GREAT READ ( A reason to vote against the democrats)

[310Rduner]

This is a pretty long read, but I found the information in it to make perfect sense with what is going on. Gives a good understanding of the islamic jihad, and the shiites and wahabi freaks. Also a great explanation of why we can't abandon our presence in the middle east, or leave iraq.


The dictionary definition of CALIPH, is:

A leader of an Islamic polity, regarded as a successor of Muhammad and by tradition always male, and a CALIPHATE is the office or jurisdiction of a caliph.

THE CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS AND THE GREAT CALIPHATE by Larry Abraham, January 29, 2004 President Bush and his administration spokesmen are not telling the American people what they really need to know about this "war." If they don't do that between now and November it may cost them the election.

The war against terror did not begin on September 11, 2001, nor will it end with the peaceful transition to civilian authority in Iraq, whenever that may be. In fact, Iraq is but a footnote in the bigger context of this encounter, but an important one none the less.

This war is what the Jihadists themselves are calling the "Third Great Jihad." They are operating within the framework of a time line which reaches back to the very creation of Islam in the seventh century and are presently attempting to recreate the dynamics which gave rise to the religion in the first two hundred years of its existence.

No religion in history grew as fast, in its infancy, and the reasons for the initial growth of Islam are not hard to explain when you understand what the world was like at the time of Muhammad's death in 632 AD. Remember that the Western Roman Empire was in ruins and the Eastern Empire, based in Constantinople, was trying desperately to keep the power of its early grandeur while transitioning to Christianity as a de facto state religion.

The costs to the average person were large as he was being required to meet the constantly rising taxes levied by the state along with the tithes coerced by the Church.

What Islam offered was the "carrot or the sword". If you became a convert, your taxes were immediately eliminated, as was your tithe.

If you didn't, you faced death. The choice was not hard for most to make, unless you were a very devoted martyr in the making. At the beginning, even the theology was not too hard for most to swallow, considering that both Jewry and Christianity were given their due by the Prophet.

There is but one God-Allah, and Muhammad is His Prophet, as was Jesus, and the pre-Christian Jewish prophets of the Torah (Old Testament). Both were called "children of the book"--the book being the Koran, which replaced both the Old and New Testaments for former Christians and Jews.

With this practical approach to spreading the "word" Islam grew like wild-fire, reaching out from the Saudi Arabian Peninsula in all directions. This early growth is what the Muslims call the "First great Jihad and it met with little resistance until Charles Martel of France, the father of Charlemagne, stopped them in the battle of Tours in France after they had firmly established Islam on the Iberian Peninsula.

This first onslaught against the West continued in various forms and at various times until Islam was finally driven out of Spain in 1492 at the battle of Granada.

The "Second great jihad" came with the Ottoman Turks. This empire succeeded in bringing about the downfall of Constantinople as a Christian stronghold and an end to Roman hegemony in all of its forms.

The Ottoman Empire was Islam's most successful expansion of territory even though the religion itself had fractured into warring sects and bitter rivalries with each claiming the ultimate truths in "the ways of the Prophet".

By 1683 the Ottomans had suffered a series of defeats on both land and sea and the final, unsuccessful attempt to capture Vienna set the stage for the collapse of any further territorial ambitions and Islam shrunk into various sheikhdoms, emir dominated principalities, and roving tribes of nomads. However, by this time a growing anti-western sentiment, blaming its internal failures on anyone but themselves, was taking hold and setting the stage for a new revival known as Wahhabism, a sect which came into full bloom under the House of Saud on the Arabian Peninsula shortly before the onset of WWI. It is this Wahhabi version of Islam which has infected the religion itself, now finding adherents in almost all branches and sects, especially the Shiites.

Wahhabiism calls for the complete and total rejection or destruction of anything and everything which is not based in the original teachings of The Prophet and finds its most glaring practice in the policies of the Afghani Taliban or the Shiite practices of the late Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran. Its Ali Pasha (Field Marshall) is now known as Osama bin Laden, the leader of the "Third Jihad", who is Wahhabi as were his 9/11 attack teams, 18 of which were also Saudi.

The strategy for this "holy war" did not begin with the planning of the destruction of the World Trade Center. It began with the toppling of the Shah of Iran back in the late 1970's. With his plans and programs to "westernize" his country, along with his close ties to the U.S. and subdued acceptance of the State of Israel, the Shah was the soft target.

Remember "America Held Hostage"?

Thanks, in large part to the hypocritical and disastrous policies of the Jimmy Carter State Department, the revolution was set into motion, the Shah was deposed, his armed forces scattered or murdered and stage one was complete. The Third Jihad now had a base of operations and the oil wealth to support its grand design or what they call the "Great Caliphate".

What this design calls for is the replacement of all secular leadership in any country with Muslim majorities. This would include, Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia, all the Emirates, Sudan, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Malaysia, Indonesia and finally what they call the "occupied territory" Israel.

As a part of this strategy, forces of the jihad will infiltrate governments and the military as a prelude to taking control, once the secular leadership is ousted or assassinated. Such was the case in Lebanon leading to the Syrian occupation and in Egypt with the murder of Anwar Sadat, along with the multiple attempts on the lives of Hussein in Jordan, Mubarak of Egypt and Musharraf in Pakistan.

Pakistan is a particular prize because of its nuclear weapons.

(Please note al Qaeda call for the Islamic-militant overthrow of Musharraf in Pakistan on March 25.

[310Rduner]

The long-range strategy of the Third Jihad counts on three strategic goals. First, the U.S. withdrawing from the region just as it did in Southeast Asia, following Vietnam. Second, taking control of the oil wealth in the Muslim countries, which would be upwards to 75% of known reserves; third, using nuclear weapons or other WMDs to annihilate Israel. A further outcome of successfully achieving these objectives would be to place the United Nations as the sole arbiter in East/West negotiations and paralyze western resistance, leading to total withdrawal from all Islamic dominated countries Evidence of the Bush Administration awareness of this plan is found in the events immediately following the 9/11 attack. The administration's first move was to shore up Pakistan and Egypt, believing that these two would be the next targets for al Qaeda, while Americans focused on the disaster in New York.

The administration also knew that the most important objective was to send a loud and clear message that the U.S. was in the region to stay, not only to shore up our allies but to send a message to the Jihadists.

The attack on Afghanistan was necessary to break-up a secure al Qaeda base of operations and put their leadership on the run or in prison.

The war in Iraq also met a very strategic necessity in that no one knew how much collaboration existed between Saddam Hussein and the master planners of the Third Jihad or Hussein's willingness to hand off WMDs to terrorist groups including the PLO in Israel.

What was known were serious indications of on-going collaboration as Saddam funneled money to families of suicide bombers attacking the Israelis and others in Kuwait.

What the U.S. needed to establish was a significant base of operations smack dab in the middle of the Islamic world, in a location which effectively cut it in half. Iraq was the ideal target for this and a host of other strategic reasons.

Leadership of various anti-American groups both here and abroad understood the vital nature of the Bush initiative and thus launched their demonstrations, world-wide, to "Stop The War". Failing this, they also laid plans to build a political campaign inside the country, with the War in Iraq as a plebiscite, using a little known politician as the thrust point--Howard Dean. This helps to explain how quickly the Radical Left moved into the Dean campaign with both people and money, creating what the clueless media called the "Dean Phenomenon".

By building on the left-wing base in the Democrat party and the "Hate Bush" crowd, the campaign has already resulted in a consensus among the aspirants, minus Joe Lieberman, to withdraw the U.S. from Iraq and turn the operation over to the U.N. And, if past is prologue, i.e., Vietnam, once the U.S. leaves it will not go back under any circumstances, possibly even the destruction of Israel.

Should George W. Bush be defeated in November we could expect to see the dominoes start to fall in the secular Islamic countries and The Clash of Civilizations, predicted several years ago by Samuel Huntington, would then become a life changing event in all of our lives.

What surprised the Jihadists following the 9/11 attack was how American sentiment mobilized around the president and a profound sense of patriotism spread across the country. They were not expecting this reaction, based on what had happened in the past, nor were they expecting the determined resolve of the President himself. I also believe this is one of the reasons we have not had any further attacks within our borders. They are content to wait, just as one of their tactical mentors; V.I. Lenin admonished..."two steps forward, one step back".

A couple additional events serve as valuable footnotes to the current circumstances we face: the destruction of the human assets factor of the CIA during the Carter presidency, presided over by the late Senator Frank Church. This fact has plagued our intelligence agencies right up to this very day with consequences which are now obvious. And, Jimmy Carter himself, the one man who must bear the bulk of the responsibility for setting the stage of the Third Jihad.

Lastly, we should not expect to see any meaningful cooperation from Western Europe, especially the French. Since failing to protect their own interests in Algeria (by turning the country over to the first of the Arab terrorists, Ammad Ben Bella), the country itself is now occupied by Islamic immigrants totaling twenty percent of the population.

We are in the battle of our lives, a battle which will go on for many years possibly even generations. If we fail to understand what we are facing or falter in the challenge of "knowing our enemy" the results will be catastrophic. Imagine a world where al Qaeda regimes control 75% of the world's oil, have at their disposal nuclear weapons, legions of willing suicide soldiers, and our national survival is dependent on the good graces of Kofi Annan and the United Nations.

There is one final footnote which may be the scariest of all. Either none of the Democrats currently leading the drive to their party's nomination are aware of the facts of the Great Caliphate and Third Jihad or they do know and they don't care so long as their power lust is satisfied. But, I can guarantee you one thing for sure: some of their most ardent supporters are aware of this and will do anything they can to bring it about.

******************End ofReport******************

Note....this was written before John Kerry had the nomination sewed up...but recent events clearly demonstrate that Kerry is going to fulfill Abraham's prediction of the Democrats calling for the UN and the French/Germans/Spain coalition to force the US out of Iraq.

We are threatened in Pakistan Ð and if Musharraf is assassinated (it's been tried several times in the past year), we can see how the militants will gain control of Pakistan's nuclear weapons, which have already spread to Iran (by a militant Islamic scientist) and if Musharraf is 'taken out' we have both Iran and Pakistan as militant Islamic power bases armed with nuclear weapons. And let's not overlook Abraham's issue about the potential for militant Islamic states who would control 75% of the world's oil.

[310Rduner]

ehh.... bumpity.

[bluebaron]

Screw this thread, any way who the hell would want that dumb *** bush for a president again, for **** sakes hes was a C student, thats not bad, BUT FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.A.:rolleyes: :mad: :grr: :huh

[MOFO]

Originally posted by bluebaron
Screw this thread, any way who the hell would want that dumb *** bush for a president again, for **** sakes hes was a C student, thats not bad, BUT FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.A.:rolleyes: :mad: :grr: :huh


go crawl back under your rock kid. I'd say stay in school but most of the trash with politics is taught in our school system.

I'd also tell you to read the entire thread, but I'm sure its beyond your reading ability.

Before you make a comment, please be informed and read the topic at hand.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by 310Rduner

There is one final footnote which may be the scariest of all. Either none of the Democrats currently leading the drive to their party's nomination are aware of the facts of the Great Caliphate and Third Jihad or they do know and they don't care so long as their power lust is satisfied. But, I can guarantee you one thing for sure: some of their most ardent supporters are aware of this and will do anything they can to bring it about.



This quote is the scariest because I'm sure most, if not all people who have a say on this do not understand everything posted above.

Great read, I learned some new things in this post.

[310Rduner]

Originally posted by MOFO
This quote is the scariest because I'm sure most, if not all people who have a say on this do not understand everything posted above.

Great read, I learned some new things in this post.

Yeah, It doesn't exactly leave a good taste in your mouth, or feeling in your stomache.

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by bluebaron
Screw this thread, any way who the hell would want that dumb *** bush for a president again, for **** sakes hes was a C student, thats not bad, BUT FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.A.:rolleyes: :mad: :grr: :huh
Idiot. I would gladly buy your plane ticket to Iraq (or anywhere in the Middle East, for that matter) if I thought you would get on the plane. You're gonna look real cute in that turbine if Kerry gets elected. Liberal POS!!

[xr50layke]

f-liberals.

[SRH]

if you vote for bush your a ****in idiot, bush is a dip****, plain and simple, hes dumbass, ...anything is better than bush! iraq is not are problem, the people there dont want us there, and hes just after oil... id go to jail before id go there if i was drafted, id defend are country if it was under attack but ill be damned to do this dip****s dirty work and die for nothing its a waste of my life and my time for someone elses **** they started for no reason and dont use 911 as an excuse either...

its sad we can be forced to go to war, were forced to sign up for the draft...forced to do everything its are right to do what we want ...were ****in born here... these laws are ****, i dont even take off my hat for the national anthem...

[310Rduner]

Originally posted by SRH
if you vote for bush your a ****in idiot, bush is a dip****, plain and simple, hes dumbass, ...anything is better than bush! iraq is not are problem, the people there dont want us there, and hes just after oil... id go to jail before id go there if i was drafted, id defend are country if it was under attack but ill be damned to do this dip****s dirty work and die for nothing its a waste of my life and my time for someone elses **** they started for no reason and dont use 911 as an excuse either...

its sad we can be forced to go to war, were forced to sign up for the draft...forced to do everything its are right to do what we want ...were ****in born here... these laws are ****, i dont even take off my hat for the national anthem...

So um.... I don't know if I'm missing some grand master plan you have here... but if we went in for oil... umm small question I have here. WTF haven't we taken it yet, and WTF are we still paying for it, DUMB*SS.


READ what I Posted.. maybe you'd understand why we CAN'T pull out. Oh wait.. My bad.. I actually thought for a second you were cabable of more advanced thoughts than *BLaH IM A WHINEY B*sh.

/rant

[SRH]

Originally posted by 310Rduner
So um.... I don't know if I'm missing some grand master plan you have here... but if we went in for oil... umm small question I have here. WTF haven't we taken it yet, and WTF are we still paying for it, DUMB*SS.


READ what I Posted.. maybe you'd understand why we CAN'T pull out. Oh wait.. My bad.. I actually thought for a second you were cabable of more advanced thoughts than *BLaH IM A WHINEY B*sh.

/rant

yeah thats a waste of time, to read, this whole iraq stuff is a bunch of lies.... we can pull out anytime, some guy cant sit down and right all that stuff, fools like u fall into it, and it helps up the approval of gwb, brain washed fools dont think for yourselves

[dirtyboy88]

well im not rich so im goin to vote demo. ;) and i hate bush , he took more days off in a month then any pres. has in a there 4yrs. DOWN WITH THE DUMB@$$!!!:devil:

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by SRH
i dont even take off my hat for the national anthem...
You can catch the same flight with the other guy. :macho
What you don't understand is that these Jihadists will not stop until every country is ruled by a fundamentalist Islamic state. What size turbine would you like? BTW, don't let me catch you at a ball game; I'll remove your hat for your ***.

[bradley300]

very informative, i also learned alot
and for you f- bush guys, i will also pay for your plane ticket, if this country sucks, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. there are plenty of people that would love to take your spot

[batgeek]

hey wait! thats the true beauty of our country...you don't have to like it's President, it's politics, or it's way of life....but we still let you live here.

you aren't jailed, exiled or OMG killed like you would if you lived elsewhere...like say....ummmm i dunno.....hrmmmmm....PRE-WAR IRAQ!

[SRH]

say this was true why not be more public, call out the democrats and everyone on it,then there is no excuse for them not to pay attention to those "facts" keeping that secretive and letting its spread scares people into sway there votes towards bush......to me those are a bunch of facts and events swayed into a story, im not saying its not possible its just i dont buy it, people sit on the internet all day and make up stuff like this....all bush has shown me is hes an idiot, canada looks better and better everyday, too many americans are just brain washed, they cant think for themselves, they cantr mind there business, there close minded....what kind of free country doesnt allow yout o marry who you want, you to smoke what you want,they can send u off to war against your will, they can take u from y our loved ones and family, ruin your life because they feel its necessary, who the **** are they...they tax the money we make..they hide stuff from us..... it makes me sick i hope there is never a draft, i wont go, i refuse to go into the military and come out brainwashed into a lil diggerboy for are governement, i like to think for my self ....i just cant stand to talk about this because it makes me so angry...

[sportraxkid]

good job SHR im with you ;)

[batgeek]

:( this thread lost it's meaningfulness by being chopped :(

[310Rduner]

Yay.. someone unlocked it.. whoever did rocks.
I went into the garage, come back a couple hours later and theres 56 replies and its locked:grr: Yeah.. i basically agree with all the intelligent people that posted (Yes, this exludes you srh, and sporttraxkid );)

I'm only 17, so I'm not going to claim that I have experienced everything in life, but damn srh open you're freaking eyes and THINK a little bit. I like what the geek posted about if you aren't a liberal when you're under 30 you have no heart, and if you are over 30 you have no head. I guess I don't have much compassion for the idiots of the world (probably 60% of the population it seams)

Why, when confronted with the idea that all the islamic extremists, like the shiite's and wahabi's want to destroy our way of life seem so far fetched to you; and you automatically assume it must be propaganda? Are you saying there is evidence to think they DON'T hate US? You just don't get it. IF they had their way you would be dead. It doesn't matter how progressive you are, how liberal you are.. you represent EVERYTHING they hate just because you aren't one of them. When they come to kill you because you and your liberal friends refused to realize this, they aren't going to care that you're on their side- (I say their side, because you obviously hate america, and what it represents).

I'm going to go searching for this website I read awhile ago that has a web blog of an iraqi man still living in Iraq. He talks about how many islamics try to say that murder/terrorism isn't the true way of the islamic teachings; he shows that this really isn't the case, and most that do feel this way just don't fully read or choose to ignore what the Koran does say. The point of what he tries to make in the blog, is that TRUE islam is violent, and that the terrorists are in fact the ones who truly follow islam; whereas the more liberal islamics are just more progressive, and live in the modern world. He calls for reforms to islam, like the catholic church went through to bring it into modern times..

[310Rduner]

Originally posted by batgeek
:( this thread lost it's meaningfulness by being chopped :(

don't worry.. his ideas were the same in every post.. and he is still just as stupid as before. That level of stupidity is hard to hide ;) It will come back up anyways.

For the new people reading it.I'll paraphrase the 4 pages that got deleted. Srh basically ranted about hating america, then everyone like joex, and batgeek and a few others told him to wisen up, and basically to put up, or shut up. Also that if he didn't like it, he could always leave.

[batgeek]

i'm going to have to disagree with that.(the end of 310R Duner's initail re-entry post).

the teachings of the Koran do not promote violence(in so much as any way the Bible does)...it is the doctrine of Islamic extremists that mutilate the teachings in order to propagate "thier" interpretation of the words in the Koran, that do. very much like how the Crusades started, or the Spanish Inquisition.

hey, us atheists are good for something eh? i love being able to stand back as a third party with no religious dogma smacking me in the head, and be able to analyze religions and their teachings without bias :)

however, i find it funny that i never had an opinion of SRH until he opened his mouth about politics and the state of our country :rolleyes:

[310Rduner]

I think we are both going for the same point.. that the majority of islamics aren't the bad guys. I agree with that. My side is just that the majority of the islamics don't follow it "hard core". They have just progressed with the world, and take the teachings of islam with a grain of salt.. just kind of skipping the parts dealing with murder.

I found that web blog.. its a very interesting read as well.

This is the part that really pertains to what I'm talking about


Quote:
Strange coincidence that the Nick Berg video was released almost simultaneously with the video of Palestinian ‘freedom fighters’ displaying the severed head of an Israeli soldier on a table. Al-Jazeera had the head blurred out, and the Nick Berg video was casually mentioned near the end of their news bulletin, and that was that. No extensive discussions with Arab ‘intelligentsia’ followed, no replaying of the video over and over again for days (as the Abu Ghraib images), no talk shows with enraged, fist shaking, name-calling Arab figures discussing the effect of these videos on the ‘image’ of the Islamic or Arab world. Just shame and guilty silence. Apparently, pictures of an American female soldier taunting a naked man with underwear on his head is much much more gruesome to Arabs. I guess not everyone is perfect.

So, to distance myself from the shameful hypocritical Arab and Muslim masses. I wish to denounce this barbaric act and the pathetic ideology that fueled it, to disown any person from my part of the world who would justify it, and to offer my sincere condolences and sympathy to the family and countrymen of Nicholas Berg.

And for Muslims, who are definitely going to say ‘this isn’t the real Islam’:

“When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.” Surat Mohammed:4

Grow up, and leave the 7th century.

Update:
Some angry readers have interpreted the above last statement as an attack against fellow Muslims. That was not what I had intended. I usually do my best to avoid theological debates on Islam for safety considerations but I’ll indulge them just this once. My purpose was to point out that Islam indeed excuses such barbaric acts. This is not the same as saying that all Muslims believe in such acts or commit them, moderate Muslims exist, but Islam is not moderate. Islamic fundamentalists and terrorists have not deviated from Islam, in fact all their practices are derived from the Quran and Hadith.

So yes, Islam is the problem here. Poverty, economic conditions, abuse by so called colonialism, and political frustration are not. Similar conditions elsewhere in the world have not prompted non-Muslims to commit suicide bombings or fly planes into towers. Islam, along with favourable cultural, tribal, and social values existing in the Arab world has prompted that drive. Islam and the Quran alone are the root cause.

The solution is not however to alienate all Muslims, or to expel them, or annihilate them. It is up to ‘moderate’ Muslims and their clerics to carefully examine their scriptures and to reform, the same way Jews and Christians did. The Quran is a book, and its tenets were appropriate for a certain era in history. Most of it does not apply today, so it is not ‘untouchable’. You either believe in the whole book, together with its violent verses, or you should stop claiming to be a consistent believer. You cannot select verses which appeal to your argument and ignore the rest.

How would you explain these, for instance:

“The just retribution for those who fight Allah and His messenger, and commit horrendous crimes, is to be killed, or crucified, or to have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or to be banished from the land. This is to humiliate them in this life, then they suffer a far worse retribution in the hereafter.” Surat Al-Ma’ida:33

“O believers, do not take Jews and Christians as allies, they are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them.” Surat Al-Ma’ida:51

I can go on and on, but I would rather not. I have intensively examined the Quran and Sunna, and I might have a few things that would scare some pious believers. Maybe, some other time, when I’m in a safer environment, I would devote a website or a book to the subject.


This is his web blog. It talks a lot about what is really going in in iraq

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/archives/2004_05_01_healingiraq_archive.html#10843891589444 3687

[batgeek]

yes, i have read alot of that guy's stuff, he is considered a radical leftist Muslim, even to the more progressive Muslims.

for every quote in the Koran he uses, i can find one eerily similar in the King James Bible :)

see SRH, 310R Duner is a teenager that you can actually have an intelligent conversation with....amazing huh?


don't worry.. his ideas were the same in every post..

which helped to hammer the point home :)

[310Rduner]

Originally posted by batgeek
yes, i have read alot of that guy's stuff, he is considered a radical leftist Muslim, even to the more progressive Muslims.

for every quote in the Koran he uses, i can find one eerily similar in the King James Bible :)

see SRH, 310R Duner is a teenager that you can actually have an intelligent conversation with....amazing huh?



which helped to hammer the point home :)

You have a point there. But the same thing applies to christianity. How many people do you know, that take every word of the bible literally? And the people that do?? They are usually the ones who wind up on the news.. much like the terrorists do. I think our culture just is more receptive to progressive type ideas. The type of ideas you would find in hardcore islam, or hardcore christianity don't go over real well with the laws we have in our country, so people tend to take those ideas in stride, and choose to not follow them because they don't fit with the times.

As a side note, Kettle corn rocks:D

[310Rduner]

Originally posted by batgeek
yes, i have read alot of that guy's stuff, he is considered a radical leftist Muslim, even to the more progressive Muslims.


My brain is confused by seeing the words liberal, leftist, and muslim in the same sentence.. and more to the point, by agreeing that it's a good thing (as far as anything liberal being good).

[batgeek]

the only reason you see those words int he same sentence now-a-days is their voice is hard to supress due to the internet, and to a lesser extent, that Hussein no longer KILLS EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. :)

radical right or left wing philosophy(not matter what doctrine being preached) will always get airplay. it makes "good news". sensationalism at it worst :(

liberal is not a bad word when used in certain context ;)

[310Rduner]

Originally posted by batgeek


liberal is not a bad word when used in certain context ;)

I can agree to that :devil:

[250xridamatt]

Well we studied the islamic religion for a couple months this year in history class, and we have a teacher that always lets us get into debates. We learned that the reason islamic people became violent is to be forgiven of their sins. Their belief is that you go to a place between heaven and hell, where u are punished for your sins. By going on a jihad, you were automatically forgiven, just by saying you would go. This was just a way for muhammed to get what he wanted, the world.

We also learned how much the koran is like the bible. It seems as though muhammed took the bible, and just added a few morals that he made up.

Now what would happen if bush left Iraq? Total chaos!! These terrorist attacks may never stop, but they will certainatly slow down sometime. These things take patience, obviously something you guys don't have. There is no way to fix a a thousand years of problems, in only two or three years.

That is my view on all this stuff, i say if we go with kerry, we might have our troops back, but we screw the iraqis over.

Also, i havn't seen this cheaper gas yet. If we were getting gas, we wouldn't be paying what we are thank you.

I may be 14, but I know whats going on around the world.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by 250xridamatt

That is my view on all this stuff, i say if we go with kerry, we might have our troops back, but we screw the iraqis over.




Everything you posted is very good... I'm impressed how much you know and the ability to create your own view, for only being 14 years old. I would have to disagree with this statement I quoted above... here is my version of it. :D

If we go with Kerry, the US, as well as the rest of the world will be screwed. The original post to this thread explains why...

Either way, good job learning history and stay on top of being informed!!! :macho

[SRH]

i dont hate america, i disagree with alot of the laws and the way things work, why cant i? i dont trust george bush so i would never feel comfortable voting for him, on the other hand i dont trust kerry either but he seems...more intelligent, i honestly do not care what bush or the other guys do as long as the draft is not reinstated if it was then id have problems with the govt, because the minute they take me away from my life to participate in something i have no intrest in is when i would get angry...something like that

[Pappy]

draft hell, if they'd let me i'd pay my own way and supply my own gear:mad:

maybe its because im just a flat nut....but those ragheads attacked my soil....and for that i would die to get to them. no offence to anyone who doesnt understand my position, but i'd just as soon shoot a coward as the enemy.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Pappy
no offence to anyone who doesnt understand my position, but i'd just as soon shoot a coward as the enemy.


agreed.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by SRH
because the minute they take me away from my life to participate in something i have no intrest in is when i would get angry...something like that



so what happens when you and your family are in a public place and a terrorist sets a bomb off!?!? Why not defend yourself.... and before you spew out your anti-war & anti-bush crap, please read up more on this topic.... your embarrassing yourself.

[Out_Sider]

i just stay out of the govt. to me..it's all lies

[Woodsrider]

Good to see this back out in the open forum. It was a great thread. Even better now that all the BS is out of it. Sorry to get it closed last night, but someone was getting out of hand and I had had enough. I should have just left the kid alone I guess.:o

[batgeek]

they take me away from my life

you better thank every single veteran that gave up his life so that you can live yours they way it is. even the ones that were drafted.

selfish little prick.

[Max400]

you better thank every single veteran that gave up his life so that you can live yours they way it is. even the ones that were drafted.

Thank You Batgeek, I know we've had opposing opinions in the past but you always Know what you are talking about! you have a lot of knowledge on the subjects that you speak about!
I don't mind a good debt with some with brains, but some of these little arrogant punks like SRH need to thing about what they say.....I LOT of good men died so punks like that can spew their stuipity:mad:

Anyway Amen to what you just said batgeek........and for you dumd***** kids and your Smack talk remember this. It's better to be thought of as a FOOL than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. So do your parents proud and shut the Hell up!

[250xridamatt]

One reason i know so much is because i go to a christian school. There they let udebate about religion and government, and the teachers almost all have the same oppinion as me, so we end up talking about it a lot. These ignorant people here should just remember that we could be speaking japenese, or be slaves, or be wearing turbins right now. Be thankful for what these soldiers gave you.