I didn't realize tireballs came stock in quads

After wondering how the heck so many stock quads (GNCC stock class) did so good and didn't get any flats at the rausch creek race I did some investigating on these quads.

Well after many many hours and long nights I found that some stock quads are coming from the dealer with tireballs....:eek2: I wish my quad came with them...:(

OK all joking aside but I never new tireballs were allowed in the stock class until after the rausch race:confused: WTF is that class really about.:confused: I know we've had several debates and good threads about the stock class and I find it to be more of an open class. IMO i think tireballs should NOT be allowed in that class.. :o

What are your thoughts on this??

Wingnut, Tyler and Harlum be easy on me please...:D

[Shawn H]

Should not be allowed.
IMO there not very stock to me.

[roostin_dale]

I don't know much about GNCC but the stock class is supposed to keep the quads cheaper right? Well, I don't think you should run $1,000 Tireballs in a stcok class....

[Doibugu2]

I never understand why we always have to make exceptions for this or that.

Stock is stock, if you add anything other than what is necessary for safety reasons, the quad is no longer stock, right!

[jcsact]

JMO But stock should be as stock as the day it rolled it off the showroom floor. It does suck however that some stock quads have better suspensions but they should not be allowed to change them to Aftermarket parts that also have rezzies. And if they are going to make it that if a stock set of shocks that has rezzies can have aftermarket with rezzies then all of them should be able too have rezzies.

Should you be able to gusset a stock frame? It didn't come that way from the factory. I know most ATVs will not stand the abuse that you guys put on them with factory equipment but I don't think they should be considered stock either.

What about tires? They are not stock either. We could go on and on.

I have seen a lot of other style racing (mainly auto racing) have a $$$ limit to there rides to help the racers out is this what the stock class is for, to help the lower budget racers play too?

[BUCK442]

I think the question should be:

DO TIREBALZ IMPROVE SUSPENSION PERFORMANCE???

According to Yokley and others YES!

Just does not make any damn since. You cant change a $12 air filter but you can add 1000 tirebalz. Heck I might as well go back to the 4stroke A class. :confused:

[Bill Fuller]

Tire Balls should not be allowed in the stock class.Theres nothing stock about a $1000 dollar add on.Cheating 100% plain and simple!!!

[jlhughes750]

HHHMMMM contraversial!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!sp


Good point Rico!!!!!!

Also, what about Pro.?????

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by jlhughes750
HHHMMMM contraversial!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!sp


Good point Rico!!!!!!

Also, what about Pro.????? What about Pro? Pro is not a stock class.

[BUCK442]

Based on the ATV scene interview OL Papa Fro would only have to change 3 items on his quad and he could run stock. :p

[jlhughes750]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
What about Pro? Pro is not a stock class.

yes but it is "limited" to stock frames and engine cases....they did that for a reason........ what if all the sudden RP thought it was more exciting to watch with the added suspense of flat tires on the Pro's quads... ?

I do support Tire Balls, its just an interesting topic to debate.

Originally posted by jlhughes750


its just an interesting topic to debate.





:devil:

I always seem to have a hand on the spoon in the chit bucket. It needs a good stirrin once in a while....:p

[Hammer trx450r]

Do they make you run stock tires in stock class? Getting a flat sucks in any class. I think the 1000 dollar price tag is what needs to be argued

[BUCK442]

The price should not make a diff it is the PERFORMANCE GAIN!

Originally posted by Hammer trx450r
Do they make you run stock tires in stock class? Getting a flat sucks in any class. I think the 1000 dollar price tag is what needs to be argued

Tires are tires since they can all get flats. But having a flat proof tire is a WHOLE nother ball game.

Most of us tip-toed thru half of the rausch creek course while those on "stock" quads blitzed thru those sections like it was a paved road....:huh


And while i'm still stirrin up the pot, how can one be checked for tire balls..:confused: I've seen some tires with the bulges on the sidewall and I"ve also seen tires with no bulges and you would have no idea there were tire balls inside...:confused:

[Hammer trx450r]

Don't get me wronge I'm all for a level playing ground but its like beating a dead horse. I have been beat by MX quads that had 25 to 30 g's into them all my life, but i had to bite the bullet and spend the coin to hang with them. Rico how many guys there were wishing they had your mods on there bike? As far as tires go some guys cant afford new 20 ply tires either. Just trying to make a point guys but if i were to vote i would vote them out to level the playing field

Originally posted by Hammer trx450r
Rico how many guys there were wishing they had your mods on there bike?

Plenty of them have dam near stock quads some have every possible part replaced but my class isn't labeled STOCK class..:D


I couldn't imagine racing a stock quad and I have full respect for the top riders in that class for running stock quads on such demanding courses but those who have tire balls have a HUGE advantage over those that don't.

Believe me I'd love to run tire balls since I have a thing about flat tires but I just can't afford them and more par to those that can afford them but I just question this so called stock class in the GNCC's.:confused:

[Hammer trx450r]

point taken, It does seem alittle like cheating when flats are so much a part of your race

[Wingnut]

I'm gald y'all don't make the rules. I'd go broke racing in a true stock class. Contrary to what many people believe, racing a truely stock quad would not be cheap. It may be the cheapest way to show up on the line of the first race, but it would not be cheap from there on out. Rico, you're right, in a way, the stock class is a lot like an open class. We can do just about anything as long as we don't improve the performance.

Now, on to the Tire Balls subject. It seems like only the sponsored riders and people who have never ridden with Tire Balls know how good they really are. When I switched to Tire Balls, I did notice a difference. The tires had a lot more roll in turns and I could feel the tires bottoming out on the smallest of rocks and roots(just like the stock tires :blah: ). They are not like a second set of suspension as some have said. I'm used to running 5.5 to 6 psi, and the Tire Balls are set at 4.5psi. In my opinion the change was from the loss of pressure, not some magical design. I now run a pound of air in the front tires which got rid of the symptoms. It didn't work for the back though. I have talked to a couple of other Tire Balls owners and and it seems that the only real advantage is not having to carry a second set of tires.

[Johnny_G]

Ok here is my .02 I do not think you should be able to change anything on a stck class machine.

Safety only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I beleive it should be stock as the day it sat on the dealer floor.
-Stock wheels
-stock shocks
-stock tank
-stock stem
-stock seat cover
-stock tie rods
-stock EVERTHING

Only thing changed should be Bars, and a kill switch, orr safety add ons like nerfs......Thats IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I think it is absolutley absurd that when i look down the stck class line i see Elka shocks, and Beadlocks, and Tireballs, and IMS tanks, and aftermarket stems, and gripper seats, and all kinds of aftermarket upgrades

STOCK CLASS SHOULD MEAN STOCK BIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:macho

Ok I am done now:blah:

[BUCK442]

I dont have any spares to start with, all mine are on honda rims:confused:

Come on now Will, really no performance gain. Seems like I remember Yokley stating that it worked like a suspension componet. I also remember Yokley running faster lap times with tire balz than with out on the same machine. In all reality Shocks do not make your quad faster, just handle better and you can hit the ruff stuff even faster same goes for the TB's.

What is the diff between shocks and T balz.:devil:

[cliq20]

this argument could get ugly. those who have them and can afford them definitely do not want to go back. those who can't afford them (like me) or want to make a stock class truely "stock" are going to vote against. a similar arguement can be made for beadlocks in a sense (not completely but they can at least get you back to the pits easier and you can run a little lower pressure in them). you can still put a lot of money in a "stock" quad to be able to race and be competitive. i would think the tire makers and the manufacturers would want a say in this issue. the more stock the quad is and the more tires you buy would make them happier i'm sure...

Wingnut do you think you could have won the overall in Rausch without Tireballs??

I know that's an answer that your really can't truly answer but if you had to pit lets say 2 times to change flats would you have been able to make it back to the front??

I"m not picking on you or trying to make you look bad either so dont' take it the wrong way Will. Just using you as an example, Harlen did very well in that race also and I believe he runs tireballs also..:confused:

I didn't start the thread to say tireballs help quads handle better but they definitly keep you from making pits stops to change tires which could add up to several minutes of lost time. And that's not including the time lost for not being able to hammer down in sections were an inflated tire makes a world of difference over a flat one. Going thru the section below with a flat front was no fun.. I know the flat tires killed me at rausch and hurt my finishing position tremendously..


http://ricoracing.netfirms.com/2004_gncc_pics/RauschCreek/rocks1.jpg

[Johnny_G]

Originally posted by Wingnut
We can do just about anything as long as we don't improve the performance.

I have talked to a couple of other Tire Balls owners and and it seems that the only real advantage is not having to carry a second set of tires.

Reguardless of how small an advantage it is, if you factor in not having to change a tire, that will cost an average of 3 minutes between riding it flat back to the pits, and chagin the tire. and figure that you will average 3-4 flats per season thats 12 minutes, or roughly 51 seconds per race that you are gaining!!!!!!!!!

SO how is that not a performance advantage???????

Not trying to piss ya off wingnut, i have never met you, and I think you are a really good guy......but all this aftermarket stuff in the stock class is crazy!!!!!

[465Stroker]

I would assume that in 2005 Racer Productions will totally revamp the Stock class rules to bring the class back to it's original intent - A stock class for the guys/gals looking to get into GNCC racing without all the thousands of dollars needed to be competative in the other modified classes. It had nothing to do with the cost of racing or how much money was in your quads - it was just a great place for someone to start there career.


As of late tho there have been a ton of riders with A or even Pro level experience racing in the stock class BUT do not want to give up all the nice aftermarket goodies that they were use too in the past like: larger tanks, steering stablizers, foot peg extensions, aftermarket shocks, etc. Some even argued these items were needed for safety reasons - lol....


Hopefully by 2005 there will be a "Production Stock Class" - Basically what stock class use to be a few years ago -no aftermarket shocks, seat covers, tire balls, etc. Then they can start a Stock "A" Class that would basically let you run aftermarket front shocks and tire balls with stock engines, filters, etc.

They may even have to start a Stock "B" class too.

[Wingnut]

Originally posted by Rico
Wingnut do you think you could have won the overall in Rausch without Tireballs??

I know that's an answer that your really can't truly answer but if you had to pit lets say 2 times to change flats would you have been able to make it back to the front??


True, I can't say for sure. But after Rausch Creek I had no punctures. Even the cracked wheel still held air. Besides, the entire race I was behind someone who didn't have Tire Balls, and their pace was about all I could take with stock shocks. Look at the two people next to me on the podium. Neither had Tire Balls, but still finished 2nd and 4th overall. Angel, who lead most of the race, runs the same tires I do and, like me, had no punctures. Mark had two rear flats and almost beat me after coming from the back of the pack. There is no product that can give an undeserving rider the win. I know Tire Balls are played up that way, but they just can't do it.


Originally posted by BUCK442
Come on now Will, really no performance gain. Seems like I remember Yokley stating that it worked like a suspension componet. I also remember Yokley running faster lap times with tire balz than with out on the same machine. In all reality Shocks do not make your quad faster, just handle better and you can hit the ruff stuff even faster same goes for the TB's.

What is the diff between shocks and T balz.

There are a lot of reasons why Yokley could have been faster. I rode faster after getting new fenders last year. Did the fenders do anything for me? Some times it's just knowing something is different.

If you're trying to get me to let you try them, I'm not going to fall for it. ;)

[Ryan]

I agree, The stock class should mean stock. Theres no point calling it a stock class when most machines that race in the stock class are far from stock!

[Johnny_G]

Originally posted by 465Stroker
I would assume that in 2005 Racer Productions will totally revamp the Stock class rules to bring the class back to it's original intent - A stock class for the guys/gals looking to get into GNCC racing without all the thousands of dollars needed to be competative in the other modified classes. It had nothing to do with the cost of racing or how much money was in your quads - it was just a great place for someone to start there career.


As of late tho there have been a ton of riders with A or even Pro level experience racing in the stock class BUT do not want to give up all the nice aftermarket goodies that they were use too in the past like: larger tanks, steering stablizers, foot peg extensions, aftermarket shocks, etc. Some even argued these items were needed for safety reasons - lol....


Hopefully by 2005 there will be a "Production Stock Class" - Basically what stock class use to be a few years ago -no aftermarket shocks, seat covers, tire balls, etc. Then they can start a Stock "A" Class that would basically let you run aftermarket front shocks and tire balls with stock engines, filters, etc.

They may even have to start a Stock "B" class too.

E X A C T L Y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well said Rick

[BUCK442]

Well said Johnny G and Stroker. I agree a Stock A class is needed for sure!

Does any one at RP see any of this chatter I wonder?

Hey Will; since I cant try your aftermarket goodies you cant try my super go fast aerodynamic get tha he** outta my way bumper!:D

[cdalejef]

I know that my lap times improved with Tireballs! You can ride much more aggressively through rough or rocky sections. The balls aid in soaking up small sharp obsticals without transfering the hit to the chassis. Traction is also greatly improved.

[jlhughes750]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
I know that my lap times improved with Tireballs! You can ride much more aggressively through rough or rocky sections. The balls aid in soaking up small sharp obsticals without transfering the hit to the chassis. Traction is also greatly improved.


That says it all!!!!!!!!!!!


Rico u really started a smelly one here:eek:

Man the Polaris, YFZ and new R really spoiled the fun in the stock class. I had a blast last year on the EX. it was like an IROC series for quads.

[CatMostFeared]

Originally posted by Johnny_G
Ok here is my .02 I do not think you should be able to change anything on a stck class machine.

Safety only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I beleive it should be stock as the day it sat on the dealer floor.
-Stock wheels
-stock shocks
-stock tank
-stock stem
-stock seat cover
-stock tie rods
-stock EVERTHING

Only thing changed should be Bars, and a kill switch, orr safety add ons like nerfs......Thats IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I think it is absolutley absurd that when i look down the stck class line i see Elka shocks, and Beadlocks, and Tireballs, and IMS tanks, and aftermarket stems, and gripper seats, and all kinds of aftermarket upgrades

STOCK CLASS SHOULD MEAN STOCK BIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:macho

Ok I am done now:blah:

What Johnny says

[BUCK442]

Originally posted by jlhughes750
That says it all!!!!!!!!!!!


Rico u really started a smelly one here:eek:

Man the Polaris, YFZ and new R really spoiled the fun in the stock class. I had a blast last year on the EX. it was like an IROC series for quads.

True. Nice job Rico I am glad someone mentioned it!:devil:

Originally posted by BUCK442
True. Nice job Rico I am glad someone mentioned it!:devil:

Probably be gettin my *** kikked on the startin line at the VA race....:o

LMFAO



I hope everyone that runs tireballs doesn't think i'm trying to take away their talent and saying tireballs wins the races for them, because that is not true. I"m talking about the stock class itself and anyone in it that runs tireballs..:cool:

[BUCK442]

Here is what makes up my STOCK class quad;

1. Bumper
2. Belly and Swinger Skids
3. Moose Bars,Oury Grips
4. Maxxis R II front Razor reg rear tires/ WO tb's
5. PD Kill switch
6. P Brake block off plate

All else is like it rolled outta the dealership,Pipe and all its internal parts INTACT, Stock Jetting,Stock Filter set up,No timing cam mod, No revalved shocks. No beadlocks,No steel braided brake lines.

To me that is as close as you can get to a properly setup GNCC stock quad. Am I wrong???:)

[Tommy 17]

tire balls are def not stock... i saw so many flats at rausch it wasn't even funny... u could tell who had them bc they never let off on the rocks...


i just wanna know how a elka shock can be stock:o i know it don't have rezzy but still its valved to ur specific weight:rolleyes: and its still 100x better then stock

[MOFO]

Good topic Rico...

I've always wondered where this "gray" area was that made a quad "open" or "stock".... the line seems to be a little blurry. :confused:

[cdalejef]

Oh....I just thought of something. Tire Balls are available in ATK's from the factory. That kinda changes things.

[cliq20]

Originally posted by BUCK442
Here is what makes up my STOCK class quad;

1. Bumper
2. Belly and Swinger Skids
3. Moose Bars,Oury Grips
4. Maxxis R II front Razor reg rear tires/ WO tb's
5. PD Kill switch
6. P Brake block off plate

All else is like it rolled outta the dealership,Pipe and all its internal parts INTACT, Stock Jetting,Stock Filter set up,No timing cam mod, No revalved shocks. No beadlocks,No steel braided brake lines.

To me that is as close as you can get to a properly setup GNCC stock quad. Am I wrong???:)

That sounds like a "stock" setup - at least probably what was intended. You should be able to change all of those things - but I also think you should be able to change the air filter - some may run with airbox lid off and the stock filter does not protect the engine as well. Even if you didn't have the lid off I would probably want to change the air filter. What about jetting?

[BUCK442]

Jetting is STOCK for me, and the Lid is on!

Thanks for the backing Cliq:D

[Pappy]

i agree, there needs to be a split stock class, or open as it was stated.

riding on a true stock machine is for the severly mentally disabled:p i have much respect for those that do it and finish way ahead of those with um-teen million dolla's in thier ride.

id like to have tire balls myself, just for the "i dont get flats" syndrome:devil: but alas they are too much $$$ for this hombre'.



"those that are playing the grey area are doing nothing more then what every nascar team has ever done":D

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
Oh....I just thought of something. Tire Balls are available in ATK's from the factory. That kinda changes things.


Yep.... I guess that would change things if its an option on a new quad from the factory.

...interesting.... kinda puts a spin on things now. :eek:


EDIT: thought of something...

But this option only comes on ATK's then, not honda, yami....etc. Just for conversation, could a guy put a "stock" 450R motor in a 400EX and race it in a stock class? Its a stock motor offered from the factory....

[1fastprototype]

I see your list Buck and I personally think even you have crossed the stock limit. Safety items only. Nerfs and kill switch. You should look down that stock line and not be able to tell which quad is yours from the same brand. If you crash and bend your handle bars you order a new set of stock handle bars, if you slice a tire you order a new stock tire, if you go to fast in the rocks and smash your flimsy stock skid plate thats part of racing and you go order a new stock skid. If the people in this class don't like it perfect there just happens to be 20 other classes you can choose from with an unlimited money supply in parts added to there quads. Hell if you want to be adding questionable things to compete in a class go buy a wig and try runnin with the girls.:D

[jb500ex]

i agree they should be able too change their tires but definately shouldn't be allowed too have tire balls. if everyone ran the stock dunlops at rausch everyone would have four flats a lap

[lshonda310]

Originally posted by 1fastprototype
If you crash and bend your handle bars you order a new set of stock handle bars, if you slice a tire you order a new stock tire, if you go to fast in the rocks and smash your flimsy stock skid plate thats part of racing and you go order a new stock skid.

so you would probably need new handle bars, tires, rear brake rotor, chain, and sprockets for every race. That sounds like the cheaper way to race

[Ryan]

For 2005 they should add another class. Stock class (just about everything stock), and Semi stock (Certain things can pass). IMO it would make alot more sense.

A few guys that already added a few "extra's" and wanted to start racing, they won't have to race against super competitive machines, they can race in the semi stock class.

I don't if that would work, though?

[speedracer350X]

How about for certain classes, say stock, everyone runs Maxxis Razr II's, no tire balls, for example. Maxxis should sell them to every racer for a good price, say showing you registration card or whatever, just so everyone is kinda on a level playing field?? Just my .02. I don't agree with tireballs at all, or then everyone should be using them, but seems like everything else, all about $$$$$$.

[cliq20]

i don't know how they would know if your lid was off, if it was jetted, or even bored out just a little. those would be hard to tell. i do agree with changing skids and tires though. you talk about saving money in the long run...
those stock parts are outrageous in price, the tires are not made for XC for the most part and like was said, you would be buying all new parts every race. that's just not feasable. i like buck's setup. but like i said how would you know what they were doing internally unless you had random engine inspections like nascar? what a pain. then you would run into the decibel testing issue...

this could go on for a while...
two stock classes would work and make them run factory stock and modified stock...


either way they're going to be popular classes...

[TRX500]

Originally posted by cliq20
i don't know how they would know if your lid was off, if it was jetted, or even bored out just a little. those would be hard to tell.

I have wondered the same thing. I'll bet quite a few have had the motor apart. At Sparta a guy in front of me was trying to run stock and was made to go to C class. He argued with the woman for 5 minutes that his Honda was stock because his HRC kit came on the bike. :rolleyes:

[Meek]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
I know that my lap times improved with Tireballs! You can ride much more aggressively through rough or rocky sections. The balls aid in soaking up small sharp obsticals without transfering the hit to the chassis. Traction is also greatly improved.

Tireballs change your attitude about running over something, before I had tireballs I would be more cautious when I would hit a small stump or a rocky section. Now I don't care what I run over. I got a 1in gash in my sidewall in Texas, and it is growing. It is almost 3in now. I have sticks and thorns in my tread and are still running strong with tireballs. It is just peace of mind for me.

[Shawn H]

I agree with Jeff and Meek
its mindset for me knowing I can hit and run over what ever I want and not have to slow down or dodge anything.

I have to disagree with a few:
Tireballz I believe help with suspension and traction considerably and dampen some hits that would otherwise pound the hell out of your quad and self.

[Martin Blair]

I think stock needs to be stock. Like you go buy it off the showroom floor, and only add a teather kill and some skids, that is it. No shcoks, tires, or anything like that.

If i were going to cheat at stock class i would run a damn 416 ex in it with stock filter, carb and exhaust. They ant going to know if its a true 400 or not.

[popo]

I would bet money, if they moved the stock class back 3 or 4 rows, there would be allot of stock class riders spent the money on mods to get back the advantage of running in the second row.. what ever they called it, Morning 4 stroke A.

[Tarrat 103]

Originally posted by Rico
And while i'm still stirrin up the pot, how can one be checked for tire balls..:confused: I've seen some tires with the bulges on the sidewall and I"ve also seen tires with no bulges and you would have no idea there were tire balls inside...:confused:

If you suspected someone of running them. R-P tech could just let the air out of them, and if they still look like a round tire ...then their illegal.......;)

Also I think the popularity of the stock class is not so much about it being an inexpen$ive racing class, but has more to do with the consistent second or first row starting position. I feel if they were to alternate the starting order each race, this class may lose some of its current popularity....just $.02

I also agree with Johnny_G. & Stroker on the stock class formats.
....tarrat:cool:

[jlhughes750]

IMO....... stock is stock.not stock A or B or stock and stock mod............... Stock class is stock class!!!!!!!!! If u want to run anything else on the quad then run open A,B,or C.


just my .02

if theyre gonna split it then make it stock 0-400 and stock 400- open..............its the only way.

[cliq20]

splitting into new classes would also help in crowding. and i'm sure manufacturers would like a pure stock class - similar to bucks setup and modified stock - with aftermarket shocks w/o rezzies, tire balls, air filters, etc. i still think skids and tires are a must. who's going to spend 100 on plastic stock skids each race plus 4 new 100 plus (OEM price) each stock tires.

i still think C should start in front of the utes. the post on the starting position does have a good point about that. it helps tremendously to not have to fight the utes.

it would seem that some C riders should beat the stock riders in the overall with all the mods. wouldn't you think?

Originally posted by cliq20


i still think C should start in front of the utes. the post on the starting position does have a good point about that. it helps tremendously to not have to fight the utes.

it would seem that some C riders should beat the stock riders in the overall with all the mods. wouldn't you think?

I agree that the utes need to be in rotation because I get tire of pushing the POS's out the way during a race...:mad: Not saying all ute riders are slow but only a handfull is fast outa the entire class's.

Some C riders are faster than the stock riders but the stock class has riders in it that are far more experienced than the C class. Harlen for example is an A class rider hands down and is faster than most C class riders on his Zuki..

Don't think the stock class is full of riders that can't afford fast quads and don't know how to ride. It's probably one of the toughest classes to race in and that's including the afternoon classes.

[WOOLIN]

If you aren't racing in stock class why does in matter what they run or don't run!:macho

[cliq20]

i'm sure that there are very good riders in that stock class and it seems VERY competitive. I guess we (or I'm) just speaking about a couple of my buddies and the rest of the racers in stock class that are in it to race competitively without spending $KKK on their quad to be competitive. true, I do not race it but I think it's not turned out as intended. maybe that's what they had in mind but it does not seem so. it's great that the popularity is growing in that class but it's like there are some sandbaggers in there. a stock modified class may take care of that?? maybe?

i think it helps that honda (and hopefully other future manufacturers) pay $500 to win that class.

heck, i've even got a buddy that races Open A (and does well on basically the same mods that he would have had racing stock class - beadlocks, tires, new bars, etc.) who's going to buy a 450R and race stock class next year for that very reason. If you do well enough you could pay for your quad easily.








Originally posted by Rico
I agree that the utes need to be in rotation because I get tire of pushing the POS's out the way during a race...:mad: Not saying all ute riders are slow but only a handfull is fast outa the entire class's.

Some C riders are faster than the stock riders but the stock class has riders in it that are far more experienced than the C class. Harlen for example is an A class rider hands down and is faster than most C class riders on his Zuki..

Don't think the stock class is full of riders that can't afford fast quads and don't know how to ride. It's probably one of the toughest classes to race in and that's including the afternoon classes.

Originally posted by WOOLIN
If you aren't racing in stock class why does in matter what they run or don't run!:macho

Who the hell asked you woolin......:eek:
:D

Actually I don't care but it's just a good subject to discuss.

I guess the label STOCK CLASS is basically mislabeled because they are not STOCK.

RP has a very tough road ahead of them in deciding what is truly stock and what is not. Glad I"m not in their shoes...:eek2:

[Shawn H]

I agree with the line rotation

I remember Steele creek and RICO you were there so you know what I'm talking that first bottle neck had at least 15 C 16-24 class when the the 1st 8 of us got to them and then soon the whole 25-32 class was there.

Now had we been in a different row with no lappers you would see a lot of fast guys at the podium there is no way possible for a fast C rider to get all the way to the front.

Look at Brandon Sommers
(gt thunder)that kid is FAST and he was like 17th overall at a race. I guarantee he would make podium if he started even 2-3 rows closer to the front.

[Dan229]

Are you talking about Stock Utility, Modified Utility, Unlimited Utility or all of them?

[cliq20]

Originally posted by Dan229
Are you talking about Stock Utility, Modified Utility, Unlimited Utility or all of them?


this is a whole other issue that could get ugly too. it depends on how many utes need to get passed by C riders. if more C riders need to pass utes than utes need to pass C riders then it should be switched.

I mean if Penland and Kilby are the only ones fast enough to pass that many C riders (for example) then it should be switched.

this would be a hard decision for RP also.

It should probably be discussed in another thread too...

[Dan229]

Cliq,


I will start another thread to discuss this. Could be interesting.

[lt250r91]

Originally posted by jlhughes750
IMO....... stock is stock.not stock A or B or stock and stock mod............... Stock class is stock class!!!!!!!!! If u want to run anything else on the quad then run open A,B,or C.


just my .02

if theyre gonna split it then make it stock 0-400 and stock 400- open..............its the only way.

I agree with this statement. I feel if you were to divide the stock class up this way it would elimated the need for aftermarket shocks to equal the field, because the 400cc and smaller machines don't come with rebuildalbe or adjustable shocks.

As far as the tirebalz go. I race Rausch creek without the tire balz and with a small hole in one of my front tires and didn't have to change a single tire. Not having the added insurance doesn't change my riding style at all. I ride full speed and don't worry about flats. If they happen they happen. I agree that they should not be allowed in the class along with beadlocks. I currently run Carbon Fibers in the the class, but feel that it is an added advantage that shouldn't be allowed. The race rims with race rings should be the most expensive rim that should be legal for this class. Out side of that any added protection and safety equipement should be the only thing added to the quad.

Here is my current set-up on my Stock quad

Cannondale 02 Speed:
T-2 bars
Houser steering stem (bent the factory one when I broke my collar bone and the Houser was cheaper)
RPM bumper
RPM grab bar
RPM skid plate
RPM full chassis plate
Custom built nerf bars
Holeshot tires on Hiper Tech Rims
Tether Kill Switch

The only thing that I listed above that I feel should be questionable is the rims out side of that thoughs out to be the only things allowed to change in the stock class. At Rausch I trashed a lower a-arm and had to buy a new one. I bought a complete set of stock ones on ebay so that I could continue racing this class. If people would use ebay to buy replacement parts for their stock class quad then they could save a bundle and stay eligable for the class. People all the time are upgrading and sell factory parts. So use it to your advantage.

My dollar and 2 cents worth.

Mike

[cliq20]

Originally posted by lt250r91

I bought a complete set of stock ones on ebay so that I could continue racing this class. If people would use ebay to buy replacement parts for their stock class quad then they could save a bundle and stay eligable for the class. People all the time are upgrading and sell factory parts.

unfortunately if they required stock EVERYTHING those stock parts on ebay would increase signifigantly than the price they are going for now. you couldn't afford a $50 plastic skid, even on ebay...
same with the stems and a-arms.

i'm assuming this class keeps growing in popularity.

[Admin]

I have already heard a rumor from a good source that there will be two stock classes next year. Unless someone changes their mind, there will be a 400cc and under Stock Class and a 401cc + Stock Class.

They have been receiving alot of complaints from 400EX and Z400 owners that they can't compete with the YFZ, ATK, and TRX450 quads.

All this stock class rules whining from people who don't even race in the stock class is simply hilarous. The rules for every class are stated on the GNCC website at the beginning of the year, and if someone doesn't feel the class is what they want to run, they can run another class or race locals if they can't afford it.

This Bull grap about making it afforable for racer joe to race the Nationals is over the top. Give me a break!!!! There isn't anything cheap about racing the Nationals even on a bone stock quad. If a person wants to compete at the national level in any class and can afford to travel to over nine races minimal to win a title, I don't see how the few mods which are currently allowed will make or break anyone.

First of all, Manufacturers are producing better and better machines now almost every year. Some come with more race ready equipped than others, and to really be competitive it requires the purchase of a new machine every year which is far from inexpensive. Is it is fair that one quad has front shocks with ressies can line up beside a quad with out any ressies or adjustment? how about a full on race 450 engine compared to a 400cc trail quad. How about fuel injection which a rider can remap for a better power curve compared to a carb. Some quads are alot lighter than others, which also makes a big difference between the quads. Also some of the riders weight matches what the stock quads manufactuer shocks setting are designed for and some are too lite or too heavy for the quad to handle properly. Obviously, there are plenty difference between the machines, but in the end, it comes down to the rider. Adam howell raced a 700cc Vforce, which is super powerful, but extremely heavy. He obviously changed out the front shocks with Elka Non-Ressies to compete with the YFZ Quads which are ligther and have ressies. Did Adam win the Championship because he had changed his front shocks to Elkas, NO. He did it because he is an awesome rider, but tried to equal the playing field between the different race quads within the limits of the rules which took his disadvantage into account.

Racer Productions took all of these things into consideration when they produced the rules for the class expect for tireballs, which weren't mentioned for the class. Tireballs aren't mentioned in the rules as being allowed or disallowed. Tireballs themselve do not add any performance advantage to a quad. The added tire weight actually robs power to the ground. The only real benefit is that you don't have to worry about changing a tire during the race. I wouldn't say they are a performance enhancement, but instead a preventative enhancement. I actually haven't received a flat yet this year, and I didn't have one flat tire all last GNCC Series The reason is because I don't run my tires almost flat, so the side walls doesn't get pinched.

There isn't any modification that is currently allowed that is beyond anyone to afford that races Nationals. Some have a strong arqument against tireballs because they cost over 1,000. How much do you think it cost to have four spare tires sitting at your pits in case of a flat and atleast one person there to change your tire. A set of spare factory tires with factory wheels that even on ebay typically bring close to 400.00 for a complete set. Also, if you get a hole in the tire, it is most likely need to be replaced before it is wore out which cost more money in tires. Will one person be pentalized because he has a $500 Snap on impact gun instead of a $10.00 socket and wrench to change a tire??? How about the guy with three people in the pits to a single man to change the tire that can't have a pit crew???

Do you think the guy that can afford to get to the track on Friday and walk the course before saturday's race has an advantage over the guy that can't, of course he does.

For the record, I can see the view point of why some say that stock should be 100% stock, and I feel both sides have good points. People can whipper and whine about the stock rules until they turn blue in the face, and everyone has their opinion about what is the right way or the wrong way and some are more conservative than others. Regardless, Racer Production makes the rules and as long as everyone follows those rules, all should be fine.

***I feel like I just had Lenny D moment***

[Doibugu2]

Harlen, I think your post went over the alotted message length, I don't think its fair you can modify that for yourself, and not me, because I'm a paying patron:eek:


Good points though. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[cliq20]

holy post, harlman!

i knew this post would get some attention. i think hats off to those who race this class. and you race well on a z400. i just think there were a lot of people who didn't expect this class to be that competitive and with that many proven, good riders.

i wish i had the time to make it to all the nationals. for now i'll have to race my piddly little races.

you're right on the spare set though. a spare set of razr II's on rims would be at least 500-600 dollars. i just think people cringe at the $1000 price tag.

as far as getting a new quad every year, don't we intend on being satisfied with the "new" quad we get? everytime i get one, i'm sure it's the last one i'll ever need. it's always faster than the last one and has more power than i need, right? :D

this debate could go on forever...
there are good points from all sides. i think that the starting position post should have some suggestions too. it does make a difference there. not sure on a remedy for it either.

[Admin]

Originally posted by Doibugu2
Good points though. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Typically you will find the ones loosing are the ones that are b@tching. If you aren't winning, it must be that someone else has an advantage. It doesn't have anything to do with you riding ability :rolleyes:

Oh well, I am having a blast running my slow wore out 2003 Z400 that some feel is the super modded quad because I gusseted my frame and powdercoated a different color and added some flashy fullbore plastic to make it stand out and support my sponsors. Well it is obviously working, but once you get past the look. It is pretty much a stock quad. I still have the stock airfilter even with the lid and no holes just like BUCK442. His stock YFZ is still alot faster than mine, but oh well, I really don't care.

[ranger400ex]

no matter wether you disagree or not....you know this to be true.

any race...is 99% rider ability, .05%Bike/Quad, .05% a little help from the man upstairs.

The rules are stated up front, no matter how or when we don't like them...it is like the rest of life...you have a choice to participate....or watch.

You skinny people have an advantage, how about a 4stk A-200-500lbs....
:eek2:

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by ranger400ex
You skinny people have an advantage, how about a 4stk A-200-500lbs....
:eek2:

How about people that require corrective lenses. We need separate classes for people that require glasses, and people that don't.

People that have had a healthy breakfast have an advantage over people that were too poor or too busy to eat a proper meal the night before or morning of a race! We need a separate class for that!

Is it getting absurd enough?



Let's face it, you can't expect a stock Warrior to compete against a YFZ. Forget the motor, the suspension alone is like night and day. The flexability in the rules allows for a more level playing field.

As for the tireballs, lets look at tires alone. Sometimes tracks are muddy, or dry, or rocky, or sandy, or... You can't lock somebody into the stock tires. Would that mean they cannot adjust the air pressure in their tires? You need to allow people to change tires to accomadate different terrain. And if they can change tires, why can't they also add tireballs?

[lshonda310]

$1000 may be a little pricey for tireballs, but do they wear out? or will they last a long time like a good set of beadlocks?

[Johnny_G]

The current "STOCK" class is nothing of the sort!!!!

I DO NOT RUN STOCK CLASS, but do not feel that my input on the subject is in any way whining. i am just offering my opinion in an open forum that discusses the reality, or more realistically the lack of reality of this "STOCK" class.

The way it is curently there is nothing stock about over 50% of the bikes that line up in that row. I am not pointing out anyone, but in my very humble opinoin if the class is called 4-stk stock than the machine you line up on has to be a 4cycle engine, and in all stock trim!!!!!!!!

Example#1 the vet class(+30).......can you race that class if you are 28 years old, but the last 2 years were so hard on you that it seemed like 4 years?...............NO!!!!!

Example#2 265 A.........can you race that class with a 300 powervalve that is a lil worn out, so it really is only making as much HP as a strong running 250?..................NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

So then how can it be justified that modified ATV's are racing a stock class?.......................I dont know!!!!

Harlen,Wingnut,and anyone else running tire balls, or aftermarket parts in the stock class:
I think it is important to mention that I do not think anyone thinks that you are doing anything wrong.......you are simply doing everything within the rules to try to gain an advantage.

I am simply stating that the Name stock class is just plain silly if you are running a modified machine in it!!!!!!! which at least 60% of the people are!!!!!


Ok thats all for now!!!

[Doibugu2]

I don't understand why RP doesn't force people to race in certain classes. It seems like that is more of the issue. Because the individual can pick what class he wants to run, depending on the day, that doesn't seem fair.

Ben, I'm not trying to pick on you, but
When I was down in Sparta, Ranger ran 4stk C 25-32 with me. Then in Rausch I read where he was running A. I remember sitting on the line, and Ben saying he though he would switch back to A because he would have to deal with the yahoo's in the C class.

Me personally I could careless what anyone runs, because I'm there just to have fun. Heck the 2 races I have done, I think I have only completed a combined 3/4 of 1 lap.:(

I think they should force you to run in a certain class, if you placed withen the top 10 or something.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by EXriders Admin


***I feel like I just had Lenny D moment***


nope, you failed to bash exriders, its sponsors and 3/4 of its members. you also failed to repeat your message 400 million times so you can log off thinking maybe 1, just 1, 13 year old will be brain washed by your windbag rhetoric:o

just admit you are a cheat and we can close this thread:devil: or since you are openly stating your opinion maybe i should just boot you:devil:

sorry folks, thats for 2 numbnuts that think we dont care about them:cool:

[Admin]

Originally posted by Pappy
nope, you failed to bash exriders, its sponsors and 3/4 of its members. you also failed to repeat your message 400 million times so you can log off thinking maybe 1, just 1, 13 year old will be brain washed by your windbag rhetoric:o

just admit you are a cheat and we can close this thread:devil: or since you are openly stating your opinion maybe i should just boot you:devil:

sorry folks, thats for 2 numbnuts that think we dont care about them:cool:

lol!!

[spincr4hire]

Originally posted by ranger400ex
You skinny people have an advantage, how about a 4stk A-200-500lbs....
:eek2:


I think we need a 4 stroke beer drinkers (dam I shouldn't have drank the night before a race) class...:macho

:eek2: :eek2: :eek2:

[MA-KAN-IK]

Originally posted by Wingnut
I'm gald y'all don't make the rules. I'd go broke racing in a true stock class. Rico, you're right, in a way, the stock class is a lot like an open class. We can do just about anything as long as we don't improve the performance.


WTF???????

THE STOCK CLASS IS ALOT LIKE AN OPEN CLASS???????

As you can see by my number of posts i dont usually participate in a pi$$ing match, BUT , this subject has inspired me too!

I think Wingnut should have bought a better helmet than wasting a grand on tire balls, because it sure sounds like he hit his head really dammmnnn hard!

I have raced a few races this year (In the stock class) I couldnt race them all because i can not ----AFFORD----- to! Therefore i can not AFFORD shelling out a grand for flat proof tires, or a larger capacity tank that some people were pi$$ing about not being aloud to run earlier this year. NEITHER can i afford a cam, piston, or porting work!!!! (but some people in the stock class have done these "stock" mods!!)............we know who you are.........

BTW, ----Wingnut, that was a good race at rausch creek, one day i would like to be on the podium.
BUT i was wondering......if our class was like kart racing and the top 3 winners had the head pulled, would you still be smiling?

I chose to run the stock class because thats all i can afford,and i wanted to race everyone else on a STOCK QUAD!

As always He who has the most money wins!!!
Come on guys, why would any one spend a couple of grand on a stock bike in a stock class if it did not give you any advantage?? If it does not give you any advantage then we got some real dumbassses wasting money in the stock class!

SOME PEOPLE THINK AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A STOCK PIPE THEN YOU MUST HAVE A STOCK BIKE......STUPIDITY......
FIND AN OPEN CLASS!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by MA-KAN-IK
WTF???????

THE STOCK CLASS IS ALOT LIKE AN OPEN CLASS???????

As you can see by my number of posts i dont usually participate in a pi$$ing match, BUT , this subject has inspired me too!

I think Wingnut should have bought a better helmet than wasting a grand on tire balls, because it sure sounds like he hit his head really dammmnnn hard!

I have raced a few races this year (In the stock class) I couldnt race them all because i can not ----AFFORD----- to! Therefore i can not AFFORD shelling out a grand for flat proof tires, or a larger capacity tank that some people were pi$$ing about not being aloud to run earlier this year. NEITHER can i afford a cam, piston, or porting work!!!! (but some people in the stock class have done these "stock" mods!!)............we know who you are.........

BTW, ----Wingnut, that was a good race at rausch creek, one day i would like to be on the podium.
BUT i was wondering......if our class was like kart racing and the top 3 winners had the head pulled, would you still be smiling?

I chose to run the stock class because thats all i can afford,and i wanted to race everyone else on a STOCK QUAD!

As always He who has the most money wins!!!
Come on guys, why would any one spend a couple of grand on a stock bike in a stock class if it did not give you any advantage?? If it does not give you any advantage then we got some real dumbassses wasting money in the stock class!

SOME PEOPLE THINK AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A STOCK PIPE THEN YOU MUST HAVE A STOCK BIKE......STUPIDITY......
FIND AN OPEN CLASS!!!!!!!!!


http://ricoracing.netfirms.com/Smilies/wow3.gif http://ricoracing.netfirms.com/Smilies/smileeek.gif http://ricoracing.netfirms.com/Smilies/scared.gif

[Pappy]

maybe renaming the stock class to the "soap opera class" will be more appropriate:devil:

[gncc571]

Originally posted by MA-KAN-IK
WTF???????

THE STOCK CLASS IS ALOT LIKE AN OPEN CLASS???????

As you can see by my number of posts i dont usually participate in a pi$$ing match, BUT , this subject has inspired me too!

I think Wingnut should have bought a better helmet than wasting a grand on tire balls, because it sure sounds like he hit his head really dammmnnn hard!

I have raced a few races this year (In the stock class) I couldnt race them all because i can not ----AFFORD----- to! Therefore i can not AFFORD shelling out a grand for flat proof tires, or a larger capacity tank that some people were pi$$ing about not being aloud to run earlier this year. NEITHER can i afford a cam, piston, or porting work!!!! (but some people in the stock class have done these "stock" mods!!)............we know who you are.........

BTW, ----Wingnut, that was a good race at rausch creek, one day i would like to be on the podium.
BUT i was wondering......if our class was like kart racing and the top 3 winners had the head pulled, would you still be smiling?

I chose to run the stock class because thats all i can afford,and i wanted to race everyone else on a STOCK QUAD!

As always He who has the most money wins!!!
Come on guys, why would any one spend a couple of grand on a stock bike in a stock class if it did not give you any advantage?? If it does not give you any advantage then we got some real dumbassses wasting money in the stock class!

SOME PEOPLE THINK AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A STOCK PIPE THEN YOU MUST HAVE A STOCK BIKE......STUPIDITY......
FIND AN OPEN CLASS!!!!!!!!!

MA-KAN-IK
Why don't you tell us how you really feel!
I couldn't agree with more,I think stock should mean stock.

[Wingnut]

My engine has absolutely nothing done to it. The only time it has ever been apart was to check the valves. And, no, I didn't change the valve timing while I was in there. The head has never been removed. If they had wanted to tear the engine down, I would have had an even bigger smile.

And, I don't remember ever hitting my head.

[bradley300]

Originally posted by EXriders Admin

Is it is fair that one quad has front shocks with ressies can line up beside a quad with out any ressies or adjustment? how about a full on race 450 engine compared to a 400cc trail quad. How about fuel injection which a rider can remap for a better power curve compared to a carb. Some quads are alot lighter than others, which also makes a big difference between the quads. Also some of the riders weight matches what the stock quads manufactuer shocks setting are designed for and some are too lite or too heavy for the quad to handle properly.

honestly, i think you/they should have taken that into consideration when the decided on thier ride.

should i be allowed to race my 300ex in the stock class, so what if its got lots of motor and suspension work, i'm just trying to level the playing field

but i dont care, just my 2 cents, (wich changes alot)
if i wanna race the stock class, i'll buy an ATK or something simarly competitive

[Chef]

Originally posted by BUCK442
I think the question should be:

DO TIREBALZ IMPROVE SUSPENSION PERFORMANCE???

According to Yokley and others YES!

Just does not make any damn since. You cant change a $12 air filter but you can add 1000 tirebalz. Heck I might as well go back to the 4stroke A class. :confused:

How does adding unsprung weight improve the suspension performance? :huh

[lt250r91]

How about we have the class name changed to Stock Appearing or something to that effect?

I talked to Jason at Racer Production at the Lorreta Lynn's race this year and his comment on the class was the title verus the level of talent in the class. He said when local racers/first time see the 'Stock' class option they think of it as a beginners class and he has told many of them that it is more for an A/B level racer than a novice and reccomends them to race the 1st year or novice class instead. Because of this I feel they either need to change the name of the class or divide it up by rider level.

As for the tireballs and other questionable bolt ons that are being used in the class now, I'd have to say the rules allow them to add these things so more power to them.

Only way to solve this issue is to create a list of what is allow and a one that states what isn't allow in the class.

Another point that Jason brought up to me is as of now Racer Production is letting the racers in the class be the police on the class rules. Riders must protest another rider in the class at the starting line to a GNCC offical who then will rule if the quad is eligable for the class or not. Like the case at Sparta where the rider was trying to race a TRX450r with the HRD kit. A fellow stock class racer bought it to Rita's attention and the rider was given the option in which class he would switch to.

Originally posted by Chef
How does adding unsprung weight improve the suspension performance? :huh

Even the king of GNCC Bill Ballance stated tire balls are like having extra shocks.

And the weight of a tire full of tireballs might go up a half a pound at most. THey weigh nothing.


And boy has this thread gotten fun to read....:eek2: Were tireballs even on the market to be sold before this years GNCC race rules were posted?? IF they were,, WOULD RP say tireballs are not allowed??

What about these new FOX float shocks that have been released?? They have no ressies but are said to handle as good as a full on set of AXIS, PEP or Elka Triple rates with Ressies. If you were to install them you most definitly have the upperhand and could do it legally since they are not mentioned in the rules for the stock class.. I think i'm gonna put my chit pot stirren spoon down till next week... LOL

I hope know one thinks I tried to take anything away from their racing abilities. I know several stock class racers that are fast no matter what they are on so don't be beatin me up at the next race...:D

[Pappy]

i think the difference between the new generation of big bores and the old school thumpers are whats causing the biggest issue. as long as everyone is within the rules....noone can really b!tch.


and as far as running a stock quad in the gncc and getting off cheap? yer nutz:p i know several racers that are doing extremely well and are spending more $$ on replacing stock parts then they ever did running a different class with aftermarket parts.

[Admin]

Originally posted by Rico
I hope know one thinks I tried to take anything away from their racing abilities. I know several stock class racers that are fast no matter what they are on so don't be beatin me up at the next race...:D

No Worries from me, and I will introduce you to my mother at the Virginia Race. She will be attending her very first GNCC just to meet the infamous Rico.

Originally posted by EXriders Admin
No Worries from me, and I will introduce you to my mother at the Virginia Race. She will be attending her very first GNCC just to meet the infamous Rico.

Is she bringin her gun.....:(

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Rico
Is she bringin her gun.....:(

it's like her american express:o she never leaves home without it:D

[SSRedRider]

Wow. I am glad I run the old man class where everything is legal. I don't have anything to ****** about, wait thats not right. Maybe I ought to start a thread because I can't ******. Remember the old saying, that some people would ****** if they was hung with a new rope. Keep this up I am having fun reading this.

[coorsinmyc-bak]

Originally posted by snowgasm
I agree with the line rotation

I remember Steele creek and RICO you were there so you know what I'm talking that first bottle neck had at least 15 C 16-24 class when the the 1st 8 of us got to them and then soon the whole 25-32 class was there.

Now had we been in a different row with no lappers you would see a lot of fast guys at the podium there is no way possible for a fast C rider to get all the way to the front.

Look at Brandon Sommers
(gt thunder)that kid is FAST and he was like 17th overall at a race. I guarantee he would make podium if he started even 2-3 rows closer to the front.

i know exactly what you are saying,i was the second one to the bottle neck.25-32 class

[lukester720]

I would think that being able to fly through jagged rocks and all that would be a huge advantage knowing your tires wern't going to go flat, let alone if there "like a second suspension". I haven't ridden the tireballs yet but would like to give them a try to see how they feel. I do believe in people being able to have aftermarket tires in the stock class though. its nice to be able to switch to a tire that better fits track conditions and terrain, and they are a little more puncture resistant than stock. Even though it sucks to get one, I think getting flats is part of the race. If 20 people in a class have to worry about getting one and 2 or 3 guys don't, those 2 or 3 guys have an advantage. People in every type of racing have to worry about getting flats, what makes this any different. I think Rico would be doing way better this year if it wasn't for flat tires, and I think he and others would agree.

It doesn't say anything about them in the rulebook so I guess people could take advantage of that. It just seems like a 1000 dollar set of tireballs is pretty expensive for people running the stock class that run it because thats all they can afford, well that and the other advantages that have been listed already.

I also think that they should have divided the stock class, class A guys racing class C guys isn't all that fair either.

P.S. I'm not saying that anyone here is right or wrong, i'm just giving my opinion.

[cliq20]

Originally posted by SSRedRider
Maybe I ought to start a thread because I can't ******. Remember the old saying, that some people would ****** if they was hung with a new rope. Keep this up I am having fun reading this.

you got that right, Ed.


this thread i'm sure was not started to rip on anyone's ability just what should or shouldn't be used in a "stock" class.

it'll be interesting to see what happens next year. the popularity is getting crazy for the GNCC's and that's great but with that i'm sure changes are soon to follow.

[Admin]

I highly doubt any dramatic changes in the Stock Class rules for next year. I went through some old magazines to see if I could find out what the stock class was like in the past because it seems like everyone is pointing the finger at the stock class riders this year like most of the leaders are breaking the rules and making extreme modifications that never have been done in the past and we are all ruining the class.

Well just to inform everyone that has obvoiusly all the complainters never cared to look at a machines in the past because nothing is really different today(2004) in the stock class than back in 1999.

Yes, back in 1999 the class was split into two classes. There was a 0-350cc stock Class and a 400+ Stock Class because the "New" 400EX had too much of an advantage over the 350 Warriors and 300EX quads.

I also found a picture of Ron Martin on his 300EX racing in the 0-350 Stock Class, and you will never believe the horrible modifications that he had on his machine way back in 1999. I was totally shocked that he had Works Front Shocks without Ressies, Kickup Footpegs, Gripper Seat, Aftermarket Handlebars, Beadlocks, and etc... on a "Stock Machine." How did the other riders ever compete with him and his expensive modifaction. Amazingly, he never even won a race that year, but that is because the others must have had Big Bore Engines that no one knew about, or maybe, just maybe, he wasn't as fast as them??? No that could never be the reason, and he was just the grandfather of ruining the Stock Class.

I thought all those fancy aftermarket parts just appeared in the Stock Class this year by "Rich Guys" that are ruining the class this year by "Super Modifying" there machines.:rolleyes:

The only real reason the class is getting so much attention from complainers is the class is extremely competitive, and it is far from a C Class, and anybody in the top 10 could easily be a A Class Rider.

[465Stroker]

Maybe RP could just do away with the stock class so that all the debating on what modifications you can run would be out the door....:confused:

Originally posted by 465Stroker
Maybe RP could just do away with the stock class so that all the debating on what modifications you can run would be out the door....:confused:

I was just talking with Jeff at the shop about doing away with the stock class since the grey area is getting pretty large with all the new quads coming out..

I'll never run in the stock class and truly don't care what they have on their quads. The reason I started the thread was because I felt it would be a good discussion. My assumption was 100% accurate....:devil:

[lt250r91]

Originally posted by EXriders Admin

Well just to inform everyone that has obvoiusly all the complainters never cared to look at a machines in the past because nothing is really different today(2004) in the stock class than back in 1999.

Yes, back in 1999 the class was split into two classes. There was a 0-350cc stock Class and a 400+ Stock Class because the "New" 400EX had too much of an advantage over the 350 Warriors and 300EX quads.


Harlen

This part of your research is dead on (same with the rest, but I wanted to key on this).

Back in 99 the 400ex was introduced and was above everything else out there, so RP changed the class structure because of it. I feel the only change that needs to be made to the stock 4-stroke class for 2004 is a 0-400 class and a 400+ class. Do to the new 450's that are out and how much more performance they produce.
I argee that the rider is what makes a difference in this class and not the set-up. If everyone was to have the same set-ups on the same quad in this class the result maybe slightly different, but not any major difference. The guys that are currently in the top 10 or so would still be leading the class. I also feel that a rider level split for the class might also be a good thing (a production stock b/c class and a pro-am stock class). The pro-am stock class would be an afternoon class and the b/c one would be in the morning). No matter how they change it or leave it as it is now there will be people complaining about the rules and how some have an advantage. This is like any class. Others class call racers sandbaggers or cherry picking a class. Those people just like to complain. All I'm asking is that a concrete set of rules are written and provided for the racers for this class so there is no gray area and some way to police it so bending or breaking the rules is kept to a minium.

[Admin]

Originally posted by 465Stroker
Maybe RP could just do away with the stock class so that all the debating on what modifications you can run would be out the door....:confused:

See - Rick is the Man with the Answer:devil: But, how much fun would that be with the Women on the Podium all the time. The Morning Stock Class keeps it exciting.

[BUCK442]

Even better question is Why does'nt the Stock class start on the first row. Look at the overalls at leat 75% to 85% are stockers in the top 10. I know a few Super Sr's are fast but come on!:rolleyes:

[jlhughes750]

WOW!!!!!!! Rico what have u done???????

I'm almost hesitant to post anything for fear of getting hit with a blast from the flame thrower...

I guess i'm one of those guys that harlum mentioned that don't even run the class but likes to add his opinion. I ran the class 2 times last year on an EX and 1 time this year on the YFZ.

If Rico posted the question, should Balls be allowed in the stk class? whats your opinion? I would respond NO they should make it more exciting and not allow them.. thats what I would say..

Regardless of Ricos wishes I do think that a few of the stock class front runners took offense to this post thinking that there hard work is being scrutinized (sp). I'm sure that was not Chico's intention. Harlen and Wingnut, you guys are fast and skilled riders, the fact is you do have a definite advantage over those that do not have TBalls!! period, bottom line!!!! That is not wrong by any means... Wingnut has and advantage over Harlen because he's ridin the YFZ(the best bike around!:D ) because of HP... thats Harlens choice to run the Z. Thats what makes the class so fun!!! They set a guidline to work within and WE the racers build what we think will be the best within those guidlines!! There not cheating, they're just using a product that has not been restricted YET in that class. Good for them that they can afford something that will help them finish better. Rules are rules and winners playing within the rules are still winners. Until they change the rules that will be the way it stays.

[cliq20]

this is a great post.

hope no one gets (or is getting) offended. i don't think that was anyone's intention.

maybe just change it so that it's more interesting next year. stock A/B riders in a class and stock C riders in another. top 20 in stock class this year move up to A/B class. new stock riders and bottom ride C class. same rules...

i dunno.

i don't race the class and i'm one of "those guys", i just think this is one interesting conversation and i'm adding my opinion.

harlen proves "it's the rider, not the quad" since he's riding the z400 successfully.

could this get like the "maryland" post in the where to ride section? (probably not - that post is crazy - i dare not go in there)

[dwf126]

I don't run the stock class either, but I have read through all the posts on here and like everyone else, I will state my opinion.

If there are no rules for tireballs in the class, regardless of what it is called, they should be allowed.

I have tireballs, and I ride the exact same way I did before I had them. I never slowed down before due to the fear of a flat tire and I don't slow down now. I just didn't have to buy a 2nd set of tires and rims to lug around to every race.

I raced the entire GNCC series in 2001 and didn't get any flats. I ended up 2nd for the year in the 4str C and I am positive Tireballs wouldn't have helped me get first.

I think before it is said and done, that tire balls will have saved me more money than they cost because I don't have to replace tires as often. I replaced many a tire because it had a big gash in the sidewall, not quite a hole yet, but still enough to make me leary.

In 2001 I know I had to replace 3 after Sparta and I put a new set on at the break.

I figure that cost around $60/tire x 7 = $420

I hope to get through the entire GNCC series on 1 set of tires this year.

As long at the Tireballs last a while, I figure they are good investment.

It seems to me the issue with Tireballs is the price tag. Would this be an argument if Tireballs cost $10 to add to your quad? I don't think it would be.

The stock class is just plain fast and very competitive.

I agree the name "stock" can be deceiving, but anyone running the GNCC series knows that it isn't a class for beginners.

I guess the bottom line is the rules are the rules, that is why we have them and there is no rule barring Tireballs from the stock class.

As far as helping with the suspension, I don't see any difference.

Just my .02 cents.

[Bart]

I wonder why no one considered splitting the stock class this year?

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86758

[cliq20]

Originally posted by dwf126


I think before it is said and done, that tire balls will have saved me more money than they cost because I don't have to replace tires as often. I replaced many a tire because it had a big gash in the sidewall, not quite a hole yet, but still enough to make me leary.

In 2001 I know I had to replace 3 after Sparta and I put a new set on at the break.

I figure that cost around $60/tire x 7 = $420

I hope to get through the entire GNCC series on 1 set of tires this year.

As long at the Tireballs last a while, I figure they are good investment.

It seems to me the issue with Tireballs is the price tag. Would this be an argument if Tireballs cost $10 to add to your quad? I don't think it would be.



this is all true, hard to look at $1000 that way but if you go through that many tires it's very economical.

hard to tell about the suspension advantages having never ridden on them.

[BUCK442]

Heck; I am outta the top 5 now since I missed a few round. So why does'nt some one let me try a set of them controversial ballz and I will give you all the honest answer about performance period.........:D

[Admin]

Originally posted by BUCK442
Heck; I am outta the top 5 now since I missed a few round. So why does'nt some one let me try a set of them controversial ballz and I will give you all the honest answer about performance period.........:D

Hmmm..... I might consider doing that for you.:confused:

[BUCK442]

Originally posted by EXriders Admin
Hmmm..... I might consider doing that for you.:confused:

That would be an end all to the question of performance. 100% honest and accurate account of testing.

BTW: I never did get those stickers you were talking about at Lorettas. Steph gave me a bunch for Troy but no EXriders sticks.

Thanks Harlen.:)

[jcsact]

After you use a set of tire up, can you reuse the tire balls and would it still cost a $1000 to have them put in? Or can you remount them on a set yourself?

Originally posted by EXriders Admin
Hmmm..... I might consider doing that for you.:confused:


:mad: :grr: :cuss:

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by jcsact
After you use a set of tire up, can you reuse the tire balls and would it still cost a $1000 to have them put in? Or can you remount them on a set yourself? Yes, you reuse them. I'm still on the same set that I ran last summer.

[BUCK442]

Easy now Rico, we all have flats.

I got a Jamaican hair dew sticking outta my new razor 2 front sidewall. It does however increase traction....:p

[cliq20]

can you replace each ball? surely they bust every now and then.
probably not easy to mount yourself too.

maybe we should start a tire balls FAQ section.


:confused:

:D

how do i get my razr's to look jamaican?

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by cliq20
can you replace each ball? surely they bust every now and then.
probably not easy to mount yourself too.

maybe we should start a tire balls FAQ section.


:confused:

:D

how do i get my razr's to look jamaican? The only way that they will bust is if you get an object like a nail to go through your tire. They have a 1 year warantee and after that you can buy single replacement balls.

[BUCK442]

Originally posted by cliq20
can you replace each ball? surely they bust every now and then.
probably not easy to mount yourself too.

maybe we should start a tire balls FAQ section.


:confused:

:D

how do i get my razr's to look jamaican?

1. Slash sidewall going 65 mph on log trying to pass Super Sr.
2. Insert 4 black radial tire plugs in gash.
3. Inflate with bicycle co2 air cartrage ( thanks Zingnut)
4. Do not cut excess plug.

You gotta Jamaican tire.

Or you check with Rico and put something else in the tire!!!:macho

What are these tires balls everyone is speaking of???????:confused:

[Tarrat 103]

Originally posted by EXriders Admin
See - Rick is the Man with the Answer:devil: But, how much fun would that be with the Women on the Podium all the time. The Morning Stock Class keeps it exciting.

I think the top "three" in each of the morning classes would give the ladies a run for their money,...just like the stock glass does now starting from the second row........Not taking anything away from "anyone"....just making a point:cool:

Originally posted by Tarrat 103
I think the top "three" in each of the morning classes would give the ladies a run for their money,...just like the stock glass does now starting from the second row........Not taking anything away from "anyone"....just making a point:cool:

Put Brandon Summers on the front row and there's a REAL good chance he'd be sprayin champagne at the end of the race..:cool:

[Scott Kawi700]

Originally posted by Rico
Put Brandon Summers on the front row and there's a REAL good chance he'd be sprayin champagne at the end of the race..:cool:

I heard that!!!!:macho

[TRX500]

I think there are a few ute riders that would also be spraying it.

[yamblaster200]

I was just reading over this thread for the first time and have a couple of cents i'd like to add. I agree that the stock class should be just that...stock. However, instead of griping about what mods should be allowed, i'd rather complain about how fast the riders are that race this class. I feel that considering this class is intended to keep costs down, it should be intended for the slower racers that may only be able to afford to make 1 or 2 gncc's a year. The guys racing in this class that are fast enough to be able to race the a class and such really don't need to race the stock class cuz they can get sponcers to help them with the cost of racing. Guys like me, who are c class racers at best, are the ones who can't afford to mod our quads, and are the ones who would like to race in a stock class, but not against guys like harlen and them who are way out of my league. I would love nothing more than to show up to a race and see everyone in my class on bone stock 400ex's like mine, but not if the people racing them moved to that class from the a class. I would like to see them move people through the stock class like that do the b and c classes, or do an a and b stock class or something like that.

"How about people that require corrective lenses. We need separate classes for people that require glasses, and people that don't."

That's funny cuz i didn't think anyone else ever noticed the disadvantage it is wearing glasses. To not have the option of taking off your goggles during a race is really a huge disadvantage believe it or not. lol

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by yamblaster200


That's funny cuz i didn't think anyone else ever noticed the disadvantage it is wearing glasses. To not have the option of taking off your goggles during a race is really a huge disadvantage believe it or not. lol You should not be taking off your goggle anyway. I wear contacts and never take my goggles off.

[bs784]

You should never have to change goggles. I started racing woods last fall and I have never stopped to change goggles or gloves at any race except one of the buccs races that I ran for three hours straight. The only time that your goggles or gloves should come off is if they mal-function and can not be ridden with at all. Then and only then you can take them off to be replaced before continuing on.

[rowlrag]

Do away with STOCK all together, call it SUPER STOCK:confused:

[cheetah]

Originally posted by yamblaster200
I was just reading over this thread for the first time and have a couple of cents i'd like to add. I agree that the stock class should be just that...stock. However, instead of griping about what mods should be allowed, i'd rather complain about how fast the riders are that race this class. I feel that considering this class is intended to keep costs down, it should be intended for the slower racers that may only be able to afford to make 1 or 2 gncc's a year. The guys racing in this class that are fast enough to be able to race the a class and such really don't need to race the stock class cuz they can get sponcers to help them with the cost of racing. Guys like me, who are c class racers at best, are the ones who can't afford to mod our quads, and are the ones who would like to race in a stock class, but not against guys like harlen and them who are way out of my league. I would love nothing more than to show up to a race and see everyone in my class on bone stock 400ex's like mine, but not if the people racing them moved to that class from the a class. I would like to see them move people through the stock class like that do the b and c classes, or do an a and b stock class or something like that.

"How about people that require corrective lenses. We need separate classes for people that require glasses, and people that don't."

That's funny cuz i didn't think anyone else ever noticed the disadvantage it is wearing glasses. To not have the option of taking off your goggles during a race is really a huge disadvantage believe it or not. lol

I have to disagree with that as well. We have slower classes for slower riders. It's called First Year Racer. And in my opinion the FYR row is more "stock" than the "stock" class. Stock riders are doing nothing wrong and if you was in that position you would do the very most you could within the parameters set by RP to do well in that class. I must agree as well that stock needs to go back to true stock. Not because of unfairness or even the average joe racer, but because it has strayed away from what the class was truly meant to be. I run C (16-24) and this is my first year. I'm finishing in the better half and have plaqued once. I could be doing so much better in First Year Racer and probably should have raced it first. However I chose to race C because since I am racing every race this season I wanted a class to be eligiable for points. I'm not complaining that I'm not winning and there are quite a few in my class with a lot more in their ride than mine, but this is the class I chose and have no complaints. If you are unhappy with you class, CHANGE CLASSES. It is as simple as that. If you are unhappy in some way with all of the classes, then maybe you aren't as in to racing as you think you are. I want to win or I would not be there. But as I'm getting beat right now I blame myself in the fact that I am not as experienced a rider and are not conditioned as well as some of the other guys. It's not my bike. I bet Sommers could borrow my bike and still mop the C class. I do expect RP to change the format on "stock" next year. It is kind of hard to do things mid season especially as new products hit the market mid season. If RP announced right now NO TIREBALLS then they would have a number of people angry that they just blew $1000 because RP didn't tell them in time. I hope to see stock back to true stock, but if you aren't happy with stock now move to another class.

[yamblaster200]

I don't race the stock class....nor the gncc's. I was just giving an opinion. I race the local district 6 races, and like you, i blame myself 110% for not winning. I'm on a completely stock 400ex, however, like you said, i know that quad is good enough to win with the right rider on it. The reason i wrote what i did is I'm curious, as are many other racers, how i could do in a class where all the quads were equal.

[allmixedup047]

if you started branching off more classes from a single class, then you would have, well, a lot of classes. one stock class and one stock class only. if you cant hang with the fast guys, you need to practice, and if you can only get to a couple of gncc'c a year, then your not really looking to get in the points lead, your just going to be in the scene of the gncc and race with some really good racers. thats my 2 cents. :)

[jja125]

[i]

"How about people that require corrective lenses. We need separate classes for people that require glasses, and people that don't."

That's funny cuz i didn't think anyone else ever noticed the disadvantage it is wearing glasses. To not have the option of taking off your goggles during a race is really a huge disadvantage believe it or not. lol [/B]




just do what i do and race blind :eek:

i've needed glasses for years but i just don't want to get them because of my work and riding & racing - it would be a huge pain in the *** if i had them, so i just never got them. maybe it just makes me go faster if i don't see all those trees going by :devil:

[Pappy]

they need a "b!tch" class....after reading all the moaning in here i'd say she'd be full:devil: