Built 416EX vs. TRX450R

[04'400ex'er]

I have a delimma. I want a faster machine. One that performs better all around. I figure to get the power equivlant and suspension equivalant, I will have more money in the 400 than a 450R.
Should I keep the 400 and spend the money on peps and a national kit, or sell it and add $1500-$2000 on a 450R. :rolleyes:

[Chanman420q]

ill let you know in about 4 days how my cammed, piped 416 dos against a 450 with the HRC end cap

[Matt400ex_17]

i would get the 450r i raced my brother he was on the 450 and i was on the 400 granted i dont have the 416 kit but my bikes pretty nice and my bro has like 75 lbs on me and he smoked me plus im twice the rider the 400 had a lil bit more go in corners and right at the start but on my track i have like a 150 yd drag and he would just destroy me through there im suppose to have a 426 national kit on the 400 in july then a lrd stage one on the 450 so ill retest it then

[HondaMan222]

i can take stockers, and ones with pipes are close, spend money on the 400, there are to many 450's around, or go get a YFZ.....

[hondarider2006]

Originally posted by Chanman420q
ill let you know in about 4 days how my cammed, piped 416 dos against a 450 with the HRC end cap


I will be racing a 450 this coming weekend also, that is if my motor is done in time. I will also let you know how it went:)

[seven]

If you do the port work,426 and a cam you will be real close or beat him.

[Dupontster]

I raced a stock yfz 450 and I beat him by almost 3 feet. I didn't believe it at first so we raced again and I still beat him. I have a Ross High compression 11.1 416 kit and a stage 2 hotcam. I think the boy with the 450 can't ride it all that good.

Get a stroker...:macho

[Doibugu2]

Rico what is the 450 stroker from GT? Is it a 440 stroked to 450 or what?

[ExRacer02]

My bike is a 416 and I built it pretty much like the sparks national kit. 12:1 JE, carillo rod, x-6 pipe, FCR carb, ported head, swirl polished oversized valves, stiffer valve springs, shortned valve guides, sparks mid range cam, cdi box and all the other little stuff. My buddies just got new 450s. One got the honda and the other got the yamaha. The honda has a full sparks pipe, air filter and jet kit. The yamaha has a full GYTR pipe, air filter jet kit and had his cam timing retarted to the dirtbikes timing. We all lined up and ran them down the road one day. My 416 and the YFZ beat the honda by about 4 quad lengths. The yamaha was right on my rear wheel. So if I were you I would get the YFZ I have a lot of money in my bike and I barely beat him. I dont think anything will be able to touch the YFZ's once you build them, and you will have to put a lot of money and time in a 400ex to keep up with them. The 400's are just getting out dated by the new 450s.

Originally posted by Doibugu2
Rico what is the 450 stroker from GT? Is it a 440 stroked to 450 or what?

400EX / 450 Stroker

Basic kit:

Engine labor, machining, gaskets, stroke crank, custom 87mm piston with relocated wrist pin hole, for the extra stroke, camshaft.
$1500.00

Deluxe kit:

Basic kit, Full race exhaust, 41mm FCR carb, CDI, Race porting, and 8 plate clutch kit.

$3000.00

[HondaMan222]

Originally posted by Rico
Get a stroker...:macho

my bike can beat 440 strokers, not by much, but it can, in the sand anyways....

Originally posted by HondaMan222
my bike can beat 440 strokers, not by much, but it can, in the sand anyways....

IF it's the motor in your sig it won't hang with GT thunders stroker...:cool:

[86atc250r]

Built 4xxEX vs 450R/YFZ

Depends on what you're looking for....

Yes, a nicely built up 416EX can be setup to run with a 450R or YFZ as far as acceleration.

However - there is much more to an engine than it's performance in a drag race.

You will never get the overall performance out of a 400EX engine as what's available from a mildly modified YFZ or 450R. Yes, it will keep up in a drag, but it won't have the explosive throttle response, the extremely broad torque curve, or upper RPM power development that these new 4 strokes have (at least not without spending a lot more money than you should, trying to chase these new quads ;))

So - you have to decide what you're wanting out of an engine.

Are you just wanting to keep up in a drag race - or are you wanting the overall performance advantages that don't necessarily show up in a drag race?

[quadmxracer]

86atc250R has a good point. I agree.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by 86atc250r


You will never get the overall performance out of a 400EX engine as what's available from a mildly modified YFZ or 450R. Yes, it will keep up in a drag, but it won't have the explosive throttle response, the extremely broad torque curve, or upper RPM power development that these new 4 strokes have (at least not without spending a lot more money than you should, trying to chase these new quads ;))

Hmm, I don't know about that. I think its entirely possible for a highly modified 400EX to be equal or even better than a mildly-modified 450. It may come down to definition of "mildly-modified". Like the YFZ, for example, I would say mildly modified would be exhaust, intake, and the exhaust cam timing.

I think a properly built 400EX, big bore, possibly a stroker, running high-compression, port job, aggressive cam, and carburetor would easily perform just as well as a mildly modified 450, probably better. All these modifications were standard on any pro quad just three years ago before the creation of the "stock class". At this point, you are probably sacrificing reliablity in the 400EX, but we aren't arguing reliability.

But then again, as Rico stated, and you alluded to, this would be over $3000 in upgrades to a 400EX, compared to a few hundred dollars in modifications to the 450. And again, this is comparing highly modified to mildly modified. If you want to put $3000 into the YFZ engine, there would be no comparison to speak of.

So, is it possible? I say yes, certainly. Is it wise? That's another debate...:)

[86atc250r]

You're not reading what I'm saying....

Yes, it's easily possible for a built 400EX based engine to "run with" a mild or even aggressive 450R/YFZ.


I have a 416EX that will run real close to my 450R or a typically modded YFZ in a 300' drag race or even a 1/4 mile pavement drag - but when you ride my 450R or a YFZ, then you ride my 416EX, the other differences are immediately clear.

It's MUCH more difficult to reproduce the rest of the power delivery characteristics of a YFZ or 450R from an "old school" 4 stroke design. This is also another reason that these new 4 strokes are starting to win over die hard 2 stroke fans --- useable power over a very wide range.

The straight line acceleration part is easy - the rest is difficult.

That said, nothing is impossible ---- however, you have to weigh the practicality of spending enough cash to try to duplicate something that's already out there and widely available.

For instance, is it worth spending thousands of dollars to try to duplicate or exceed the power over the spread they produce, the almost infinite top end, the overall torque -- and still maintain a decent amount of reliability?

Short answer - no.

However - if all you're looking for is to run with these new quads in a straight line, then yes - it can be done for a halfway reasonable cost.

I'm not sure how much experience you have with this new breed of 4 stroke - but it's difficult to explain unless you've ridden these engines & know what they're about.

[Quadzilla]

I agree with 86. I have a pretty fast 416, close to a piped YFZ in a straight line drag if they are using same size tires and similar gearing, etc. It still does not feel as strong as the YFZ throught the powerband, nor is the delivery as abrupt. Just my humble opinion...

[nacs400ex]

Im with Wilkin. :macho

[PEPwalshZ440]

some 440exs don't even stand a chance against an R. Sell the EX and get an R.
Mike

[Evan400ex]

My 416 barely pulled a stock 450R at the drag strip last weekend. A YFZ beat me by 4 bike lengths that had the cam mod, and pipe. I say go with the YFZ, you will spending alot of money to get your 400 up to par with a 450.

[450ex]

once again it comes down to money

if i were you i would keep the 400ex unless
you have money at your disposal

if you buy a 450r your out at least 6500 dollars

thats a bad***** 400ex to me

ive had both

ive seen many 400exs smoke 450rs on the track and on the strip

BUT ive seen a lot more 450r smoke 400exs

bottom line

full tilt 400ex beats 450r

full tilt 450r beats every thing

ha ha

[the-ex-files]

Good point 450EX
full tilt 450r beats every thing

[04'400ex'er]

The YFZ is no option. I am a Honda man. A delarship in ok near me buys in wholesale and has cheap *** prices. I know I can get a new 450r for $6000. I am thinking around here, I can get at least $4000-4500 for my machine with the aftermarkets onn it. Im thinkin that for the mods I would need for susp. and motor to equal the 450, I would quite easily excess $6000. And, I still dont have a 450r.So as soon as daddy gets out of the shock of me wantin somethin newer than the ex and lets me buy my own, I'll have a TRX. But it is gonna take some brown nozzin. Wilkin, I need one of your speeches for this. Any sugg. will be accepted:p