the loss and ill be happy knowing the united states isnt being run by a liar, a coward and a TRAITOR!

[sparky450AR]

Originally posted by Pappy
[B]
There is a growing rebelion in this country's youth that seems to be more pacifist in nature. Reading posts on other boards and this one, reading poll data and communicating with the younger generation leaves me with the impression they would rather turn a blind eye to issues where thier personal lives may be disrupted(i.e. Military service) I sure am glad the generation that fought WW2 didnt have this mentality or maybe we would all be goosestepping on saturdays instead of riding quads.

Freedom isnt free and its defense may come in many ways and at high cost. And anyone who doesnt want to defend freedom is a coward in my book...period.


I talked to my dad about war the other night. He is the bravest, most honest, and intelligent man I have ever spoken to. He said while growing up, he thought a lot about being drafted, and it terrified him. It wasnt the fact that he was going to war, it was the fact of him having to shoot someone dead with a gun. someone that he had never seen before, someone that may have the same fear that he had. Pappy, my dad loves this county, but I dont think he is a coward. I also know that he would go to war for freedom or the U.S., if needed.

I also think that you basing my entire generations mentallity on a few punks that you have talked to online, is entirely unfair. There are the right people for the job.




I hope you are right on this!!!
"preach all you want....Kerry will lose this election, political correctness and the democratic party will both suffer severly from the loss and ill be happy knowing the united states isnt being run by a liar, a coward and a TRAITOR!"

[batgeek]

but I dont think he is a coward. I also know that he would go to war for freedom or the U.S., if needed.

thats the difference in attitudes of the generations. duty to one's country.

we now live in the ME ME ME generation where the majority of ALL ages think about themselves first.

blame the 60's and hippies.

Kerry is a tree hugger and Edwards stopped all access to public land to ORVin his home state. So you vote for Kerry and you are voting against off road riding.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by sparky450AR
I talked to my dad about war the other night. He is the bravest, most honest, and intelligent man I have ever spoken to. He said while growing up, he thought a lot about being drafted, and it terrified him. It wasnt the fact that he was going to war, it was the fact of him having to shoot someone dead with a gun. someone that he had never seen before, someone that may have the same fear that he had. Pappy, my dad loves this county, but I dont think he is a coward. I also know that he would go to war for freedom or the U.S., if needed.

I also think that you basing my entire generations mentallity on a few punks that you have talked to online, is entirely unfair. There are the right people for the job.




i wouldnt consider your father a coward. i would simply add that my father joined the marine corps and 3 weeks after graduated high school was in basic training. 9 moths later he was in vietnam doing what he felt was what his country needed him to do. he fought, he killed, he was injured (3 purple hearts and a silver star) during his 3 tours in country. he returned to the marine corps after his last injury (18 weeks in bethesda naval hospital for wounds recieved from a grenade) he was informed that since he had recieved his 3rd purple heart he didnt have to go back to combat. he volunteered again for service but was transfered to camp lejune to train snipers where he stayed for 18 months until his full 4th tour was compete. my dad is a hero to me, and the strongest willed man i know. and for someone like john kerry to come back to this country by using the falsehoods he did to get out of combat and then to have the unmitigated gull to call the soldiers still in active combat mind you, war criminals is going too far.

secondly, i dont base my interpretation of YOUR generation off the internet soley. i do however think that each generation gets weaker (maybe thats natural) but in any event we have a group of this generation in IRAQ and in AFGHANISTAN at this moment doing what THEY feel is right for the protection of our country. you can bash the president, you can bash country, but when you do those things in a time of war you also bash the soldiers in the field. and yes, believe it or not we are at war.

"i have answered my call to duty. i would gladly lay down my life for this country when asked. i am a soldier who knows no defeat. i will not fail."

think of these things the next time someone spouts off about our country and what we are doing in the war on terror. it may not mean much to you seeing it on tv, but i promise you it means much much more to our brave soldiers defending our freedom.

and i know the deepest thing that haunts my dad is the fact that the first person he ever killed was a 16 year old girl who emerged from a tunnel mere yards from him. he cut her in half and never gave it a second thought then, but he see's her face every day now. yet with such strong memories he talks most often of the treatment of the US soldiers who came home to nothing.

30+ years after this war the effects of the failure of the american people to support its troops has reprecussions. noone says you have to support the president, vote him out if you feel its required, but dont disgrace this country by not supporting the troops or the ideals that this great nation was founded upon.

this nation is too easily divided. our enemy knows this.

[sparky450AR]

Originally posted by Pappy
i wouldnt consider your father a coward. i would simply add that my father joined the marine corps and 3 weeks after graduated high school was in basic training. 9 moths later he was in vietnam doing what he felt was what his country needed him to do. he fought, he killed, he was injured (3 purple hearts and a silver star) during his 3 tours in country. he returned to the marine corps after his last injury (18 weeks in bethesda naval hospital for wounds recieved from a grenade) he was informed that since he had recieved his 3rd purple heart he didnt have to go back to combat. he volunteered again for service but was transfered to camp lejune to train snipers where he stayed for 18 months until his full 4th tour was compete. my dad is a hero to me, and the strongest willed man i know. and for someone like john kerry to come back to this country by using the falsehoods he did to get out of combat and then to have the unmitigated gull to call the soldiers still in active combat mind you, war criminals is going too far.

secondly, i dont base my interpretation of YOUR generation off the internet soley. i do however think that each generation gets weaker (maybe thats natural) but in any event we have a group of this generation in IRAQ and in AFGHANISTAN at this moment doing what THEY feel is right for the protection of our country. you can bash the president, you can bash country, but when you do those things in a time of war you also bash the soldiers in the field. and yes, believe it or not we are at war.

"i have answered my call to duty. i would gladly lay down my life for this country when asked. i am a soldier who knows no defeat. i will not fail."

think of these things the next time someone spouts off about our country and what we are doing in the war on terror. it may not mean much to you seeing it on tv, but i promise you it means much much more to our brave soldiers defending our freedom.

and i know the deepest thing that haunts my dad is the fact that the first person he ever killed was a 16 year old girl who emerged from a tunnel mere yards from him. he cut her in half and never gave it a second thought then, but he see's her face every day now. yet with such strong memories he talks most often of the treatment of the US soldiers who came home to nothing.

30+ years after this war the effects of the failure of the american people to support its troops has reprecussions. noone says you have to support the president, vote him out if you feel its required, but dont disgrace this country by not supporting the troops or the ideals that this great nation was founded upon.

this nation is too easily divided. our enemy knows this.


Awesome post, I agree that it is such an insult to our soldiers. When I think back on that dumbass movie, Fahrenhiet 9/11, and moore basically saying our soldiers are nothing but trigger happy goons, it really pisses me off.

[Hammer trx450r]

generations are getting weaker because of the way we raise our kids. TV, playstation, computers(exriders.com) all take the blame.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Hammer trx450r
generations are getting weaker because of the way we raise our kids. TV, playstation, computers(exriders.com) all take the blame.

maybe weaker isnt the correct term. possibly the constant wave of death and violence, corruption and such has desensitized us. i didnt see my first dead body till I was 16 and running fire calls. my son is 11 and thru TV and other forms of media I bet he has seen thousands.

[400exdad]

This is an awesome thread! While I feel like I am "informed", I always learn new things and viewpoints when I take the time to read long threads like these. As I was reading, I was trying to think of something to add... but I doubt I could improve on what Guy400 and Pappy have already stated.

However, I have to say something.... :)

Bush IS the lesser of the two evils. He stands for freedom and stands his ground even though it may not be the most popular. Kerry stands for nothing. If Kerry somehow wins, it will be the demise of this country and the axe will be falling on the world as a whole. While I know this is inevitable (read the Bible) I am not ready for this to happen. Why you ask, if I am saved and know what is waiting is better? Because of the horror all of us will endure (mainly my kids) as the world comes to an end.

[honda350r]

Originally posted by 400exdad

However, I have to say something.... :)

Bush IS the lesser of the two evils. He stands for freedom and stands his ground even though it may not be the most popular. Kerry stands for nothing. If Kerry somehow wins, it will be the demise of this country and the axe will be falling on the world as a whole. While I know this is inevitable (read the Bible) I am not ready for this to happen. Why you ask, if I am saved and know what is waiting is better? Because of the horror all of us will endure (mainly my kids) as the world comes to an end.


You have got to be kidding! Politics and religion don't mix !!!


Bush stands for No new jobs and thousands more with no health care and a huge out of control deficit!

You guys said the same ***** before Clinton was elected!


Democrats have lead this nation to all the great war victorys!! (Atleast the ones that counted)

[Pappy]

the one's that counted?

with your comment you disgrace every soldier killed in action no matter how "small" the conflict was. thanks for bring out the sid eof the american public that has no respect for what our freedoms cost.

as far as the democrats being the leaders in the conflicts, if you go back to FDR or even kennedy and compare thier "democratic" party you will see that todays democrat is much different. so apples to oranges comparisions arent appliable IMO.

face the fact the the democratic party has chosen the most far left candidate with one of the most far left voting records in the government only placing second to Ted Kennedy!

every time a Kerry supporter runs out of room to argue they try and bash bush. keep bush out of the arguement and you will soon see your "MAN" is a liar, a traitor to his country, a left wing politician and in his personal life is a blue blooded high society toy boy who hides beneath the protective wing of his wife! and speaking of tereza....why wont she disclose her financial records? why is she doing the trash talk in this campaign?

its coming unraveled at both ends of the Kerry camp. maybe he should claim credit for inventing the internet like Gore did..lmfao!

[TC426EX]

Its sad to see the turn of the democratic party recently. With all major branches of the government run by republicans, and the defeat of gore last election, the democratic party has taken the howard dean approach and tried to energize its core support base to take this election. Unfortunately the core support of the democratic party these days is a bunch of fanatics that are trying to promote an anything goes, secular, politically correct nation, which I oppose. They have chosen the most LIBERAL candidate possible. How can anyone get up and listen to Kerry talk and consider voting for him? He comes accross as a big phony to me. I am not a DIE HARD bush supporter but I think he is a better candidate for sure. If there was a more centrist democrat competing like Lieberman I might give the democratic candidate more of my time.

The only reason all this vietnam talk has been coming out lately is because Kerry MADE that the main issue of his campaign! I am an informed voter, and even though I am voting for bush 100%, I still tuned in to the Dem convention to hear what he had to say. Almost the whole talk was vietnam and none on substance or policy and what would differentiate a Kerry presidency from the bush administration. He wants to get mad at the swift boat ads when they are merely questioning the main issue he has made his campaign into. Now maybe Im dumb, but the words kerry said after he came back on the senate floor make him either guilty of purjury or a war criminal himself, either way, not fit for office. He is a coward and traitor in my eyes, and did harm to our troops then with his rhetoric and is doing harm to our troops today.

Keep in mind that these "527" swiftboat ads the dems are complaining about represent about 1.4 million dollars worth of advertising. Compare that to the 65 MILLION dollars spent by democratic 527 groups calling bush everything from a liar to comparing him to hitler. Its a total disgrace, and I am sick of it.

I think this election has to get back to the issues at hand and what really will separate the 2 administrations. Kerry, tell me what youd do different besides promise the moon... Kerry is not gonna go and make everything kosher with france and russia and all them, not when they are opposing our actions because of black market closed door dealings with nations like iraq and sudan. All this should come out of the oil for food scandal investigation but probably wont be fully exposed because of the unrest it would cause by calling russia and france out. Oh yeah, and the bunkers saddam was hiding in during our invasion were MADE BY GERMANS!!! I could go on and on, but if you think voting in a massachusetts democrat like kerry and his ultra liberal ideology will fix this nation I think you have problems. The democratic party of 50-60 years ago is more aligned with todays conservative party than the extremist democrats today. The conservatives are about preserving the traditional US values of my father and grandfathers generation (the best generations to me) and I dont want all those ideals chipped down by today's democratic fanatics....

[400exdad]

Originally posted by honda350r
You guys said the same ***** before Clinton was elected!

I voted for Clinton! Two times. I finally got my head right, realized what was best for my kids and my country. Plus, I was appalled and sickened by the mockery good ole Bill made of the Whitehouse. I voted for Bush in 2000 and I'll vote for him again in 2004. While Bush is in office, I doubt I'll have to turn off the evening news because of its presidential news updates being X rated because of a no sex sex thing. Kerry is telling lies just like Clinton did.


Originally posted by honda350r
Democrats have lead this nation to all the great war victorys!! (Atleast the ones that counted)

All wars have counted. Get real! If America went to war it was (is) every Americans duty to support the soldiers who are going to war and help the country win its cause. If Kerry is elected, I can promise you we will lose this war. Or will this one be a war that didn't count? Either because we lost or because the war wasn't initially led by a Democrat.

You cannot say anything good, based on his history, of Kerry. If you don't like his Vietnam record, look at what he has done the past 20 years.... Nothing. Furthermore, Tereza is more evil than Hillary ever was (is).

I can't wait for the debates! I imagine you'll see who has the real b@lls to run this country (I'll tell you now that it will be Bush!) and Kerry to take, cheap, shots to try to sway the uniformed voter.

[batgeek]

I doubt I'll have to turn off the evening news because of its presidential news updates being X rated because of a no sex sex thing.

if i was married to Laura Bush, i'd be hitting that shizz nightly!

if i was married to Hilary Clinton, hell ya i'de be cheating on her!

the debates should be interesting...

i'll laugh everytime Bush slaughters the English language, and i'll take a shot every time Kerry mentions anything about his war experience.

should be a jolly f*ckin good time :D

[440exnacsracer]

OMG, you people are supporting an idiot. you are supporting a guy making the next vietnam. last week, we had the most deadly day yet in the war with 25 casualties.,..that means in ONE of YOUR normal days sitting over here in the states, 25 BRAVE MEN lost their lives the most frightening situation imaginable. WHAT are they fighting for??? they must be asking themselves this. WHY are they dying? because too many people dont give a rats *** about their lives, thats why. and some people say "o we are fighting terrorism" ...if you think that, you are an idiot, we keep loosing people and terrorism is up over 50% since 9/11. if you are such a hardass on this war, be a man, a real man and quite your jobs NOW and sign up for the military....think about it, deep down inside, your scared. i respect the men and women fighting, but not the people behind bush and his rampage against the world

[Hammer trx450r]

OMG Pappy's gonna get arm pump from typing to this one:p

[440exnacsracer]

i know everyone has their opinions, i just hope everyone will at least take my views into consideration

[batgeek]

its the intarweb...nobody gives a sh*t about your opinion....

you didn't get the memo? :confused:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by 440exnacsracer
i know everyone has their opinions, i just hope everyone will at least take my views into consideration

what i get from your opinion is that YOU ARE THE ONE SCARED. ill ruck and ship out tomarrow no questions asked. rack a full mag and let's rock. and yes, ill do my duty for god and country so you have the freedom to doubt your government.

its the MEN that answer the call that provide our rights.

terrorism up:confused: there would have to be 2 more 9/11 type attacks to reach your hypothetical 50% increase....when did they happen i missed them.

it took "al-raghead" 20 years to get organized enough to do what they are doing, a reasonable person would summize its not going to be fixed overnight.

and i agree, if you feel strongly enough about this fight then by all means join up. if not, you are still protected by those that did and are fighting this war....on thier shores...killing thier people...destroying thier land. i geuss maybe when some towel monkey opens up on 5th avenue in NY and lays down 50 to 75 civilians then maybe you people who havent seen what war is and true terror is brought to your streets. do you honestly think 9/11 is as bad as it gets? please. the worst is still to come.

i value an opposing view but i'd like some logic in the thinking and credible facts to support the arguement.

turn off the tv and head down to the VFW. find yourself a vet and chat with him for awhile.

vietnam? people who claim the situation in IRAG<---yep IRAG...is anything remotely in the same context are in need of a history book.

1st...Vietnam was till the end run by a government (the people fighting in irag are overall small in number lead by those that have nothing to lead them...they must fight and die. yet they have noone governing them)

2nd...The north vietnamese and viet-cong were supplied by countries outside its borders that we couldnt and wouldnt touch(what do you think would happen if the U.S. found a pipe line of supplies being ferried in from IRAN?)

3rd...The United States had a cause in vietnam. to stop the spread of communism by fighting a limited war. And in the end it did win the war, largely based on the economic drain forced on russia and china leading to the ultimate demise of russia(took 20 years) and the weakening of china in the following years.(the purpose of the war in irag is too oust saddam hussien and restore a democratic form of government . both have been met)

4th... During the vietnam war we had leadership that didnt know what direction it wanted to go. (in irag we have a leadership that took us where we needed to go and got the job done. now is an occupation time while the new government is set up and a normal way of life restored.)

5th... The american media played right to the vietnamese and we had much disention in this country by those that didnt understand the scope (i dont think many really did) of what the cause was. (the majority of this country is behind what we are doing in irag and history will bare this out)

now im by no means an expert but i can see what the problems are with regards to Iraq. I sure as hell dont want our forces sitting ducks (lebanon 1983) but i sure as hell dont want them pulled out until the hostilities have ended. in my personal opinion the US government has once again showed its weakness by stopping short of what ultimatley must be done. i say government because a military mindset doesnt stop the war because 300 insurgents hole up in a place of worship. thats politics and it sucks no matter who wears the presidents hat.

and i cant help but chuckle at this...

if you are such a hardass on this war, be a man, a real man and quite your jobs NOW and sign up for the military....think about it, deep down inside, your scared.

first off if your in combat and not scared your probably dead. secondly, a large number of americans have quit(,---spelled correctly) thier jobs to support thier country.

now, ill pack my bags if they will take me....will you? trust me, most would want me on thier 6 if it hit the fan not someone who is unsure what we are doing there.

feel free to resond in an adult manner but post factual information please. i get tired of chasing down information only to find out its false or made up.

[Pappy]

and to add: (arm pump:D )

my take on why we decided to pounce on Iraq?

if you study history and have a logical base of information to draw from you can start to see a pattern develope and from that deduce an hypothosis on the answer. mine is as follows...

after 9/11 the U.S. knew the root cause of the terrorism was based in the middle east. with that in mind they first went after the Taliban in Afghanistan. They were supporting fundementalist such as Bin Laden so they got the hammer dropped on them first. with that country pretty much controlled they (U.S> government) needed a strong presence in the middle east to draw a line in the sand as it were, to show that we were serious. Iraq being in full and blatent violation of the N.A.T.O. sanctions (19 of them if i remeber correctly) was just the place to levy such a stance.

now, my theology also leads me to believe that if the war in Iraq had not turned into a battle with insurgents we would already be in other countries going after terrorists and those that support them. id say we still have work to do around the world and it wont end anytime soon.


and i also feel that the U.S. is in its current position because it has once again listened to the views of those that think a full scale assualt against areas that are deemed "sacred" is not the way to win the support needed from the populations in Iraq. I say to hell with them and take any enemy out wherever they are encountered. build them a new mosque or send in Iraqi troops to do what needs to be done.


dont take my words for anything more then a tid bit of info. get some books and read about who we are fighting. read about thier mind set and thier religious beliefs. read about why they dont like the United States and what it stands for.

[400exdad]

Originally posted by 440exnacsracer
.... if you are such a hardass on this war, be a man, a real man and quite your jobs NOW and sign up for the military....think about it, deep down inside, your scared. i respect the men and women fighting, but not the people behind bush and his rampage against the world

Yes I am scared. I'm scared that the war may continue and my son may have to go to the aid of his country. He experiencing things that I have not (War). I have been blessed... No, we all have been blessed by the actions of our forefathers. Both in war and in our jobs. However, if my son were called to duty or enlisted on his own, I would be behind him 100% (like 99.9% of parents) and pray for his safe return.

Bottom line: What would you suggest we do? Bury our heads in the sand and think we can make it on our own? That would not be possible. You know that saying, "You can never have too many friends."? Its the same with allies (discount France :) ). If we were to let the rest of the world go about its merry way, and mind only the business on our shores, we would eventually find ourselves on the wrong end of the stick and we would soon be defending our country from our own homes. (Actually that is already happening with terrorism.) The human attrocities alone commanded that we do something. WMD's or no WMD's, it was time we stopped this war monger and bully.

[440exnacsracer]

pappy, you do have very strong points, and i know you will look down on this, but i am only 17, unable to vote, but i do like to voice my opinions and at least be somewhat knowledgable about my country unlike 95% of people my age. the 50% terrorism increase is worldwide, not just here. and, honestly, if i didnt have plans to go to college and go into formula one racing, i would probably go in the military, being 6th in the nation in riflery and 7th in georgia in skeet shooting i know i have at least part of it down, and i did feel that something should be done.....something that we are capable of. had we gone in in one month, with all of our strength, we would have annihilated all of the taliban and iraqs forces, this dragging on is not necessary, but everyone has their opinions, and im not going to change yours, and even if you change mine, it wont show up on the ballots this year:rolleyes: . o well.:(