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View Full Version : do the r's of old hold their own today?



trict_out
07-01-2004, 03:53 PM
im thinkin of gettin an r to go along with my 300 so i can have a race bike and a trail bike but i was wonderin if the r's hold their own against the new bikes (450's) but i would probally be racing in the 2 stroke class am i correct? i was just wondering i ride with a warrior, force,pred,kfx and i was just wonderin how it will stack up.

07-01-2004, 04:59 PM
Yes U will easily keep up, U can get an r much much much faster than a 450 iwhtout even spending nearly as much as the yfz would cost.

addictedtomud
07-01-2004, 05:52 PM
I agree...the only reason the pros are using 4 strokes is because that's where the factory money is. Even if you are not a sponsored rider, you will never get sponsored by a factory if you don't ride a quad they currently produce. I think a stock yfz 450 is faster and more powerful than a stock 250r. However a 250r can easily be built to have as much or more power than a built YFZ - and for less cash. I own both machines and can tell you from experience: I would rather own a $7000 (built) 250r than a $7000 (stock) YFZ any day!!
Kyle

trict_out
07-01-2004, 06:01 PM
addicted you are from st. clairesville my aunt and little cousin live there. i heard it was killer riding. thanks for the replies.

skidaddyjr
07-01-2004, 06:15 PM
A decent 250R with a fatty and a bigger carb will more than keep up with any bike currently produced!The handly is the standard from which all atv"s are measured from and they are simple to maintain if you have old school mechanical enginuity! The 250R is far from being out dated it just that other person said, It all politics to out 2strokes and get factory backing ($$$)into the atv market which good for the most part.

seven
07-01-2004, 08:02 PM
Maybe stock, But you would need a good 310 or 330 to keep up with a piped YFZ. I have had both and those YFZs are dang fast with a good slip on pipe.

addictedtomud
07-01-2004, 09:26 PM
Right seven! And a used YFZ with a pipe can be had for what, maybe $5500? And for the same money you can buy a nice 250R with aftermarket chassis, aftermarket shocks, and a 310 or 330 race motor.
Kyle

seven
07-02-2004, 09:51 AM
I agree that for the money you can have a great 250R for what you can get a stock YFZ. But, The thingthat I ran into with my 250R is you start to notice every bolt and every piece on the R is starting to show its age. And at some point they will quit making factory parts for them. At some point ,and its happening now, They keep losing there value adn it may be a great quad but its only worth 3000$ and you have 6000-7000 into it. I sold mine when the market started to drop off for them. You used to not be able to touch one for under 4000 in decent shape. Now you see them going for 2000-3000.

muddy400EX
07-02-2004, 01:14 PM
im a big fan of the 250r and i love two strokes. i hate to see them fade away.

Troy86250r
07-02-2004, 01:17 PM
My buddie bought a new 450r a month or so ago and swore up and down that he would smoke my R. So I raced him down the road, we were about even through the powerband and I was a touch faster on top end. Of course I had 18 inch mx tires on, and my top end was worn out. I rode his 450r and really wasnt that impressed with it. I guess Im just a 2 stroke guy though.

addictedtomud
07-02-2004, 04:45 PM
Consider this...a new YFZ (for example) costs $6899. Then you put on a slip-on ($299) and a jet kit ($49.99). So you've got over $7000 in it, not counting tax. You drive it a season in the woods and then decide to sell it so you can get the newest, latest, greatest, most powerful quad they come out with next year. How much can you sell it for? $5500 if you're lucky. You just lost $1500-$2000 in one year. Talk about depreciation! Then the guy who buys it rides it for another year or two and by then it is "obsolete" because the 2006 models are "better" just like the dirt bikes get "better" every year. No one in 2006 will want a 2004 for any more than, say $4000-4200. So the second owner also lost $1300. Still depreciating...

The 250R you buy today for $5500 will still run with the four strokes and parts will still be available for years to come. And if its worth $5500 15 years after production stopped, it will still be worth $5500 17-20 years after production stopped. All these examples assume that you maintain the quad in excellent condition.

Can you spend $15000 to build a race 250r and get your money back out of it? No way!! But the same holds true for a YFZ, TRX, or whatever. You'd be lucky to get 1/2 your money back...

seven
07-02-2004, 05:48 PM
I actually waited to find one used. It had about 2 hours total on it and the guy needed to get rid of it. I gave him 5000$ for it. Point being they are starting to be sold used now so there is no need to buy new. So now ad 230$ for a pipe and 2000$ for Arms axle and suspension.

Motomanvin329
07-02-2004, 11:08 PM
250r is the best race quad i would have to say i love mine its fast and handles great all this quads are being made and the 250r still ripp on them i def would pick a R over a 4 stroke any day and they will always make parts for the R is been around for 14 years and u can still find anything for it i dont think this quad will ever get old or ever b beatin.

nacs400ex
07-03-2004, 04:02 PM
:o There will always be people that think just because Honda stopped producing the R that its no good, or because "all" those Pros ride 450s that everything else is under par. Well when I rode a YFZ WITH a pipe, LT elkas, JB arms, etc.. I thought it was nice yes, but to sell an R just to buy it, no way. I wont sell my R until the factory starts building race ready quads. Well around here stock and pretty beat R's (1986's) go for $5000 CDN. Now you tell me when ANY YFZ is going to be worth that in 18 years. LMFAO

It doesnt matter if the factory isnt producing any parts, there will always be aftermarket parts for R's. It has the widest variety of aftermarket parts to choose from and the R can be transformed to do any type of riding or racing. ( XC, Desert, Drag, MX, TT, flattrack, trail riding)

If Honda came out with an R next year ( yes I know it will never happen) I would guarentee it would be on the podium at every race.

LT250Racer609
07-03-2004, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by seven
Maybe stock, But you would need a good 310 or 330 to keep up with a piped YFZ. I have had both and those YFZs are dang fast with a good slip on pipe.


that isnt true. i have the new 450R with the HRC exhaust set up and my dad has a 250R with just a pipe....yah my 450 accelerates alot faster however..the 250R kills me on top end, and his 250R is on the stock bore so i dont really unserstand where you can get a 310 or a 330 to just keep up with a YFZ with a slip on...both 450's are very identical in power/top speed and overall performance...i believe a YFZ w/ a slip on racing a 310 or 330 R wouldnt even be much of a race past 3rd gear...

seven
07-03-2004, 08:21 PM
I have been around both and I havent seen a honda with just a pipe even hang with a YFZ. It took the cam,High comp. piston and the pipe work to get the honda even close.

Motomanvin329
07-03-2004, 10:27 PM
a 250r can smoke a yfz any day ive seen it i think the 250r is sooo much faster and even a hooked up yfz against a 250r with mods the yfz dont stand a chance F@*k four stroke

Pappy
07-03-2004, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by Motomanvin329
a 250r can smoke a yfz any day ive seen it i think the 250r is sooo much faster and even a hooked up yfz against a 250r with mods the yfz dont stand a chance F@*k four stroke

damn...did you forget your medicene :eek2:

first off, a stock 86,87,88 or 89 trx250r will get its *** waxed by a stock YFZ or TRX450R.

secondly, a well assembled and built 250R will stand toe to toe with anything currently on the market and will probaly be a threat to future designs as well. while its dated technology is going the way of the caveman, its still an awesome quad and a blast to ride. however, like it or not, thumpers are here to stay and no amount of b!tching will change that.

Motomanvin329
07-03-2004, 11:17 PM
lol true but i like to ***** :D i just dont like four strokes

addictedtomud
07-04-2004, 12:34 PM
Amen, Pappy!! You hit the nail on the head. ;)
Kyle

Roostin250R
07-05-2004, 06:47 AM
Nothing against the new 4 strokes but a properly set up 310 or 330R will absolutely smoke a TRX or YFZ even if they are modded. Rider ability plays a huge roll.

skidaddyjr
07-05-2004, 12:45 PM
I have a CT 310 on my 88'R and it's not even fun to ride with anything but other R's , seriously it's like playing against the new 450's honda and yamy's with pipes and cams!I'm probably putting a honda cylinder back on mine to spark up the competition a little and make it fun.The new fourstrokes are nice if they can get some more aftermarket goodies on the market for them, would be better running against R' of the day.I do ride XC mainly, I know you think I'm full of it,but I hearing R's getting smoked by anything ,Usually the R's getting beat are ones somebodies just bought and doesnt know how jet it or are a bunch junk parts piled together to get a cuple grand out of. From my dealings with these 450's the yamy seems to have the most potential to compete.

twisted threads
07-05-2004, 12:50 PM
Well I guess I will put my $.02 in on this one......

Its hard to say which quad I like better the 4 stroke or 2 stroke.
In the dirt I would take my 4 stroke over a two stroke because there easy to ride and they get the power to the ground better. For the sand my R will wax any 4 stroke in a strait line (it should)but if we are riding the trails really hard at the dunes I think I would be just as fast in the end on one of my 4 strokes then my 2 stroke.


first off, a stock 86,87,88 or 89 trx250r will get its *** waxed by a stock YFZ or TRX450R.

TRUE!!! 100% not even close. Even a stock cylinder piped 250r wouldn't hold its own against a piped 450r or yfz450. Thats just the way it is, I have seen it tons of times.

JHF219
07-05-2004, 07:17 PM
I swapped from a Banshee to my 250R my r got stolen and my first choice was going to be a yz4fiddy motor the YFZ has a snap to it kinda like a 2 stroke that is the reason i would choose the YFZ if any 4 stroke on the market could be compared to a 2 stroke it would be that motor it has insane acceleration. Unfortunetly times are pushing to the new 4 strokes and yes i must admit im buying one. not because i want to but because its seeming like there are no 2 stroke classes at the local tracks anymore.

Now to answer the question at hand. My 250R is stock cylinder with a PC pipe airbox lid removed and nothing else no reed valves or anything i run the intermediate class and my last 2 races all that was on the gate was the new 450s guess what ladies and gentleman. i finished second both nights its not that the YFZ was that much faster i was just outta shape. i was able to hold off 15 other riders in my class with the OLD R so in my honest opinion the OLD R doesnt have any issues hanging with the new breed of quads. now in a straight line i get beat by about 4 quad lengths but all i would have to do is change sprockets and im sure it would be hella closer !!

seven
07-05-2004, 07:55 PM
You are talking rider ability not about the quad. And you said it, In a strait line you are getting beat by 4-5 lengths.

LT250Racer609
07-05-2004, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by twisted threads
Well I guess I will put my $.02 in on this one......

Its hard to say which quad I like better the 4 stroke or 2 stroke.
In the dirt I would take my 4 stroke over a two stroke because there easy to ride and they get the power to the ground better. For the sand my R will wax any 4 stroke in a strait line (it should)but if we are riding the trails really hard at the dunes I think I would be just as fast in the end on one of my 4 strokes then my 2 stroke.



TRUE!!! 100% not even close. Even a stock cylinder piped 250r wouldn't hold its own against a piped 450r or yfz450. Thats just the way it is, I have seen it tons of times.



ok i will do this again but space it out so you people know whats going on...

my father...

bought a stock 250R with just a pipe, and silencer...

i (ME) own a 450R w/ HRC kit....

MY FATHERS 250R...KILLS IT

got it people?

Pappy
07-05-2004, 10:40 PM
oh jeez...and expert:p

you got it people:devil:

im so sorry , i dont get out much to see the new quads in action:o what was i thinking:confused:

kwatts400
07-05-2004, 11:05 PM
I forgot about this one.

I have an '89 250r with a pipe, 39mm carb, k&n filter, & jetted. I also have a 450r (all stock except for a 13t front sprocket), and my 450r wins over the 250r in the drags every time.

I don't want to take away from the 250r, but in the drags, the 450r will beat it.

Knips178
07-07-2004, 12:00 PM
Ditto, I have a stock bore and stroke 250r with pipe, carb and porting. When I race my cousin's stock 450r against my 250r the 450 wins by 4quad lengths everytime. I'm in the process of getting an LRD310 kit so we'll see what happens after that. ;)

kwatts400
07-07-2004, 01:53 PM
The 2 guys I ride with both have 250r's. One has the 310 kit, it is close, but I usually edge him out. The other has a 330 on his, and he can flat out smoke me.

twisted threads
07-07-2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by LT250Racer609
ok i will do this again but space it out so you people know whats going on...

my father...

bought a stock 250R with just a pipe, and silencer...

i (ME) own a 450R w/ HRC kit....

MY FATHERS 250R...KILLS IT

got it people?

SHIFT TO 5th!! :rolleyes:

Trust me I know what im talking about.... my buddy has a ported, piped, 39mm carb reeds on his 250r and my other buddy has a HRC/LRD piped 450r and the 450r will SPANK it.


You are talking rider ability not about the quad. And you said it, In a strait line you are getting beat by 4-5 lengths. I agree.....JHForman250r your just putting the spank on them:macho Im talking drag racing.:cool:

lil400exman
07-10-2004, 11:31 AM
i am sorry but everyone around here must be slugs cause my 265R with a heavy port whips every yfz and 450R. considering my engine builders engines waxes even a full sparks 450R. its rider and setup. when i get to ride my R i have no trouble whooping up on em. i bought it for 3grand roughly did gusseting some PEP shocks (fron and rear) nerfs etc put roughly 2-3 grand in it and really do well in almost every type of riding except TT or flattrack. then if i put swaybars and tires in and a little practice i could whoop em.

Knips178
07-12-2004, 08:03 AM
what sort of 265 setup is it? standard cylinder with overbore and race porting? carb, exhaust setup?

XCredrider
07-13-2004, 12:48 PM
if you guys want 2 stroke like power from a four stroke, the closest you will get is a cannondale speed. **cking fast :eek:. Closest thing to a 250r there will ever be. It handled(sp) like one and it had really snappy power, but still not a 2 stroke. If you have ridden one you know what im talking about.

lil400exman
07-13-2004, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Knips178
what sort of 265 setup is it? standard cylinder with overbore and race porting? carb, exhaust setup?
ummm a NPRD race port (best port job i have ever seen, not partial) old RAD valve (like the new FTZ style) carbon reeds 220 at the head FMF fatty pipe (old style w/o bend same as TRX5) and a airstryker.also its a stock cylinder and the head was re-worked. also on a K&N filter. even guys that race CRF race bikes (ride for hondaand yamaha of troy) cant get over how fast she runs!:eek2:

roostin_dale
07-13-2004, 04:34 PM
I didnt read the other posts so someone may have said something similar...

There is a guy at my local track (Casey, Illinois GNC track)..with a 330 PV motor. The rest of the A class is decked out YFZ's 450r's...every race the guy enters he will win...

Basically if you can ride, have the bike set-up right....you can beat all of todays quads...

wilkin250r
07-13-2004, 04:40 PM
The 450s are replacing the mighty 250r, you can't deny that. But the 250r is a long way away from dead and obsolete.

I think the major difference with the 250r is the powerband characteristics. On a 4-stroke, when you increase the power you get power everywhere. Sure, a cam will change the curve, but it's not a huge drastic change. You still have lots of low-end grunt simply because of the 4-stroke design. With the 250r, you get radically different power curves based on your porting and pipe. Lots of low end power means lousy top end, and vice-versa. So while a YFZ makes a great "all-around" quad, the 250r has to really be dedicated to shine.

You can easily build a stock-bore 250r to whoop up on a YFZ in a sand drag, but there is no way that same 250r will now hang with the YFZ on the MX track. Likewise, you can build a very nice MX 250r to hang with the newer YFZ on the MX track, but now that same 250r will fall short on a flattrack or desert race.

Now, when you increase the bore to 310 or 330 (if done properly) then it should spank the YFZ in any one particular area, and still hang very well in other areas. But then again, the 310 can't legally race in the 250 class.

addictedtomud
07-13-2004, 07:57 PM
wilkin250r, does the advent of the powervalve equalize this problem?

Kyle

250rmike
07-14-2004, 07:44 PM
i have a z400 a 250r and a piped and mapped cannible and the z is good linear power but compared to the r its nothing. but the cannondale is crazy fast even compared to the r. the r isnt crazy built but it does have some work done the cannondale startes pulling all of a sudden like the r but it just doesnt stop pulling when the r does. it begs to be driven like a 2 stroke. i love em both but i think 4 strokes are better and i have only ridden 2 strokes up until this year when i bought the z. ilike the fact that the newer 4 strokes have the same hp numbers as the r's but they have more torque and can pull better up hills

wilkin250r
07-15-2004, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by addictedtomud
wilkin250r, does the advent of the powervalve equalize this problem?

Kyle

It does to a small extent. The powervalve will smooth the powerband and give you slightly more low-end power, which will make a high-rev motor more forgiving, but it still doesn't give you the low-end that 4-strokes have. You still have a high-rev or low-end motor, which is mainly determined by the pipe.

Like the example I used above, imagine a 250r motor on the stock bore. With a wild port job and all other goodies, it will easily beat a 450 in a drag race, but that same motor would be terrible on an MX track. Add a powervalve to the mix and you get a little more low-end power and a smoother powerband, which will improve it's performance on the track, but it's still not as good as the 4-stroke.

So, will the powervalve improve the situation? Yes.

Does it completely equalize the playing field? No.

exrider44
08-04-2004, 03:22 PM
Most 250r's arent stock. A stock 450r will spank a stock 250r. What about putting a big bore kit like a 570 kit on the 450r that wont spank a modded 250r? I dont think anyone on here has done that yet. Plus the 250r has many years of aftermarket parts out . Give it time both the yamie and the new R will prob be sicker bikes as the years go on and as more companies produce aftermarket parts

redroost85
08-04-2004, 05:37 PM
Locally, the R's still hold their own...maybe more so nowadays the rider is the difference. But in the open classes, the R's are still near the front over the hybrids and production 450's.

hellbound250r
08-12-2004, 01:51 PM
I can see the arguement between every1 about this subject, but there are so many different variables between these machines that it is hard to compare.-gearing/tire size,rider weight,motor mods,etc. I race a baldwin built 250R at the local track with many competative yfz's and 450R's. Besides motor work the rest of my machine is STOCK, a-arms, axle, frame, swingarm, and I can still walk right past guys with heavily modded 450's. Its not all the machine, a lot of it is rider input and skill to run fast. Put me on one of these modded 450's and i bet i could run better lap times with it. Throw some more up to date suspension in my R and no 450 would even come close.

exrider44
08-25-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by hellbound250r
I can see the arguement between every1 about this subject, but there are so many different variables between these machines that it is hard to compare.-gearing/tire size,rider weight,motor mods,etc. I race a baldwin built 250R at the local track with many competative yfz's and 450R's. Besides motor work the rest of my machine is STOCK, a-arms, axle, frame, swingarm, and I can still walk right past guys with heavily modded 450's. Its not all the machine, a lot of it is rider input and skill to run fast. Put me on one of these modded 450's and i bet i could run better lap times with it. Throw some more up to date suspension in my R and no 450 would even come close.

That makes no sense. It is alot to do with the rider. But what your saying is put you on a modded 450 and you can run better lap times with it. Then you say if you put suspension on your 250 you can walk all over the 450. The 450r is faster stock so if thats the case you should be faster on that stock vs stock. Nobody gives the new 450r enough credit. The 250r is a great bike dont get me wrong but Im sure in years to come the quads are just gonna be better and better.