Looky Here!!

[Got nads?]

Have any of you 450R owners invested in a hot cams stage 2 cam yet. If so did you notice an increase in power. I know I had one in my 440EX and it made a difference, but I am still undecided on what to buy!:confused:

[04'400ex'er]

The hot cams 2 will give you a power gain, mid-top, and will overpower the HRC cam. I personally will look to the Sparks or web cams when the time comes.

[86atc250r]

The hot cams 2 will give you a power gain, mid-top, and will overpower the HRC cam. I personally will look to the Sparks or web cams when the time comes.

No offense to anyone here but....

There's a lot of cam talk on this messageboard. Most of it comes from people who haven't even bothered to look at and compare the cam specifications - yet alone test any of the cams against each other.

Part of this is Sparks fault as they are "secretive" about their cams (because they don't want you to know they just buy them from a commonly available cam grinder and resell them as their own).

For instance, did you know:

1.) The Sparks Cam and the HRC cam are very similar in thier numbers? So similar in fact, that it's unlikely that anyone could tell any seat of the pants difference in the two - yet alone claim the differences in the two that you often see quoted here - (regurgitation of info from the sales crew at Sparks).

2.) Web does make a cam slightly more wild than an HRC or Sparks - but it only has significantly more duration on the exhaust side of things - it actually has less intake lift than an HRC cam.

3.) Hotcams does not make a 450R cam that is as wild as the HRC cam - hence you will not produce more peak power with a hot cam than you do with the HRC.

4.) Both the Sparks and HRC cams are "wilder" than any of the CRF cams.

5.) Unless you make modifications to the head itself, you can't run much more of an aggressive cam than Sparks, or HRC.

[Sandgod4]

You're a smart guy Gabe and I always read your techincal advise w/ great interest..!!! Hey, I still run your Moto/Speed Map often.:macho

[04'400ex'er]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
No offense to anyone here but....

There's a lot of cam talk on this messageboard. Most of it comes from people who haven't even bothered to look at and compare the cam specifications - yet alone test any of the cams against each other.

Part of this is Sparks fault as they are "secretive" about their cams (because they don't want you to know they just buy them from a commonly available cam grinder and resell them as their own).

For instance, did you know:

1.) The Sparks Cam and the HRC cam are very similar in thier numbers? So similar in fact, that it's unlikely that anyone could tell any seat of the pants difference in the two - yet alone claim the differences in the two that you often see quoted here - (regurgitation of info from the sales crew at Sparks).

2.) Web does make a cam slightly more wild than an HRC or Sparks - but it only has significantly more duration on the exhaust side of things - it actually has less intake lift than an HRC cam.

3.) Hotcams does not make a 450R cam that is as wild as the HRC cam - hence you will not produce more peak power with a hot cam than you do with the HRC.

4.) Both the Sparks and HRC cams are "wilder" than any of the CRF cams.

5.) Unless you make modifications to the head itself, you can't run much more of an aggressive cam than Sparks, or HRC. My point for that post was to Inform the man a little on the backgrounds of a few cams. MANY posts I have red here have stated that the HRC cam is mild, and knowing that the hotcams stage 2 is a mid to top performer, it was only obvious to me that what I had herd about the two, I should state. I believe the sparks cam is a great cam also and that they do not relese the specs. for fear of a cheaper cam of the same lift/duration. I also know web cams have always been a great choice in cams also. Sorry for the information.

[86atc250r]

I believe the sparks cam is a great cam also and that they do not relese the specs. for fear of a cheaper cam of the same lift/duration.

That might be the crap they feed people but any Joe Sixpack out there can measure the specifications himself with minimal tools and knowledge --- if you think that someone with the tooling and knowledge to be a cam grinder couldn't easily duplicate the cam profile if they wanted you're only kidding yourself.

The reason they don't release the cam information (which would be a laughable practice in the automotive world), is because they don't want you figuring out they are only reselling commonly available cams, which would kill the "mystique" they enjoy charging you so much for...


My point for that post was to Inform the man a little on the backgrounds of a few cams.

My point was that if all you have to go on is hearsay from the messageboards - you shouldn't be giving cam advice.

I wasn't and am not trying to attack you - I'm just tired of misinformation being spread around.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
No offense to anyone here but....

There's a lot of cam talk on this messageboard. Most of it comes from people who haven't even bothered to look at and compare the cam specifications - yet alone test any of the cams against each other.

Part of this is Sparks fault as they are "secretive" about their cams (because they don't want you to know they just buy them from a commonly available cam grinder and resell them as their own).

For instance, did you know:

1.) The Sparks Cam and the HRC cam are very similar in thier numbers? So similar in fact, that it's unlikely that anyone could tell any seat of the pants difference in the two - yet alone claim the differences in the two that you often see quoted here - (regurgitation of info from the sales crew at Sparks).

2.) Web does make a cam slightly more wild than an HRC or Sparks - but it only has significantly more duration on the exhaust side of things - it actually has less intake lift than an HRC cam.

3.) Hotcams does not make a 450R cam that is as wild as the HRC cam - hence you will not produce more peak power with a hot cam than you do with the HRC.

4.) Both the Sparks and HRC cams are "wilder" than any of the CRF cams.

5.) Unless you make modifications to the head itself, you can't run much more of an aggressive cam than Sparks, or HRC.

Gabe, this is the very first time I diagree with your Sparks-HRC comparison. I have both cams and have measured the lift- they are clearly different. The HRC is for top end, and Sparks is for low to mid. Just thought I'd let ya know.

[Lason]

Does Sparks include a cam card with their cams? I know from building V8 for hot rods and weekend drag cars that any manufacter that keeps their cam specs a "secret" is suspect. Anyway I havent ever bought a cam from Sparks and the HRC kit in my 450R came installed from the dealer so I never had a chance to check out the kit before instalation. Anyway if they do include a card like they should be doing then can someone post up the specs? I would like to know this as well in case I ever decide I need more aggresive of a cam. I dont believe in buying because "Bubba" said it would be a night/day difference from my current HRC cam.

[86atc250r]

You be the judge (and no, Sparks cam specs are "secret" - they will not tell you even if you ask):

.....................HRC..........Sparks
int lift:______.390 _____.412
lobe cntr:____110 _____108
ehx lift:_____.350_____.350

lobe cntr:____105_____108
LSA:________107.5 ___108
int dur:______260_____260
exh dur:_____260_____268
overlap:_____ 45 _____ 48


I'm not sure how these specifications relate to the Sparks being more of a "midrange" cam - but if their sales folks say it's so --- it must be so.

[Lason]

Is that Lobe Ctr the lobe separation? Anyway I also agree that the Sparks cam doesnt look like anything that wild compared to the HRC. The Lobe Seperation looks like it would help it when using nitrous but that is about the only big change. I havent been able to study ATV cam profiles so Im just going by what I know of the automotive world.
To be honest though, this is all just here say untill we can see two machines on the rollers with both of the cams installed and broke in.

[Got nads?]

So 96atc250r, you say that Web Cams makes a camshsft that is "wilder" then the HRC or Sparks Cam, but then you say that you cant use a "wilder" cam without mods to the head. I was wondering if you had the choice which would you choose? From what I heard Sparks uses Hot Cams for teir camshafts, but I could be wrong!

[86atc250r]

Now read what I really said before you go trying to be too hard on me...

I said you can't get *much* wilder than the Sparks or HRC with the stock head - and I said the Web was slightly wilder on the exhaust duration, but had less intake lift. The lift is where the problem lies.

Sparks = Megacycle

[lukester720]

And LRD = WEB ;)

[Got nads?]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
Now read what I really said before you go trying to be too hard on me...

I said you can't get *much* wilder than the Sparks or HRC with the stock head - and I said the Web was slightly wilder on the exhaust duration, but had less intake lift. The lift is where the problem lies.

Sparks = Megacycle


I didn't mean to be hard on you just trying to clarify.:D

[REDARMYRACER]

ok, is it true, that the more as you put it "wilder" a cam is the ruffer the idle?

i know in cars with serious camms in them they idle ruff, i.e. cam out, i'm no expert so dont attack me like you mugs have done before?? just a asking!! hahhahahhhaa!!!!