Curtis Sparks 416 National or TC 416 National?

[04'400ex'er]

I am looking to get a 416 kit soon. Which of the 2 have the most reliability? Which is most powerful on the Dyno?

[roostin_dale]

I would go for the Sparks...he builds some SWEET stuff! I think they would be nearly equal on the dyno.

Also, im not posotive, but I think TC has a very long turn around time?

[Silverfox@C&DRacing]

or you could save yourself some money and do it yourself (that is if you like or feel comfortable working on the motor). The parts can be bought between $290- and up depending on what you want, the only other cost would be the machine work and if you are doing a port and polish the cost for that.

I am only making a suggestion, those other companies are nice if you don't want to work on it yourself, or send it to me and I will spice it up for ya :D

[TC426EX]

You know me.... TC all the way man! What a hard decision though!!! Sparks is famous for the 416 kit, but BOTH do excellent work. I really couldnt tell you what to do but call both and get a quote. TC would probably reccomend the 425 bore motor like mine since he does more of those than anything, but he also does a fair amount of 416's. Both Curtis and Tom's porting are killer, but I like the TC cams better. I think TC could offer you more options with the motor than Sparks like lightened flywheel and some of the extra stuff listed in my sig and might even be a bit cheaper. I would call both of them and let them give you some options and expectations and then make a decision from there. All I know is that I love my TC work and will be calling Tom to do my CRF motor when I drop that in next year. I know the Sparks motors are fast and I dont have any dynos for them, but my motor kit on a dyno put out 48hp. I believe the 416 would put out HP somewhere in the low to mid 40's as well if you did some of the extra stuff like oversized valves, carb, match the ports on the carb boot, lighten the flywheel and other little extras like that. Even without those mods, a standard 416 kit from either of them will tear some major ***.....PM me if you need contact info for either of them I have done business with both...

[Giz400ex]

Originally posted by roostin_dale
I would go for the Sparks...he builds some SWEET stuff! I think they would be nearly equal on the dyno.

Also, im not posotive, but I think TC has a very long turn around time? Tom is terrible for a turn around time!! Just about the worst I've seen but I have heard that CS isn't all that great either. From experience, TC's time is pretty bad! All I can say is wait until the end of fall and make it a winter thing or save some time, order the stuff and do it yourself!

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by Giz400ex
Tom is terrible for a turn around time!! Just about the worst I've seen but I have heard that CS isn't all that great either. From experience, TC's time is pretty bad! All I can say is wait until the end of fall and make it a winter thing or save some time, order the stuff and do it yourself!


he better not take too long to ship out a cam. i just ordered a cam from him and i am hoping to have it in a week.

[Giz400ex]

Originally posted by cals400ex
he better not take too long to ship out a cam. i just ordered a cam from him and i am hoping to have it in a week. I would be surprised if you get it less than 4 weeks!! It took me almost 4 months to get a piston! Don't get me wrong, he's a super nice guy and knows his **** and he does everything himself but service is the pits!!! I hope you get it sooner than but my buddy is having him do some motor work on his 350x and Tom's had it since the mid of Feb and still hasn't recieved the motor back yet, so he's going for 5 months. Also, its not like we weren't on him, because we were!!! calling and calling and now, still calling:(

[the-ex-files]

Sparks has always been known to make the 400EX FLY... I say go Sparks.

[TC426EX]

I dunno about 4 weeks on a cam man. Tom did my whole motor in about a month. MY friend ordered a 926 cam from him at the beginning of summer last year and had it a week and a half later. Another friend of mine just sent his head on his CRF 450 motor to Tom to get it ported out and he had it back within 2 1/2 weeks. I dunno what the deal is, Im not doubting your story, but me and my buddies have had nothing but good experiences with him.

[Chanman420q]

Sparks and TC are like PEP when ur the best of the best everyones gunna want you and your gunna get whomped with work.

[westcoastmxer]

i say tc racing cuzz they j/the bomb(wen i put there exhaust on it had like 5 times the power of my ol fmf exhaust!)i j/ordered one of toms cams 4 my 300 yesterday cuzz i figured wen u go into the motor go w/the best even tho it was more money than the webcam..he told me it would be here wednesday and i ordered it monday:macho

Send it to GT thunder and get the same HP numbers as both the TC and sparks 416 kits and you'll get it back before your kids finish college...:rolleyes:

[ExRacer02]

I would go with the sparks thats what I have in mine except me and my dad built it we just order all sparks stuff this is what I would get. x-6 pipe, 39mm FCR carb, 12:1 JE piston, aggersive drop in cam or the full race but you need stiffer valve springs, hard faced rockers, and shortned valve guides for the full race cam. Sparks degree key, cdi box, air filter and ring, sparks clutches and a carillo rod for extra reliablity. This is what I have done to my bike plus some port work and it runs strong and is very reliable. The sparks 416 kit is a hard running motor that revs quicker than a lot of other 416's and 440's. So best of luck with your motor.

[R3Concepts]

ExRacer02 you dont use a Sparks degree key on a built motor..big NO NO. I say both are bad *** motor builders but Id go with Sparks.. we all know who rules the 4 stroke wars at Glamis. Sparks 416 on alky handed it to the Trinity 686 raptor by 5 bike lenghts...ouch. But if you go Sparks, have fun dealing with Scott or Jeff, cause CS does NOT get on the phone.

[UglyMotha™]

Originally posted by R3Concepts426ex
ExRacer02 you dont use a Sparks degree key on a built motor..big NO NO.




i see your not speaking from experience, that's for sure :o

[R3Concepts]

Advanced timing more heat, heat bad.

[UglyMotha™]

well, my motor is worked pretty good and i'm running the key and i can tell you that my motor is running no hotter than a stocker

there is also a worked 502 on the boards that is also running the advanced key with no probs


like i said your just speaking from what you've heard, yes you can cook the motor with a key but not if you take the extra precautions

[Colby@C&DRacing]

The 416 kits are easy to do and not over priced. If you do not want to do the work yourself sent it to me I will put my motors up against anyone of the other builders and I don't over charge. I had an out of state customer come in the other day and was very happy with the raptor I built him about six months ago. I Put a C&D Racing 686 kit with my head work and stg 2 hot cam in it and he said he was trading drag race wins with a fully sparks built 690 raptor at the dunes. IF you want to compare prices send me a PM.

[R3Concepts]

Im sure the C&D raptor is fast..no flame intended here but, there was NOTHING coming close to the Sparks 690 that they had at the 4 stroke wars. They were handing it to other 4 strokes by 15 bike lenghts, then started racing the stroker alky banshees and handing it to them... I think everyone was in aww. But at the dunes its all rider, he who can get through the whoops fastest wins.

[Colby@C&DRacing]

Ya I have seen alot of the fourstroke wars stuff. THey put a 100lb girl or kid on the bike and drag race. You also don't think that was his standard 690 kit that you can buy is it.:eek2: . I never hold back for a customer I put everything into a motor for a customer than I do for myself

[skemp]

I will say one thing here... Building a motor in your driveway and sending your motor to be built by some of the best in the business are two very different things. Sure, both will make you happy, but sometimes paying more and waiting a little longer can yield some worthwhile results. Experience and expertise really do pay because it is the little things that count. ;)

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by skemp
I will say one thing here... Building a motor in your driveway and sending your motor to be built by some of the best in the business are two very different things. Sure, both will make you happy, but sometimes paying more and waiting a little longer can yield some worthwhile results. Experience and expertise really do pay because it is the little things that count. ;)

I Agree!!!! They are motor builders for pros because they know how to make them faster than the rest. A XC racing buddy of mine recently got 416 built by a non motor builder local shop. My stock piped 2001 400ex beats him every time! And he weighs nearly 100lb less than me!
GO WITH THE PROS!!!!!!! ;)

[foleyit]

I'm running a CS 416 kit now for about 9 mos, and I am real happy with the motor's performance. I bought the parts from them and did everything myself with the help of some good friends. :D and heck if it still isn't running real strong.

Unfortunately, CS isn't accepting any motors for a while b/c they are swamped.

[RodSmith32]

Originally posted by R3Concepts426ex
Im sure the C&D raptor is fast..no flame intended here but, there was NOTHING coming close to the Sparks 690 that they had at the 4 stroke wars. They were handing it to other 4 strokes by 15 bike lenghts, then started racing the stroker alky banshees and handing it to them... I think everyone was in aww. But at the dunes its all rider, he who can get through the whoops fastest wins.

I don't know what races you were watching but the sparks raptor only won by half a bike against a local builders bike. I love fourstrokes as much as the next but the raptor was not beating "stroker alky banshees". I ride Gordon's wells usually and would like to meet up and ride with you sometime. I want to see your 426 that spanks 440's/465's :rolleyes:

[bradley300]

Originally posted by Rico
Send it to GT thunder and get the same HP numbers as both the TC and sparks 416 kits and you'll get it back before your kids finish college...:rolleyes:

yep, i was gonna say the same thing, you'll also still be able to pay for your kids college, laz hs some of the best prices around

[R3Concepts]

I was at the 4 stroke wars at Glamis, and I believe you are referring to the Kenz Cycle Tech raptor. And YES the Sparks 690 was beating every other 4 stroke out there. Also they did beat an alky banshee, it was a 420. And I ride at GW alot and Id love to meet up with you, also, it doesnt say anywhere that my 426 spanks 440s or 465s. But I will say Ive been going to the dunes for 20 yrs, and my all aftermarket 426 will hold its own out there, especially in the whoops and carving the bowls.