Bush's Resume

[JWhite]

Education (highlights):

- With my daddy's help, I got into exclusive Andover, where I was a mediocre student.

- Was in the bottom 20 percent of students as a freshman at Yale, where I also joined the secret Skull and Bones society.

- Applied to the University of Texas Law School and was rejected.

Past work experience:

- Ran for congress and lost.

- Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, so the company went bankrupt. Sold all my stock just in the nick of time to a wealthy Saudi friend of my father.

Accomplishments While Governor of Texas (1995-2000):

- Relaxed pollution laws for power and oil companies (I "grandfathered" the dirtiest coal burning power plants, making them exempt from clean air laws, for example) and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union, in 1999. The same year, Houston had the "highest ozone level reading in the nation", and was second most ozone-polluted city in the country from 1997 through 1999.

- Slashed taxes, reduced state revenue to the point of bankruptcy and put the Texas government in debt for billions in borrowed money, the interest for which is now paid for by the Texas taxpayer.

- Set a record for the most executions by any Governor in American history and became famous for publicly mocking Faye Tucker, a Christian female death row inmate, for her clemency plea before she was executed.

- Appointed US President, on a questionable decision by a highly partisan Supreme Court, after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes.

Accomplishments While US President (2001-present):

- Attacked and invaded two countries so far, losing more US soldiers after I claimed "Mission Accomplished" than the total number who were killed during full combat operations in both wars combined.

- Spent the largest surplus in the history of the country and nearly bankrupted the treasury.

- Shattered records for the biggest annual deficit in history.

- Presided over all time economic record for most private bankruptcies filed during any Presidency, beating the previous record, which was set during the depression years.

- Set all-time record for biggest loss of value in the history of the stock market during any Presidency.

- Helped "push" through Congress and then signed into law the largest overtime pay cut in US history, despite the fact that 3 out of 4 Americans opposed it.

- First President in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

- First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any President in US history.

- After taking the entire month of August 2001 off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history, the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

- Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips of any President in US history.

- In my first three years in office over 3.3 million Americans lost their jobs.

- Presided over the all-time U.S. record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.

- Set the record for the fewest amount of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.

- Presided over perhaps the biggest energy crisis in US history and refused to intervene when ENRON corruption was revealed and many states faced bankruptcy.

- Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.

- Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans while posing on aircraft carriers in a flight suit and despite praising the troops at every opportunity.

- Inspired the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest a US decision to go to war (15 million people).

- My administration is the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history, surpassing the secrecy of the Nixon administration at its darkest moments.

- Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleeza Rice, had a Chevron oil tanker named after her).

- Presided over the worst fiscal crisis to hit all 50 states of the Union since World War II.

- Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud (ENRON, WorldCom, Global Crossing) of any market in any country in history.

- First President in US history to order an unprovoked attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.

- First President in US history to start a war against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

- Created the largest new government bureaucracy (Department of Homeland Security) in the history of the United States.

- Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any President in US history.

- First President in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.

- Along with my Attorney General, John Ashcroft, I have eroded the civil liberties of American citizens more than at any other time in US history.

- After the 9/11 attacks, I lobbied for and signed into law the "rush job" Patriot Act, which legalized "Big Brother-like" surveillance of US citizens for the first time in history.

- I disregard states rights when it suits me, but I always run for office on a platform that holds states rights above federal rights.

- I've imprisoned more sick people for growing and smoking medicinal Cannabis than any other president, in violation of states rights, of course, and against the wishes of the states and local voters.

- Withdrew from the World Court (International Court of Justice) and I refuse to recognize it unless it gives my administration, the US and global corporations special immunity.

- I have kept 660 prisoners of war in Guantanamo Bay for two years without charging any of them. I've cleverly classified them as "enemy combatants", thereby allowing me to circumvent the Geneva Convention when I feel like it.

- All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

- My personal friend and biggest lifetime campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

- Instead of springing into action as Commander in Chief after I learned that the US was under attack on 9/11, I read a book called 'The Pet Goat' to schoolchildren for a while so I wouldn't alarm them.

- First US President to establish a secret shadow government, and I did this without the knowledge or participation of the opposition parties in congress.

- Squandered world sympathy for the US after 9/11, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

- With a policy of 'disengagement' and open public support for alleged war criminal, Ariel Sharon, allowed and condoned the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.

- First US President in history to have a majority of the people of Europe view the US as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.

- First US President in history to have the people of South Korea feel more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.

- Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'. Additionally, I have failed to bring to justice anyone else responsible for the 9/11 attacks.

- Failed to capture the anthrax suspect(s) who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capital building.

- After intense pressure from families of 9/11 victims and others, I finally consented to a public 9/11 investigation over a year after the attacks. But my first nominee to head the Commission, Henry Kissinger, resigned because of his secret ties to Middle Eastern business interests.

- In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.

- Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every economic category into a sharply downward trend.

- Did nothing about the failing US power grid during the first two years of my presidency, despite repeated warnings, and later presided over the largest total power blackout in US history that incapacitated several states and part of Canada.

- In order to prevent financing abortions in China, I cut off all $34 million of aid to the U.N. Population Fund, which was also used to provide medical care to teenagers with defective pregnancies.

- I have done a lot to weaken environment regulations in America. My administration has: Rolled back clean air standards; broken a promise to address global warming; slowed the clean up of toxic waste dumps while making taxpayers foot the bill; changed regulations to allow more arsenic in tap water; advocated a forest policy that will vastly increase timber cutting; cut back protections for endangered species; fought for oil drilling in the pristine Arctic National Wildlife Refuge; allowed America's dirtiest power plants to keep polluting; opposed renewable energy and reversed course on energy efficiency; and given key positions in the White House to former energy executives and lobbyists.

Records and References:

- At least one conviction for drunk driving

- I went AWOL and deserted the military during, I was not punished.

- All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed and unavailable for public view.

For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker (they can be reached at their offices of the secretive Carlyle Group, which has ties to the family of Osama Bin Laden).

[batgeek]

please post a disclaimer with this.

*taken from a biased, VERY liberal satire site*

Bush AND Kerry suck. i don't care for either of them.

[Tantal]

:yawn:

[Tantal]

Originally posted by batgeek
please post a disclaimer with this.

*taken from a biased, VERY liberal satire site*

Bush AND Kerry suck. i don't care for either of them.

What batgeek said!

[Atreyu]

Bush is a retard and Kerry is a p#ssy. (IMO)

[Insider]

i'd ask you to post Kerry's resume, but you would have to get both of them, one for each side depending on who wants to see it
:o

[Guy400]

Originally posted by Insider
i'd ask you to post Kerry's resume, but you would have to get both of them, one for each side depending on who wants to see it
:o That about sums it up right there. Bush may not be all things to all people but at least you know where he stands.

[lol]

Originally posted by Atreyu
Bush is a retard and Kerry is a p#ssy. (IMO)

yuuuup!

[Insider]

just compare bush's tax returns vs. kerry's tax returns and then take a look at what they own:o the clear crook may evade prosocution, but not the IRS. it pays to have friends in high places:mad:


and whats the deal with kerry touching all over edwards...get a room homo's

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by JWhite

-- Set all-time record for biggest loss of value in the history of the stock market during any Presidency.

- In my first three years in office over 3.3 million Americans lost their jobs.

- Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud (ENRON, WorldCom, Global Crossing) of any market in any country in history.

- Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every economic category into a sharply downward trend.

- After taking the entire month of August 2001 off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history, the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

- Created the largest new government bureaucracy (Department of Homeland Security) in the history of the United States.


This is all the most idiotic BS I have ever seen. News flash for all you "Bush-haters". The President does not control the stock market. If you honestly believe that Bush is responsible for the economic crash, you are a moron. I repeat, MORON.

In regards to 9/11, security did not fail. The weapons the terrorists used were boxcutters, which was perfectly legal to take onboard an airplane at that time.

As for the last one, WE (the American people) demanded a government agency for homeland security. Are you telling me that Bush should not have listened to the American public?

[DEAL]

I don't even think I'm aloud to post my opinion on this LOL.

[AtvMxRider]

Originally posted by Guy400
That about sums it up right there. Bush may not be all things to all people but at least you know where he stands.


Exactly, and where do you think we would be if Gore had became president:huh ? Everybody bashes Bush over 9/11 but most of you forget That pu$$y Clinton was in office for 8 years and did "NOTHING". Bush is president for a few months and suddenly it's all his fault:huh . Most of the Bush bashers have no clue of what they are talking about:rolleyes: .

[MOFO]

Originally posted by AtvMxRider
Most of the Bush bashers have no clue of what they are talking about:rolleyes: .


This about sums it up!

[polabareus]

I'm not a big political activist but most of the people I hang out with know I'm a Bush supporter. Anyway, the other night at a party some girl I don't even know comes up to me with a disgusted look on her face. I was like, "Hey there surgar", but that didn't phase her. She immediatly started spewing several different things about how evil bush is. I just waited for her to hang herself which took about 2 seconds. She told me how Bush was dishonarably discharged from the navy. Whoa!, Navy? Dishonarable? He wasn't even in the Navy and he wasn't dishonarably discharged. So I asked her to tell me where she heard that. She couldn't quite recollect. Than she told me how great Michael Moore is and how he speaks the truth. I really have no point except for this: There's people (on both sides ofcourse) who don't have the slightest clue as to what there talking about. They will believe in the craziest things, regardless of whether they hold any truth. And when it comes time to vote these crazy people are going to be given a little piece of power to decide who leads the country. Scary, isn't it?

P. S. Michael Moore's new "documentary" has seriously spun material and anyone who basis their voting decision on any info used in it is making a joke out of our democracy.

[400exdad]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by AtvMxRider
Most of the Bush bashers have no clue of what they are talking about .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Originally posted by MOFO
This about sums it up!

That MOFO is right! :D

I was once twisted and confused too. :( Thats why I voted for Clinton... but today, I have a family and try to have values and pass them along to my kids. I listen to the real news and see that the democrats really want a communistic society with the people living off the t*t of the government.

Its kind of ironic don't you think? When Bush thinks of herding cattle, he thinks of the 4 legged creature (called cows) that he will raise and one day slaughter for food and probably sell. When Kerry thinks of herding cattle, he thinks of a 2 legged creature (called people) who he will raise and one day provide food for since there will be no jobs or economy to support them.

[Sandsjbyz22]

That pu$$y Clinton was in office for 8 years and did "NOTHING".

At least he wasnt letting most of our manufacturing jobs go overseas. Every Damn town I go through in Ohio has some major company packing up and moving overseas. My friends Dad worked for a company for thirty years and they decide to pack it up because its cheaper to make stuff in china. Guess what kind of retirement he got jack sh*t. I don't care what Clinton got from some intern at least he gave a damn about the people who worked in our country. I have friends going over to that hell whole called the middle east. And Im not willing to see something happen to them while these *******s can get rich off of kids my age dying.

Now my brother has to uproot his family here in Ohio and move to Florida. Hes going from living 5 mins from me to a day. The only good that comes from this is a place to ride on my winter break. I guess its really not that bad then:devil:

[mmills023]

Originally posted by Sandsjbyz22
At least he wasnt letting most of our manufacturing jobs go overseas. Every Damn town I go through in Ohio has some major company packing up and moving overseas. My friends Dad worked for a company for thirty years and they decide to pack it up because its cheaper to make stuff in china. Guess what kind of retirement he got jack sh*t. I don't care what Clinton got from some intern at least he gave a damn about the people who worked in our country. I have friends going over to that hell whole called the middle east. And Im not willing to see something happen to them while these *******s can get rich off of kids my age dying.

Now my brother has to uproot his family here in Ohio and move to Florida. Hes going from living 5 mins from me to a day. The only good that comes from this is a place to ride on my winter break. I guess its really not that bad then:devil:

Ok i just cant resist the temptation to respond to this one.

If anyone has ever been to ANY other country then they would know that the work ethic and dedication to "company" is SOOOOOO much stronger everywhere else besides the good ole USA. Additionally the simple fact that not only do other countrys have more dedication to thier jobs they actually WANT and APPRECIATE thier jobs, which translates to better work ethic, which mean more productivity out of each worker. Not to mention that they will be more than happy to work for an actuall "Fair" wage and not go crying to thier union for a raise everytime thier neighboor brings home a shiny new truck or plasma TV that they feel the need to keep up with. American is the best place to be on earth IMO, however what makes it the best place on earth also makes it one of the most complicated, over taxed, over lawed (ok not a word but point made) places as well. I love America, and because of that i respect the fact that as a business owner in this nation you are constantly pushed to make your products better and cheaper, thereby lowering your profit margin. So what do you do when those conditions happen? Go to your workforce and explain that you value all thier hard work and effort but we need to all take a pay cut this year?..Yeah just try that on for size....Remember what makes America great is exctally what other "nations" HATE about us.

Oh and to respond to the resume...HA HA HA...i really think it was meant as a joke...casue if not i seriously feel sorry for those who believe everything you read or see on tv without doing any sort of do dilligent research on your own. And as a side note, when did the french and Europe nations not HATE america??.....Also one last thing. Business 101, ANY ANY ANY change made to an org (including the US gov.) takes anywhere for 12 to 18 months to feel and see the effect. The stuff that took place within the first 18 months of this presidency............all started LONG before Bush every took office!!!!!


Just my 2 cents.

[Fender Bender]

Originally posted by AtvMxRider
Exactly, and where do you think we would be if Gore had became president:huh ? Everybody bashes Bush over 9/11 but most of you forget That pu$$y Clinton was in office for 8 years and did "NOTHING". Bush is president for a few months and suddenly it's all his fault:huh . Most of the Bush bashers have no clue of what they are talking about:rolleyes: .

DAMN STRAIGHT.

Ok bush haters, whats your next pathetic as$ excuse...

[Cole Trane]

I agree with batgeek on this one. I think both Bush and Kerry suck. PERIOD. Kerry is worse than Gore ever was.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by 400exdad


Its kind of ironic don't you think? When Bush thinks of herding cattle, he thinks of the 4 legged creature (called cows) that he will raise and one day slaughter for food and probably sell. When Kerry thinks of herding cattle, he thinks of a 2 legged creature (called people) who he will raise and one day provide food for since there will be no jobs or economy to support them.


Very good point. I'll have to remember this analogy because its true!

[MOFO]

Originally posted by 400exrider2002
I agree with batgeek on this one. I think both Bush and Kerry suck. PERIOD. Kerry is worse than Gore ever was.


why does Bush "suck" (to use your own words). Honestly, what are you blaming him for?

[Cole Trane]

Well, I just think pretty much all politicians suck. I don't see how they can do it. I guess I shouldn't use the word suck. Sorry. I just don't like em'. JMO. I'm in the military, and if Kerry gets elected, we (as in the military) are screwed. That's why I would rather have Bush in the Whitehouse for now. But, politics have to screw people. That's just how it works. Just glad I don't have to do it.

[popo]

It could be worse...... A woman for pres. :eek2:

[PHAT400]

Originally posted by popo
It could be worse...... A woman for pres. :eek2:

:eek2: OMG.... Let me get you a can opener there POPO for that can of worm's you want opened.

Let's not upset the ladies on this site, I'm really looking forward to shooting a calander... :devil:

[honda350r]

You Bush guys are truely lost ! Someone post a few facts and every Bush lover turns their head the other way !

Bush is destroying the United States!!!

[tore up]

Originally posted by mmills023
Ok i just cant resist the temptation to respond to this one.

If anyone has ever been to ANY other country then they would know that the work ethic and dedication to "company" is SOOOOOO much stronger everywhere else besides the good ole USA. Additionally the simple fact that not only do other countrys have more dedication to thier jobs they actually WANT and APPRECIATE thier jobs, which translates to better work ethic, which mean more productivity out of each worker. Not to mention that they will be more than happy to work for an actuall "Fair" wage and not go crying to thier union for a raise everytime thier neighboor brings home a shiny new truck or plasma TV that they feel the need to keep up with. American is the best place to be on earth IMO, however what makes it the best place on earth also makes it one of the most complicated, over taxed, over lawed (ok not a word but point made) places as well. I love America, and because of that i respect the fact that as a business owner in this nation you are constantly pushed to make your products better and cheaper, thereby lowering your profit margin. So what do you do when those conditions happen? Go to your workforce and explain that you value all thier hard work and effort but we need to all take a pay cut this year?..Yeah just try that on for size....Remember what makes America great is exctally what other "nations" HATE about us.

Oh and to respond to the resume...HA HA HA...i really think it was meant as a joke...casue if not i seriously feel sorry for those who believe everything you read or see on tv without doing any sort of do dilligent research on your own. And as a side note, when did the french and Europe nations not HATE america??.....Also one last thing. Business 101, ANY ANY ANY change made to an org (including the US gov.) takes anywhere for 12 to 18 months to feel and see the effect. The stuff that took place within the first 18 months of this presidency............all started LONG before Bush every took office!!!!!


Just my 2 cents.



I just love it when someone who preaches history does not know it. The unions were created by THE WORKING MAN/WOMAN for THE WORKING MAN/WOMAN. Everytime you go on to a prevailing wage job and get that extra bit of despertly needed cash on your HARD EARNED PAYCHECK, why dont stop and thank the f'in UNION for setting that scale!!! You tell me why that there is over 280 millon people in this country and only 12% of the population makes over 200,000 a year on there annual income!! You want to know why the UNIONS support the democartic parties its because they are for the working class. The union people vote there fellow WORKERS into the office positions so that they will get that hard earned paycheck that everyone deserves. I vote for the man/woman that will FIGHT for the WORKERS RIGHT!!!! Thats how everyone of you should vote!! I dont give a $^%& if you are Dem. or Rep. I vote for the man thats going to help ME and MY FAMILY get the goal that every person on the face of this earth wants THE AMERICAN DREAM!!!!! Thats just my opioion. (sorry for the spelling)

[Pappy]

actually, unions have caused more damage to companies in the US then forign competition. thats not a popular opinion but its well documented if you get over the USA is the best syndrome. and yes, ive seen unions first hand work themselves right out of a job.

secondly,

no president we have ever had in modern times recieved 100% of the votes in this country. it just amazes me that the last 12 years has brought about a theology that you can pursuade people to vote for your candidate by bashing and twist facts. it makes the person doing the arguing look petty and the candidate look like a loser.

[Samson]

Originally posted by honda350r
You Bush guys are truely lost ! Someone post a few facts and every Bush lover turns their head the other way !

Bush is destroying the United States!!!


Because we were so much better off with a president sniffing cigars and staining dresses in the oval office? :huh

So he supported Cuba and local cleaners. What did he do for anybody else?


Bush has been a saint compared to Slick Willy!


BTW, who here has a degree from a place like Yale or Harvard? I can't even imagine the competition. Anybody that's gone to college should be familiar with the bell curve. This is with the world's elite.

And, I would go as far as to say at least 2/3's of the oil companies have closed shop and left West Texas. Not because they can't find oil, but because they can't make a living competing with imports. We need tariffs to stabilize oil prices.

At the end of 2002 Texas had 22.4 billion in reserves. Deficit you say? :huh


What facts? I couldn't get past the first couple of paragraphs? Half truths are whole lies imo.

[tore up]

Originally posted by Pappy
actually, unions have caused more damage to companies in the US then forign competition. thats not a popular opinion but its well documented if you get over the USA is the best syndrome. and yes, ive seen unions first hand work themselves right out of a job.

secondly,

no president we have ever had in modern times recieved 100% of the votes in this country. it just amazes me that the last 12 years has brought about a theology that you can pursuade people to vote for your candidate by bashing and twist facts. it makes the person doing the arguing look petty and the candidate look like a loser.


I enjoy debating with you Pappy, you always bring a well though different perspective to interesting topics. A true union member supports his fellow worker- Union or not. They also buy union made products and shop at stores that employ union workers. Most of all we should buy products that are made right here in America. I too have seen Union contractors work them selves right out of a job, they are under bid buy non-union contractors that pay there empolyees 20-60% less for the same job that the Union worker does. Most non-union contractors do not provide there empolyees with a benifits package, something that nowadays you cant live with out.

I still stand on the thought, that you vote for the person that will fight for the worker not the big business. Dem. or Rep. doesnt matter.:)

[Scottie Mac]

Ok, my thoughts. It is ignorant to be "left wing" or "right wing" Both have fundamentals that are good for our country and people.

Bush is probably the dumbest president this country has EVER had. The man can't string together 2 sentences without looking as if he is confused.

Kerry is a left wing democrat who has no backbone and would be the front man, very similar to Clinton, for a woman President.

But, the dumbest thing of all, is expecting to convince anyone that their personal choice is wrong. One of the wonderfull things about this country is that WE HAVE THE CHOICE! I know who I will vote for, and I will keep it to myself. It doesn't concern anyone else. I suggest some of you others take this advice to heart. Arguing over politics is like arguing over religion. Each person is entitiled to his/her opinion. ANd thank GOD for that.

Scott


One more thing, about Bill Clinton. I don't care what the man did behind closed doors, he is probably not the only one who ever did such a thing - see Kennedy. BUT, the President of the United States is more than a leader of our country. He is a figure head, an example to the world of what we are as a society. For our figurehead to be an open, multi time adulturer, is a slap in the face to our country. Few things in our life are a sacred as marriage. And he, very publically, made a mockery of that. Is that REALLY the type of person we need making important decisions about OUR LIVES? Just my opinion.

[cody anderson]

At least Bush dosen't take any $hit from anybody... He dosen't let anybody push us around. He goes out there and beats their ***** in! Are we not American anymore? WTF is this crap that's being posted?

[Samson]

Originally posted by Scottie Mac
Bush is probably the dumbest president this country has EVER had. The man can't string together 2 sentences without looking as if he is confused.


Being articulate has nothing to do with intelligence. Not even going to touch the "looking" part.

Know too many knuckleheads that were fluent in BS. Known too many wise men who hardly spoke at all.

[wilkin250r]

When unions were first created, there was a need for them. Working conditions were unsafe, and the working class was exploited by employers. Something needed to be done.

However, like common human nature, when unions got a taste of power, they wanted more. Safe working conditions weren't enough, competitive pay wasn't enough. They wanted more. Manufacturing plants were shut down and businesses closed over labor disputes. In moderation, unions were a good thing, but once they get greedy, they are ultimately self-defeating.

Personally, I say the problems of the "working man" are his own fault. He made choices early in life, and now he has to live with them. I've busted my *****, and sacrificed a great deal to get my education and get ahead in life. But the working man wants to argue his way ahead in life through a union rather than work for it himself.

[Sandsjbyz22]

Additionally the simple fact that not only do other countrys have more dedication to thier jobs they actually WANT and APPRECIATE thier jobs, which translates to better work ethic, which mean more productivity out of each worker.

Well I'll make sure I pass that on to my brother and my friends Dad who lost almost everything so someone else can appreciate their jobs.

And yes I may be 19 but I have been to other countries. Canada for one has very cheap health care and free college. Kerry may not be the answer but something has to change before its impossible for working people to afford health care or put a mortgage on their house to send their kids to school.

[TRX45OR]

BUSH GETS MY VOTE

[Ryan]

Originally posted by MOFO
This about sums it up!

[Pappy]

lol....ill just run for president:devil:

[zephead400ex]

Originally posted by Scottie Mac
Ok, my thoughts. It is ignorant to be "left wing" or "right wing" Both have fundamentals that are good for our country and people.

Bush is probably the dumbest president this country has EVER had. The man can't string together 2 sentences without looking as if he is confused.

Kerry is a left wing democrat who has no backbone and would be the front man, very similar to Clinton, for a woman President.

But, the dumbest thing of all, is expecting to convince anyone that their personal choice is wrong. One of the wonderfull things about this country is that WE HAVE THE CHOICE! I know who I will vote for, and I will keep it to myself. It doesn't concern anyone else. I suggest some of you others take this advice to heart. Arguing over politics is like arguing over religion. Each person is entitiled to his/her opinion. ANd thank GOD for that.

Scott


One more thing, about Bill Clinton. I don't care what the man did behind closed doors, he is probably not the only one who ever did such a thing - see Kennedy. BUT, the President of the United States is more than a leader of our country. He is a figure head, an example to the world of what we are as a society. For our figurehead to be an open, multi time adulturer, is a slap in the face to our country. Few things in our life are a sacred as marriage. And he, very publically, made a mockery of that. Is that REALLY the type of person we need making important decisions about OUR LIVES? Just my opinion.

Ok, from everything you posted previous to signing your name, I would have figured you HATED Bush, saying he is the "dumbest president this country has EVER had." Well, I don't know how you would call him dumb:eek2: Just because you don't see eye to eye with him? Doesn't make sense to me.

You then go on to say that the President is the figure head of our country. This is absolutely correct. Now, how do YOU want OUR country portrayed to the rest of the world? A country that is going to sit back and debate whether or not killing 3000+ innocent people is justified to starting a war? Or a country that is going to retaliate and retaliate with a quickness to a tragedy such as 9/11?

Now, you mention "sacred marriage." Now you are making me think you support Bush and not Kerry. Kerry is for gay marriage. Bush wants to keep marriage a sacred joining of a man and woman. So who are you going vote for? Nadar?

My $.02
$.24 in Canada:)

[WhiteBros400ex]

Originally posted by Atreyu
Bush is a retard and Kerry is a p#ssy. (IMO)

;)

[tore up]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
When unions were first created, there was a need for them. Working conditions were unsafe, and the working class was exploited by employers. Something needed to be done.

However, like common human nature, when unions got a taste of power, they wanted more. Safe working conditions weren't enough, competitive pay wasn't enough. They wanted more. Manufacturing plants were shut down and businesses closed over labor disputes. In moderation, unions were a good thing, but once they get greedy, they are ultimately self-defeating.

Personally, I say the problems of the "working man" are his own fault. He made choices early in life, and now he has to live with them. I've busted my *****, and sacrificed a great deal to get my education and get ahead in life. But the working man wants to argue his way ahead in life through a union rather than work for it himself.



A union is a group of workers that make there wages through Collective Bargining, between the Contractor and the Work Force. There is give and take on both sides. I too busted my ***** to get to where I'm at in life. I dont have a fancey education from a college but I do have a trade that I can go anywhere in the world and get a good paying job. Thats just one thing that the union has provided me. Not to many can say that.:(

[tore up]

Originally posted by Pappy
lol....ill just run for president:devil:


You got my vote!!



What this country needs is a president thats not a politician!!!!!

Pappy for President!!!!!:D

[Mxjunkie]

lol pappy as a president would be interesting, he'd deff get my vote though:macho

[Pappy]

Originally posted by tore up
A union is a group of workers that make there wages through Collective Bargining, between the Contractor and the Work Force. There is give and take on both sides.

ive seen the give and take, workers taking and if they dont get they walk, leaving the comapny to hire scab workers who by thier own right just want paying employment. if my employee's tried that they would be replaced. if they want they can start thier own company and get to where im at in life;)

i do agree unions serve a purpose so dont think im totally against them. i just feel that over the years the major unions in this country have shot themselves in the foot:p manufacturing jobs are going oversea's...why? because the type of worker needed to work in that type of job wont do squat 99% of the time. after all, its the american idea that we are above meanial labor and DESERVE more:confused: this country wouldnt function if the mexicans and other foriegn labor didnt do the jobs most americans refuse to do. the majorityof black community has decided its better to sit on welfare then work these jobs (right beside them sits the white people who didnt care enough about thier future) so if a ditch digger has to be from mexico then so be it. if they would boot the people off welfare that shouldnt be on it we might see alot of the illegal's go home.

sorry...rant off:blah:

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by tore up
A union is a group of workers that make there wages through Collective Bargining, between the Contractor and the Work Force. There is give and take on both sides. I too busted my ***** to get to where I'm at in life. I dont have a fancey education from a college but I do have a trade that I can go anywhere in the world and get a good paying job. Thats just one thing that the union has provided me. Not to many can say that.:(

If one section of the population gets a significant pay increase (union members) then employers must increase their wages for non-union members to remain competative. As such, unions are directly responsible for wage increases in the past, both for union and non-union members.

However, as a direct result of higher labor costs, many companies take their business and manufacturing overseas. So rather than thanking Bush for lost jobs, maybe we should thank unions?

[spincr4hire]

Originally posted by batgeek
Bush AND Kerry suck. i don't care for either of them.

Is Ross Perot running again? I'll waste my vote on him (for the 3rd time):o

[tore up]

Originally posted by Pappy
ive seen the give and take, workers taking and if they dont get they walk, leaving the comapny to hire scab workers who by thier own right just want paying employment. if my employee's tried that they would be replaced. if they want they can start thier own company and get to where im at in life;)

i do agree unions serve a purpose so dont think im totally against them. i just feel that over the years the major unions in this country have shot themselves in the foot:p manufacturing jobs are going oversea's...why? because the type of worker needed to work in that type of job wont do squat 99% of the time. after all, its the american idea that we are above meanial labor and DESERVE more:confused: this country wouldnt function if the mexicans and other foriegn labor didnt do the jobs most americans refuse to do. the majorityof black community has decided its better to sit on welfare then work these jobs (right beside them sits the white people who didnt care enough about thier future) so if a ditch digger has to be from mexico then so be it. if they would boot the people off welfare that shouldnt be on it we might see alot of the illegal's go home.

sorry...rant off:blah:


I totally agree, most of your manual labor in this country people just dont want to do. Its easier to collect a free paycheck then go out and dig ditches. I been there right beside the Mexicans out there in the field picking tomatoes, picking cotton etc. I did it so that I could go to college, worked 12-14hrs a day 7 days a week and went to night school. Eventually I had to give up one, and college dont feed me. ( but thats a story for a different time ) Most small business cant support the union wage much like yourself ( unless you got one hell of a business ), so if your employees walk you would have no choice but to hire someone to take there position. Here is one example of Union workers walking off the job- the new San Diego Ball Park "Petco Park", the portable toilets that were on that jobsite had not been dumped in over 2 weeks, there were over 800 workers on that job and 1 pt for every 45 workers. Workers were going home and to other business on there lunch breaks just to use the restroom. The Unions on that job walked. It shut the job down for over a week due to unsanitary conditions, the health inspector for San Diego made the General contractor remove over a 100yds of contaminated soil so it was safe for the Union AND NONUNION workers to return. The generals excuse: The man encharge of the PT's was on vaction. I know first hand about this I was on site with the sheetmetal subcontractor. If it wasnt for the envolvement of the Union Workers the problem would have continued, the nonunion workers would have put up with thoughs conditions in fear of loosing there jobs. It was the most sickening thing I have ever seen!!!! Union workers dont walk unless they have a good reason!!!!

[wilkin250r]

The guy in charge of the PT was on vacation, and everybody else was Union. It's not their job to empty the pot. :D

[Pappy]

Originally posted by tore up
If it wasnt for the envolvement of the Union Workers the problem would have continued, the nonunion workers would have put up with thoughs conditions in fear of loosing there jobs. It was the most sickening thing I have ever seen!!!! Union workers dont walk unless they have a good reason!!!!

it seems that common sense and do the right thing dont apply to alot of people. but this is exactly the reason unions have failed, and will continue to fail. moving blame wont fix the problem:p moving upwind maybe:devil:


im refering to unions walking due to a wage increase etc.

hell i know union workers that are on the factory floors of my suppliers that make more annually then i do. i dont hold it against them, but when my products prices continue to rise due to the unions protesting for more and more (salary and benefits) and my competitors (forien supplied) are substainially under my prices i have to do something. and if that means i move my buying to foriegn suppliers the union has in retrospect hurt themselves.

it all comes around i assure you;)

I didn't read all of this I just saw somthing about people under you in the industry making more money than someone. I am an estimater and project manager for a Union Construction company. the guys in the field that are two tear under me make roughly 2twice the money an hour than I make. With them having to have no education to do what they do, they better be good at their job and be willing to work their but off. If not they go back to the hall and someone replaces them. The problem is the people that replace them are usually not as good or you would have already had them working for you!

[tore up]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
If one section of the population gets a significant pay increase (union members) then employers must increase their wages for non-union members to remain competative. As such, unions are directly responsible for wage increases in the past, both for union and non-union members.

However, as a direct result of higher labor costs, many companies take their business and manufacturing overseas. So rather than thanking Bush for lost jobs, maybe we should thank unions?


Maybe you dont understand. Its the people, the workers, the everyday joes that make up a Union, the work force wanting a better life. An example: a nonunion person makes 20.00 an hour and now he has to provide his own health care and his own retirement package, etc it all comes out of that 20.00 an hour. A union employee makes that plus that package, whats wrong with that? There's something wrong when Health Care rises on average of 12% a year and the wage of the American worker rises 1.5% a year. ( thats from the Almonac ) Think about this theroy, If everyone ( the blue collar worker ) were united as a collective, to bargin for our wage and benefit, we would not be loosing our jobs, our way of life. We the people would have the power and say not the 12% of the population of USA.

[Pappy]

ok the term "collective" has me scared:p as long as you dont worship stalin your ok:devil:

[FTR250Rnif]

lmao:D

[tore up]

Originally posted by Pappy
it seems that common sense and do the right thing dont apply to alot of people. but this is exactly the reason unions have failed, and will continue to fail. moving blame wont fix the problem:p moving upwind maybe:devil:


im refering to unions walking due to a wage increase etc.

hell i know union workers that are on the factory floors of my suppliers that make more annually then i do. i dont hold it against them, but when my products prices continue to rise due to the unions protesting for more and more (salary and benefits) and my competitors (forien supplied) are substainially under my prices i have to do something. and if that means i move my buying to foriegn suppliers the union has in retrospect hurt themselves.

it all comes around i assure you;)


Its not the responsiablity of the worker to provide a clean and sanitary toilet, If it were I would bring mine from home!!!! We've all used the pt before they stink!!! The blame falls on the general contractor for not providing the enviroment that his contact binds him too, The San Diego Health Inspector would agree.

[Pappy]

so i geuss the moral of that story is "union or not , the workers on that job were full of chit":devil: :blah:

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by tore up
Maybe you dont understand. Its the people, the workers, the everyday joes that make up a Union, the work force wanting a better life. An example: a nonunion person makes 20.00 an hour and now he has to provide his own health care and his own retirement package, etc it all comes out of that 20.00 an hour. A union employee makes that plus that package, whats wrong with that?

If the average is $20/hour, there is nothing wrong with collectively bargaining for $20/hour and healthcare benifits. The problem comes from collectively bargaining for $30.00/hour, plus healthcare, vision, dental, and retirement, and increased vacation time.

Let's face it, union members make more money than non-union members, and THAT is what I have a problem with. Arguing your way into better pay rather than WORKING your way into better pay.

[tore up]

Originally posted by GNCCer
I didn't read all of this I just saw somthing about people under you in the industry making more money than someone. I am an estimater and project manager for a Union Construction company. the guys in the field that are two tear under me make roughly 2twice the money an hour than I make. With them having to have no education to do what they do, they better be good at their job and be willing to work their but off. If not they go back to the hall and someone replaces them. The problem is the people that replace them are usually not as good or you would have already had them working for you!


I dont know what contractor you work for, but I am a Detailer for the 4 largest mechanical contactor in the nation, and I know for a fact that our project mangers are making well over 120,000.00 a year plus a bens. pkge and a company car. O and an exspence account. Every Union trains there workers to be a skilled craftsman, and most training that the apprentices go through is in conjunction with the state and at the end of there 4-5 year training they recieve a AA degree.

[tore up]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
If the average is $20/hour, there is nothing wrong with collectively bargaining for $20/hour and healthcare benifits. The problem comes from collectively bargaining for $30.00/hour, plus healthcare, vision, dental, and retirement, and increased vacation time.

Let's face it, union members make more money than non-union members, and THAT is what I have a problem with. Arguing your way into better pay rather than WORKING your way into better pay.

I work my ***** off for every dime I make. If the non-union guys and gals dont like it, join the union and they will make the same F'in wage I make, duh.:huh

O and healthcare usally includes vision, and dental. and as a side note I dont get any vaction time. ( except for national holidays- but there not payed!!!:( )

[wilkin250r]

Yeah, and every ditch digger works his fingers to the bone for minimum wage. But why is he making minimum wage? Because he made a choice early in life NOT to go to college and get a degree. He would rather work and have money right out of high school instead of sacrificing a few more years and go to college. He took the easy road, and now he is paying for it with his back. Same holds true for much of the "working class". They choose NOT to go to college, but they still want higher pay. So they try to argue their way into better pay rather than work for it.

[tore up]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Yeah, and every ditch digger works his fingers to the bone for minimum wage. But why is he making minimum wage? Because he made a choice early in life NOT to go to college and get a degree. He would rather work and have money right out of high school instead of sacrificing a few more years and go to college. He took the easy road, and now he is paying for it with his back. Same holds true for much of the "working class". They choose NOT to go to college, but they still want higher pay. So they try to argue their way into better pay rather than work for it.


I went to college to become a Vet. but I just could not afford it, maybe someday I will be able to finish my degree but right now I gotta put food on the table. I work with alot of guys that have a " college degree " I out rank them, make more money than they do, and we are union brothers. I work hard and make my own way in this world. In fact 7out of the top ten riches people in the world did not graduate from college. Bill Gates for example.:rolleyes: I actually make alot more than what the Union wage for my position is, why? Because the contractor that I work for knows that he cannot find someone very easily that can replace me and if he does the next contractor is going to pay me the same.

[Samson]

Originally posted by tore up
Its not the responsiablity of the worker to provide a clean and sanitary toilet, If it were I would bring mine from home!!!! We've all used the pt before they stink!!! The blame falls on the general contractor for not providing the enviroment that his contact binds him too, The San Diego Health Inspector would agree.



Point is, you ain't gonna have a pot to piss in if an employer goes belly up because he can't be competative.

Health benefits and high wages for everyone sounds great but I question if it'll ever work until we regulate the prices of competing imported goods? Because frankly, they aren't playing by the same rules. Don't think US consumers will go for it though.

[tore up]

Originally posted by Samson


Health benefits and high wages for everyone sounds great but I question if it'll ever work until we regulate the prices of competing imported goods? Because frankly, they aren't playing by the same rules. Don't think US consumers will go for it though.

no arguement there!:)

[tore up]

Originally posted by Bretmd94
I thought the list was funny. :blah:

What i hate, is people that are so one sided that they refuse to believe that the person they voted for did anything wrong. They will vote republican, or demacratic no matter what.

For some reason, every Republican president is a redneck, and every Demacrat is a pansy, no matter what.

Personally i think the two sided system is retarded. It causes everyone to be completely close minded on their decisions. I belive Religion and Church's have large blame for this two sided system also.

Oh yeah and to the person that said the president has no connection to the economy..... You are stupid. Wars, and many other decisions that Bush has made contributed directly to the loss of money from the US and the economy. Which is weird because wars usually raise the economy. Somehow he managed to lose spents hundreds of billions of dollars of government, and our money, as well as cause the economy to go down.

But I dont blame bush. I think i might have to blame exremist idiots like Nator. If it wasnt for him, bush would have never been in office.


:D :p :D :p :eek:

[jja125]

I am a project manager for one of the largest union construction contractors on the east coast (who, funny enough, has been on the verge of going out of business for the past year). There was definitely a need for unions in the past - but like somebody on here said they are out of hand today. Unions today are garbage IMO. Look at what happened here today - a huge storm came up out of nowhere right at 7:00am so some guys get 1hr show up time, some get 2hr show up time, some get 8hrs rain or shine - all depending on their trades. We do have raincoats here, but none of them will work in the rain, but then they all want thier show up time hrs for doing nothing. Every time it rains we have the potential of losing thousands of dollars if we don't call anybody off beforehand. Not to mention the hundreds of other meaningless disputes we have out here from day to day. Wonder why we can't compete with the non-union companies anymore?

Despite all the BS i put up with at work, the teachers unions are what piss me off the most. Around here teachers make about $50 - $60k a year, full benefits, have all summer and holidays off, and have basically no year to year requirements or standards to meet. When i was in college education majors were at the bottom of the totem pole. You could be the dumbest person on campus drink and party all week, and still graduate and get a teacher's license. Theoretically shouldn't education majors be the smartest people on campus? since they are going to teach our children the ways of the world? The reason teachers have no standardized test to take each year or no basic qualifications to be measured or met year to year is because the teachers unions have been fighting to prevent this for years. Same reason kids have all summer off still. Most other countries go year round, but not here.

And as far as bush, i have never questioned the man's character, integrity, or honesty simply because he was willing to take the rap for his DUI charges back when his father was director of the CIA - wouldn't you think out of anybody in the country to cover something up and make it dissappear, the director of the CIA could do it? Instead bush bent over and took it just like every other "blue collar" guy does in this country.

Sorry this post is so long but this thread just irritated me. Maybe i'm retarded and somebody can "educate" me about the way the teacher's union works, but this is just my opinon and what i've always believed. This site should be like the sign reads in the bar i'm going to shortly ......."keep the politics & religion at home"

[Pappy]

im all about the bush:devil:

http://cdn.news.aol.com/aolnews_photos/00/04/20040714133609990011

[MOFO]

Originally posted by jja125
......."keep the politics & religion at home"


I need to post this on my future inlaws house.... :eek: :mad:

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by Bretmd94

Oh yeah and to the person that said the president has no connection to the economy..... You are stupid. Wars, and many other decisions that Bush has made contributed directly to the loss of money from the US and the economy. Which is weird because wars usually raise the economy. Somehow he managed to lose spents hundreds of billions of dollars of government, and our money, as well as cause the economy to go down.


I was the one who said it, and (this will get me a warning) YOU are a complete and utter MORON. I did not say that the President has no connection to the economy, I said that he does not control the economy. Yes, he can make decisions that have impact, but he is not solely responsible for economic performance. I also said that Bush is not responsible for the economic crash.

The factors that led up to the economic crash were in motion LONG before Bush got into office. The economy was up, tech stocks were way up, and that type of growth simply cannot be maintained, none of which is Bush's fault. Our current economic slump began with the fall of tech stocks in 2000, and they were beginning to stabilize just before 9/11. Obviously the collapse of the trade centers and resulting drop in air travel severly crippled our economy and caused another huge downward spiral. So tell me, which of these factors is Bush's fault?

YOU'RE just pissed because he hasn't pulled us out of it. He's not a miracle worker, he can't fix it overnight. At the same time, he is waging a war at the request of the American People. WE requested that he go after Bin Laden and terrorism, and Iraq is a natural extension of that same war on terror that we so desperately demanded. The economy isn't Bush's fault. Wake up and pull your head out of your rear, and start learning this stuff for yourself rather than listen to what somebody else tells you.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
I was the one who said it, and (this will get me a warning) YOU are a complete and utter MORON. I did not say that the President has no connection to the economy, I said that he does not control the economy. Yes, he can make decisions that have impact, but he is not solely responsible for economic performance. I also said that Bush is not responsible for the economic crash.

The factors that led up to the economic crash were in motion LONG before Bush got into office. The economy was up, tech stocks were way up, and that type of growth simply cannot be maintained, none of which is Bush's fault. Our current economic slump began with the fall of tech stocks in 2000, and they were beginning to stabilize just before 9/11. Obviously the collapse of the trade centers and resulting drop in air travel severly crippled our economy and caused another huge downward spiral. So tell me, which of these factors is Bush's fault?

YOU'RE just pissed because he hasn't pulled us out of it. He's not a miracle worker, he can't fix it overnight. At the same time, he is waging a war at the request of the American People. WE requested that he go after Bin Laden and terrorism, and Iraq is a natural extension of that same war on terror that we so desperately demanded. The economy isn't Bush's fault. Wake up and pull your head out of your rear, and start learning this stuff for yourself rather than listen to what somebody else tells you.


If all of the Bush haters out there could only read what you posted and actually understand it, they would have no ground to stand on. What you have stated is pure fact, not opinions (as most will post as truths). It would be nice if most people who blame the economy on Bush actually understood our economic system and followed it through the 1990's... if they did, their opinion would be different.

I wonder if anyone of these Bush haters remember President Bush clearly stating that we will be going after the terrorists and countrys that harbor and support terrorism. I dont remember ONE single person that was against this statement when he said this shortly after 9/11.

With that said, I would really like to see someone make an arguement based on facts showing that Iraq does not support and/or harbor terrorists.

Also, would someone from the Democratic party please explain why you guys are calling Ridges warning of an attack a "political bluff"? Everyone jumped down Bush's throat because there was no warning of an attack on 9/11 when they had very little to no information. Now, we have information showing that an attack is possible to screw up our election, and the Democrats want to say that this warning is just a political "game"... give me a freakin break!

[honda350r]

This is what our last Democratic president did for us ! Remember Clinton?

During the administration of William Jefferson Clinton, the U.S. enjoyed more peace and economic well being than at any time in its history. He was the first Democratic president since Franklin D. Roosevelt to win a second term. He could point to the lowest unemployment rate in modern times, the lowest inflation in 30 years, the highest home ownership in the country's history, dropping crime rates in many places, and reduced welfare roles. He proposed the first balanced budget in decades and achieved a budget surplus. As part of a plan to celebrate the millennium in 2000, Clinton called for a great national initiative to end racial discrimination!


Wow Rush fathead said everyday how bad he sucked??

[polabareus]

:rolleyes:

[JATV250]

During the administration of William Jefferson Clinton, the U.S. enjoyed more peace and economic well being than at any time in its history. He was the first Democratic president since Franklin D. Roosevelt to win a second term. He could point to the lowest unemployment rate in modern times, the lowest inflation in 30 years, the highest home ownership in the country's history, dropping crime rates in many places, and reduced welfare roles. He proposed the first balanced budget in decades and achieved a budget surplus. As part of a plan to celebrate the millennium in 2000, Clinton called for a great national initiative to end racial discrimination!

He also screwed this country with NAFTA:mad:

[Ericthered rdr]

Originally posted by honda350r
This is what our last Democratic president did for us ! Remember Clinton?

During the administration of William Jefferson Clinton, the U.S. enjoyed more peace and economic well being than at any time in its history. He was the first Democratic president since Franklin D. Roosevelt to win a second term. He could point to the lowest unemployment rate in modern times, the lowest inflation in 30 years, the highest home ownership in the country's history, dropping crime rates in many places, and reduced welfare roles. He proposed the first balanced budget in decades and achieved a budget surplus. As part of a plan to celebrate the millennium in 2000, Clinton called for a great national initiative to end racial discrimination!


Wow Rush fathead said everyday how bad he sucked??

UMMMM..... when are you gonna realize that the president is only good as his cabinet, the elected congress, and many variables that you overlook. I have no desire to sit here and edgucate you on how the system truly works. I do see that you are misguided by propaganda and do not resaerch the facts. Oh your boy Slick Willy is the reason myself and thousands of other soldiers opted out of the military early during the mid 90's because he cut so much spending on DOD.(thats Dept. of Defense for you liberals who forgot that we need a military to protect the freedom you enjoy). I agree that Bush has faults, we can find them in EVERY former president. The problem is with our legal system all the way up to the lawmakers who have gotten so caught up in this P/C BS! Imigration is another major problem. Best of all unions are also at the top of the list. The union boys need to realize that thier jobs are going away because if they demand $25 an hour for a $15 an hr job who is loosing out? The company is going to do it's best to keep it's profit margin up, and how do they do that? The price for the product or service they provide goes up. So thank your union brother for making that nice new truck $45,000 when it might be worth $25,000. My buddy works for GM at thier Broening HWY plant in DUndalk MD. He makes $60,000 a year installing parts that I could tech my 5 yo to install. He will admit that. I on the otherhand have a non union job as an eletrical engineer for a major wireless company. Most all of us in my dept have engineering degrees. The average guy makes 60-70 some make close to 90k. Now you tell me why a guy who installs door trim with a rubber mallet can make the same as a guy with a BS/EE(4 year degree in eletrical engineering). Don't give me the crap that his union brother negotiated his wage. His union brother screwed all of us in the United states because now we pay more for our products because our work force is over payed. I can go on and on for hours but I will save you all the heartache. I intend to offend nobody even though I don't care if you value my opinion or not. Edgucate youself before you vote with non-biased fact before you pull the lever in November! God bless America and roost the hell out of the dirt she provides us:macho :devil:

[Scottie Mac]

Originally posted by zephead400ex
Ok, from everything you posted previous to signing your name, I would have figured you HATED Bush, saying he is the "dumbest president this country has EVER had." Well, I don't know how you would call him dumb:eek2: Just because you don't see eye to eye with him? Doesn't make sense to me.

You then go on to say that the President is the figure head of our country. This is absolutely correct. Now, how do YOU want OUR country portrayed to the rest of the world? A country that is going to sit back and debate whether or not killing 3000+ innocent people is justified to starting a war? Or a country that is going to retaliate and retaliate with a quickness to a tragedy such as 9/11?

Now, you mention "sacred marriage." Now you are making me think you support Bush and not Kerry. Kerry is for gay marriage. Bush wants to keep marriage a sacred joining of a man and woman. So who are you going vote for? Nadar?

My $.02
$.24 in Canada:)

Zep,

Like I said at the beginning of my post, I see good and bad points to both sides. Anyone who thinks only in terms of left or right is narrowminded. I have always considered myself to be a republican. BUT, I do not care for Bush. He isn't the smartest guy ever to run the country, is that better? (instead of calling him a dumbass?) I have listened to him butcher the english language for years. Sorry, but I would hope the guy running the country, in charge of the greatest military in the world, would at least be able to sound as if he is intelligent. Maybe I am asking too much.

My main reason for not liking Bush is the war in Iraq. I believe in defending our country. I understand that Saddam had to go. But, we did not have to invade Iraq, costing the lives of TOO MANY US SOLDIERS to accomplish this. We have the technology to take care of just about any problem from miles away. If there is one thing that HISTORY has proven, it is that you can not invade a country, take over, put in your own regime' and expect it to last. We have had our Vietnam, the soviets learned their lesson in Afghanistan. The longer we are over there, the more the Iraqi people are going to turn on us. I for one don't like listening to the news EVERY night hearing about more and more of our soldiers dying. In the end, the muslims, even those who wanted Saddam out, are going to hate anyone who does not have the religious beliefs they do.

About the War on Terrorism. I would love to be the one who "stikes the death blow" to Bin Laden. I am sure there is a line a mile long who would feel the same. But, we will never "win" the war on terrorism. Kill one, there are a thousand just like them, ready to take there place.

It is not Bush's fault or Clinton's fault (although he could have taken out Bin Laden) that we have the problems with terrorism we have. It is our policy of supporting our oil guard dogs (Isreal - right or wrong) that has made us public enemy number one in the middle east.

Having said all of this, I feel that there is still no way I could bring myself to vote for Kerry. He is just too liberal for my liking. I have a feeling that the real fight is four years away. I warn you now, Mrs. Clinton is going to take all of the liberal north states, throw in California (which generally votes left), and she has a shot at finishing what her husband started. Can you imagine? :(

To each his/her own. But, everyone SHOULD go out and vote.

Scott

just my opinions, nothing more.

[BIGRED400]

Originally posted by jja125
I am a project manager for one of the largest union construction contractors on the east coast (who, funny enough, has been on the verge of going out of business for the past year). There was definitely a need for unions in the past - but like somebody on here said they are out of hand today. Unions today are garbage IMO. Look at what happened here today - a huge storm came up out of nowhere right at 7:00am so some guys get 1hr show up time, some get 2hr show up time, some get 8hrs rain or shine - all depending on their trades. We do have raincoats here, but none of them will work in the rain, but then they all want thier show up time hrs for doing nothing. Every time it rains we have the potential of losing thousands of dollars if we don't call anybody off beforehand. Not to mention the hundreds of other meaningless disputes we have out here from day to day. Wonder why we can't compete with the non-union companies anymore?

Despite all the BS i put up with at work, the teachers unions are what piss me off the most. Around here teachers make about $50 - $60k a year, full benefits, have all summer and holidays off, and have basically no year to year requirements or standards to meet. When i was in college education majors were at the bottom of the totem pole. You could be the dumbest person on campus drink and party all week, and still graduate and get a teacher's license. Theoretically shouldn't education majors be the smartest people on campus? since they are going to teach our children the ways of the world? The reason teachers have no standardized test to take each year or no basic qualifications to be measured or met year to year is because the teachers unions have been fighting to prevent this for years. Same reason kids have all summer off still. Most other countries go year round, but not here.

And as far as bush, i have never questioned the man's character, integrity, or honesty simply because he was willing to take the rap for his DUI charges back when his father was director of the CIA - wouldn't you think out of anybody in the country to cover something up and make it dissappear, the director of the CIA could do it? Instead bush bent over and took it just like every other "blue collar" guy does in this country.

Sorry this post is so long but this thread just irritated me. Maybe i'm retarded and somebody can "educate" me about the way the teacher's union works, but this is just my opinon and what i've always believed. This site should be like the sign reads in the bar i'm going to shortly ......."keep the politics & religion at home"

Sounds like to me you are WHY a UNION needs to be in place, you my son are out of touch with the workingman, probably never had to work a day in your life, collegeboy no doubt, put yourself in thier shoes if you can , a workingman don't have the "perks" you probably have gotten in your package:macho

[Butters]

Bush has been a saint compared to Slick Willy!



hahahahahahahahaha. thats the funniest thing i have ever heard. killing peoples sons and daughters is better than cheating on your wife. hahahahaha. at least when you cheat on your wife you only hurt yourself and your family instead of everyone elses family.

[dbsbl1]

Originally posted by tore up
I dont have a fancey education from a college but I do have a trade that I can go anywhere in the world and get a good paying job. Thats just one thing that the union has provided me. Not to many can say that.:(

I love how people that don't have a college education discount them by using terms like this. If you couldn't earn one, don't knock somebody else's. And I've got a trade (that a union DIDN'T provide me) to go along with my BSME.


And yes, unions have done a lot to ruin the job market in this country.

[dbsbl1]

Originally posted by Butters
hahahahahahahahaha. thats the funniest thing i have ever heard. killing peoples sons and daughters is better than cheating on your wife. hahahahaha. at least when you cheat on your wife you only hurt yourself and your family instead of everyone elses family.

I don't believe Bush forced them to sign up for the military, did he? It's very unfortunate when a soldier is killed while serving, but that's a consequence that know you face when you join.

[Tantal]

Originally posted by Butters
hahahahahahahahaha. thats the funniest thing i have ever heard. killing peoples sons and daughters is better than cheating on your wife. hahahahaha. at least when you cheat on your wife you only hurt yourself and your family instead of everyone elses family.

Clinton never sent troops into harms way? We never lost troops under Clinton? Clinton never ordered missle strikes on various targets in Afghanistan & Iraq? Etc., etc.; ...

Cheating on his wife was NOT one of the worst acts that he commited while in office. If you think Bush is a screw up you should really do some research on the things Clinton did (or didn't do) while in office.

[honda350r]

Originally posted by Tantal
Clinton never sent troops into harms way? We never lost troops under Clinton? Clinton never ordered missle strikes on various targets in Afghanistan & Iraq? Etc., etc.; ...

I can see why you are a Bush supporter! You are as dumb as him !!


In the world, he successfully dispatched peace keeping forces to war-torn Bosnia and bombed Iraq when Saddam Hussein stopped United Nations inspections for evidence of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons. He became a global proponent for an expanded NATO, more open international trade, and a worldwide campaign against drug trafficking. He drew huge crowds when he traveled through South America, Europe, Russia, Africa, and China, advocating U.S. style freedom.

Did you read the part where he bombed Iraq??? DUH !!

[Tantal]

Originally posted by honda350r
I can see why you are a Bush supporter! You are as dumb as him !!

In the world, he successfully dispatched peace keeping forces to war-torn Bosnia and bombed Iraq when Saddam Hussein stopped United Nations inspections for evidence of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons. He became a global proponent for an expanded NATO, more open international trade, and a worldwide campaign against drug trafficking. He drew huge crowds when he traveled through South America, Europe, Russia, Africa, and China, advocating U.S. style freedom.

Did you read the part where he bombed Iraq??? DUH !!

GOTTA LOVE THE DOUBLE STANDARDS!!!!!! Gotta love the double standards. He can do this (D) but he can't (R).

Your knowledge of world conflict/events just totally blows my mind, I am very unimpressed.

Hmmmm, let's see, where should I start...

1. "He drew huge crowds when he traveled through South America, Europe, Russia, Africa, and China, advocating U.S. style freedom"

Like Somalia?

Really though what a line of total BS, that biased crap is something I would expect from one of CNN's "experts".

Also, Bush had troops deployed to Liberia and various other countries in Africa (and elsewhere) with (note with) much success.

2. "He became a global proponent for an expanded NATO, more open international trade, and a worldwide campaign against drug trafficking."

What an absolute f@cking joke.

Like when he pardoned various high lever cocaine dealers? Like when he unsuccessfully deployed U.S. forces and funding to Colombia?

3. "In the world, he successfully dispatched peace keeping forces to war-torn Bosnia and bombed Iraq when Saddam Hussein stopped United Nations inspections for evidence of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons."

Like when he ordered airstrikes in Bosnia and killed all of those innocent people.

Clinton (a Democrat) can order airstrikes on various targets in Iraq but when a Republican steps up to the plate it's a whole different story, huh?

4. "I can see why you are a Bush supporter! You are as dumb as him !!"

That's funny. Bush has more of an education than you. Bush is, in fact, smarter (and richer) than you. :D Need I say more?
-----------------------------
Seriously though, let's just sit in a circle, smoke some dope and preach world peace. Maybe we should just apologize to all of these Islamic extremists and maybe they will stop with their current agenda. Screw cleaning house! Let's pack up the bongs!

Bush may not be the greatest but he is a hell of a lot better than Klinton or Kerry.

[honda350r]

Dope smokers?? get a life !!

[batgeek]

that was your rebuttal to his replies?

[honda350r]

Originally posted by batgeek
that was your rebuttal to his replies?


Yes ! thanks for asking !

I am just glad I made him waste his time and effort in explianing his views,only to find out he is a drug addict!!

I will not waste my time on arguing with a crack head !!

NEXT

[batgeek]

man you are dense aren't you...he posed a rhetorical question.

i didn't think someone could be that clueless.

sarcasm is your friend.

you know someone lost the debate when all points presented are 100% valid, yet the individual resorts to defering and attacking the others validity of the arguement via character bashing.

[Guy400]

Bush is no Reagan in IMO but I, at least, respect Bush for having the moral courage to stand up for something. John Kerry's stance on any issue depends on who his audience is. Why is Somalia often overlooked when discussing Clinton foreign affairs? Why doesn't anybody bring up the fact that he sent troops to Bosnia without approval from the U.N.? Why was it OK for Clinton to do it but when Bush does he's slapping the world community in the face? Ousting Saddam was the right thing to do and I believe history will reflect that as well. The only reason France, Russia and Germany didn't want us toppling Saddam was because that would stop the Oil-For-Food program that was their illegal cash-cow. These countries were willing to turn a blind eye to Saddam's atrocities in exchange for billions of dollars of backdoor proceeds.

Since we're listing Bill's attributes I'll add a few:
1.)Accepting money from Communist China. Bill Clinton accepted money from China in 1996 in exchange for defense secrets. Johnny Chung admitted funneling the money for the DNC and is in prison. Charlie Trie pled guilty to funneling Chinese donations to the DNC and agreed to tak with investigators but suddenly fled to China to seek refuge. John Huang also pled guilty to funneling Chinese bribe money to the Clinton campaign. While the Chinese military was sending money to Clinton's campaign national defense secrets were "mysteriously" being stolen from Los Alamos. The CIA intercepted information that Wen Ho Lee, a nuclear scientist at Los Alamos, was sending information about our most advanced nuclear missle, the W-88, to China. The CIA told Clinton's National Security Advisor about it and she told Clinton. Clinton never even told the Congress about this. They found out about it by reading newspapers. Hell, Lee wasn't fired from Los Alamos until the New York Times broke the story. Because Bill Clinton gave you 4% unemployment you're willing to accept him selling out our country's defense secrets?

2.)31 people who were friends or business partners of Clinton suddenly wound up dead, more than any other president. Nearly all were suicides or of mysterious circumstances. I don't know about you guys but I don't know of anyone that has had 31 friends or business partners kill themselves or die in 'accidents' over 8 years.

3.)More Cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation than any president.

4.)More witnesses called to testify against Clinton have fled the country than any other president.

5.)Enron and MCI/World Com's book-cooking began in the mid-90's. When Clinton was tipped off about possible problems he did nothing.

There's tons more facts about Clinton but I'm tired of typing.

[batgeek]

vote Libertarian!!

at least we don't have a presidential history of being all f*cked up :D

http://www.lp.org

[AtvMxRider]

Originally posted by Guy400
Bush is no Reagan in IMO but I, at least, respect Bush for having the moral courage to stand up for something. John Kerry's stance on any issue depends on who his audience is. Why is Somalia often overlooked when discussing Clinton foreign affairs? Why doesn't anybody bring up the fact that he sent troops to Bosnia without approval from the U.N.? Why was it OK for Clinton to do it but when Bush does he's slapping the world community in the face? Ousting Saddam was the right thing to do and I believe history will reflect that as well. The only reason France, Russia and Germany didn't want us toppling Saddam was because that would stop the Oil-For-Food program that was their illegal cash-cow. These countries were willing to turn a blind eye to Saddam's atrocities in exchange for billions of dollars of backdoor proceeds.

Since we're listing Bill's attributes I'll add a few:
1.)Accepting money from Communist China. Bill Clinton accepted money from China in 1996 in exchange for defense secrets. Johnny Chung admitted funneling the money for the DNC and is in prison. Charlie Trie pled guilty to funneling Chinese donations to the DNC and agreed to tak with investigators but suddenly fled to China to seek refuge. John Huang also pled guilty to funneling Chinese bribe money to the Clinton campaign. While the Chinese military was sending money to Clinton's campaign national defense secrets were "mysteriously" being stolen from Los Alamos. The CIA intercepted information that Wen Ho Lee, a nuclear scientist at Los Alamos, was sending information about our most advanced nuclear missle, the W-88, to China. The CIA told Clinton's National Security Advisor about it and she told Clinton. Clinton never even told the Congress about this. They found out about it by reading newspapers. Hell, Lee wasn't fired from Los Alamos until the New York Times broke the story. Because Bill Clinton gave you 4% unemployment you're willing to accept him selling out our country's defense secrets?

2.)31 people who were friends or business partners of Clinton suddenly wound up dead, more than any other president. Nearly all were suicides or of mysterious circumstances. I don't know about you guys but I don't know of anyone that has had 31 friends or business partners kill themselves or die in 'accidents' over 8 years.

3.)More Cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation than any president.

4.)More witnesses called to testify against Clinton have fled the country than any other president.

5.)Enron and MCI/World Com's book-cooking began in the mid-90's. When Clinton was tipped off about possible problems he did nothing.

There's tons more facts about Clinton but I'm tired of typing.


Damn well said Guy. Like I said earlier in this thread most of the Bush bashers have no f%cking clue of what they are talking about. I "WILL" vote for Bush again because not one of you people can give me a "legitemant" reason not too.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by honda350r
This is what our last Democratic president did for us ! Remember Clinton?

During the administration of William Jefferson Clinton, the U.S. enjoyed more peace and economic well being than at any time in its history. He was the first Democratic president since Franklin D. Roosevelt to win a second term. He could point to the lowest unemployment rate in modern times, the lowest inflation in 30 years, the highest home ownership in the country's history, dropping crime rates in many places, and reduced welfare roles. He proposed the first balanced budget in decades and achieved a budget surplus. As part of a plan to celebrate the millennium in 2000, Clinton called for a great national initiative to end racial discrimination!


Wow Rush fathead said everyday how bad he sucked??


Take a couple economic classes and its pretty easy to see what old Slick Willy did had nothing to do with the economic boom during his terms. Actually, if you looked at the economy or market BEFORE he was out of office, you could see it was taking a HUGE dive... kinda funny if you ask me.... how do you blame President Bush for that if he wasnt even elected yet??? Looks to me that after 8 years of Clinton being in office, the market started to react to his economic policy's.

Oh BTW, due to Clinton not taking an active stance against terrorism, is why Sept 11 happened. Several times thoughout his terms, he had the chance to take Bin Laden out becuase of the smaller attacks he brought against us. What did Willy do? Absolutely nothing... rolling over and not doing anything to defend our country is NOT peace. Did you forget about the attacks to our country during Clintons term? Do you call this peace?????

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Guy400
Bush is no Reagan in IMO but I, at least, respect Bush for having the moral courage to stand up for something. John Kerry's stance on any issue depends on who his audience is. Why is Somalia often overlooked when discussing Clinton foreign affairs? Why doesn't anybody bring up the fact that he sent troops to Bosnia without approval from the U.N.? Why was it OK for Clinton to do it but when Bush does he's slapping the world community in the face? Ousting Saddam was the right thing to do and I believe history will reflect that as well. The only reason France, Russia and Germany didn't want us toppling Saddam was because that would stop the Oil-For-Food program that was their illegal cash-cow. These countries were willing to turn a blind eye to Saddam's atrocities in exchange for billions of dollars of backdoor proceeds.

Since we're listing Bill's attributes I'll add a few:
1.)Accepting money from Communist China. Bill Clinton accepted money from China in 1996 in exchange for defense secrets. Johnny Chung admitted funneling the money for the DNC and is in prison. Charlie Trie pled guilty to funneling Chinese donations to the DNC and agreed to tak with investigators but suddenly fled to China to seek refuge. John Huang also pled guilty to funneling Chinese bribe money to the Clinton campaign. While the Chinese military was sending money to Clinton's campaign national defense secrets were "mysteriously" being stolen from Los Alamos. The CIA intercepted information that Wen Ho Lee, a nuclear scientist at Los Alamos, was sending information about our most advanced nuclear missle, the W-88, to China. The CIA told Clinton's National Security Advisor about it and she told Clinton. Clinton never even told the Congress about this. They found out about it by reading newspapers. Hell, Lee wasn't fired from Los Alamos until the New York Times broke the story. Because Bill Clinton gave you 4% unemployment you're willing to accept him selling out our country's defense secrets?

2.)31 people who were friends or business partners of Clinton suddenly wound up dead, more than any other president. Nearly all were suicides or of mysterious circumstances. I don't know about you guys but I don't know of anyone that has had 31 friends or business partners kill themselves or die in 'accidents' over 8 years.

3.)More Cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation than any president.

4.)More witnesses called to testify against Clinton have fled the country than any other president.

5.)Enron and MCI/World Com's book-cooking began in the mid-90's. When Clinton was tipped off about possible problems he did nothing.

There's tons more facts about Clinton but I'm tired of typing.

for more facts, try reading Dereliction of Duty by Patterson.
The eyewitness account of how Clinton compromised Americas National Security, from Robert Patterson's point of view (the holder of the nuclear football during Clintons term)

[Ericthered rdr]

Originally posted by honda350r
Yes ! thanks for asking !

I am just glad I made him waste his time and effort in explianing his views,only to find out he is a drug addict!!

I will not waste my time on arguing with a crack head !!

NEXT

thats funny because you remind me of one of those little hippie wannabee's. You need to look past all of the liberal propaganda and look into the facts. Do so me reasearch on the presidents of the last 20 years and the economy and world affairs. Then take some economics classes to understand the way the economy works and how laws and taxes affect our markets. You seem to be an intelligent young man but I just think you need to get real facts and stop being blinded by the liberal media propaganda. I am glad you kicked back on the drug stuff. I would rather you say what you did instead of saying "ok dude I got some killer buds lets go do some bong hits" even though I think Guy400 was joking. What everyone here should be upset about is out of all the people that live in the US these are the two best guys we can find for the job. SAD...... REAL SAD!!!!!

[batgeek]

these are the two best guys we can find for the job

no they aren't.

[Ericthered rdr]

Originally posted by batgeek
no they aren't.

thats what I was implying:D

[86350x]

Originally posted by batgeek
please post a disclaimer with this.

*taken from a biased, VERY liberal satire site*

Bush AND Kerry suck. i don't care for either of them.

[jja125]

Originally posted by BIGRED400
Sounds like to me you are WHY a UNION needs to be in place, you my son are out of touch with the workingman, probably never had to work a day in your life, collegeboy no doubt, put yourself in thier shoes if you can , a workingman don't have the "perks" you probably have gotten in your package:macho


You my son are a tool. To say i'm "out of touch with the workingman" and a "collegeboy no doubt" without knowing anything about me, where i come from, where i've worked, how i payed for college, etc. is completely ignorant. I could go into my life's story here, but i assure you i bust my *ss for every penny i make. I work in the rain. I worked in northeastern PA on top of a mountian saturday, january 8th, 2000 stripping forms with a carpenter crew in minus 37 windchill (and yes we all volunteered to work in those conditions - all week).
Yes, i'm sure i have more "perks", but i also have just as many downfalls to my job - one large one being responsibility for the ENTIRE JOB.

What irritates me about unions is like what was said in an earlier post - why are we paying somebody $50 - $60k a year to perform a task that requires 1 day's worth of training to master? and how are we supposed to compete with other companies that don't? .........and i know 1 day's training is an extreme case, but most construction trades do not take nearly the same amount of training and experience that an engineering degree and management position does, so why do they pay close to the same? Unions will not survive if this continues to be the case.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by Guy400
Why is Somalia often overlooked when discussing Clinton foreign affairs? Why doesn't anybody bring up the fact that he sent troops to Bosnia without approval from the U.N.? Why was it OK for Clinton to do it but when Bush does he's slapping the world community in the face?

Unfortunately, these questions have one very simple answer: Economic growth and Liberal Media.

The economy was up, Americans were happy making money, nobody really cared about foriegn affairs, which is very typical of economic booms. Combine that with a liberal media looking for ANY excuse to make a Republican President look bad. Nobody cared about Somalia, and the media isn't going to make a huge stink about it because Clinton is a Democrat.

Now enter Bush, with the exact opposite scenario. Economy down, so suddenly we care about foriegn affairs, and the liberal media with an agenda to do anything they can to make him look bad. As a result, anything the media can present to make Bush look bad gets huge press coverage.

[Butters]

i notice that there is a lot of people on here that don't like kerry or bush. but i know that even though some of you guys don't like either one you guys will still pick the better of the 2 evils whichever one that may be. so why don't you vote an for someone else. there is usually always 1 other candidate that actually takes quite a few popular votes. if more and more people would start voting for the 3rd party person, even though he wouldn't win, people who vote for the better of the 2 evils, would look and see that the 3rd party was actuall somewhat popular and vote. the more the vote the better the chance. then maybe someday we may actually have 3 or maybe even more parties to vote from that actually stand a chance. just a thought.

[tore up]

Originally posted by jja125
You my son are a tool. To say i'm "out of touch with the workingman" and a "collegeboy no doubt" without knowing anything about me, where i come from, where i've worked, how i payed for college, etc. is completely ignorant. I could go into my life's story here, but i assure you i bust my *ss for every penny i make. I work in the rain. I worked in northeastern PA on top of a mountian saturday, january 8th, 2000 stripping forms with a carpenter crew in minus 37 windchill (and yes we all volunteered to work in those conditions - all week).
Yes, i'm sure i have more "perks", but i also have just as many downfalls to my job - one large one being responsibility for the ENTIRE JOB.

What irritates me about unions is like what was said in an earlier post - why are we paying somebody $50 - $60k a year to perform a task that requires 1 day's worth of training to master? and how are we supposed to compete with other companies that don't? .........and i know 1 day's training is an extreme case, but most construction trades do not take nearly the same amount of training and experience that an engineering degree and management position does, so why do they pay close to the same? Unions will not survive if this continues to be the case.

The Unions are only strong in 14 outta the 50 states, that being the case I dont think the Unions are the ones responsible for running the Ecconomy into the ground. Most Union Tradesmen and women go to Night school for 3 to 5 years ( they do at least out here in the southwest ) and earn a degree in what ever trade they work under, THAT THEY PAY FOR. Most of America would not have been built if it werent for the Union Tradesman. 75% of the American Workforce at one time were Union. That means 3 out of 4 Families were Union at one time. Maybe You should check your families past? The dollar that bought your Education, the food and clothes, and the nice house that you lived in as you grew up could of came from the UNEDUCATED UNION MAN that worked his body into the ground to provide it for your *****.:mad: ;)

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by tore up
Most Union Tradesmen and women go to Night school for 3 to 5 years ( they do at least out here in the southwest ) and earn a degree in what ever trade they work under,

But that 3-5 years of night school would only equate to 2 years of full-time education, or roughly the equivalent of 60 college credits. An engineering degree requires roughly 130 credits for a BS degree, or about 4 years of FULL TIME education, not just night-school.

So why are they getting payed the same amount?

[Guy400]

When someone joins a union are they required to take some sort of brainwashing serum? I'll agree that at one time unionization was necessary because of unsafe working conditions, ridiculous hours and scant pay. Alas, this isn't the latter half of the 1800's or the first half of the 1900's. All sorts of laws protect the American worker now without the help of a union. Union workers are some of the first people to scream about their jobs fleeing to other countries yet their shortsightedness won't allow them to see the bigger picture--they've demanded wages beyond what they're worth and companies are forced to go elsewhere. My father-in-law is a UAW member and works for GM. There are floor sweepers in the Lordstown plant making $25/hour because that's what the union has demanded. Is a guy pushing a broom really worth $25/hour when you could pay someone else $10/hour? This isn't 1960 anymore when there looked to be no end to the profit margin of the big steel and manufacturing industries. Right here in Canton, OH Timken Roller Bearing and Hoover's are both nearly non-existant anymore. The union has demanded salaries far higher than what they're worth. I've got friends that still work for Timken's here locally and their mentality is comical. They're pissed because their father's retired with full pay and full medical but the contract they signed for only allots them 60% pay and partial medical. They're still making $60k/year to watch an automated machine do its job. My cousin was a non-union steelworker. When the union went on one of its frequent strikes they hired his company to finish the rest of the elementary that was being built. When he returned to his truck he found his passenger window busted out and "SCAB" keyed into the paint. Is this the type of organization I want to be associated with? Hell no. My mother is the director of nursing, she's a non-union employee. The nurses there are union. The nurses went on strike and the union brought people in who were not even employees at that hospital to picket. They did more threatening of bodily harm than peaceful picketing. My final comment is if you work for a company that you feel is so untrustworthy that you've got to unionize, why do you work for them? If everyone found better places of employment the company would have to change its policies on its own accord. I know if I worked for someone that I felt was underpaying me and providing me with unsafe conditions I'd be the hell out of there.

[BIGRED400]

Originally posted by tore up
The Unions are only strong in 14 outta the 50 states, that being the case I dont think the Unions are the ones responsible for running the Ecconomy into the ground. Most Union Tradesmen and women go to Night school for 3 to 5 years ( they do at least out here in the southwest ) and earn a degree in what ever trade they work under, THAT THEY PAY FOR. Most of America would not have been built if it werent for the Union Tradesman. 75% of the American Workforce at one time were Union. That means 3 out of 4 Families were Union at one time. Maybe You should check your families past? The dollar that bought your Education, the food and clothes, and the nice house that you lived in as you grew up could of came from the UNEDUCATED UNION MAN that worked his body into the ground to provide it for your *****.:mad: ;)

I can understand a parts pusher at a car plant does get overpaid, but there are some trades that are worth every penny, Plumbers,Ironworkers,Pipefitters, Lineman,etc.I have been a Ironworker in the past and currently I am a Hi-Voltage Journeyman Lineman who has served my time many years ago in my apprenticeship, since then done many storms ,hurricanes , ice storms and firestorms............what irritates me is some "white collars" think they are what holds America in place, some years ago a certain CEO just about ran our Power Company into the ground because of his greed, I think some collegeboys can't stand it when they see a Journeyman make 6 figures in a year which is above thier scale with less headaches, go figure a working man making that..America Works because People Do
PS jja125 -mountain- is how you spell it ,guess what ?I did'nt go to college either:D

[jja125]

i don't need to check my family's past. my father was and still is a union laborer & carpenter & superintendent & pres. of several const companies for 30+ years. my grandfather was a union laborer, carpenter, & superintendent for 40+ years and both are of the same opionion as me. they both went to night school and got engineering degrees and worked their way up (and no, i have never worked for either one of them, i worked my way up the same way. i could easily go work for my father, but i chose just on principal to work for another company and make my own way.) what makes you think i lived in such a nice house growing up? my dad wasn't exactly a millionare supporting 4 kids and paying for nightschool in 1970 on a laborer's wage. ;) in fact my girlfriend and i lived in a $2000, 1975 green trailer with holes in the floor and heat tape on the pipes up until two years ago :blah:

i didn't say unions were responsible for running the economy into the ground, just said that union companies cannont compete with non-union anymore especially with the wages we are forced to pay for simple tasks (i think flagger's rates out here are like $15/hour + union benefits). why are they only strong in 14 states now? why is our company going out of business? i just get tired of the petty arguments that come up every day when we are paying these kind of wages. very seldom have i seen any "real" issues that the business agents need to come out and meet with contractors to deal with. it always seems like its something stupid that people are complaining about and nothing to do with what unions were originally intended for. anyway, like i said its just my opinon - been here since 6am and its 6:30 now, and i'm only salary, so i'm going home. ;)

[wilkin250r]

Why is it that the only people "for" unions are the ones that are "in" unions?

Actually, as I give it more thought, I guess it is understandable. Heck, I'd like to make $25/hour for sweeping floors! Who wouldn't want to make more money for doing the same amount of work? No wonder unions are so popular...

[jja125]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
But that 3-5 years of night school would only equate to 2 years of full-time education, or roughly the equivalent of 60 college credits. An engineering degree requires roughly 130 credits for a BS degree, or about 4 years of FULL TIME education, not just night-school.

So why are they getting payed the same amount?


wilkin, i was thinking the same thing, but didn't bother to get into it.

bigred - do you really think you need a union to secure your job or make the rates you do as a Hi-Voltage Journeyman Lineman?
i wouldn't think there are that many of you guys out there to be competing with?

i know some plumbers & pipefitters that work at a local plant (that is just about shut down now) that told me they are only allowed to make 4/each/shift of whatever they make there on nightshift, even though they said they could easily make 8/each, but they were told by senior members that they have always only made 4 so it is easy on them on nightshift and that it would remain that way or they would no longer be in the union - so my buddies sit around half the night doing nothing. (maybe they are boilermakers - i don't remember)

another good one i thought of - my girlfriend used to work with teamsters at a place that hauled old people to and from hospitals, etc. the one teamster picked up an alzheimers (spelling? bigred? :D ) patient from somewhere and when she dropped him off at home it had started to rain so she just left him off on the curb instead of walking him to the door as instructed. my girlfriend was on call that night and had to go look for the dude - they found him like 24hrs later sitting in a neighbor's parked car. even though the right thing to do would be to fire this woman and the guy's family should have sued the driver, my girlfriend was forced to keep her employed by the teamsters.

[Guy400]

I was at a convention center setting up for a trade show and it was a union building. I needed a simple end spliced onto a wire so we could plug it into a special 220v socket in the floor. I wasn't allowed to wire it myself because it was against union policy (even though it was my equipment):huh and when I asked one of the electricians there he said he only did lights and he'd have to get someone else. We tracked down the electrician that did outlets and he said, "Sure, as soon as I come back from my 15." About 30 seconds later a tone sounded and the building became absent of any workers for 15 minutes. Finally, after 20 minutes of dickin' around I had my wire spliced in about 30 seconds.

[BIGRED400]

No, I do have certain issues with the union as well, No, I can get job anywhere, without the union, I understand that there is certain people that hide behind the union label as well, I don't like the union who to tell me who to vote for either, the IBEW or International Brotherhood Of Electrical Workers was founded by a Lineman who saw firsthand of Electrical acccidents that were so bad 1 out of 2 lineman were killed on the job,he made it a safer trade, by having safety practices and skilled training in place,now the IBEW is run by politicians that don't have a clue, so I share with you the other side of the coin....I give a hard day's work for my scale and am thankful for my job, I can honestly sympathize (spelling)? with you because I do work around slackers but please don't judge by thinking all are from the same mold as these.........take care.........be safe:D

[Pappy]

anyone want to place a bet that if kerry wins we still face global terrorism:confused:

hell, let it happen. ill be dropping ragheads and kerry supporters in the street:o

get past the political BS and realize that these sand fleas have no concern over who is preisdent, they will use any issue they can to divide america.

im starting to wonder if there are any REAL americans left, i feel sorry for my kids:(

[AtvMxRider]

Originally posted by Pappy
im starting to wonder if there are any REAL americans left,

No, This country is full of Liberal pu$$ies if you ask me.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by AtvMxRider
No, This country is full of Liberal pu$$ies if you ask me.


... that need plane tickets to France and Spain...

[AtvMxRider]

Originally posted by MOFO
... that need plane tickets to France and Spain...


No doubt Eric, no doubt:macho

[Samson]

Unrelated, but you know......sorta funny.


SUPPORT YOUR BELIEFS

In honor of President Ronald Wilson Reagan:

If you support the policies and character that our 40th president stood for, please drive with your headlights on during the day on Friday.

If you support John Kerry, please drive with your headlights off that night.



Cowboy
http://www.catsprn.com/cowboys.htm

[MIKE400EX]

The following is a brief backround on Mrs. John Kerry . She hates being called that, by the way:
Maria Teresa Thiersten Simoes-Ferreira Heinz Kerry. Married Senator Kerry in 1995. She only took his name eighteen months ago and she is an "interesting" paradox of conflicts.
If you thought John Kerry was scary, he doesn't hold a candle to his wife! Maria Teresa Thiersten Simoes-Ferreira Heinz Kerry was born in Mozambique, the daughter of a Portuguese physician, was educated in Switzerland and South Africa. Fluent in five languages, she was working as a United Nations interpreter in Geneva in the mid-60's when she met a "handsome" young American, H. John Heinz, III, who worked at a bank in Geneva. He told her his family was "in the food business." They were married in 1966 and returned to Pittsburgh where his family ran the giant H. J. Heinz food company. He was elected to the US House of Representatives in 1971, and in 1976 he was elected to the first of three terms in the United States Senate. A Republican, he wrote a burning diatribe against some of the causes backed by young House member John Kerry. Several years later, in 1991, he was killed when his plane collided with a Sun Oil Company helicopter over a Philadelphia suburb. The senator, his pilot and copilot, and both of Sun's helicopter pilots were killed. He was survived by his wife, Teresa, and their three young sons. Four years later, having inherited Heinz's $500 million fortune, she married Senator John Forbes Kerry, the liberal then-junior senator from Massachusetts. She became a registered Democrat and the process of her radicalization was set in motion. Heinz Kerry is not shy about telling people that she required Kerry to sign a prenuptial agreement before they were married. John Kerry may not have check writing privileges on the Heinz catsup and pickle fortune, but he is certainly a willing and uncomplaining beneficiary of it. A lot of hard-earned money, made through many years of hawking catsup, mustard, and pickles has fallen into the hands of two people who despise successful entrepreneurship and who believe in the confiscatory redistribution of wealth.
So how does Mrs. Heinz Kerry spend John Heinz's money?
Just one example: According to the G2 Bulletin, an online intelligence newsletter of WorldNetDaily, in the years between 1995-2001 she gave more than $4 million to an organization called the Tides Foundation. And what does the Tides Foundation do with John Heinz's money? They support numerous antiwar groups, including Ramsey Clark's International Action Center. Clark has offered to defend Saddam Hussein when he's tried. They support the Democratic Justice Fund, a joint venture of the Tides Foundation and billionaire hate-monger George Soros. The
Democratic Justice Fund seeks to ease restrictions on Muslim immigration from "terrorist" states. They support the Council for American-Islamic Relations, whose leaders are known to have close ties to the terrorist group, Hamas. They support the National Lawyers Guild, organized as a communist front during the Cold War era. One of their attorneys, Lynne Stewart, has been arrested for helping a client, Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman,
communicate with terror cells in Egypt. He is the convicted mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. They support the "Barrio Warriors," a radical Hispanic group whose primary goal is to return all of Arizona, California, New Mexico, and
Texas to Mexico. These are but a few of the radical groups that benefit, through the anonymity provided by the Tides Foundation, from the generosity of our would-be first lady, the wealthy widow of Republican senator John Heinz, and now the wife of the Democratic senator who aspires to be the 44th President of the United States.
Aiding and supporting our enemies is not good for America, regardles of your political views.
If voters will open their eyes, educate themselves and see the
real Teresa Heinz Kerry, they will not appreciate her position as ultra rich fairy godmother of the radical left. They will not want to imagine her laying her head on a pillow each night inches away from the President of the United States. Hopefully they love this country enough to decide that the only way these two will ever be allowed into the White House is with an engraved invitation in hand.
Instead of deleting this, pass it on. Let everyone know these people are unfit to represent this great nation. The uninformed will never hear the truth from the press, who wants Kerry elected!
Those who buy the Kerry facade, beware what you vote for!

[Pappy]

wow:eek:

[popo]

Originally posted by Pappy
wow:eek:

I second that wow! Good thing I don't like ketchup

[MIKE400EX]

Some how I knew that you two would like that!.........and my sentiments exactly.:eek2:

[MOFO]

any Kerry supporters care to debate what was just posted?? :confused:



:devil:

[MIKE400EX]

Try this: http://www.scaryjohnkerry.com/

[Pappy]

Originally posted by MIKE400EX
Try this: http://www.scaryjohnkerry.com/

i sure hope this site is better then ********


oops that was a real porn site:eek:

[Guy400]

Mike400EX, I got that email last week at work...interesting to say the least.

How about Sandy Berger (Clinton's former National Security Advisor) getting caught shoving intelligence documents about terrorism down his pants and now some of them are missing.

Here's some humor I think we can all afford:D

http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/this_land

Update: after I posted this I saw there was a thread further down about it as well.

[86350x]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Why is it that the only people "for" unions are the ones that are "in" unions?

Actually, as I give it more thought, I guess it is understandable. Heck, I'd like to make $25/hour for sweeping floors! Who wouldn't want to make more money for doing the same amount of work? No wonder unions are so popular...

No kidding, I don't even get 25 bucks an hour. I'm not in a union, i'm my own union. You go to work and represent yourself.

Don't even get me started on some of the plant's here. I guess if your brothers, cousins, uncles dads buddy can work in our plant you can too(even if you have no credentials). Pluss you get all holiday's off, and only have to do about 5-6 hrs of work (if that) in a 8hr day.

[mobyplane]

Well dang, this is not the place where I expected to find a political debate. I guess the whole Bill Ballance incident a few weeks ago whetted our appitite for voicing our opinions on debatable topics. I sort of look forward to coming to exriders.com to feed my ATV interests, not to discuss the two presidential candidates. So, let's combine the two. Let's take a brief survey.

Who do you think would win a 2 hour GNCC race between these two guys and why?

My vote for this question:
Bush
I think he is tougher.
I think he is a fierce competitor.
I think he can kick John Kerry's *** if he catches him cheating.
Bush has probably acutally been on a quad before.
And finally, I'd look forward to drinking a beer with him after the race.