honda 450 vs yamaha 450? pro's and con's

[QCquad83]

ok lets hear it....i have a 250r...but i'm getting a 450 but i want to here everything about each other. now that i just broke my collar bone yesterday at a race i have time to sit down and way out the options....i am a die hard honda fan because any that knows anything about performance atv knows that the honda name has stood the test of time and that they are a living legend in the atv race world......but i also know that the yamaha 450 is a force to be dealt with....i want to know all of the things about each.........personaly i race a high level b class of motocross. i would like to know what are the good and bad things of each stock bike because i wont' have the money to fix everything right away......and also what aftermarket stuff is the best for each bike for my type of riding.......



i am also going to have my R for sale here shortly.........pm if interested.......

[MY450R]

all i can say is that stock vs stock ride red
wow this could take all day
1.my friend just got his and bent the rear brake rotor on a rock
no protection at all
2.my friend just got his and it caught on fire from hitting a tree
3.honda is MUCH MUCH more comfortable to ride
4.get what you want cause i could do this all day long
good luck choosing dont make a 7000 dollar mistake
honda has better financing anyway

[red2004 TRX450R]

U SAID
i am a die hard honda fan because any that knows anything about performance atv knows that the honda name has stood the test of time

OK

in the short run the yamaha looks better, but will end up costing u more RIDE RED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CdaleXtreme]

In my opinion Stock for Stock the Yamaha would be more for the agressive rider with an MX riding Flavor. the 450R is a little more user freindly, and a little more comfortable for longer rides and woods pounding. The rear shock could use some work on the 450R. Being in the B-class you will need to mod either Yam or HON to be competetive.

The Honda has a sad linkage system especially when you lower them down for MX. Consider right off the bat a rear linkage system either from Elka, GT thunder. or Walsh.

The Carb on the Honda is weak for motocross. You will need to do the FCR conversion. + a CAM to get it equal or close to a YFZ.

All of the above you will have to do OVER what a YAM comes with stock.

BUT

Hondas frames have proven to be stronger So far , a definite + for MX. Im sure you understand about frames breaking coming off an R.

No battery and e-start junk to deal with.

Hondas Proven Reliablilty. Ive seen many problems arise with the Yamis. like sub frame mounts breaking repeatedly! Spindles breaking, etc...

All around you will get a little more reliability with the Honda, and you cant win if you dont finish! so thats a +!

They take a little more money to get going but my choice is red.

Oh yeah if you race nationals HONDA PAYS CONTINGENCY!!!

[WhiteBros400ex]

HONDA:D :macho

[Scottie Mac]

QCquad,

First thing, you are on a Honda forum, on a 450R message board, what do you think most people are going to say is better/best?

Here is some info for you. Most people on here have not had an opportunity to ride both quads you are asking about. Also, you can only believe half of what you read on the internet, and the other half is highly speculative. :D

Anyway, I will try to help out the best I can. You mentioned you are planning on using this quad for MX. You CAN build either into a pretty impressive machine. Stock for stock, it is a no brainer, the YFZ is WAY better on the track. But, how often do you see stock quads on the track? You mentioned that money was an issue for you and you would be building this quad in stages. Again, it is much easier to build the YFZ for the track and in the long run, less expensive. With the YFZ, well, you add a slip on, K&N, do the free cam mod, nerfs, bars, and tires and you COULD go racing. I see YFZs like this all the time. You could do the same with a TRX, but you will have a little less power and the quad will not handle as good on the track. The TRX is a fine machine, but FOR MX, it has a few issues, mainly th erear linkage set up that are going to hold you back.

As for the money issue, you can expect to spend a little more money on the TRX in the long run. Some of the things you will eventually need for the TRX that you will not need on the YFZ are a rear linkage set up, carb, higher compression piston, rear shock, cam and CDI. Take a look at the Walsh rear linkage set up, it is 1300 bucks before you even get to the swingarm. All this adds up. If you have the money to do this, then by all means, get the Honda if you are a Honda guy. The YFZ isn't perfect by any means, either. Its seat is hard as a brick, you have to have a special charger to charge the battery or you run the risk of killing it, and you will eventually have to replace the swinger.

As for reliability, don't believe the hype. Go to douggust.com and read the review and explanation of what the YFZ is all about. Seeing that Gust is a Suzuki sponsored rider, I believe his opinion is as unbiased as you will probably find. I ride with a bunch of both and have never seen a YFZ break down. The only problem I have seen is a subframe bending. (I have seen tons of others bend, if you roll them, they bend) The frames are as strong as any quad ever made, ask Kory Eliis, he doesn't even gusset his. I haven't seen any problems on Hondas that belonged to anyone I know, but I did see the one at Birch Creek that split its cases at the kicker. Nothing is perfect.

On a Honda forum you are going to get a bunch of "Yamaha Sucks" replies, just like you would see a lot of "Honda's blow" replies on a Yamaha forum. Your best bet is to go to the track and try to find a way to test both. Set up for mx. Neither handles anything like stock when completely modded for the track.

Good luck, sorry for the book, just wanted to be as detailed as possible.

Scott

[trout]

gotta love Scottie Mac. always good info.

I think Scottie and Gabe should have a section on this forum called

"Scottie vs. Gabe" like Spy Vs Spy. HA HA

Trout:p

[dunebuggie66]

i have been riding a modded r all season in high level b class mx, and so far i am very satisfied. i have not had the problems with the rear linkage that you read above. i run denton long travel front end with elkas. and on the rear i have a RPM +1.25 400 ex swing arm with an elka dual rate and have been very sucessfull on it. the only power mods i have done is put a yoshi TRS full system on with a k&n, lid off, and a 175 main jet. 2.5 turns out with the air screw. i have yet to be beaten by a yami. in mx it is not always the quad that wins races, it's mostly the rider. i love my r and i won't be switching to anything else any time soon. over this winter i will be doing some motor mod.s and possibly a diff. carb. again i have been very satisfied with the performance of this quad.

[Scottie Mac]

Originally posted by dunebuggie66
i have been riding a modded r all season in high level b class mx, and so far i am very satisfied. i have not had the problems with the rear linkage that you read above. i run denton long travel front end with elkas. and on the rear i have a RPM +1.25 400 ex swing arm with an elka dual rate and have been very sucessfull on it. the only power mods i have done is put a yoshi TRS full system on with a k&n, lid off, and a 175 main jet. 2.5 turns out with the air screw. i have yet to be beaten by a yami. in mx it is not always the quad that wins races, it's mostly the rider. i love my r and i won't be switching to anything else any time soon. over this winter i will be doing some motor mod.s and possibly a diff. carb. again i have been very satisfied with the performance of this quad.

This is a perfect example of how, when modded, I don't really think either has that much of an advantage over the other. I do slightly disagree about the linkage, the ones I have ridden tend to be a little bouncy and pack up a little in the whoops, but that is a personal annoyance. As far as racing goes, I think it is more like 90% rider and 10% machine. I think Pappy said it best, he lined up both his 450R and YFZ and yelled "GO" and neither went anywhere without him on it. :D

Scott

PS

I like Gabe, he is like a "brotha froma anotha motha"
(that is what my friends in Jersey sound like)
At least with him I know I can have an intelligent debate over this, that and the other, as opposed to some folks on here who will simply resort to the "________ (insert type here) Sucks" responces.

[Crayfish]

Something else to consider is with the Honda you can get an HRC kit (cam, jets, air box lid, end cap etc) for 300 bucks or so from the factory. This means your bike is still eligible for the Honda warranty. If you can get your Yamaha dealership to do the cam mod for you then cool, but so far I have yet to find any takers. Yamaha msrp = 6899, Honda msrp + hrc kit = 6799. Maybe since you are planning on racing the warrenty does not matter to you but if you are looking at overall costs, having a bike with a 5 year warrenty might be something to consider.

I know most people get their bikes well below msrp, but just for discusion I had to use something.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Scottie Mac
I think Pappy said it best, he lined up both his 450R and YFZ and yelled "GO" and neither went anywhere without him on it. :D


damn he is one smart pup:p

[theyfctr]

i just rode both and a stock yfz would beat a honda no doubt in any race. That is why they give a power up kit, because they need it. The yamaha is fast stock but you must tear open the engine for the honda. The honda then MIGHT be faster than the yfz but not by much.

[ProConcept]

I hate everyones complaint about having to take apart the engine to put the HRC cam in. Who cares? Youd have to do the same thing on the yammie to do the cam mod. If you dont want more power then dont take your engine apart.

[Scottie Mac]

Its not like you have to be a rocket scientist to add/replace or change cam timing. Basically, if a "racer" can't do something as simple as that, maybe that "racer" shouldn't be on a next generation 4 stroke. Or even better, when they screw it up, they will blame the failure on the manufacturer or model type.

Oh well, I guess I just expect more out of my comrads.

Scott

[Woody_YFZ]

I don't think anyone's opinion can really give you which you would like best, but I own both and will give you my reasoning why I like the YFZ over the TRX. I ride abour 60% mx and 40% dunes and I prefer the YFZ in both instances.
MX-The YFZ has stiffer suspension that does not bottom out on larger jumps, also with more adjustment. I like the way it points and corners better and I like the smaller feel of it. I am 6'1", 155 lbs. I like that I can lean off the side of the bike and the seat lets me slide across it. I have put different bars on it and you'll need a roller relocator for it also. I think the stock tires are about as good as anything out there. I have used Kenda Klaws and am now running ITP Holeshot mxr's and I honestly like the stockers as well or better than either of them.
Dunes - The TRX reminds me a lot of my Raptor in the way it handles in the dunes. It doesn't seem to turn really well, whereas you point the yfz and it goes.

In general they are both excellent bikes with similar power, however my YFZ was a little quicker when they were both stock. The YFZ has a couple little things that you can do to mod it for free vs. the TRX, but over all the handling and suspension are the reason I prefer the YFZ. After all that however, I don't think you'd be disappointed with either. And yeah.....I think kick starting is for the birds.:D Good luck with your decision!!

[Toadz400]

Stock for stock...I have to agree that the YFZ seems more of an MX agressive quad.

Gearing is lower, center of gravity is lower, revs like a 2-stroke but still feels like a 4-stroke somehow. The seat isn't as comfortable, but when I raced MX...I wasn't sitting on my seat.

450R is a more comfortable ride, but to me it just doesn't seem like as much of an MX quad as the YFZ. It seems to sit taller, very tall first gear and the power seems to be all in mid-top end.

In my honest opinion, I believe if you are a hardcore MX racer...then the YFZ450 would be a better choice. If you like wide-open riding, then the 450R would definately be the best choice becase of it's comfortability and high-gearing (at least compared to the YFZ).

And some people say Yamaha is crap and how they always blow up and blah blah blah...Bottom line is, if you take care of your machine, it will take care of you.

And My450R, will you stop talking about that YFZ starting on fire...how old are you anyway? You never answer me on that one...

[ProConcept]

To me the 450R is the best all around quad. Its a comfortable enough quad that I can run wide open XC for 80 miles during a day and not feel so tired at the end of it. Its also race ready enough to take MXing whenever I want. Just like honda says "the 450R doesnt care where its going to dominate blah blah", it can be raced anywhere. Honda did there homework guys, they made the 450R alot more like 250R than you think they did. Just like the 250R the 450R can be raced in almost any racing environment/style. MX, XC, Dunes, trails, etc. The YFZ is more on the MX side of the spectrum, while the450R is somewhere in the middle, waiting for you to choose which side you want to modify for.

[quadrcr87]

Thats good then. Im not in the middle. almost all my riding is focused on mx and the races. The yfz is what i wanted and i got it. This thread started about racing in B class mx. If you think the yfz is all mx then that is what he needshttp://www.exriders.com/vbb/images/smilies/cool.gif

[ProConcept]

Originally posted by quadrcr87
Thats good then. Im not in the middle. almost all my riding is focused on mx and the races. The yfz is what i wanted and i got it. This thread started about racing in B class mx. If you think the yfz is all mx then that is what he needshttp://www.exriders.com/vbb/images/smilies/cool.gif

Yes, but since his 250R seems to be heavily modded, I would assume that his 450 would be to, and since both quads are pretty much the same when modded for MX the R would be a good choice also. I know I wouldn't buy a YFZ because it can be MXed stock. I would buy it or the R becasuse both are great platforms to build upon for a great MX quad.

But since he loves honda. I say get the R. ;)

[Barely legal]

Originally posted by MY450R
all i can say is that stock vs stock ride red
wow this could take all day
1.my friend just got his and bent the rear brake rotor on a rock
no protection at all
2.my friend just got his and it caught on fire from hitting a tree
3.honda is MUCH MUCH more comfortable to ride
4.get what you want cause i could do this all day long
good luck choosing dont make a 7000 dollar mistake
honda has better financing anyway

Your friends need to learn to ride. Hit a tree and somehow that's Yamahas fault? Hit a tree with a Honda and the gas might spill on the motor with the same affect.
.

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by Barely legal
Your friends need to learn to ride. Hit a tree and somehow that's Yamahas fault? Hit a tree with a Honda and the gas might spill on the motor with the same affect.
.

Exactly, I've seen so many times this kid talking about his friend ramming into a tree and gas spilling, and when gas gets hot enough (probably spilled on the engine or exhaust pipe) it catches on fire...and OF COURSE, that is definately Yamaha's fault!

[MY450R]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Toadz400
[B]Exactly, I've seen so many times this kid talking about his friend ramming into a tree and gas spilling, and when gas gets hot enough (probably spilled on the engine or exhaust pipe) it catches on fire...and OF COURSE, that is definately Yamaha's fault! [
/B][/QUOTE
ok ok no thats not yamahas fault but if you were to smash a tree the likely hood that it will catch fire is slim to nill
but somehow it happened it just happened on a yami thats all im saying] :cool:

[ct310]

maybe an lt80 or a 250 trailboss would be a wise(*****) choice since u only got 1 arm hehehehehehehehehehe zzzziip signed, "A- rider for a lap"

[MX#9]

I have a 450r not a YFZ and I'll probably never have a YFZ. I'm also not stupid enough to not see that Yamaha built a better quad for the strictly MX crowd. I've read every magazine shootout/test,they are not all paid off. I would enter a race on my 450r prepared to work a little harder against the equal rider on the YFZ. I say this with some reservation,as I don't believe there is such a thing as "equal" riders. That being said,racing mx is ALL about the rider. If you are a top level "B" rider,than at this point you are keenly aware that the brand of the machine has nothing to do with your results. My advice would be to do your best to try both out in any form of modification,this would let you know if there are quirks you can't tolerate from either quad. Next, I would ask myself if the dealer I was going to purchase from will be helpful or not. Some dealers are very,very good at helping racers and some have no idea what is going on. It boils down to this, pick the one that suits YOU best,because if your any good,you will be able to put the front. I know it and others on here know it, but they are few.

[creechfan]

7000 dollar mistake


yea right! my YFZ with the extended 3 year extended warrenty was way under that amount man! b4 the warrenty the price of the yami was under the price of the honda MSRP....he he he