Free Sag or Ride Height?

[infantry317]

I've read on here that a 400ex shock have the ride height set at 8.5 inches front and rear for racing. Now I read in ATV Sport that Elka says set your shocks free sag to 1".

Which is it?! Free Sag or Ride Height? :confused:

[86atc250r]

I don't know what was up with that goofy artical in ATV sport on "Free Sag", but using their "Tip":

With a 375lbs quad only sagging the suspension 1", that means a 175lbs rider will only sag it about 1/2" more - meaning that a quad with 11" of frame to ground clearance when topped out (about 9~9.5" suspension travel) will sit at a frame height of 9.5" --- not good...

Set your ride height with yourself on the quad. For XC start at around 8" - play around with lower or higher setups to see what you like from there.

[cdalejef]

8.5" from bottom of the frame to the ground is what we set our bikes at.

[boogiechile]

sag used to mean more than it does now. With longer travel and zps shocks the sag has to be more to get the ride height correct. Ride height is what is important. With a long travel allmost all the extra travel goes into droop. So if you use a certain amount or even a percentage of the travel as a sag measurement you will have a high ride. The very reason for zps shocks is to run more sag to lower the ride height. Long travel adds to the need for additional sag.

8.5 inches sounds good for xc but you may want to go lower if you mx. 7.5 is good for mx.

[PEPwalshZ440]

mines at freaking 6.5...go figure haha

[dawnchris]

Ya know, thats one thing I have a hard time understanding. If you set your suspension for a certain ride height from the ground up, you would have different setup with different size tires. Meaning that if you went from 20 to 22in. tires, you would have to lower the ride height, which would affect suspension ride quality. It would have to ride lower in the stroke, possibly getting into a different portion of valving. It seems like that wouldn't be desirable, especially if the setup was "perfect" at the previous ride height.

[86atc250r]

ATVs do not have position sensitive valving so ride height will not affect valving.

You are correct though - changing tire size will change where the suspension needs to sit and changes travel location in the chassis.

However - if you're making drastic tire size changes like you listed above - you likely need to change your suspension setup anyhow.

If you have the "Perfect" setup for a given tire height --- obviously it's going to be thrown off by making a big change in tire size.

[dawnchris]

I actually do change back and forth from 20- 22's. 20's most of the time, 22's for the extra rocky races. I don't change the ride height, though I do add a click of compression, and speed the rebound up slightly to compensate for tire weight. If my bike with 20's on it has approx. 3 inches of up travel at set ride height, going to the 22's, and resetting the ride height would have me having only about 2 inches of up travel. Quite a loss.

[86atc250r]

3 inches of up travel at set ride height, going to the 22's, and resetting the ride height would have me having only about 2 inches of up travel. Quite a loss.

:confused:
You would have 4" up travel with the larger tires to maintain a given ride height.

For things to really be "right" you need to move the travel around in the chassis which is generally not easy --- currently you're making compromises when you change tire size.... You just have to decide which compromise you want to make.

[Tommy 17]

21 front and 20 rears elka told me to set my ride heigh at 8.5 front and 8.25 in the rear from frame to the ground

[dawnchris]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
3 inches of up travel at set ride height, going to the 22's, and resetting the ride height would have me having only about 2 inches of up travel. Quite a loss.

:confused:
You would have 4" up travel with the larger tires to maintain a given ride height.

For things to really be "right" you need to move the travel around in the chassis which is generally not easy --- currently you're making compromises when you change tire size.... You just have to decide which compromise you want to make.

I don't see what you mean. By "up travel", I mean how much wheel travel upwards (the tire going up). Another way of saying it is at regular height with 20's, the rear of the quad can be pushed down 3 inches. If I change to 22's, and readjust to the same ride height, I now can only push the quad down 2 inches before it bottoms, since I've already lowered it another inch.
You'll have to explain the "move the travel around in the chassis, I don't follow. Plus, what compromises am I making by changing tire size. (I'm not challenging your knowledge here, I'm asking questions cause I'de like more info on setup.)

[86atc250r]

Ahh - got our ups and downs confused...

Anyhow - you've only got 3" of travel before bottomming when you run 20" tires at your chosen ride height? :eek2:

I typically run about 8" of frame to gnd clearance on my machine for the woods.

My bottommed out frame height with 22" fronts and 20" rears is 1.5"(both front and rear) - meaning I've got about 6.5" travel from my static ride height.

My fully exteneded frame height is about 11" - meaning I've got about 3" of "sag" when I'm sitting on the quad.

If I were to change tire height, I would need to adjust my shock mount locations (or change shocks) to keep these numbers.

If I kept everything the same & only changed tires, then I am making a compromise -

I can either:

A.) Leave ride height alone, giving the quad a higher center of gravity, but keeping the travel proportions the same

B.) Lower my ride height back to my normal level, but the compromise would be less travel before bottomming.

[dawnchris]

The 3in. was just for comparisons sake. I really have no idea what the travel is.
Just as you said, to adjust the shock ride height to compensate for tire height would be a comprimise. Thats what I was getting at when I mentioned I couldn't understand why a manufacturer will say to set ride hieght at a particular setting, with no mention of tire height. You could be running anything from 18-22 in tires, yet they say to set it at about 8.5 inches. Doesn't seem to make sense to me.

[Mikey]

Originally posted by infantry317
I've read on here that a 400ex shock have the ride height set at 8.5 inches front and rear for racing. Now I read in ATV Sport that Elka says set your shocks free sag to 1".

Which is it?! Free Sag or Ride Height? :confused:

They are two different things. Ride height is set at 8-8.5" with the preload rings. Free sag is the measurement taken from jacking the bike up until the wheels are just touching the ground and taking a measurement from a fixed point such as the grab bar to the ground. Next let the jack down and take a measurement using the same points. The difference between the two is "free sag". Do it front and rear on level ground.

[86atc250r]

Yep, that little editorial in ATV Sport left me confused as well, didn't make much sense.

[redrunner]

I just got a set of front elkas and my questions are;

Is sag a preference thing or pre determined?
Is the ride height set with you on the quad?
Anyone got good heights for a 300 on trails? 22's front and back right now and I got a rappy rear with some adjustment available.

[86atc250r]

In the neighborhood of 8" frame to ground clearance works well for woods racing- adjust up or down according to preference.


Yes, set ride height with you on the quad.

[redrunner]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
In the neighborhood of 8" frame to ground clearance works well for woods racing- adjust up or down according to preference.


Yes, set ride height with you on the quad.

[Woodsrider]

Originally posted by redrunner
I just got a set of front elkas and my questions are;

Is sag a preference thing or pre determined?
Is the ride height set with you on the quad?
Anyone got good heights for a 300 on trails? 22's front and back right now and I got a rappy rear with some adjustment available.

Elka reccommends the following in the owners manual for ride hights(frame to ground clearance):

MX between 7.5 and 9 inches
XC between 8.5 and 10 inches
Recreational trail riding between 9 and 10 inches.

I set mine at 9.25 in the front and the rear at just over 9.0. Im no expert, but for trail riding, and hitting the big GP courses it seems to be a really good set up.