Ballance Speaks Up

[Bill_Ballance]

First off I want to congratulate Bryan on an excellent ride. I enjoyed racing with you and hope to do more in the future.

To start off I usually do not say much unless it is a life changing event of something to do with my wife, child, or family. But I have found that in the last few hours since the VA race that I have to speak up. I know there will be those who believe and those that disbelieve and whatever category you fall into is fine with me. All I'm going to do here is lay out the truth. On the 2nd lap of the race this weekend myself, Chris B., and Matt S. came up on a bottleneck somewhat close to the 8 mile marker. It was jammed full of riders we stopped for a second looked and there was a spectator just ahead waving at us towards the field just beside the track, we moved out in the field and started looking for a place to come back in just in front of the bottleneck, but it appeared to me to thick to get through anywhere as we kept circleing the out skirts of the trees we found where the trail come back out of the woods and continued racing--TO ADD ON TO THIS AFTER THE RACE-- My radio pitman and two other guys that I don't know came to me to let my know they were keepin times and the distance between us three and Yokley(who was in fourth at the time) had not changed from the time we were at the 6 1/2 mile mark to just after this bottleneck. When the race came to an end the racer productions crew was discussing how to handle this so Jeff Russell, myself, Chris, Matt, and other crew members went out to the spot and discussed what happened and took place. Jeff showed us 2 spots that we could have reentered the course sooner and I can't say wether we missed them or they were not visible at the time because after talking to Jeff I slowly crusied by the spots again and they both looked to me as if they had been rode on and mashed down sometime very recently. (TO GO BACK JUST A LITTLE) When discussing with Jeff out on the track I told him that I understood the problem he was faced with and I suggested that a rider ride through the trail at race speed and do the same thing in the field --even though we were not wide open due to looking for a place to re-enter-- and take away that time from our overall time or even double it for our penalty because we were just talking about a 15 to 20 second section. Jeff agreed that it was only a 15 to 20 second section and after that discussion we thought that was what he would probably do. But after him going back and talking with Carrie Jo and Rita they came to the conclusion of taking 2 minutes away and it was said to be from Rita that " we could take even a minute away from your time, but you would still win the race and that's no penalty." What I don't understand is why 2 minutes was taken over a 15 to 20 second situation. This has been handled as if we three were out trying to cheat and cut course when we were just in a situation trying to get around a bottleneck. I would never cheat and have never cheated and would hope that the people in our race world know that. Futher more I feel very strongly that Chris, Matt, nor any of the other top pro's cheat to win races.

For anyone who has any questions I have full footage of the race from a helmet cam I was wearing during the entire VA race and I am in the process of arranging that the footage of the section in question be posted for all to see and make your own judgement of what happened.

I am not and would not try to down play Bryan Cook in anyway. I think he is a very good guy and talented racer and in the future has as much ability as anyone out there to win races.

I am just speaking up with regards to the decision that racer productions made to take 2 minutes of our time over a 15 to 20 second situation caused by a bottleneck. I feel that this was totally unfair.

To my fans and supporters that still believe in me THANKS!!! I'll see you at the Wisp!

Bill Ballance

[hon400ex]

good post. where does it go from here? how is the appeal process handled?or will there be an appeal process?

thanks
andy

[jb500ex]

one thing that i have noticed is all of you top racers are all good guys and i believe you all have good intensions. this situation has the possibility of getting ugly. everyone would like too see bryan get the win but at the same time no one wants too see you, chris, or matt get screwed. i raced in the morning and their were so many different lines and they kept changing sections of the track, every lap a new section would be x'ed off and their would be more trails it got confusing

[jdwxv3]

You are the man, everyone knows it. You don't have to cheat to win! Sorry for the unfortunate ruling. Get em' next time! I will be routing for you from here in Missouri! By the way did I ever say you are the man :macho

[LTandRaptorider]

Hope it gets straightened out... you gotta do what you gotta do. ;)

[cdalejef]

Bill, congrats on another great ride saturday! I seems this isn't the first time that bottle necks have caused a discrepancy (Ironman morning race last year) for the overall. I believe in both of these cases, the riders did what the rule book says and should not have been penalized.
"7. Riders encountering a traffic jam or bottleneck may go more than 25 feet off the course to get around the bottleneck only. However, the rider must re-enter the course as soon as possible, and upon approaching this section the next lap, must ride the original arrowed section if the track is clear. If the original marking devices are knocked down, the rider must stay on the original marked course. A "bottleneck" is a section of the track that becomes impassable for any reason, with the exception of check points."
I think this rule needs to go into more detail.
I agree with you on the pro class not cheating, I can't remember the last time I saw a pro racer cheat.

Will there be an appeal with the AMA?

[Pappy]

We are with ya Bill:macho

I dunno how you guys see the track much less a hole inthe woods...even if it was slowed down. A 15 second section shouldnt cost you guys 2 minutes especially when there was a bottleneck. All eye's are on the top guys and trying to cheat would be like fiddling with the farmers daughter at the dinner table....it just aint gonna happen without someone seeing it.

Cook is a good rider, and I hate to see his win come in this fashion, but i'm certain he fully understands that you guys have to fight for whats right and what you believe in.

Keep on keepin on...it will all work out!

good job brian. i dont thing there is any reason to take 2 min away.take 30 sec. tops. i bet if an a or b rider did that there would nt be a prob. it s all politics. lol

[gump]

if you speed down pit road in nascar to gain a few seconds your penalized a lap, depending on the track. 20 secound advantage is huge riding in the woods.
but you are the man, and if you didn't win all the time and stinking up gncc racing :D they would have giving it to yall, but looks like they wanting a different winner to keep the fans in it.
with all due respect your the best of the best !!!!!!!!!!!!

[redroost85]

Thanks for keeping it real.....you the man Bill!:cool:

We're still all with ya Bill, either way this deal turns out.:)

[bradley300]

the way i see it, if you wan by more than a minute, and only "cut 15-20 seconds, the whats the problem? ive seen some alternate lines in the past that seem that long

[CatMostFeared]

this is a outrage:mad:

Next Bill just ride 2 min. faster than everyone eles.

I'm with you Bill

[Lil - Braff]

Well it's obvious Bill did NOT cheat b/c he is willing to show the video to everyone to prove it. If you have won so many times before then it's obvious that you wouldn't have to cheat to win. It does suck that it's all turning out like this but just be glad that they didn't take away a whole lap or something worse. Hope everything gets worked out and just go at em' hard next time! :macho

[Ryan]

I don't understand why it came to such a large problem. Its one thing if you guys went way off course, skipped a checkpoint, and so on.

If they were sure that you only saved 10-15 seconds going through that section, they should have taken off that exact time..... Not two minutes!!!


But now even if you can prove it with the helmet cam, I believe whats done is done and they won't change it. However they should come up with a fair solution if something like this happens again.

[Dave400ex]

Well just like everybody else said, you are the man, and the 89 points lead over Yokley shows it. I do agree with Bradley. They were saying this section to be at the most 20 seconds faster, and you won by over a minute, I see no problem. If anything, just go and win at the Wisp.

Keep up the winning, and man do I and I think most other people wish they could ride like you.

[Bonnie Cook]

Bill, there is no doubt you are the man!

Bryan was happy, so happy with second overall. We were talking tonight about this whole deal. He was the proudest I have ever seen him up there on the podium, standing next to the Champ. He was speechless the whole way home. He was smiling from ear to ear as soon as he got off the four-wheeler, even when he fell off the podium. (You know you laughed).
He hates to have that trophy in his room all because of this. He knows you kicked his butt on that last lap.
On the last lap, his quad cut off and it took thirty seconds to refire. He was sitting there going, "NO!!! Please start." Luckily it made it to the podium, where he rightfully took second overall.

Bill, Bryan and I both wish you all the luck at the Wisp, and the future. You know you are the Champ, and you will prove it!

[Dunlap]

I think we all agree that Billy is a true champion in every aspect and would never cheat on purpose to win. It's easy to go back and find lines after a race where Billy could have gone but that's "could'a, should'a, would'a". I also know that Bryan is proud of his 2nd place and nobody can take that away. Bryan has been in the top 10 in his class every race and has proven himself to be an up and coming rider. There is no real clear-cut way to end this to where everyone would be happy. I believe the GNCC people have a very, very tough job and do it very well. I believe this is to be an example that they will hold to the rules no matter who you are. They may have been a little harsh on the punishment part but I believe they also have to be to send a clear message. I think the "creative line" aspect of GNCC racing gets taken a little far off track (pun intended) more and more and it may start in the utility class where the 4-wheel drives are able to go places the sport machines can't. In the end, I believe Bryan will keep his 1st place trophy, money and points. Billy will have to sacrifice all this for the good of the sport to keep up the honesty and integrity of the GNCC racing. I think what is done is done and it would be a mistake to go on and on pointing the finger. I think it was good of Billy to come on here. He is very believable and respectable.

The video will tell all.....:eek2:

I would say this is all about miscommunication and has nothing to do with the integrity of the pro class riders...:cool:

Glad to see you post again Bill.

[ranger400ex]

I was the rider standing their with the spectator directing traffic around that bottleneck in the woods. You guys came up on the group trapped (lapped riders) and my dale was one of them stuck their. The coolant ran out, and the bike had shutdown, while trying to get unstuck. you guys went on a line that @ 25 other riders had taken already to get out of the bottleneck, we directed you that way. funny thing is RP crew came after you guys went through, and cut with chainsaws all kinds of new lines including clearing out where you all went around the bottleneck, two of them went around the outside even more than 30yards...riders were getting lost on them, cause no arrows were present.

Bill, you and Chris and Matt, along with Santo, and couple other all took the rout out. The first few couldn't get right back in...and probably good you didn't their were 6 more riders stuck on that reentry point...the first guy had made that line and hung his YFZ bad.

I wish a video camera had been around....if you saw that area on camera...it would all make sense. RP guy even dropped a tree on a guy while he was getting unstuck, instead of helping.

Very poor decision by them.

Not putting anything on Bryan....he was hauling ***** too!!!!! Maybe RP needs to put camera's on all the pro's, maybe a little review of the race

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by ranger400ex

Bill, you and Chris and Matt, along with Santo, and couple other all took the rout out. The first few couldn't get right back in...and probably good you didn't their were 6 more riders stuck on that reentry point...the first guy had made that line and hung his YFZ bad.


Hold on here now.......

Me and Andy Both went to go that way and when we saw where we was going we turned around and went back in where we came out and went through the section.

[Mxjunkie]

Sometimes the rules go a little to far, I think this is one of the times. Even if they took another line why give them a bigger time to wait. I dont get it but what ever happens, happens....Bill is a champ I dont see why they would even excuse him of cheating

[cdalejef]

Thats just it, according to the rules they didn't cheat!

Originally posted by Mxjunkie69
Bill is a champ I dont see why they would even excuse him of cheating

I wouldn't say he's been accused of Cheating...;)

[Mxjunkie]

Originally posted by Rico
I wouldn't say he's been accused of Cheating...;)

ooo, its early in the morning i guess i made a mistake there :o...sorry

[Pappy]

something tells me that RP has just made the determination level of Bill, Chris and Matt skyrocket. I feel bad for the rest of the Pro class for the rest of the season

[ranger400ex]

Santo, yeah some guys did try to come back, but they got hung up too. I was the guy in gear who helped you, Andy, Rick, and a ton of other guys get unstuck and reroute through that section. ruts were a good 2ft or more deep by then

[cliq20]

jeff, you are right i read the rules last night too (before you had them posted) and it clearly says that what they did was ok given the circumstances.

however, i was not there and from the sounds of it neither was an official. there is no reason not to believe ballance.

it must be something very aggravating for him to post though. i'm sure breaking the rules was not even going through their minds.

almost as though since people are watching every move they make, then those who saw may have thought it was cheating. then they would say, "they can get away with anything".

like they penalized them as an example...

not really right. they should have just read the rules as an example and not penalized.

but they do have a very difficult job. can't have enough people to watch 8 miles of track and there can be some difficult decisions to make within the .5 hours after the race in which the verbal protests must be made.

[Andy Lagzdins]

Congrats to Bryan, Bill and Jeremy on a great ride. Here is my view: I was behind Santo going into the section, and I followed him to the left of the ruts and out onto the grass. We went a short way along the tree line but didn't see a way back into the woods right away. Santo started to slow down and I saw what looked like a spectator in front of Santo making motions like we should turn around, so at that point I thought it was a bad alternate and turned around before Santo so I would be ahead of him going back into the woods where we came out. When I came to the section again on the final lap, I had to avoid the ruts again, and went to the right and pioneered a line through virgin woods around the section. There was alot of room to make lines around to the right of the section. I think that Bill got lured into the whole situation by a combination of spectators pointing to take the line, and the tracks of other quads that had already gone through the treeline and out onto the grass in search of a way around the bottleneck. I'm sure if Bill hadn't had the spectators pointing a way to go he would have gone around to the right and not lost any positions. I take the advice of spectators pointing which way to go alot and don't even think twice about it. None of the pro riders want to win by having a unfair advantage. I think this situation has nothing to do with cheating at all, just spectators' good intentions gone awry and some bad luck. I know that RP is in a very tough situation and I'm sure they want to do the right thing.

[EASTHILL]

I think with these tighter single line courses we are racing on,
rp should anticipate heavy bottleneck situations and create additional lines prior to the morning race,not during the afternoon race.

Having said that-hopfully this will be a positive learning experience we can all benifit from in the future.

[XC250R]

I know during race time at the pro's speeds decisions must be made in an instant. I am positive none of them were trying to cheat. If anyone saw Bill come through the MX section, he definitely wasn't cheating to gain a lead. I think the problem lies with the punishment. There should be stated rules for a situation like this. I do feel it was unfair to overly punish them to intentionally make them lose overall positions. He worked hard to gain the lead he had.

Congrats Bill, the fans know you don't have to cheat to win. I just wish you were on a Honda!:D

[rangeball00]

Here is somthing for everyone just to think about........

First off, congrats to Bryan for your first win. Not downing Bill or anything, but in my opinion the ruling should have been a little more than just a slap on the wrist. Every rider out there incouters the same obstacles that every racer has to take on. Now, just because the bottleneck that yall came upon was to crowded to pass through is just another obstacle that you have to over come in a race. What makes yall (Bill, Matt, Chris) think that just because when yall came upon the bottleneck that was unpassable that everyone else in the Pro Class (Bryan, Mike, Santo, Jeff and so on) isnt going to have to pass through the same bottleneck that yall did. I believe that yall were so negligent that yall just got cought up in the moment of being stoped and possibly getting cought by other riders that you discared the rules and took it upon yourself to make your own.

No offence to anyone, just stating an opinion....

[rowlrag]

Andy said it best! RP should have gotten all pro's together and discussed it.

[XC250R]

Originally posted by rangeball00
Here is somthing for everyone just to think about........

First off, congrats to Bryan for your first win. Not downing Bill or anything, but in my opinion the ruling should have been a little more than just a slap on the wrist. Every rider out there incouters the same obstacles that every racer has to take on. Now, just because the bottleneck that yall came upon was to crowded to pass through is just another obstacle that you have to over come in a race. What makes yall (Bill, Matt, Chris) think that just because when yall came upon the bottleneck that was unpassable that everyone else in the Pro Class (Bryan, Mike, Santo, Jeff and so on) isnt going to have to pass through the same bottleneck that yall did. I believe that yall were so negligent that yall just got cought up in the moment of being stoped and possibly getting cought by other riders that you discared the rules and took it upon yourself to make your own.

No offence to anyone, just stating an opinion....


A first post way off base from most of the racers/spectators.

[cletusEX]

Originally posted by XC250R
A first post way off base from most of the racers/spectators.

Exactly!

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by rangeball00
Here is somthing for everyone just to think about........

First off, congrats to Bryan for your first win. Not downing Bill or anything, but in my opinion the ruling should have been a little more than just a slap on the wrist. Every rider out there incouters the same obstacles that every racer has to take on. Now, just because the bottleneck that yall came upon was to crowded to pass through is just another obstacle that you have to over come in a race. What makes yall (Bill, Matt, Chris) think that just because when yall came upon the bottleneck that was unpassable that everyone else in the Pro Class (Bryan, Mike, Santo, Jeff and so on) isnt going to have to pass through the same bottleneck that yall did. I believe that yall were so negligent that yall just got cought up in the moment of being stoped and possibly getting cought by other riders that you discared the rules and took it upon yourself to make your own.

No offence to anyone, just stating an opinion.... I can't speak for the others but I would have done the samething in that situtation because according to the rules, that is what you are supposed todo. I look foreward to seeing the helmet cam footage.

[Rebelrider4OOex]

well lets see this video

[wyndzer]

My momma always told me "WINNERS never cheat, and cheaters never win".

In my book Bill is a WINNER! He found a new line and took it. RP should quit there ******ing.

Oh yeah congrats Bryan:macho Putting NC out there on the podium.

[rangeball00]

Lets take this into consideration..

Anything that is done professionaly has rules. For example: Sterling Marlin got out of his race car during a nascar race that had been red flaged to pull his bumper away from the tire so that it wouldnt cut the tire down. He broke a rule that was clearly specified in the rule book not to do. He was not docked 2 positions but he was sent to the back of the field, more than just a slap on the wrist.

[bradley300]

your not reading everything, BILL DID NOT BREAK THE RULES

[lshonda310]

Originally posted by rangeball00
Lets take this into consideration..

Anything that is done professionaly has rules. For example: Sterling Marlin got out of his race car during a nascar race that had been red flaged to pull his bumper away from the tire so that it wouldnt cut the tire down. He broke a rule that was clearly specified in the rule book not to do. He was not docked 2 positions but he was sent to the back of the field, more than just a slap on the wrist.

so should the race have been red flagged for a bottle neck?

[rangeball00]

If you read what Bill posted, RP saw a spot in the woods where he could have clearly gotten back on the trail without having to cut that whole section out and ride through a field which clearly breaks rule 7 in the rule book for the nationals. You must enter the track at the nearest point of re-entry.

[rangeball00]

Originally posted by lshonda310
so should the race have been red flagged for a bottle neck?


Is it nascar???

[Dave400ex]

It was said that RP came by afterwords and made more ways to get back on the track. Chances are the ones that were pointed out, might not have even been there when Bill, Chris, and Matt rode by.

[Johnny_G]

Originally posted by rangeball00
If you read what Bill posted, RP saw a spot in the woods where he could have clearly gotten back on the trail without having to cut that whole section out and ride through a field which clearly breaks rule 7 in the rule book for the nationals. You must enter the track at the nearest point of re-entry.

Rangeball:
I don't know who you are, but I don't think you are understnding the situation completely.

Bottlenecks are something that are strictly based on rider judgment....you do what you must do to get around!!!!!!!!!! palatka florida the last two years has been so impassable that you at times were several hundred yards off the original track....sometimes shortening the corse....sometimes going longer in an effort to just keep moving!

In this particular situation Bill Chris and Matt where never more than 20 feet from the original trail so according to the GNCC standard that is set by previos races..they did not break any rules.

I feel that racer productions chose to dock the riders based on one rider, and his crew's incessant unwaranted complaining....from Ritas own mouth she was planning to dock bill twice the time he may have gained (30 seconds x 2= 1 minute) but because Bill won by over a minute the race outcome would not have changed and the whinning would have continued and she felt that the only way to apease the lil baby was to take the win away from Bill....kinda sux if you ask me:grr:

[popo]

A 2 minute deduction seems a little harsh for a 30 second lead "if that is the proven fact" which I highly doubt.

From what I understand. The complaining party "pro rider" was pitted in the same area as Bill and others came out of. I thought pro riders could only pit or get gas in designated area's.

And let it be known the complaining pro rider was not Mr.Cook or any of his peers.

All I can say is "Houston the eagle has landed"

[ranger400ex]

Their was only one "line" into the woods at that point in the race, who can I talk to @ RP? Myself and one spectator were the only ones their, the guy finally came on the very last lap to start cutting ways around with the chainsaw, and made a couple out in the field....apparently he forgot to tell his employers he did this too. Funny thing, the field round out...was alot slower than a line that developed to the right of all that mess. Straight shot, only one log to pounce over, it cut about 50yrds of the track off. RP doesn't now what rules they want to follow sometimes.

Do you HAVE to stay on the trail the entire race or could you theoretically race 20 feet off the trail the whole race?? I know that this is something a racer wouldn't do but is this a legal thing to do?? The only time it appears in the rules that you HAVE to stay on the trail is if double arrows are used. The way I read this, is you can run 8 miles if you want, 20 feet off the track and the only time you HAVE to be back on the trail is if you come to an area with double arrows. Seems like Bill didn't do anything wrong at all if he never went 20 feet off the trail bottleneck or not..:confused:

[Dunlap]

I'm going to ask that this be locked now. This is between Billy and RP. Letting this go on is not going to do anything good for the sport. All of you need to be thankfull that you even have such a well organized and professional event to go to. None of you or this website would be here if it wasn't for RP and what they have done for the sport. Are they perfect, no and either are you. Don't think I'm sticking up for them because I'm "buddy buddy" with the Coomes cause I'm not, the fact is they don't even like me for what ever reason. I just hate how the internet is used to put people or companies down with out both side being heard. Nothing good comes from this so please lock it.:grr:

[dhines]

Originally posted by Johnny_G
Rangeball:
Bottlenecks are something that are strictly based on rider judgment....you do what you must do to get around!!!!!!!!!!

I have no input on the specifics of what happened in this race, but I do have an issue with this comment - and it is one that many of you seem to agree with. In my opinion it is entirely wrong to leave the decision of "how far is too much" up to the riders. That interpretation leaves way too much room for abuse – whether it is intentional or unintentional.

What exactly constitutes a bottle neck? If two people get tangled in front of you, can you automatically exit the course, or does it require 3 or more machines? What if the next point of entry that you see is 200 yards down the track? What if it’s ¼ of a mile? ½ of a mile?

Ultimately it is RP that has to determine what is appropriate in these situations - not the riders - and I feel that they should be very aggressive in their enforcement - just as they seem to have been here.

If you take it upon yourself to exit the course, rather than waiting for a bottleneck to clear, you have an *obligation* to find the absolute shortest path around. If RP comes back after the fact and determines that you should have come back onto the course sooner - that's simply the risk you take when you make the decision to pioneer a new line. Like it or not, waiting for a bottleneck to clear IS an option.

I truly feel that RP should rule on every exit from the course very stringently - as they appear to have done here. I am absolutely not saying that Balance or anyone else intentionally cut more of the course than they should have – I don’t believe that for a second. However, anyone who decides to make their own line beyond the traditional boundaries of the course should do so mindful of the fact that they may very well have to justify their decision to RP after the fact. The alternative simply leaves far too much room for people to take advantage of the situation.

Not hatin’ – just statin’ ;)

Dennis

[brian-250]

Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
I'm going to ask that this be locked now. This is between Billy and RP. Letting this go on is not going to do anything good for the sport. All of you need to be thankfull that you even have such a well organized and professional event to go to. None of you or this website would be here if it wasn't for RP and what they have done for the sport. Are they perfect, no and either are you. Don't think I'm sticking up for them because I'm "buddy buddy" with the Coomes cause I'm not, the fact is they don't even like me for what ever reason. I just hate how the internet is used to put people or companies down with out both side being heard. Nothing good comes from this so please lock it.:grr:


wtf's wrong with us debating on whos right and whos wrong here??




IMO, bill done nothing wrong, if you have to go around somthing it has to be done, and if they cut the other trails AFTER that group went though there it would be a little hard to see them and even if they were there maby it was blocked by brush or somthing like that idk, well thats my 2 cents like or not :o

[dhines]

Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
I'm going to ask that this be locked now. This is between Billy and RP. Letting this go on is not going to do anything good for the sport. All of you need to be thankfull that you even have such a well organized and professional event to go to. None of you or this website would be here if it wasn't for RP and what they have done for the sport. Are they perfect, no and either are you. Don't think I'm sticking up for them because I'm "buddy buddy" with the Coomes cause I'm not, the fact is they don't even like me for what ever reason. I just hate how the internet is used to put people or companies down with out both side being heard. Nothing good comes from this so please lock it.:grr:

Boy - this is just my day to disagree with people!!

Sorry Mickey, but I really don't think it is at all inappropriate for participants in a racing series (or any organization) to have a forum like this to discuss issues. Although people are seeing this event in different ways, I feel that this thread has remained very civil and that it is ultimately beneficial to air these issues out.

Although I also feel that RP does a very good job with the races, that does not mean that those of us who race in their series should not be able to discuss and also have input into its development.

As long as it doesn't deteriorate into a flame war - let this thing go!


:macho :macho


Dennis

[XC250R]

Bring on the video.

And I think this forum was created because of the resurgence of Honda with the 400ex, not because of RP. Doesn't EX Riders sponsor GNCC or is it the other way around?

[XANDADA]

lol, RP ain't done nothin for me but make the value of my R go down the toilet:blah: :mad:

sorry, bad joke I know:( hope all parties get their "issues" resolved...

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
All of you need to be thankfull that you even have such a well organized and professional event to go to.


None of you or this website would be here if it wasn't for RP and what they have done for the sport.

actually RP wouldnt be around if the racers didnt attend the events.

and the site would be here and doing fine wether GNCC racing existed or not. racing is a very small portion of the atv industry as a whole.

the thread will remain open until it reaches a point where it needs to be closed. i find this topic very interesting and informative. i do agree that any bashing of RP or any riders isnt needed so please keep it on track.

[jlhughes750]

Its funny that even if they docked Mr.B 2X the advantage time that he still would have won!!!!!!!!!!!

What I'm wondering is in all the mayhem and battling going on, how was anyone(RP) aware that these 3 racers went off the track to get around a bneck??? That type of thing happens all the time during races and no one says anything! Did someone in particular see it happen and complain or what....

Also look where Matt and Chris ended up after the "docking", they should be the one really complaining!!!!!

Also I disagree with the request to lock this thread... RP don't own this site and theres alot to be learned by hearing others opinions of certain situations. Some opinions need to be taken lightly of course and others ignored (I'll keep that list private for now)!!! But I'm for NOT locking this thread!! And yes we would still be here if RP was not around!! Theres a large % of racers on this site that do not race the GNCC's and are still happy!! I have nothing against RP, trust me, I just don't think we need to tip toe around them!!!

[XANDADA]

Originally posted by Pappy
actually RP wouldnt be around if the racers didnt attend the events.

and the site would be here and doing fine wether GNCC racing existed or not. racing is a very small portion of the atv industry as a whole.

the thread will remain open until it reaches a point where it needs to be closed. i find this topic very interesting and informative. i do agree that any bashing of RP or any riders isnt needed so please keep it on track.

Thank you, I couldn't agree more...

[z400ACDC]

I wonder if they just thought Bill was stinking up the show and thought this was a good way of letting someone else taste victory:confused:

[XC250R]

I think most could probably agree with some type of "standard" punishment for when RP seems fit, as they have in this situation. I just disagree with the way they add the time they need. They should state what they will do in the rulebook, and either dock a specific time or "X" number of positions.

I still feel they were within the boundaries of the rules.

[jlhughes750]

Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
[B I just hate how the internet is used to put people or companies down with out both side being heard.[/B]


HHHHHHHHmmmmmmmmm:rolleyes: Ironic

EVERYONE is entitled to there opinion even RP, theres nothing stopping them from speaking out.

[XC250R]

If used properly the internet protects the consumer by giving him leverage in a situation where bad business is being performed. Keep your customers happy and you don't have to worry about how the net is used.

With that being said, I was completely happy with the work Mickey did on my Wolverine years ago, so I am not speaking directly to him.

Now back to the topic.

Originally posted by Rico
Do you HAVE to stay on the trail the entire race or could you theoretically race 20 feet off the trail the whole race?? I know that this is something a racer wouldn't do but is this a legal thing to do?? The only time it appears in the rules that you HAVE to stay on the trail is if double arrows are used. The way I read this, is you can run 8 miles if you want, 20 feet off the track and the only time you HAVE to be back on the trail is if you come to an area with double arrows. Seems like Bill didn't do anything wrong at all if he never went 20 feet off the trail bottleneck or not..:confused:



Still waitin on an answer from you long time GNCC racers..:confused:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Rico
Still waitin on an answer from you long time GNCC racers..:confused:

the way you ride would it matter:eek:

I thought pro riders could only pit or get gas in designated area's

popo when there are only designated areas for the top 15 riders The other pros can pit where ever they want to. So if you are complaining about that person pitting where they were you are not making your self sound very smart. Pros like Gruca, Kuhnle, Huston, Griplen, sloan, Rowlands, and other have no designated spot to pit!!!!!!

[crayfz]

Rico, you are correct ,yes the only place you have to stay on the arrows is for double arrows.
I've never been at the pro level, but these descions happen quick, if you hesate you lose. A pro can't stop just because traffic does. I personnaly try to never stop, if its cutting, i've been doing it for years.

[Doibugu2]

How do you actually know if you go off the course? I mean its not like it's taped off. Many spots on the course are over 100 yards wide (starting line) while others appear to be barely over 4 feet wide.

So how wide is the actually course? Just becuase one line is primarly used through a wooded section which is only 4 feet wide does that mean anything over 20 feet past that is out of bounds?

I think the company that makes the pink tape is going to have to supply several miles of tape to RP before each race, otherwise these problems are only going to continue to get worse as the sport grows.

[crayfz]

This is only a problem in mud, and when they set up a tight course. I believe thats why they have been getting so wide open, they only cause themselves problems by making it tight. I would be surprised to see another tight course in the near future.

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by z400ACDC
I wonder if they just thought Bill was stinking up the show and thought this was a good way of letting someone else taste victory:confused: No...thats not why they did it. There have been other winners this year but even if there wasn't, they would never pull a stunt like that.

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by crayfz
This is only a problem in mud, and when they set up a tight course. I believe thats why they have been getting so wide open, they only cause themselves problems by making it tight. I would be surprised to see another tight course in the near future. That race wasn't considered muddy, just rutted out. And I bet $100 we see more tight races. Its XC racing not Desert.

[Pappy]

has anyone seen the helmet cam or video footage yet?

[Admin]

I think this is a very important post and it gives Racer Production a chance to see how the racers feel about their rulings. Yes, Racer Production has looked at this thread, and I think the GNCC rules will be more clearly defined next year on several topics brought up on EXriders.com. The valuable opinions on the situation whether positive or negative are very helpful in dealing with a similar situation in the future.

As a racer, I can understand both sides. I can understand why Bill, Chris, and Matt did what they did, but I can also understand the others racers being upset because they thought they had an advantage by avoiding the risk of getting stuck in the rough section.

I personally feel if any of the three could have found a spot to renter they would have without a question. If the course wasn't so tight and mostly one lined, this would have never happened.

My race was personally ruined from a track reroute and a bottleneck. In the third lap, Jeff Russell cut a new path around a bad section of track around the 2-3 mile marker, which unfortunately for me and others connected to another trail that wasn't part of the course. After following it for about 30 seconds or more and realizing this doesn't look familiar. I see a quad coming the other way saying "Wrong Way." I turned around, but the two people in my class out front of me didn't and went on. Where their decision right or wrong???. I don't know if it was a short cut or not, but I turned around and lost atleast 1-2 minutes getting back on the main trail telling others to turn around.

In the fourth lap before entering the MX track at around the 4.5 mile marker, a bottleneck developed and I sat for 10 seconds and decided to try to get around it. My quest was hopeless in those tight woods, and I found my self stuck on a log between two trees. Again, I spent atleast minute or two getting unstuck and by that time the bottleneck was gone. I rentered the course and finished the race. Unfortunately for me, I lost several positions due to the track redirect and bottleneck, but it wasn't worth making an issue out of it because it is all part of racing. This race I was dealt a bad hand and if things were different I should have finished in the top 5 overall.

In closing, I feel Racer Productions had a difficult problem to solve on their hands and did what they thought was best. For some, it was the right decision and others it was far from right. In the end, we all learn a little from it and feel bad for all parties involved. Hopefully, Racer Productions will have a concrete resolution for handling these situations in the near future, so there won't be any hard feelings amongst the racers.

[Dunlap]

My point is this will never get resolved on here - it will go on for another 10 pages and you can't fix it. You are not a part of the solution; you are just adding to the problem. This is Racer Productions business and they will run it the way they see fit. You should take your complaints directly to them and say what you want to say to their face. I bet very few of you will say the things you say on here to Rita's face.

[bradley300]

mickey, these pages are going directly to them;)

[jlhughes750]

And It'll be an informitive and entertaining 10 pages!!!

If someone does not want to be a part of it then don't!!!!!
This is not RP's business like Dunlap says, its our business, the racers!!!! This is "our" series, and "our" $ that pays the bills!!!

[dhines]

Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
My point is this will never get resolved on here - it will go on for another 10 pages and you can't fix it. You are not a part of the solution; you are just adding to the problem. This is Racer Productions business and they will run it the way they see fit. You should take your complaints directly to them and say what you want to say to their face. I bet very few of you will say the things you say on here to Rita's face.

Boy - you sure are Mr. Negative aren't you? If you think about it, this forum is really nothing more than a bunch of guys sitting around after a race and talking about a situation that came up. It is no different than what goes on in 100 different trucks and garages around the country every weekend - only the medium is different.

You may have a point that this thread may have no direct impact on RP - but then again it just might. Harlen has already stated that RP has seen this thread. Beyond that, this thread helps people exchange ideas on the subject and to form better opinions. And those opinions might just get relayed on to RP.

Oh yeah - I can gauren-damn-tee you I'd state everything I've said on here to Rita, Harlen, you, or Jesus Christ himself. Unlike yourself, I'm not inclined to sit back and say "nothings gonna change - so why bother."

Just statin' not hatin'

Dennis

[monkeyboy]

Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
My point is this will never get resolved on here - it will go on for another 10 pages and you can't fix it. You are not a part of the solution; you are just adding to the problem. This is Racer Productions business and they will run it the way they see fit. You should take your complaints directly to them and say what you want to say to their face. I bet very few of you will say the things you say on here to Rita's face.



http://ricoracing.netfirms.com/Smilies/cookoo.gif

[Admin]

Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
My point is this will never get resolved on here - it will go on for another 10 pages and you can't fix it. You are not a part of the solution; you are just adding to the problem. This is Racer Productions business and they will run it the way they see fit. You should take your complaints directly to them and say what you want to say to their face. I bet very few of you will say the things you say on here to Rita's face.

Mickey, I disagree with you on this one. I don't think anyone is out to attack Rita or Racer Productions. They just want to let them know their side of the story, and if anyone gets "out of line" or "Off Course", the post will be deleted and thread will be closed. Also, every member involved will be docked 100 Post from their post count :D. As of now, I have seen some good insight into the situation with very few harsh opinions.

You are right, the Racer Production will make the rules as they see fit, and I run EXriders.com the way I see fit. I do however take members feedback into consideration when they make their comments known about an issue, but like in this case, I sometimes disagree with thier opinion and ignore their request.

Let the discussion continue, no hard feelings Mickey:D

[Johnny & Monica]

Why wouldn't anyone tell Rita what they thought ? Is she that scary that you can't even talk to her ?Without out the riders there would be no GNCC but there would always be another place to race. I'm not saying it would be any different anywhere else . Problems arise at all events and some just generate alot more controversy.We raced the IAATV series this weekend and lots of people left there mad too. Course not marked well in several spots, people not knowing where to go. , it's all part of racing no matter how bad it sux when you rode your a** off and get docked time or positions. There are good races and bad races so just shake it off and look forward to the next race where you can get your roost on again and this race will be forgotten .
We all know who the man is anyway. :D

[mobyplane]

Mickey and ExRidersAdmin are both correct. We will all learn from this incident and no, the problem will not be solved in this forum. That is not the purpose of this forum. The purpose of this forum is to provide a venue for open discussion. For this sport to evolve, these incidents must not only occur but we must also have these discussions. It is essential. Let us embrace this opportunity watch this event unfold. Congrats to Bryan for the win. I promise to try to stay out of your way at the next MidEast Hare Scramble. (Congrats to you too Bonnie!)

[ranger400ex]

I told Rita on Friday night it was ver big diassapointment and sad representation of the sport for all the workers on quads to not be wearing helmets and screaming thru the woods. Maybe it will help, maybe not. but not a good representation of AMA/ATVA rules and guidelines.

I think discussions are good, we all have a different opinion, and good to see what everyone thinks, and yes Mickey, ultimately it is between all the parties involved and RP. and whatever decision is made, liked or unliked, will be.

[XC250R]

Originally posted by mobyplane
Mickey and ExRidersAdmin are both correct. We will all learn from this incident and no, the problem will not be solved in this forum. That is not the purpose of this forum. The purpose of this forum is to provide a venue for open discussion. For this sport to evolve, these incidents must not only occur but we must also have these discussions. It is essential. Let us embrace this opportunity watch this event unfold. Congrats to Bryan for the win. I promise to try to stay out of your way at the next MidEast Hare Scramble. (Congrats to you too Bonnie!)

Well said.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by EXriders Admin
and if anyone gets "out of line" or "Off Course", the post will be deleted and thread will be closed.

how far off-course is required before action is taken? will the meber be docked 20 posts? lmfao

[XC250R]

Originally posted by Pappy
how far off-course is required before action is taken? will the meber be docked 20 posts? lmfao

10,000 for you or you would still be the leader!

[Pappy]

Originally posted by XC250R
10,000 for you or you would still be the leader!

i'm the champ:o

[cdalejef]

It would be nice to see the official coarse marshals wearing orange vests like they used to. Its hard to tell which people that are pointing you in a direction are official coarse marshals and which are just spectators.

[Johnny & Monica]

And then there is a totally new agrument. How qualified do you have to be to be a course official ? I didn't use to worry about this until they got a scanner cord wrapped around my 10 year old daughters throat causing her to get wrapped up in the fencing marking off the checkpoint. Or what about when they just stand there staring at a major problem because they don't know what they are supposed to be doing?

[crayfz]

Jeff, I just don't think you will see a tight track for awhile, soon they will forget what it caused, and make another tight track. No that wasn't mud, just tight and ruted.
I won my class so I have no problems with the track.

[spincr4hire]

Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
None of you or this website would be here if it wasn't for RP and what they have done for the sport.

ah... thanks for the good afternoon laugh, I needed that.:D

[Shawn H]

IMO:

I believe the problems with the bottlenecks are only going to get worse.With the sport growing more and more there are going to be more racers entering the a.m class and more a.m riders stepping up to the p.m classes in the future.

The more the racers the more the tracks are going to get rutted and people getting stuck. Its about time RP figures out a good solution to the growth they are experiencing,and make clear cut rules.

BTW: Bill,Chris,Matt you guys are at the top of the game and no one should think your a cheat! I know I have gone around and made a line to get around a bottleneck and would bet everyone who has raced a GNCC,local race or what ever has done the same and will continue to do so.

IF none of them got more than 25 feet off the trail it doesn't matter were they re-entered, no rules were broken!!!!!

[mobyplane]

Any of us who race in these cross country races knows that from time to time you are faced with an obstacle called a "bottleneck". It's a unique obstacle because it is often there one minute and gone the next. Because of the nature of this type of obstacle, the rider has to decide whether to wait till it clears or attempt to go around at the risk of braking a rule. Maybe Bill and the guys broke the rule unintentionally, but you'll have a hard time convincing those of us who have raced against any of these pro riders that they did it because they decided to discard the rules or that they were above the rules. They made a decision, and the decision cost them. Sometimes you lose a race because you get beat by a faster rider, sometimes you get be by a mechanical failure, and sometimes you get beat because of a bad decision. Personally, I would much rather be beat by a faster rider. No doubt I have made bad decisions on the track that have cost me time and those are the times that bother me the most. Santo and Andris as well as other rider's I'm sure had to make the same decision about the bottleneck in question. Santo and Andris made the decision to turn around and hind-site showed it turned out to be wise. As far as the penalty that was dolled being unfair, well RP will have to defend that decision. Anyway, I guess Bill got beat. It happens. It happened 5 times in GNCC competition last year for various reasons, and to date this season it has happened 3 times for various reasons. I would bet that Bill is probably over this whole thing and is focusing on the next race. That's what a Pro does. Because life is unfair. And that fact in itself is an obstacle that we have to deal with.

[spincr4hire]

atv sport write up:
http://www.atvsport.com/output.cfm?id=835327

[Pappy]

after reading that article i'd have to say Billy didnt read Mickeys post:p

[XC250R]

Well when their desire to win is at the level it is everyone has to understand where the guys accused are coming from. I'd like to see a race to the end for the championship too, but wouldn't want to cheat to make it closer. Turnabout is fairplay.:cool:

[jlhughes750]

Good article
At least he didn't hold anything back!!!!

Give em he!! Bill!!!

[Smokey]

Very good post Bill. Just rememeber all us racers have been in that situation before and it was just a matter of time before RP did something like this to someone . Unfortunatly they will probally be watching you like a hawk now . Its nice to see a Pro rider come on and state his case instead of alot of hear say . Good luck with the AMA protest , but you probally just wasted your money on that . See ya at the races

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Smokey
Very good post Bill. Just rememeber all us racers have been in that situation before and it was just a matter of time before RP did something like this to someone . Unfortunatly they will probally be watching you like a hawk now . Its nice to see a Pro rider come on and state his case instead of alot of hear say . Good luck with the AMA protest , but you probally just wasted your money on that . See ya at the races

just think...7 months till the banquet:devil: and where the hell have you been:mad: :blah:

[Smokey]

LOL....Glad to know I am missed Pappy ....LOL....I have been a little busy makeing some life changes and getting rid of some OLD headaches . I plan to be at the Wisp one way or another , but things have been pretty hecktic so I cannt promise anything . Thats 1 week before I am getting married and not sure if I will make it but I WANT TO BE THERE .I WILL be at Burr Oaks 2 weeks later ( Hell its in my back yard ) and its a Duvall track ....LOL....Sorry had to through that in there The races I have missed this year has KILLED ME and I am always online looking to see how everyone did . I hope to find a away to race one before the year is up so I will be around .
Oh yea I am looking forward to the banquet more than ever this year . It going to be a BLAST:devil:

[250RXCrider]

Originally posted by dhines
Boy - you sure are Mr. Negative aren't you? If you think about it, this forum is really nothing more than a bunch of guys sitting around after a race and talking about a situation that came up. It is no different than what goes on in 100 different trucks and garages around the country every weekend - only the medium is different.

You may have a point that this thread may have no direct impact on RP - but then again it just might. Harlen has already stated that RP has seen this thread. Beyond that, this thread helps people exchange ideas on the subject and to form better opinions. And those opinions might just get relayed on to RP.

Oh yeah - I can gauren-damn-tee you I'd state everything I've said on here to Rita, Harlen, you, or Jesus Christ himself. Unlike yourself, I'm not inclined to sit back and say "nothings gonna change - so why bother."

Just statin' not hatin'

Dennis



Well said !

[240GNCC400]

where was the field that they went through? did anyone go through the wheat field or whatever it was that they told us if we went through we might as well pack up and go home?

as far as rules: whether bill was right or wrong its nice to see that RP applies the rules to the pros when they feel they have been broken, but it can be funny what they enforce and what they dont. remember that decibal issue we had a few months ago. guess it doesnt matter anymore. will anybody be wearing their tether by the end of the year, cause i saw a lot of guys without em on at VA. ( i think the call for 10 sec. might be code for unhook your tether!)

[gump]

well put mobyplane.. where ya been ??

[rowlrag]

The section in question was the woods after you came back around the end of the drag strip on a strip of blacktop.They went in the woods and came out to the left between the concrete wall and the woods. Hope I'm not wrong, I did the same thing last lap but only went about 20yds and went back in the woods.

[popo]

Originally posted by GNCCer
popo when there are only designated areas for the top 15 riders The other pros can pit where ever they want to. So if you are complaining about that person pitting where they were you are not making your self sound very smart. Pros like Gruca, Kuhnle, Huston, Griplen, sloan, Rowlands, and other have no designated spot to pit!!!!!!

I think you better shut up. Certain racers have been caught getting gas or pitting out of the designated pit area's layed out by R/P.

[mobyplane]

Originally posted by gump
well put mobyplane.. where ya been ??


Well, I was eatin' your mud at Hickory. I saw you go by me on the hill climb. I got stuck behind some other guys. Gee, glad I didn't go off course....(<--- sarcasm). Couldn't make it to Greenville, TN. I plan on being at the mud-bath on Sunday however.

Originally posted by popo
I think you better shut up. Certain racers have been caught getting gas or pitting out of the designated pit area's layed out by R/P.


LMFAO at the shut up...:D


Popo RP never gave me a specific spot to get gas. You know I just stop at whoever's pit looks the cleanest and tell them to bill the quadshop...:o

[XC250R]

Originally posted by Rico


Popo RP never gave me a specific spot to get gas. You know I just stop at whoever's pit looks the cleanest and tell them to bill the quadshop...:o

The ATVNC.com pit crew can attest to that!

[parkers30]

Originally posted by ranger400ex
I told Rita on Friday night it was ver big diassapointment and sad representation of the sport for all the workers on quads to not be wearing helmets and screaming thru the woods. Maybe it will help, maybe not. but not a good representation of AMA/ATVA rules and guidelines.

I thought the exactly same thing at the few GNCC's I have been to, it looks really bad, especially as it gets bigger with more coverage, who knows when 60 minutes or some BS is going to show up :eek:

[kc 300EX]

Soo a woman got involved eh?:rolleyes:

[G_MONEY]

Well, lil buddy here is my take...

I've been out of the sport for about the last 4 yrs. and things never change.

We have been all over the east coast racing for 6yrs together. Racing out of the same trailer, for the same people and NEVER, I MEAN NEVER have you ever had the support from RACER PRODUCTIONS!!!!

If you had won the race the points would be over and the champion crowned.

They dont want the series to end with several races left, they would stand a chance of losing money... And they are not going to lose money. Jeff was and I guess is in charge of running the show and Rita needs to stay out of it.

What about the time at Clarksburg, when me, matt, and you were at the hill there at rattlesnake ridge????? 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. BOOM bottleneck nowhere to go, stopped our bikes and sat there waiting for riders to clear. Got back going and nobody passed us the whole first lap, til we got to the the check point at the finish line and what do ya know we were 11th 12th and 13th.......

WHAT ABOUT THAT DAY>>>>

I need not remind you who was going for the championship that year...

Well nuff, said--- its to bad that nothing will ever come from the appeal, it will be washed under the table.

Just keep your HEAD up...

Time to clear the mechanism and let the BIG DOG EAT!!!!!:D /

[G_MONEY]

Originally posted by rangeball00
Here is somthing for everyone just to think about........

First off, congrats to Bryan for your first win. Not downing Bill or anything, but in my opinion the ruling should have been a little more than just a slap on the wrist. Every rider out there incouters the same obstacles that every racer has to take on. Now, just because the bottleneck that yall came upon was to crowded to pass through is just another obstacle that you have to over come in a race. What makes yall (Bill, Matt, Chris) think that just because when yall came upon the bottleneck that was unpassable that everyone else in the Pro Class (Bryan, Mike, Santo, Jeff and so on) isnt going to have to pass through the same bottleneck that yall did. I believe that yall were so negligent that yall just got cought up in the moment of being stoped and possibly getting cought by other riders that you discared the rules and took it upon yourself to make your own.

No offence to anyone, just stating an opinion....


You have no idea what your talking about..... just stating my opinion

[G_MONEY]

Originally posted by Mickey Dunlap
My point is this will never get resolved on here - it will go on for another 10 pages and you can't fix it. You are not a part of the solution; you are just adding to the problem. This is Racer Productions business and they will run it the way they see fit. You should take your complaints directly to them and say what you want to say to their face. I bet very few of you will say the things you say on here to Rita's face.

Mickey your just mad because Kawasaki dont pay your bills anymore.

[johnson357]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
It would be nice to see the official coarse marshals wearing orange vests like they used to. Its hard to tell which people that are pointing you in a direction are official coarse marshals and which are just spectators.

You have a good point and I know it is a money issue but maybe a few more course marshals w/radios would help. Radios because with out communications 2,000 course marshals wouldn't help. Or even volunteers with radios to notify them of a problem that it might be dealt with quicker.

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by G_MONEY
Well, lil buddy here is my take...

I've been out of the sport for about the last 4 yrs. and things never change.

We have been all over the east coast racing for 6yrs together. Racing out of the same trailer, for the same people and NEVER, I MEAN NEVER have you ever had the support from RACER PRODUCTIONS!!!!

If you had won the race the points would be over and the champion crowned.

They dont want the series to end with several races left, they would stand a chance of losing money... And they are not going to lose money. Jeff was and I guess is in charge of running the show and Rita needs to stay out of it.

What about the time at Clarksburg, when me, matt, and you were at the hill there at rattlesnake ridge????? 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. BOOM bottleneck nowhere to go, stopped our bikes and sat there waiting for riders to clear. Got back going and nobody passed us the whole first lap, til we got to the the check point at the finish line and what do ya know we were 11th 12th and 13th.......

WHAT ABOUT THAT DAY>>>>

I need not remind you who was going for the championship that year...

Well nuff, said--- its to bad that nothing will ever come from the appeal, it will be washed under the table.

Just keep your HEAD up...

Time to clear the mechanism and let the BIG DOG EAT!!!!!:D / Dang Greg....where have you been lately?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by G_MONEY


Time to clear the mechanism and let the BIG DOG EAT!!!!!:D /

I said it before....i think at wisp Bill will be sitting on the podium drinking a beer watching the last lap:eek: this issue just turned the fire up under him i'd say

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by Pappy
I said it before....i think at wisp Bill will be sitting on the podium drinking a beer watching the last lap:eek: this issue just turned the fire up under him i'd say Unless I bust out my rain dance!!! :devil:


J/K :p

[jlhughes750]

Chris has got a fire in him now as well!!!!!! And I'm sure Smiley will be feeling the same, Wisp should be interesting!!!!!

[Johnny_G]

Greg:
you always were one to state what you were feelin even if it stirred the Pot!!!!!!!!!!!

Well folks its all over......no more appleals no more BS...just gettin back to racing in 8 days.

I like racin alot more than I like controversy!!!!!!!!!:blah:

[Admin]

Originally posted by Johnny_G
I like racin alot more than I like controversy!!!!!!!!!:blah:

Amen!!!

I am closing this thread now because it has served its purpose, and I thank Bill Ballance for using EXriders.com as a Voice! I wish him and the others the very best in getting the issue resolved. Hopefully, something good will come out of this which will make GNCC racing even better.