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Crowdog
03-23-2002, 10:26 PM
Help protest the Sierra Club's lawsuit attempting to close Oceano Dunes (Pismo)

When: Thursday April 4th
Where: Corner of Truxtun Ave. & Chester Ave. (BAKERSFIELD)
TIME: 3:00PM - 6:30PM

More information about the protest:
http://oceanodunes.org/protest.asp

More information regarding the lawsuit:
http://www.oceanodunes.org/issues.asp

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crowdog
www.crowley-offroad.com

Leo
03-25-2002, 04:23 AM
going to make this post sticky so hopefully more folks can see it, and turn out to support the dunes..!

I'd go, but it's bit of a drive from NY :D

Leo

Crowdog
03-25-2002, 06:59 AM
Leo,

Thanks! Ever thought of a "Land Use" section?

Jon

Crowdog
04-05-2002, 09:43 PM
http://www.bakersfield.com/top/story/883674p-972050c.html

Access fight far from over
By KERRY CAVANAUGH, Californian staff writer

Thursday April 04, 2002

OCEANO -- This 5.5-mile stretch of California coast is the latest stage for an ongoing battle pitting environmentalists fighting to protect endangered species and off-road vehicle users trying to preserve access.

Oceano Dunes State Vehicular Recreation Area -- commonly called Pismo -- is the only piece of shoreline in California where people can drive and camp on the beach. It's a favorite spot for off-road vehicle riders, many of them San Joaquin Valley residents.

The beach is also home to three threatened and endangered birds and fish. One of those birds is the western snowy plover, whose population on the Pacific coastline is down to 2,000 birds.

At the end of last year's breeding season, scientists discovered just two plovers on the Oceano dunes had survived, out of approximately 70 hatched chicks.

Within weeks, the Sierra Club sued the state in federal court for violating the Endangered Species Act by not protecting the plover and the other species here.

Separately, the California Coastal Commission is considering requiring the state to further restrict vehicles, also to protect the bird's nesting area. A vote is expected next month.

Either a federal judge or the commission could order the beach and dunes closed to vehicles.

That has off-road vehicle users and local businesses worried. The park easily hits its capacity of 1,000 campers on busy weekends. And visitors pump millions of dollars into the local economy, park officials said.

Supporters formed the Friends of the Oceano Dunes to lobby for keeping the beach open to vehicles.

The group will hold a meeting in Bakersfield Saturday to review the lawsuit and rally opposition. A similar meeting in Hanford in February drew as many as 1,000 people, organizers said.

It may seem odd to have huge rallies in the valley for a seaside park 150 miles from Bakersfield. But more than half of the park's 1.25 million annual visitors are from the valley.

"A lot of people from here have been going for generations," said Bakersfield resident Dick Taylor, organizer of Saturday's meeting.

Longtime park visitors have watched all-terrain vehicle access areas shrink to less than half of the park's original size.

"All we're looking for is balance," Taylor said. The park is just a small piece of California's 1,100 miles of shoreline, he said. "This is all we have left to drive on."

Taylor fears Oceano Dunes could end up like the coastline near Vandenberg Air Force Base, which was largely closed to horses and people to protect the plover during its nesting season from March through September.

Protecting wildlife

Tarren Collins, president of the Sierra Club's Santa Lucia chapter, points to Vandenberg as a success story. The rate of hatching chicks has increased there since the base began restricting access to protect the birds.

She said the state is violating the Endangered Species Act by not taking similar measures here.

"They need to get cars out of the area during nesting season," Collins said. "Extreme measures are needed because the species is on the brink of extinction."

Stuck in the middle of the debate is the California Department of Parks and Recreation.

Dunes ecologist Laura Gardner said the park is trying to balance the needs of humans and wildlife.

Every January, the state and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service sit down to plan how to protect the plovers during their nesting season.

Park employees canvass the beach every day to check nests of the plover and the California least tern, another endangered bird on the beach. The tern's future is less precarious than the plover's, Gardner said.

The park has fenced in roughly 164 acres of dunes to protect the plover's primary nesting areas. Those fences are amidst 1,500 acres of sand dunes open to vehicles.

Gardner said although fencing can keep out people and some predators, such as coyotes, the young plovers are grouped together in the enclosed nesting areas making them susceptible to predatory birds.

Recent studies show larger birds are responsible for the deaths of the majority of the the young plovers.

Off-road vehicle proponents complain their sport is being unfairly blamed for reducing the plover population.

But the Sierra Club's Collins said the birds are more vulnerable because they are corralled inside the fences put up to keep them from being run over by off-roaders.

To try to remedy the newest problem, this year the park began concentrating on removing predator birds.

Chief Ranger Andy Zilke said the park has followed the guidance of federal biologists.

He said Oceano Dunes is taking the correct steps to protect the plover, although some groups believe the state isn't doing enough. He also said he thinks off-roading is an appropriate use of the coast in the area.

"I want to protect this access because it's important that people have this," he said, surveying the dunes.

The future of the dunes

The Sierra Club lawsuit against the state is now moving through the U.S. District Court. Off-road groups have asked to intervene in the suit as interested parties, although there hasn't been a judgment on their participation.

The lawsuit has prompted rumors that the beach and dunes are already closed, but it hasn't really slowed visitors.

On Wednesday, the beach was busy with horse riders and all-terrain vehicles scrambling over the dunes. The scattered trucks and campers were just a hint of the crowds that cover the beach during the summer.

Oceano is famous among riders, said Livermore resident Charlie Frerking, 18, who was showing off his skills on an all-terrain vehicle.

"When you think of dunes, you think Pismo," he said, using the park's old name.

Upon arrival to the park he was given a packet of rules and information on the endangered species, he said.

San Luis Obispo resident Robert Elberg and his 12-year-old son, Kirk, cruised over the dunes, taking advantage of the relatively empty beach.

He's seen dunes so crowded with riders that he's turned around and gone home. Elberg heard about the lawsuit and has mixed feelings.

"As long as people are not hurting the environment and are not tearing up stuff, I see nothing wrong with this," Elberg said of the park.

Though only a second-time visitor, Valerie Ballou was thrilled with the park.

"The combination of the dunes in back and the beach in front, it's wonderful," she said. "I would hate to see it closed for everyone."

The Friends of the Oceano Dunes meeting will be held from 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. Saturday at the Kern River Golf Course picnic area near Lake Ming.

Friends of Oceano Dunes (http://www.oceanodunes.org)

04-06-2002, 03:51 PM
who cares if that stupid clover bird dies, or a milkweed, i dount think the world will end if they die

Crowdog
04-07-2002, 08:11 AM
http://www.bakersfield.com/top/story/891113p-980942c.html
Strong show for Pismo
By KERRY CAVANAUGH, Californian staff writer
e-mail: kcavanaugh@bakersfield.com
Saturday April 06, 2002, 10:46:00 PM

Several hundred off-road enthusiasts gathered near Lake Ming Saturday afternoon to show support for the Oceano Dunes -- the only state beach allowing vehicles to drive on the sand.

The future of the popular park is uncertain because of charges that visitors and vehicles are accelerating the decline of a threatened bird, the western snowy plover.

Event organizers said they will challenge any plans to close the dunes.

"We're in this fight for the long haul," Friends of the Oceano Dunes leader Jim Suty told the crowd.

The dunes debate is playing out in the courtroom and political arena. Meeting organizers sought to raise money for the Friends legal fund and galvanize support to keep the dunes open to vehicles.

More than half of the dunes visitors are San Joaquin Valley residents.

There was plenty of support Saturday among the attendees -- many of whom wore T-shirts of favorite off-road parks around the state.

Bakersfield residents Chuck MacKinnon said outside of work, off-road riding is his life.

He's been going to the Oceano Dunes, commonly called Pismo, with his family since childhood.

"I've watched them close more and more" of the park, he said. "I'd hoped my kids would be able to do what I did as a kid."

He worries that may not be possible because of groups seeking to close the park to vehicles.

The Sierra Club sued the state in November for failing to protect the plover and two other endangered species at the Oceano Dunes State Vehicular Recreation Area.

The club's suit came after reports that just two plovers out of nearly 70 hatched chicks survived in 2001. Club members argue vehicles should be kept out of the park during the plover's breeding season from March through September until the bird population recovers.

A hearing date on the federal court case has not been set.

Friends of the Oceano Dunes is trying to intervene in that case, Suty said.

The California Coastal Commission is also scrutinizing the park. The park's permit comes up for renewal in May, and commission staff is expected to recommend more restrictions on vehicles during the bird's breeding season.

Meeting attendees said they were frustrated at the increased attempts to close off-road vehicle areas across the state. Oceano Dunes, which stretches 5.5 miles, is just another example, they said.

"It's public land," said Bakersfield resident Bob Prewett. "Nobody wants to destroy it."

punker69q
04-16-2002, 08:10 PM
I actually care if those not so stupid birds die...
Out planet earth is a very complex thing, and even only the disparition of those birds can make more effects than you can imagine...

Also, I think that those enviromentallist (or somenthing like that...) exagerrate, they probably dont need to close all the dunes to save thoses birds...

It seems that you (the americans guys... in general) dont care alot about the environement, you are probably the country that produce the most pollution on planet earth, and your president (this stupid a-hole, mr bush) dont even seem to believe that the pollution is bad... I have heard him told that the the global warming is not true...

Anyway, I dont want to start a fight, but it's what I think...

Crowdog
04-16-2002, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by punker69q
I actually care if those not so stupid birds die...
Out planet earth is a very complex thing, and even only the disparition of those birds can make more effects than you can imagine...

Also, I think that those enviromentallist (or somenthing like that...) exagerrate, they probably dont need to close all the dunes to save thoses birds...

It seems that you (the americans guys... in general) dont care alot about the environement, you are probably the country that produce the most pollution on planet earth, and your president (this stupid a-hole, mr bush) dont even seem to believe that the pollution is bad... I have heard him told that the the global warming is not true...

Anyway, I dont want to start a fight, but it's what I think...

You are obvioulsy uninformed. Most people that use off-road vehicles do so to enjoy the outdoors and nature. We care about the environment, just not the tactics of the extreme environmentalist movement.

PDunes300ex
04-17-2002, 02:35 PM
Actually the oceano dunes are a very small part of the Snowy Plovers natural habitat (Tip of Baja to the Oregon Coast). The ironic thing is the birds nesting areas are fenced in during breeding season which makes it easier for the influx of natural predators to eat the hatchlings. Off-road enthusiasts are just a scape goat in this unfortunate dilemma. What everybody needs to understand is, if you go to the dunes do your part to clean up after yourselves. Last weekend some buddies and I rode out past comp hill and there was like an acre of broken glass and trash. CLEAN UP YOUR TRASH so that cannot be used as an argument to shut the place down. Also please take the time to get used to riding out there and always ride safe.

Sorry for the length but many visitors are not from the area and locals welcome the extra people, just realize that we have to live hear so do your part to keep it open for future generations to enjoy. :D

DuffManIllusion
04-19-2002, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by punker69q
I actually care if those not so stupid birds die...
Out planet earth is a very complex thing, and even only the disparition of those birds can make more effects than you can imagine...

Also, I think that those enviromentallist (or somenthing like that...) exagerrate, they probably dont need to close all the dunes to save thoses birds...

It seems that you (the americans guys... in general) dont care alot about the environement, you are probably the country that produce the most pollution on planet earth, and your president (this stupid a-hole, mr bush) dont even seem to believe that the pollution is bad... I have heard him told that the the global warming is not true...

Anyway, I dont want to start a fight, but it's what I think...




First off, meathead, generalized statements about MY country and OUR president will get you in a flame war quicker than you can apologize. I think President Bush has handled our countries problems better than most can imagine.

Second, It's safe to say that 95% of atv riders do give a darn about the outdoors. I don't agree with everything atver's do, nor do I agree with what all tree-huggers do, but that is just me.

Call our president a profanity will you? Man, that peeves me :grr :grr :mad:

Crowdog
04-19-2002, 07:43 PM
The California Coastal Commission has set the date for the hearing on Oceano Dunes SVRA. The information is below along with the web site. We need people to attend!
The meeting will be held at the following:
May 2002 Draft Agenda

Hilton Sonoma County
3555 Round Barn Blvd.
Santa Rosa, CA
(707) 523-7555

http://www.coastal.ca.gov/web/mtgcurr.html

WEDNESDAY, MAY 8, 2002

CENTRAL COAST DISTRICT
11. CONDITION COMPLIANCE on Permit No. 4-82-300 (Parks & Recreation, Oceano Dunes SVRA) Annual Review of permit granted to Department of Parks & Recreation for 35,000 linear feet of fencing to keep off-highway recreational vehicles out of sensitive vegetated dunes & wetland environments, and kiosks for access control at Grand Avenue and Pier Avenue, at Oceano Dunes State Vehicular Recreation Area, Oceano, San Luis Obispo County. (SM-SC)

Please send to anyone who you may think would be willing to attend.

Thanks

Don Klusman

punker69q
04-20-2002, 10:58 AM
Hey guys, it's great if you care about the environment. Also, maybe I didn't express my thinking exactly like it is (english is my 2nd language).

But, can you name me something Bush have done for the environment?

Critics scorn US review of anti-pollution law
President George W. Bush's request for a review of one of the most important United States environmental laws could halt government efforts to stop some of the world's largest energy companies from polluting, warn health and environmental advocates.
From: Inter Press Service. 1 August 2001

Being practical about global warming
Fossil fuel lobbyists, US President George Bush and other reactionary politicians have been marginalised by reason. European leaders have promised to ratify the Kyoto Protocol even if the US doesn't take part, and Japan is apparently keen to show that it too is an environmental leader. OneWorld's Climate Change Campaign is a fund of information on the burning issues that govern climate change, and keep track of late-breaking news here too.

Crowdog
04-20-2002, 02:16 PM
Don't believe everything you read in the paper about Global Warming and how Bush doesn't care about the environment. The fact is that Clinton & Gore went too far in the wrong direction to "protect" the environment. We need a balance, and that is what Bush is doing. Here are some facts for you:



Some environmental groups use tactics based more on emotion than scientific evidence. Global warming is but the latest rallying cry for green groups. But the scientific community is divided and undecided about the extent of the threat of global warming. The facts don't support the claims many groups make. Consider the following:
Between 1970 and 1999 carbon monoxide emission levels fell by over 29%.

Unhealthy air days in Los Angeles fell from 173 in 1990 to 27 in 1999.

Automobile emissions decreased by 31% between 1970 and 1999 even though vehicle miles traveled increased 140%.
The United States has experienced no net loss in wetlands since 1980.

Over 17,000 scientists signed a petition stating that, "There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of greenhouse gases is causing or will cause catastrophic heating of the earth's atmosphere."

The Nature Conservancy has 61 chapters, a staff of over 1200 and an annual budget exceeding $230 million.

In 1999, companies and foundations gave an average of $9.6 million every day to environmental organizations.

In fiscal year 2000 the federal government spent $267 billion enforcing environmental regulations.

On average it takes 10 or more years to plan and build a new runway at America's airports primarily because of cumbersome environmental permitting requirements.

Suing on behalf of endangered species has become another "cash cow" not unlike suing cigarette companies. Four firms filed over half of all such suits brought from 1995-2000 totaling $31.6 million in attorney fees.

The environmental group, Southwest Center filed a lawsuit against the federal government an average of every 32 days from 1994-1999.

Former Secretary of the Interior, Bruce Babitt proclaimed that one of the biggest hurdles in protecting endangered species was the flood of lawsuits brought by environmental organization.

Source: www.green-watch.com

04-20-2002, 02:55 PM
bush is the best prez out of the choices we had, bush jus needs to destroy our probs, and wed be perfect

PDunes300ex
04-21-2002, 01:09 AM
Bush is an idiot...if it weren't for dad's clout he would be nothing right now. He cares little for the environment and is perpetuating the idea that our way of life is the only way of life. Sorry but that is just not so. He has handled everything decently so far but what politician couldn't. His public rating was bad at best before 9-11 but now it is soaring, Why? Now defense spending is astronomical and our sons and brothers will die in countries that would be otherwise unknown. The war on terrorism is like the war on drugs.......it will never end. If everybody could just get a honda and get along, things would be so much simpler.

I know i'll get flak for this but come on people open your eyes

Texan32
04-25-2002, 10:57 AM
pDunes-i'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say about Pres Bush. Are you for him? or against? Comming from a military man from Texan...Bush is diong and wll continue to to great things for this country. If you've never lived in Texas, you have no idea how much *** kicking he did there. He has no quams about "terminating" problems. When's the last time Cali 86ed one of its murderers/rapests? I'm not dogging your state, i'm just saying....

And yes, it is going to be a never ending war. Just like the war on drugs. There is no end. But what kind of a superpower would we be if we didn't stand up and try to do something about it. My brothers AND sisters of the Air Force (and other branches) may die, but that is our oath. To DEFEND OUR NATION. Every single one of us joined on our own FREE will. We know exactly what we are in for. And, if loosing one or two of my fellow men so that the incident that took THOUSANDS of lives on 9-11 never happens again, then so be it! I AM willing ot die for the freedom and security of our nation.

Now, i haven't always approved of what the President's (present and past) actions are/were. But, i tolerate it. That what living in this country is all about. If you don't like it...four words "GET THE F@$K OUT". Because if you can't appreciate what this country has to offer good or bad, then you don't deserve to enjoy any of it.

I know this post wasn't supposed to turn into something about our country or the President, but there some things that i WILLNOT tolerate!

Crowdog-those are some of the most inteligent facts that i've ever seen posted here. Thanks for the info. I have never been to Cali, or dunes for that matter. But, if there is anything i can do to help keep Pismo open, just let me know. I would one day like to come out there and ride. If you need signatures, i know alot of ATV riders up here (currently stationed in ND) who are always willing to speak up to keep riding areas open.

PDunes300ex
04-25-2002, 01:50 PM
I admire the intelligent response that you posted in response to my "unjustified" tyrade about Pres. Bush. I think we can agree to disagree on a few small points since...yes Bush is tolerable. Sorry for sending this thread off subject since the conservation of Pismo (Oceano) Dunes for ATV riders is the main subject. Please everybody that reads this...go to the friends of the Oceano dunes website and voice your opinion because if the dunes close it could be your riding area next.
Thanks

02 Red Rider
04-25-2002, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by punker69q
I actually care if those not so stupid birds die...
Out planet earth is a very complex thing, and even only the disparition of those birds can make more effects than you can imagine...

Also, I think that those enviromentallist (or somenthing like that...) exagerrate, they probably dont need to close all the dunes to save thoses birds...

It seems that you (the americans guys... in general) dont care alot about the environement, you are probably the country that produce the most pollution on planet earth, and your president (this stupid a-hole, mr bush) dont even seem to believe that the pollution is bad... I have heard him told that the the global warming is not true...

Anyway, I dont want to start a fight, but it's what I think...

So as not to offend anyone or to get carried away with a long rant about your post punker69q I would like to reply to your post in a few simple close minded words. GO FU(K YOURSELF!!!

Thank You!

Jason

punker69q
04-28-2002, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by 02 Red Rider


So as not to offend anyone or to get carried away with a long rant about your post punker69q I would like to reply to your post in a few simple close minded words. GO FU(K YOURSELF!!!

Thank You!

Jason

Thank you for this subtle and intelligent post...

02 Red Rider
04-29-2002, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by punker69q
It seems that you (the americans guys... in general) dont care alot about the environement, you are probably the country that produce the most pollution on planet earth, and your president (this stupid a-hole, mr bush) dont even seem to believe that the pollution is bad... I have heard him told that the the global warming is not true...
[/B]

Let's see.... your post seems to be quite intelligent. "the americans guys...in general"? And just where are you from? I am curious to know exactly what country you live in that is so clean and has such excellent leadership? Maybe you should think twice about bashing the President of The United States of America because maybe some of us "americans guys" might get offended!

Jason

punker69q
04-30-2002, 08:03 PM
Well, I was talking about the "americans guys" or I could have said the united states of america.
Your country is probably the country that produce the most pollution on planet earth and that consume the most (the most anything...). Also, does kyoto means something for you???

I am from Canada, and even if we are not the "cleanest" country in the world, I personnally think that we have done more than you to reduce our pollution.

This is my opinion, if yours is not the same, well I dont give a f*** about your bashing...

Also, english is my second language, so I dont "ALWAYS" write the things like I think.

p.s. before telling me something like "learn english you dumbass", try to write something in french or spanish if you are so bright...

PDunes300ex
04-30-2002, 09:11 PM
Let's just stop with the stereotyping...or at least put this under a new thread so everybody can have a whack at it. All countries have their problems and their pluses. Canada does not have the population or the politics to be compared to the United States. Let's not forget that we are allies...and if it weren't for us polluters, you would all probably be speaking russian as a first language so just drop it. America is not perfect...but what nation is?

punker69q
05-01-2002, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by PDunes300ex
Let's just stop with the stereotyping...or at least put this under a new thread so everybody can have a whack at it. All countries have their problems and their pluses. Canada does not have the population or the politics to be compared to the United States. Let's not forget that we are allies...and if it weren't for us polluters, you would all probably be speaking russian as a first language so just drop it. America is not perfect...but what nation is?

I completly agree with you, I just said some facts.

mopar 400
05-19-2002, 03:25 PM
ENOUGH>>>> To get back on subject, I am an avid supporter of the dunes, and am headed there wendsday. I believe that all these extreme enviromentalists have good facts, but let me ask you all a question. What do all these Sierra Club members drive and commute and get around town in every day? We as americans are given a choice, and almost all of use use vehicles of some sort. Well 99% of vehicles produced today create pollutants bad for our environment. What the Sierra Club is trying to do is out of hand. I believe in protecting our environment, but if they really want to help, why dont they focus there efforts on the business' that are killing of EVERYTHING in the planet with pollution and toxic waste and let us few hundred thousand that use Oceano Dunes alone!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just had to vent, I will be one upset person in a group of thousands if they get my dune area closed!!!!!!!!!!

Crowdog
05-19-2002, 03:31 PM
Public Land for Public Use Protest Rally
About 14 million acres in California, roughly 14 percent of its total land base, is already designated wilderness, off-limits to motorized vehicles, bicycles, horse-back riding, grazing, logging, mining, oil drilling and other forms of commercial development. Boxer wants to add another 2.5 million acres to that! We're going to speak up and be heard.


What
A gathering of multiple use advocates to protest Senator Boxer's Wilderness Act of 2002 and the continual closure of public land for multiple use

When
Thursday July 11, 2002

Where
Senator Boxer's offices in:
Sacramento, San Bernardino, Los Angeles, San Diego, Fresno

More information:
http://www.crowley-offroad.com/protest_rally.htm

06-15-2002, 10:44 PM
To those Sierra Club, evironmental nazies, and F'n tree huggers, not everyone enjoys the outdoors by eating bark and hugging trees, and not everyone wants to destory the land and kill the animals. Part of going out and riding is getting away from the city and enjoying nature.
To those idiots with no respect for others, nature, or anything, or anyone but yourselves, you have no one to blame but you. If you refuse to tread lightly and respect others as well as nature then you and I will loose our riding areas.
In short I made the 2 1/2 hour drive so that I can continue to enjoy the things I love the most. Being with friends and family outdoors, and better yet riding with friends and family outdoors. :mad:

PismoGuy400
07-19-2002, 11:32 AM
Actually the oceano dunes are a very small part of the Snowy Plovers natural habitat (Tip of Baja to the Oregon Coast). The ironic thing is the birds nesting areas are fenced in during breeding season which makes it easier for the influx of natural predators to eat the hatchlings. Off-road enthusiasts are just a scape goat in this unfortunate dilemma. What everybody needs to understand is, if you go to the dunes do your part to clean up after yourselves. Last weekend some buddies and I rode out past comp hill and there was like an acre of broken glass and trash. CLEAN UP YOUR TRASH so that cannot be used as an argument to shut the place down. Also please take the time to get used to riding out there and always ride safe.

i agree w/ this 100%

wherever there is animals or vegitation growing ... the area is fenced off, and about the garbage...its always around...people camp out...have camp fires and some beer...they let the fire go and it goes out, but they leave the beer bottles and cans...this really pisses people off.....

they give you garbage bags for a reason...use them!!

nacs400ex
08-14-2002, 04:25 PM
This non-sense is everywhere, i hate it when people leve their garbage. Some atvers have to go and reck it.... for everyone.


Hello Fellow PUNKER !
i am from Canada and enjoy punk.... but anywho...what you need to do is shut the **** ** because it doesnt really matter whos country is cleaner :confused: , obviously the population in the USA is more than Canada so, of course there is going to be more pollution. and why are we even talking about countries lol, wasnt this thread about keeping Pismo open ?

I havent been to pismo, but i do not want some tree huggers ruining the oppurtunity for everyone to ride there.

:grr :grr

08-17-2002, 12:09 AM
I live just a few hours north of Pismo.....this crap has been going on forever in California......not just Oceano Dunes (Pismo), but everywhere in California....I can't take it anymore......it's always the damn tree huggers that whine and cry about the dumbest stuff. I mean, I don't want to see any animals go extinct, but this "snowy plover" or whatever the **** you call it, nests and breeds up and down the west coast of the United States. NOT JUST CALIFORNIA. I'm telling you, it's the tree huggers and yuppies of California that have nothing better to do than attack off roaders, ATVers, and dirt bikers....you don't see any of this crap happening in Oregon and Washington do you? Of course you don't.....because people who are into politics and live in California always have something to cry about.....they have nothing better to do.....they have closed part of Pismo to save the endangered "cheese weasel" or whatever, LOL, but that isn't going to cure the problem....there is still other predators, survival of the fittest, and the process of evolution....I won't be surprise if they close a huge chunk of Glamis because of a endangered species. And who determines and decides on what exactly a endangered species is? How many can be left to be considered "endangered"? I'd like to talk to that person.....OH, I am just goin' off now.....LOL....let me get back on track....here's the deal. I care about our environment, do my part to keep it clean and safe, and respect rules and regulations especially at riding areas.....in the past 20 years I have been riding, probably half of the areas near my house have been closed.....they weren't Bureau Of Land Management areas, or even Forest Service Land.....just public property that people would go and ride and have a good time....until some damn yuppy punk would whine about erosion or something (there was no erosion problem at all), and that's all it takes in California to ruin a good time. One person. Just one person to complain to the right person, start a petition, and take it to court.....blah, blah, blah,blah, blah......I have so much more to say, but I will stop here. You guys might get the wrong impression about me..LOL..but I am so fed up with this stuff going down in California......Oh, one more thing....this RED STICKER program? Who was the genius that made this up? Can I get that persons phone number? For those of you who don't know what I am talking about, it has to do with your registration. Some bikes, like a majority of ATVs and entry level four stroke dirt bikes get GREEN stickers. And 2 strokes get RED stickers. But, for example, 2002 and newer Honda CRF 450s can get either a green sticker or red sticker, depending on their VIN #'s. THEY ARE THE SAME BIKE! How can this be you ask? Because the Department Of Vehicles in California is so screwed up it's not even funny. So, what it comes down to is, if you have a green sticker bike, you can ride on any designated area in California any time of the year. But, if you have a red sticker bike (2 strokes and high performance 4 strokes), you can only ride certain times of the year.....like the summer months....sorry you can't ride....I guess they figure that the pollution from a 2 stroke is just a huge burden on the already huge problem of smog in Southern California....so, if you wanna move to California and ride your dirt bike or ATV, make sure it's a green sticker 4 stroke, because if it's not, you are screwed.....one more thing and then I'll go.....have you seen the price of a gallon of regular gas in California lately? It's not unlikely that you will see it fluctuating at the $2.00/gallon price...or more.....and how about the price of houses you ask? The average price of a home in Palo Alto (Central California) is now just over 1 million dollars....seriously.....3 bedroom 2 bath....what a joke....and that is with just the house...no property...you've got a drive way, small side yard, small back yard...$1,000,000.00......that is alot of zeros.....ok, ok, I am finished....I must go now....you guys probably think I am some whack-o, but trust me, if you lived in California, you would be the same way.......Later on....

250boy
08-20-2002, 12:55 PM
well i live right in pismo so how the ***k do you think i feel. every other month the sierra club trys to shut us down, even when we close off a quarter of the beach. and its not just the tree huggers that want to shut us down, its the people that moved into the houses by the entrance of the beach. they always complain about noise and shiit. the town lives on the beach's money income. buisnesses would all be shut down if the beach were closed. My mom works for the oceano dunes district office and she always gets calls from people asking if the beach is going to be closed, no! not as long as we fight. really the main reason why they want to shut us down is to put in a good name in for california. All you tree-huggers, ***K OFF!!!

FullBore52
08-20-2002, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by MotoMan26
you don't see any of this crap happening in Oregon and Washington do you?

It does happen here, just not on as big of a scale. The state of oregon gets ALOT of its income from duners and off roaders paying for permits and things. They probably wont shut it down here, but they might in california...but that would mean even more people crowding into the oregon dunes...:(

balla250ex
09-03-2002, 03:11 PM
Yea why don't they just get there endangered little thingies that most ppl have never even heard of and put them in a zoo...

RobG
09-06-2002, 09:06 AM
Guys:

The environmental whackos really aren't out to save the environment, at least not the truly hard-core ones. Sure there are those who will swear day in and day out that the whole point is to save the planet, but the truth is, the environmental movement is based in communism.

They won't stop until they've closed off everything from the public and destroyed the economy, making everyone dependent on the government. Then we'll be where the Soviet Union was thirty years ago.

Here's a great example: They're trying to kill the diesel truck market by forcing new emissions standards on them several years before the industry will be able to comply. The industry WANTS to comply but isn't being given the time they need to do so. Does the the EPA and the Sierra Club care? Nope, because the whole point is to destroy that industry, and that's what will happen. It won't be long before you can't buy a diesel pickup in Kalifornia because of this, and then the same thing will likely happen in the rest of the country.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to preserve the environment and the planet. The problem is how they're going about it and the fact that their motives are much different than they appear. Only if we stand up and put a stop to it will we preserve liberty and our way of life.

Rob

QuadTrix6
10-20-2002, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by balla250ex
Yea why don't they just get there endangered little thingies that most ppl have never even heard of and put them in a zoo...


roflmao

ryanh250ex
10-21-2002, 09:14 PM
new jersey is BY FAR under the most pressure by the tree huggers. i have visited California and i think it's a beautiful place (my uncle lived in Santa Monica for a few years), but you have plenty of riding areas. be happy that you have them, NJ has 1 legal area to ride. and on top of that, we dont just get NJ riders either, people come from connecticut (sp?) long island, staten island, even from PA to ride.this riding area aint even that big either. it is currently under a 10- year lease (which means that it can't be closed down until 2008) but whether it will be running for another 10 years is up in the air currently. the NJ DEP promises at least 2 more riding areas by 2005, but everyone and their mother knows they're not telling the truth. illegal riding is rampant and skyrocketing and it's because quite simply, unless you have your own land to ride, there is nowhere to ride. the state thinks they can curb this by thowing $1000 fines each plus impounding quads, well guess what it aint happening. you wanna curb illegal riding? the only way to do it is open up the forests and the wildlife preserves. while my statements might sound self-centered and have a "pity us" sound, i hope pismo stays open.


please, anyone in the Northeastern part of the US should help us NJ riders out by writing letters and petitions. we are on the verge of being shut down completely.

josh
11-11-2002, 09:53 PM
aight punker69, i don't like that you are so "intelligent" and "stereotyping" "the american guys" the way you are, you say america is prob the most polluting country, bull hunky, that's german if you don't know, look at china, there are no pollution or regulations for factories and any vehicles, my ol world history teacher visited that place a few years ago and said she now understands why the asian people have no tan, cuz they hardly ever see the sun from all the freegin pollution out there, in china, the kids in school have a hard time studying the sun cuz if they look up all they see is a somewhat bright blurr through all the smog, it's pretty horribly sad of all the pictures we seen, you have to travel about 2,000 miles into the country were there is no cities, jus small towns so you can look at the freegin sun, so don't go off making ignorant posts about the american people, i do agree that we have a-holes here that don't clean up and go ripping through bushes and crap like that, but isn't that part of society, go to mexico and the pollutoin from the people is sooo much worse, or go to many other countries besides the continent of the america's, there's a whole world of corruption and pollution outside of this continent, so wake up and go take a world history course, maybe read a few books about WORLD history, jus don't go off making ignorant statements about the american people, we call each other friendly neighbors and let's keep it that way

josh
11-11-2002, 10:05 PM
what about the environmentalists trying to shut down glammis, the "sand mecca of the world" that would break my heart, cuz glammis is awesome for any style riding and there is soo much fun riding to do out there, the only thing they have to preach about being endangered is some little lizzard that lives in this milweed plant out in the middle of no-where were there is huge atv attractions, i'm sure were the sand dunes stop and you see miles of plants there is plenty of little lizards there, besides, how often do you see plants in the dunes in yuma, common now, at buttercup you might see a small 5 foot patch of some really long grass looking thing, that's all, ya, i'm sure that supports such a big factor for some poor lizzard, what gives, half the lizzards prob die every time a wind storm hits the places anyways, and there isn't much vegitation that can grow out there cuz the wind-storms will cover a small plant in less than a day so..............:huh :confused: :rolleyes:

Davids440ex
11-22-2002, 01:07 AM
i'll be there red and black plastic red frame #29 400 and a yellow plastic yellow frame 400. look for me there.

ROGERS
01-05-2003, 06:03 PM
THE ERUPTION OF MOUNT PINATUBO (sp?) SENT MORE POLLUTION INTO THE AIR THAN ALL OF THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES IN THE WORLD OF ALL TIME, COMBINED. YET THE "FRAGILE" ENVIRONMENT CLEANED ITSELF UP WITH IN A FEW YEARS. DON'T GIVE HUMANS MORE CREDIT THAN WE DESERVE. THE ENVIRONMENT IS A WHOLE LOT STRONGER THAN YOU THINK.

lil400exman
01-23-2003, 11:11 AM
alos the country that has the most emssions is india cause there engines have no emission regualtions at all so dont ride us about being wasteful i know we all have our problems..............just like a engine........on the outside it can look good but on the inside it can be crap or vise versa and the us has a bad rap but actually its not all that bad.............also as a fact it would take 1 banshee running for 3 1/2 days to equal one city bus that chugs out the black stuff why dont the enviromentalists beat them? cause they know that it supports the industry toooo much they think ohh off roaders are easy to push over so we will start with them just wait until off road machines go then all things that create emissons are at risk......................ohh and i got a pic of the bird and its hatchlings...............

roostu
02-23-2003, 08:32 PM
I have only one thing to say about Bush and military spending. We may not agree about the reason we are gearing up to war but, Think about the people that are in the Military, especially the reservists that are called to active duty (and there families). I know a lot of my friends that are taking pay cuts when they are called to active duty.

Some of the spending increases go to the soldiers salary.

We need to remember that even if we do not agree with the war we should NEVER take that feeling out on the soldiers who server our country.

~Roost-U

300exTJjeeper
02-27-2003, 12:45 AM
WHere are those ECO NAZIS!!!!!!!!

They trying to close my Pismo Dunes down, hell no, I hate those people. I'll be there with my Big A** Jeep and my quad. It's bad enough what Clinton did to Glamis and now this.

Can't be losing our Dunes to the ECO NAZIS>

300exTJjeeper
02-27-2003, 12:48 AM
ANd with Bush and the US goign to WAR I Agree, I served 5 years in the Marines. And I rember CLinton was such a tight A** he never like the Military and cut our budjet why down. And it got to the point where I was giving money to buy filter for my Bull Dozer.

THen Bush came along and fixed it all up. I hate the CLINTONS!!!!!!!!! DAMN FOOLS all of them

310Rduner
03-10-2003, 10:47 PM
texan32,

that is EXACTLY how i feel, and i havent served time in the military.. it just takes people a little common sense, and PRIDE in our country to realise this.

i am still in school, and i am constantly refraining myself from getting into arguments with every dumbass that says crap about OUR government...... they really should just get the fugg out, cause no one is keeping them here but themselves and if they hate it so much, the door swings outward... everyone is entitled to an opinion, but when it is disrespectful, and flat out hateful of our government, then they should stfu. this is the only government we have and i would not want any other..

thank you for protecting our great country, and doing what it takes to keep our world safe from faqqs liek saddamm and other terrorists...

i will be saving your post to reply to other dumbarss remarks such as ones previously stated because often times people forget the opinions of soldiers, and that its what you signed up for .....
good luck to you and your fellow soldiers

maverick
03-17-2003, 02:01 PM
99% of all animals are extinct. You cant save every bird in the nest (no pun intended) so why try? If you close down Glamis, the duners will go anyways. They dont make fast enough police cars to catch me through the dunes.

The ATV industry generates millions of dollars, a big portion comes from duners. The sandrail makret generates even more because most all of them ride the dunes. There too much money to lose and I dont think they will be closing the dunes, especcially with our current president.

On the bush issue.......Bush isnt an idiot, he is a coward. If he had any backbone at all he would turn the middle east sand into glass and go for the oil.