weight limit

[BiggerRed 400ex]

What is the highest weight limit a reletively stock 400EX can handle? I thought i read in the manual somewhere that it is around 220lbs?? Any info on this?.... im pondering the idea of a DS650.

[xr50layke]

some people here are like 260lbs and theyre fine on a 400ex. a ds650 is a beast and is made for big people, like 300 pounders.

[MrTrendy1]

My friend weighs like 300 or so, when he gets on my 400, it cries and screams get off! It makes the thing squat all the way down and it really kills the shock. I have told him he is not allowed on it anymore. He also wanted to jump stuff with it, no good! I want my quad to last me a while on stock shocks!!

[K_Fulk]

My cousin is about 6'6 370. He rode my 400 ok but it turned into a TT quad when he got on it.

If your over 300 you would probly want to look into some shocks for a 400ex if you get one. But a ds would probly be a better fit depending how big you are.

[RMX500]

if you're 300 you ought to look into a treadmill and the lighter choices menu.

[wantinga400ex]

Originally posted by RMX500
if you're 300 you ought to look into a treadmill and the lighter choices menu.

Some people really cant help how much they weigh...theres alot of reasons why

:rolleyes:

[RIDER11X]

Well I am 6'2" @ 265lb. and my 400 does great. I regularly jump approx. 30 foot doubles, ride at insane speed on rock infested Pennsylvania trails every weekend, race Harescrambles (with good results) and finally put the first set of axle bearings in my machine 2 weeks ago..........I do all of this on a stock rear shock, and Works Steelers w/ Rezzies on the front. I love my 400ex and it treats me well.
PS. I am still running the original clutch plates and springs also.:cool:

[MrTrendy1]

What's your top speed you've gotten Rider? My friend only topped out at 50mph using GPS on my 400. He weights around 300-320lbs. I don't let him ride mine anymore either, I think he hurt it once. I on the other hand, weight only 130lbs, so I know I can ride it to the max easily.

[Towlieee]

Originally posted by MrTrendy1
What's your top speed you've gotten Rider? My friend only topped out at 50mph using GPS on my 400. He weights around 300-320lbs. I don't let him ride mine anymore either, I think he hurt it once. I on the other hand, weight only 130lbs, so I know I can ride it to the max easily.

Thats really sad.. Your 400ex is a pos, unless you have it geared really low..

The weight of your rides shoulden't affect top speed.. acceleration of course..

Hell when I drove my buddys 300ex out to my moms like 15 miles, our friend followed us in the car. Me a 150 pound kid, with another 130+ pound kid on back. Said we were doing 55-60 topping out..

Hell I'v even topped out my buddys 300ex with my 225-250 friends on back with my driving.. Topping it out for me is when it looses all power and hits redline.. which is 55-60..

Now if your 400ex can't get over 50 with 300pounds thats sad. Somthing is seriously wrong.. Figuring when I top out the 300ex in 5th gear, my friend is just topping his 400ex out in 4th, and kicks it into 5th and goes past me..

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by MrTrendy1
What's your top speed you've gotten Rider? My friend only topped out at 50mph using GPS on my 400. He weights around 300-320lbs. I don't let him ride mine anymore either, I think he hurt it once. I on the other hand, weight only 130lbs, so I know I can ride it to the max easily.

Well, ask Crazy Honda about me beating his new bone stock YFZ 3 out of 4 times in a drag race......:D As for top speed, I've never ran in a way to be checked for actual speed, but when our ride groups go wide open down the fireroads and such I'm right in the group with them, and that includes Mtn Dew Racing's 416ex when he weighs 160lb. At our last Harescramble I finished 1 second behind him, and all of our lap times were not more than a few seconds apart. Want proof? Go to topendproductions.com were all lap times are posted.;)

[RIDER11X]

BTW, in case you think i am as round as I am tall here is a pic of me from before the race. :cool:

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by Towlieee
Thats really sad.. Your 400ex is a pos, unless you have it geared really low..

The weight of your rides shoulden't affect top speed.. acceleration of course..

Hell when I drove my buddys 300ex out to my moms like 15 miles, our friend followed us in the car. Me a 150 pound kid, with another 130+ pound kid on back. Said we were doing 55-60 topping out..

Hell I'v even topped out my buddys 300ex with my 225-250 friends on back with my driving.. Topping it out for me is when it looses all power and hits redline.. which is 55-60..

Now if your 400ex can't get over 50 with 300pounds thats sad. Somthing is seriously wrong.. Figuring when I top out the 300ex in 5th gear, my friend is just topping his 400ex out in 4th, and kicks it into 5th and goes past me..

Well, if you stick someone that fat on it, yeah, you won't get top speed. When I got on it and topped it out, I got 71.3mph per GPS. So no, my 400 is not a POS bud, its actually quite fast. If you stick anyone fat on something like that, you are just going to slow it down. I bet if I got on a 300ex and were to top it, I bet I could get a faster top speed than you did. I also weight less than you. I'm not in anyway calling you a liar, I just know how weight ratios affect different things. You can take a car, run a full tank of gas and get a specific quarter time. Then take the same car, minus enough gas to get it down the track and back, stripped out, and you will get a better time. Imagine that.

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by RIDER11X
Well, ask Crazy Honda about me beating his new bone stock YFZ 3 out of 4 times in a drag race......:D As for top speed, I've never ran in a way to be checked for actual speed, but when our ride groups go wide open down the fireroads and such I'm right in the group with them, and that includes Mtn Dew Racing's 416ex when he weighs 160lb. At our last Harescramble I finished 1 second behind him, and all of our lap times were not more than a few seconds apart. Want proof? Go to topendproductions.com were all lap times are posted.;)

That's awesome about you beating a YZF, what mods do you have? I know if I were to do a 416/426 or even 440, I could probably slaughter people cause of my small size. By the way, you are only half the size of my friend haha. He is freaking huge. He's 6'2 and weights over 300lbs. I don't doubt your times at all either, a good driver is going to get good times but the same skilled driver being 50 lbs less will get better times. The quad has less weight to be pulling around the track, therefore more power to put down on the track. ;)

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by MrTrendy1
That's awesome about you beating a YZF, what mods do you have?

CT Slip on, airbox mods and jetting.............not bad huh? :cool:

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by MrTrendy1
I don't doubt your times at all either, a good driver is going to get good times but the same skilled driver being 50 lbs less will get better times. The quad has less weight to be pulling around the track, therefore more power to put down on the track. ;)

Guys I ride with say that my size is an unfair atvantage because I get traction where they can't. Size does help with throwing the machine around, especially in woods riding. Mike Penland is a big guy, did you ever see him race? There are alot of guys that will tell you how fast he is. Yea, I know he is on a prairie, but still....

[MrTrendy1]

So as far as mods go, we are basically the same? Just slipon and others right? My mods are in my sig.

When my friend and I ride woods, he rides a Grizzly 660 and it acts just like it loves him on it. He moves it where ever he wants it. But I do the same, I love the fact that the 400ex is light and I can push it and pull it when needed. I never have had problem with traction but other than when I try for holeshot, I have a tendancy to lift up too much.

[Towlieee]

Originally posted by MrTrendy1
Well, if you stick someone that fat on it, yeah, you won't get top speed. When I got on it and topped it out, I got 71.3mph per GPS. So no, my 400 is not a POS bud, its actually quite fast. If you stick anyone fat on something like that, you are just going to slow it down. I bet if I got on a 300ex and were to top it, I bet I could get a faster top speed than you did. I also weight less than you. I'm not in anyway calling you a liar, I just know how weight ratios affect different things. You can take a car, run a full tank of gas and get a specific quarter time. Then take the same car, minus enough gas to get it down the track and back, stripped out, and you will get a better time. Imagine that.

thats not how it works.. If I can reach top rpm the engine can produce with 300 pounds, and you weigh 130 pounds, its not like the engine will have a higher rev limit... So I dont see why you think it would be faster top end?

Sure the acceleration would be alot better, but if the quad is capable of top rpm with 300 pounds, then it'l hit just as high top speed as with no rider...

Then again if your not rapping out the RPM range then you could go faster with a lighter rider

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by Towlieee
thats not how it works.. If I can reach top rpm the engine can produce with 300 pounds, and you weigh 130 pounds, its not like the engine will have a higher rev limit... So I dont see why you think it would be faster top end?

Sure the acceleration would be alot better, but if the quad is capable of top rpm with 300 pounds, then it'l hit just as high top speed as with no rider...

Then again if your not rapping out the RPM range then you could go faster with a lighter rider

I never said anything about RPMs. I said top speed. Irregardless if the quad tops its RPMs out or not, if you are trying to lug around more weight, the engine is getting more stress and having to run at higher RPMs while lacking SPEED. If you hook up a trailer to a truck and that trailer is lugging around 2 tons, the truck will never get the same top speed it could without the 2 tons. It works the same way on the quad. If you stick someone with half the weight on a quad, you are more likely going to get a higher top speed than if you stick someone with double that.

It's just physics at work. Larger mass requires more work, less mass requires less work. With less mass, you are using less work to pull the quad around, therefore you have more power to lay down on the ground.

Does this make sense? I'm just looking at it in a scientific way.

[khen]

Originally posted by MrTrendy1
I never said anything about RPMs. I said top speed. Irregardless if the quad tops its RPMs out or not, if you are trying to lug around more weight, the engine is getting more stress and having to run at higher RPMs while lacking SPEED. If you hook up a trailer to a truck and that trailer is lugging around 2 tons, the truck will never get the same top speed it could without the 2 tons. It works the same way on the quad. If you stick someone with half the weight on a quad, you are more likely going to get a higher top speed than if you stick someone with double that.

It's just physics at work. Larger mass requires more work, less mass requires less work. With less mass, you are using less work to pull the quad around, therefore you have more power to lay down on the ground.

Does this make sense? I'm just looking at it in a scientific way.
No offense, but that doesn't make sense.. If your motor is at full RPM in the top gear(or any gear) no matter how much you weigh the speed will be the same. The only thing that can change that is if your clutch is slipping or somthing else in the drive train is slipping. The other exception is if you have an automatic snowmobile or polaris type transmission. This type of clutch system holds the RPM's at max HP but varies the pulley ratio(speed vs. torque) according to the load.

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by khen
No offense, but that doesn't make sense.. If your motor is at full RPM in the top gear(or any gear) no matter how much you weigh the speed will be the same. The only thing that can change that is if your clutch is slipping or somthing else in the drive train is slipping. The other exception is if you have an automatic snowmobile or polaris type transmission. This type of clutch system holds the RPM's at max HP but varies the pulley ratio(speed vs. torque) according to the load.

So you are saying that regardless if it has twice the weight, requiring twice the work, the speed should be the same at the same RPMs? I just don't see that to be possible. The engine is going to have to work twice as hard to make up for that difference.

I don't see it being possible for a 25hp engine at 8k-9k RPMs making the same MPH for two different weights. For example, me being 130lbs and my friend being 300lbs. He is a little more than twice my size and he could not get my 400 up to the same speed I could and had it topped out reving the RPMs all the way. Explain that to me. He has been riding dirt bikes and quads all his life, so don't tell me he didn't know how to drive it.

[k2-dawg]

It may be a time issue. The quad may do the same top speed with 130 lb vs 300 lb person, but the time to get it up to top speed will be greater with the 300 lb rider.

[thame2010]

..I Agree with you MrTrendy1..

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by k2-dawg
It may be a time issue. The quad may do the same top speed with 130 lb vs 300 lb person, but the time to get it up to top speed will be greater with the 300 lb rider.

Maybe so, I bet it would take 30 minutes to get it going that speed in addition to going down a steep slope.

I'm not trying to be a jackass here, I just think the laws of physics are a pretty exact science.

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by thame2010
..I Agree with you MrTrendy1..

Thanks, someone actually understood me.

[k2-dawg]

Originally posted by MrTrendy1
Maybe so, I bet it would take 30 minutes to get it going that speed in addition to going down a steep slope.


Your BIG buddy would have more momentum than you then.

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by k2-dawg
Your BIG buddy would have more momentum than you then.

You got that right! My fat *** friend would hurt something if he hit it going fast enough. Haha..

Originally posted by RIDER11X
CT Slip on, airbox mods and jetting.............not bad huh? :cool:

was that on dirt or sand? cuz in the sand my bike was beating the 450's but they beat me a little more then i beat them...is his a stock 450? i never dragged 1 on dirt so i dunno how fast my bike is compaired to them...but on sand i do kno

[RedEx XCRider]

i am 6'3 and 283lbs and it doesn't bother my 400 any it swuats jes a little bit...but i also have redone and tougher srping rear shocks and work front....don't get a ds650 tho dude....if you do your jes asking for trouble O_O

[khen]

Originally posted by MrTrendy1
So you are saying that regardless if it has twice the weight, requiring twice the work, the speed should be the same at the same RPMs? I just don't see that to be possible. The engine is going to have to work twice as hard to make up for that difference.

I don't see it being possible for a 25hp engine at 8k-9k RPMs making the same MPH for two different weights. For example, me being 130lbs and my friend being 300lbs. He is a little more than twice my size and he could not get my 400 up to the same speed I could and had it topped out reving the RPMs all the way. Explain that to me. He has been riding dirt bikes and quads all his life, so don't tell me he didn't know how to drive it.

It's quite simple.. With a manual transmission you are all direct drive through gearing/sprockets. If the motor is turning at 9000 RPM then the gears and therefore the tires are turning at the proportionate speed regardless of the weight it is pulling.

Think of it this way. If you have a motor connected directly to a wheel (right off of the motor shaft) and the motor is turning 100 revolutions per minute(RPM) no matter how heavy the wheel is it is turning the same speed - 100 RPM. If your buddy is going slower than you in the same gear he IS NOT at the same motor RPM's that you are unless your clutch is slipping or your tires are flattening (therefore decreasing the diameter) or the wheels are spinning.

What your saying is equivalent to saying that your buddy and you are both going 50 mph but he is going slower because he is fat.

I am not saying that a motor doesn't have to work harder when pulling a heavier load. It does require more horsepower to pull a heavier load no doubt, but this will manifest itself in a lower rpm because of heat produced as well as other factors. If the load is to heavy you will not be able to even stay in the top gear and will have to downshift to a lower gear and trade in some speed for torque.

On a manual transmission motor RPM is directly proportionate to speed plain and simple.

[MrTrendy1]

I follow you khen. What you say makes sense but I still believe that what I said still holds true as well.

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
was that on dirt or sand? cuz in the sand my bike was beating the 450's but they beat me a little more then i beat them...is his a stock 450? i never dragged 1 on dirt so i dunno how fast my bike is compaired to them...but on sand i do kno

That was on a lightly graveled road in the winter with light snow on it. :eek: Makes you really pay attention to your run out area to stop......I slid about 40 feet after the finish, and still jumped over a snow bank I couldn't avoid!:eek2: But, we were both on the same road and switched sides each time. Caused him to drop $490 on a LRD full system the next day!!!:devil: That must have hurt him really bad for me to beat him....BTW, he weighs 200lb!:macho

[Towlieee]

Originally posted by MrTrendy1
I follow you khen. What you say makes sense but I still believe that what I said still holds true as well.

What you said holds true yes..

But what I said also holds true.. I simply said that my friends 300ex will make top RPM with 3 people on it..

At top rpm 8,750 it is at top speed.. If I let u drive it, its not like it would go to a higher rpm like 9.5k.. which would be the only way for a higher top speed..

Now if your quad CANNOT top out the rpm in your top gear, then yes its possible to go faster with less weight/air resistance..

Also you'l accelerate slower..

[wilkin250r]

khen nailed it on the head.

In a chain drive, the ground speed is directly proportional to engine speed. MrTrendy1 is also correct, up to a point. For a generic system, the physics are simple. A heavier load results in more work, which usually results in less speed. If this is ALL there was to the equation, he would be correct.

However, this system is not that simple. By placing a rev limiter on the engine, you are introducing controls and limits. That rev limiter will limit engine speed, and thus will limit ground speed. The limit then is the controlling factor.

Let's say, theoretically, that a 300EX is capable of 72 miles per hour with 1 person on it, and 60mph with 3 people on it, but the rev limit kicks in at 54mph. Both machines reach the same top speed of 54mph (although the 3-person will take longer to get there).

Again, this is assuming that the quad can hit the rev limit with 3-people on it. Same engine speed, same ground speed.

[MrTrendy1]

I knew I wasn't totally wrong in my thinking, khen got me thinking other things as well. Thats why I didn't argue with him that he was wrong but totally agreed with him but also wanted to prove that I was partially right. I can admit when I am wrong, I am not that prideful.

I was waiting on someone with the "Official Thinker" title to pipe up and get us all settled straight. As always, you can hit the nail right on the head with your insite!

[wilkin250r]

That's what I'm here for ;)

[khen]

Most motor vehicles typically have a peak horsepower that is lower than the max RPM (or rev limit). What will happen if the quad is loaded beyond it's HP capability at it's rev limit(for example, an overweight rider or you are climbing a steep hill) is that the RPMs will drop until it gets into it's peak horse power range. If that is still not enough HP to pull the load at that speed (gear ratio) the RPMs will drop out quickly and you will be forced to shift to a lower gear giving you more torque(higher gear ratio) at the expense of speed. If the load is beyond the peak HP in 1rst gear you won't even get rolling(like me on a powerwheels :( )

A CVT transmission manages the speed/torque (gear ratio) for you by changing the ratio according to load and if they are adjusted correctly, it keeps the RPM in the peak HP range.

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by khen
Most motor vehicles typically have a peak horsepower that is lower than the max RPM (or rev limit). What will happen if the quad is loaded beyond it's HP capability at it's rev limit(for example, an overweight rider or you are climbing a steep hill) is that the RPMs will drop until it gets into it's peak horse power range. If that is still not enough HP to pull the load at that speed (gear ratio) the RPMs will drop out quickly and you will be forced to shift to a lower gear giving you more torque(higher gear ratio) at the expense of speed. If the load is beyond the peak HP in 1rst gear you won't even get rolling(like me on a powerwheels :( )

A CVT transmission manages the speed/torque (gear ratio) for you by changing the ratio according to load and if they are adjusted correctly, it keeps the RPM in the peak HP range.

See, basically what you stated here is what I was thinking. When under a heavy load, you are going to suffer from a speed loss. I knew that the RPMs will drop if the load gets too great. I guess what was happening with my friend is the fact that he couldn't really "top" it out cause of his weight. The concept was there but the facts where still sketchy.

[khen]

Originally posted by MrTrendy1
See, basically what you stated here is what I was thinking. When under a heavy load, you are going to suffer from a speed loss. I knew that the RPMs will drop if the load gets too great. I guess what was happening with my friend is the fact that he couldn't really "top" it out cause of his weight. The concept was there but the facts where still sketchy. I hope that you don't think that I was disagreeing with you on the weight/performance issue because I agree with you completely, in most cases the lower the weight the better the performance/speed. The only exceptions I can think of are the 2 that have been mentioned, gravity(going down hill) and in some cases traction. For example, my brother has a highly modified Blaster and he used to be able to climb Sand Mountain(LS Utah) at the top of 2nd gear with reqular knobby tires by sitting way back on the seat. Over the last couple of months he has lost 30 pounds and now can't climb it at all, his tires just spin at about 2/3 the way up.

I was just side tracking the thread by nit-picking your argument on the motor RPM/top speed point with a manual transmission.
:)

[MrTrendy1]

Nah, I knew you weren't totally disagreeing but trying to prove a different point. You are right in what you were saying. Nothing wrong with nit-picking a thread to get a discussion going, isn't that what its here for? :)

[wilkin250r]

True, the peak power is almost ALWAYS at a lower RPM than the rev limit. The rev limit isn't based on peak power, it's based on possible damage to the engine. If a quad peaks at 7000 rpm with 48 hp, you still probably have at least 40HP at 8000 rpm, so there's no sense in setting the rev limit at 7500rpm.

At some point, the internal forces of the engine get too great and you risk breaking something. THIS is where the rev limit is set, to protect the engine, not because of power characteristics.

However, this little issue has been addressed many times, indirectly. As long as the 3-person quad can hit the rev limit. It's been said over and over. Obviously if the quad does not hit the rev limit, it's not going the same speed as a quad that is at the rev limit.

[khen]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
However, this little issue has been addressed many times, indirectly. As long as the 3-person quad can hit the rev limit. It's been said over and over. Obviously if the quad does not hit the rev limit, it's not going the same speed as a quad that is at the rev limit.

Good summary.. So the quad with three people on it might require 48 hp to pull them so with the throttle pinned the max rpm's they would get is 7000 dropping their speed proportionatly.

To me the interesting variable becomes how engine temperature plays an effect on this. A engine under a higher load will run quite a bit hotter which in turn will rob a significant more amount of power. So if you have a quad with more effective cooling(liquid cooling) and a air cooled quad with the same horsepower rating, the liquid cooled quad will have a higher horsepower under load or be more efficient. I have seen this personally when climbing long steep hills, my EX starts to feel real warm towards the top and as a result I have to downshift because the rpms start to drop out. :( I am trying to find a way to resolve this.. anyone??

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by khen
To me the interesting variable becomes how engine temperature plays an effect on this. A engine under a higher load will run quite a bit hotter which in turn will rob a significant more amount of power. So if you have a quad with more effective cooling(liquid cooling) and a air cooled quad with the same horsepower rating, the liquid cooled quad will have a higher horsepower under load or be more efficient. I have seen this personally when climbing long steep hills, my EX starts to feel real warm towards the top and as a result I have to downshift because the rpms start to drop out. :( I am trying to find a way to resolve this.. anyone??

Spit on it! Haha.. Is there a way to liquid cool a EX? The only other things I think help that are the air scoops but I don't know anything about how well they help cool. You could always carry a bottle of air temperature water and just poor it on it halfway up the hill. Probably not the best thing on it but couldn't be worse than diving a quad off into a puddle of water/mud.

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by MrTrendy1
Spit on it! Haha.. Is there a way to liquid cool a EX? The only other things I think help that are the air scoops but I don't know anything about how well they help cool. You could always carry a bottle of air temperature water and just poor it on it halfway up the hill. Probably not the best thing on it but couldn't be worse than diving a quad off into a puddle of water/mud.

FST adds water cooling.....:cool:

[MrTrendy1]

Is it expensive or should I just slap myself for asking that?

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by MrTrendy1
Is it expensive or should I just slap myself for asking that?
I'm really not sure. Email him of call him.:cool:

[MrTrendy1]

I think it probably would be a great idea if I had a 465 or higher on mine. Maybe a 440 would benefit from it as well. I wonder if it really is worth it.

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by MrTrendy1
I think it probably would be a great idea if I had a 465 or higher on mine. Maybe a 440 would benefit from it as well. I wonder if it really is worth it.

You would be better served with a 3x size oil cooler a place called Desert ________. Can't think or the full name at the moment.:confused:

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by RIDER11X
You would be better served with a 3x size oil cooler a place called Desert ________. Can't think or the full name at the moment.:confused:


desert toyz

[94snake300ex]

listen I am 6' 270 lbs. and i ride a 300. My quad with me on it would go just as fast as if anyone else lighter was on it. Your full of bull.

[khen]

I did some reading on the FST cooling system, the only one I can find is an oil cooler. It re-routes the oil out of the hot engine through a radiator(transmission cooler type) and then back over the cam/head so that the top end gets cooler oil. With this design you are not dumping already heated up oil over the top end. The end result is a claimed 40% cooler running motor! Sounds good to me, this will be one of my next purchases. Thanks!!

[RIDER11X]

I am partial to the Dezert Toyz (Thank You!) cooler as it uses the stock mounting and requires no drilling of the motor. And it is 3X the size!!!!! Very cool!:cool:

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by 94snake300ex
listen I am 6' 270 lbs. and i ride a 300. My quad with me on it would go just as fast as if anyone else lighter was on it. Your full of bull.

We've proven this issue. I garantee I will outrun you all day long if I was riding the same quad you where. It would take you twice as long to get up to full speed as it would for me, I could lap you twice and you'd just finally be getting to full speed. Please don't take me as I'm poking fun at you or knocking your size at all, cause I'm not. My best friend is a tad bigger than you and I don't care at all about it.

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by khen
I did some reading on the FST cooling system, the only one I can find is an oil cooler. It re-routes the oil out of the hot engine through a radiator(transmission cooler type) and then back over the cam/head so that the top end gets cooler oil. With this design you are not dumping already heated up oil over the top end. The end result is a claimed 40% cooler running motor! Sounds good to me, this will be one of my next purchases. Thanks!!

I read a review of that cooling system myself. It showed some pictures and such. I just am not a fan of drilling into my engine for things like that. I'm with Rider11x about the Desert Toyz cooler. It's a pretty good idea, and a good thought if I was going to be running something that will be producing more heat than a stock engine.

[Ryan]

Rider11X, I sent ya a pm.

[ewalker302]

Originally posted by MrTrendy1
We've proven this issue. I garantee I will outrun you all day long if I was riding the same quad you where. It would take you twice as long to get up to full speed as it would for me, I could lap you twice and you'd just finally be getting to full speed. Please don't take me as I'm poking fun at you or knocking your size at all, cause I'm not. My best friend is a tad bigger than you and I don't care at all about it.

You are way off on that one.
It may take a little longer to get up too speed but nowhere near twice as long.

Weight WILL make a difference, but not that big of a difference, if it did we would have midgets winning every race.

:bandit:

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by ewalker302
You are way off on that one.
It may take a little longer to get up too speed but nowhere near twice as long.

Weight WILL make a difference, but not that big of a difference, if it did we would have midgets winning every race.

:bandit:

Explain jockeys to me then. :devil:

[RIDER11X]

Have you ever met Matt Smiley, Doug Gust, or Kory Ellis in person? All of these guys are bigger than most of their compitition but are pack leaders.:cool:

[khen]

Obviously the less horsepower you're dealing with the more weight becomes a factor. In an F-16 fighter the weight of the pilot is insignificant, but on a powerwheels jeep a 30 pound kid will walk all over a 200 pound man.

My experience has been that a 28 HP+ quad on level ground the difference between a 150 pound rider and a 210 pound rider is insignificant in top speed and exceleration. I know this because my brother and I race a lot and swap quads with the exact same results. By insignificant I mean that it is a very, very small factor in a race. Shifting, handling, overall rider skills and endurance(strength) play a way bigger factor.

Given the same skill and race built quad, I would put my money any day on a 6'5" 300 pound ripped racer over a 150 pound weak racer in ATV MX racing. In a drag race I might go the other way, but the line wouldn't be as clear. By the same token if a 5'8" 300 pound weak blubbery guy went against a 150 pound weak skinny guy I would have to look at who has the fire in their eyes. :p If no one has the fire, I would go for the 150 pound guy.

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by RIDER11X
Have you ever met Matt Smiley, Doug Gust, or Kory Ellis in person? All of these guys are bigger than most of their compitition but are pack leaders.:cool:

Never met them, just seen the pictures. Gotta say, Doug is amazing too. Those quads they ride are also not your typical stock quad though. Wish I had one of them too!

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by khen
My experience has been that a 28 HP+ quad on level ground the difference between a 150 pound rider and a 210 pound rider is insignificant in top speed and exceleration. I know this because my brother and I race a lot and swap quads with the exact same results. By insignificant I mean that it is a very, very small factor in a race. Shifting, handling, overall rider skills and endurance(strength) play a way bigger factor.

Given the same skill and race built quad, I would put my money any day on a 6'5" 300 pound ripped racer over a 150 pound weak racer in ATV MX racing. In a drag race I might go the other way, but the line wouldn't be as clear. By the same token if a 5'8" 300 pound weak blubbery guy went against a 150 pound weak skinny guy I would have to look at who has the fire in their eyes. :p If no one has the fire, I would go for the 150 pound guy.

I guess you are right. I just have gone by racing my friend and I school him all the time, no matter what he rides. He has riden far longer than I have and is far more daring as well. He has that "fire" you mentioned. Although, I know this probably doesn't sound like a fair match, but when we ride, my friend will ride a Grizzly 660 and me on my 400ex. I know that thing will top out around 68ish mph with either of us on it, so its pretty fast. I generally can just school him left and right, run circles around him, then beat him. On a flat out run, he doesn't stand a chance on it against me. In this situation I suppose the weight and quad difference makes a difference. That Grizzle is no where near hindered by its size, the 660 makes up for it in many ways.

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by MrTrendy1
Never met them, just seen the pictures. Gotta say, Doug is amazing too. Those quads they ride are also not your typical stock quad though. Wish I had one of them too!

Yea, but they are only limited by the class rules that everyone else builds their quads by, so they are all similar machines, and their bigger size don't hurt them.;)

[94snake300ex]

Ive met doug he doesn't live far from me either. This guy is unbelievable and he's not a twig at all. And by the way there is a difference between fat weight and muscle weight too. Just because the scale says a guy weighs 270 doesn't mean he's fat. Oh and by the way MrTrendy1, I'm a pretty good rider, and I really don't think you would run circles around me.

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by 94snake300ex
Ive met doug he doesn't live far from me either. This guy is unbelievable and he's not a twig at all. And by the way there is a difference between fat weight and muscle weight too. Just because the scale says a guy weighs 270 doesn't mean he's fat. Oh and by the way MrTrendy1, I'm a pretty good rider, and I really don't think you would run circles around me.

Yeah, I know you'd prob whoops my arse. I'm not a highly experience racer, so I won't deny being beat. You are right, there is a difference between fat weight and muscle weight. Fat weight is lighter than muscle weight from what I've read. You could look like you are real fit and muscular but yet weight a lot or be flabby and not weight as much as the muscular guy.

Although Snake, I bet I could beat you in a drag with you on yours and me on mine! :D

Everyone is wrong! The reason you all are getting mixed results between the heavy and light riders has nothng to do with weight! It has to do with the earth's rotation. If you are going against the earths rotation, you will have an advantage, because the rotation will be working with the spinning of your wheels. If you are racing with the earth's rotation, your engine will have to work harder because it is literally having to push the world in a different direction. This is, of course, the only true way to explain why so many of you are having mixed rusults between heavy and light riders:blah:

[Flo Bee]

I'm a drag racer, so forgive me. Weight's everything to us.

As far as acceleration goes, in a car, 100lbs = ~.1 in the quarter mile in a car. On a bike, the general estimate is 20lbs = ~.1 in the quarter. So basically, if you add or subtract that weight, you can figure on impacting your time by a tenth of a second.

As far as top speed is concerned, you're going to have a harder time getting the motor to do the work it needs to do (rev out) with added weight. This will slow you down if enough weight is applied to the equation. Your answer to this problem is to produce more power and torque.

Power and torque simply allow you to overcome the physical obstacle standing in the way (weight). With more power and torque, you can push that mass more quickly and get the full rev value out of the motor. If you add more power, it'll rev to that point in less time, making you quicker.

That's my 3am breakdown of what I just read through.

I have to admit, I got a chuckle reading...


Explain jockeys to me then.

[94snake300ex]

Although Snake, I bet I could beat you in a drag with you on yours and me on mine!

As far as power goes my quad would keep up with your stock 400 if not pull it a little. But with me on mine you probably would beat me in a short race like a drag.

[MrTrendy1]

Originally posted by 94snake300ex
As far as power goes my quad would keep up with your stock 400 if not pull it a little. But with me on mine you probably would beat me in a short race like a drag.

Thats what I meant, a drag. As for any other type, I'm sure if you are even remotely experienced, you'd beat me. I have not ran XC or MX ever, plus my stock 400 probably wouldn't handle too great on those things against a modded out 300.