web cam or Hotcams stage 1? [Archive]

Pappy

05-12-2004, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by Rico

The cheaper route by far is the hot cam..:cool:

not if comes apart and takes out the engine:o they say they have the problem fixed, but the track record ive seen will keep me from buying a hotcam. every weekend at the track i listen to stories about an engine grenading and low and behold most of the time it was a hotcam and the person never knew hotcam had an issue.

Doibugu2

05-12-2004, 08:31 AM

white bros makes 2 cams' with a very similar grind as the web cams. And those don't require hardend rockers. Course you still need to return the core.

Price is also about the same as hotcams too.

05-12-2004, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Pappy
not if comes apart and takes out the engine:o they say they have the problem fixed, but the track record ive seen will keep me from buying a hotcam. every weekend at the track i listen to stories about an engine grenading and low and behold most of the time it was a hotcam and the person never knew hotcam had an issue.

Well of course you know my thoughts on hotcams. I'd put my stocker back in before I'd run one of them dog turds with lobes on it..:o

The only other cam that I know of that comes close in cost is the stock xr400 cam (which will not fail). most other cams run around $200 or more. Cheap price mean cheap product...:confused:

I love these hotcam wars......:devil:

zephead400ex

05-12-2004, 08:47 AM

Rico, how is the power gains with the xr400 cam?

05-12-2004, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by zephead400ex
Rico, how is the power gains with the xr400 cam?

Nice cam but all bottom end and mid. Trail cam only in my opinion.

No hard hitting pull but very very smooth, reliable as it gets and better than stock.

If ya want the best cam on the market get a HRC cam and be done with it.:cool:

UglyMotha™

05-12-2004, 09:05 AM

listen to you girls :o

my hot cam is solid as a rock http://www.exriders.com/vbb/images/icons/icon14.gif

zephead400ex

05-12-2004, 09:05 AM

Thanks Rico.

05-12-2004, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by UglyMotha™
listen to you girls :o

my hot cam is solid as a rock http://www.exriders.com/vbb/images/icons/icon14.gif

I recommend you buying a lottery ticket cuz your a lucky SOB...:blah:

UglyMotha™

05-12-2004, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by Rico
I recommend you buying a lottery ticket cuz your a lucky SOB...:blah:

hey if you want somthing built right then ya build it yourself :eek: :blah: LMAO

wish i was lucky enough to hit the lottery cause i sure could use it :devil:

MIKE400EX

05-12-2004, 11:51 AM

The White Bros. track cam is a reboxed Web Cams 450/451, (unless White Bros. changed something lately), both are hard welded. White says you don't need hard welded rockers and Web (the actual mfg.) says that they are highly recomended. The above two and the Hot Cam Stage 2 all have very similar specs. I've ridden similar bikes (sorry) with both. The Web seemed to be a little better all-around, but IMO not worth the additional cost if you factor in the rockers. Neither one requires different springs. If you're going to hang it wide open a lot, then a fresh set of springs or even heavier ones would be good insurance (valve and piston meetings are NOT good). The Hot Cam Stage 1 is almost as strong on top, in the usual ported & pistoned engine, but will get you there much quicker as the bottom to mid power is much better.
I'm wondering if most of the cam problems are from people throwing a top end cam on a tired bottom end, re-using exhausted valve springs, or not even adjusting the lash properly, and then beating the daylights out of it?

sideways

05-12-2004, 02:37 PM

so web cams only makes a mid to high range cam? if so then that might sway me toward tempting fate and getting the hotcams. and if i get an XR400 cam, will that give me low to mid range?

I ride almost only trails, hillclimbs, and jumps occasionally. not many places to open her up around here so i was looking for a good trail cam.

EXDUNER127

05-12-2004, 02:52 PM

What cam is best for racing the hills in the dunes?

MIKE400EX

05-12-2004, 03:42 PM

Sideways,
Web does make a #479 grind cam that will yield more bottom end torque/power than the 450/451 grind. However it is more aggressive and you'll need shortened valve guides, should have heavier springs, and you must use hard welded rockers. It will hang right there with any stage 2, HRC or 450/451 on the top too. We probably ride in the same type of areas. A ported head, stage 1 cam and a 10.8/11:1 piston will make you happy on a budget.

Exduner,
I have never ridden in the dunes, would love to though. Most duner's seem to like the top end cams. Maybe one can chime in and help you more. Sorry.

Matt400ex_17

05-12-2004, 07:31 PM

Web does make the cams for WB and the last time i had checked the specs on about 75% of the pros bikes there all runnin the hot cam. Me personally i dont want a rejected stock welded onto cam its a VERY cheap and shows what kinda of a company they are.

MIKE400EX

05-12-2004, 08:43 PM

How's the Web Cam in your 330ex??????:huh

EXDUNER127

05-13-2004, 03:43 PM

What stg should i run my 400ex with if i ride mostly dunes and hill racing, do i want more torq or bottom end for the hills?

05-13-2004, 04:00 PM

Stage 2 definitlyl EXduner...:cool:

racerboy43

05-17-2004, 10:16 PM

I was talking with Hot Cams' Tony Tice the other day. He said to check this site out for stuff on Hot Cams. I was assuming he meant good stuff on Hot Cams. I looked at several kind and complimentary posts until I got to this one. Pappy and Rico are set aganst Hot Cams? From their number of posts they have been here a long time.

I'm the first person ever to have a Hot Cam TRX400EX camshaft installed in his bike. It was done by Tony too. That was four years ago. Tony removed the flange and sprocket and pressed the flange onto the new camshaft. It was up and running in half an hour start to finish. I've set the valves 5 times since the cam was installed. I raced last weekend with it. Fast enough for a 230 lb guy to place 3rd.

I just called him into his own house so he could see the sh#t you are talking. Just out of curiousity, what was it that Hot Cams did to you guys? You buy something that didin't perform as advertised? I don't see anything in your sigs that would indicate Hot Cams. What did he do to you?

RB43

cals400ex

05-18-2004, 12:07 AM

the old style hotcams had a tendency to come apart. they are now fixed (from what they tell us). i am running one in my bike and don't have any problems. if i wanted to spend more than $125, i would have a different brand too. but, for the price i guess you can't beat it.

Doibugu2

05-18-2004, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by racerboy43
You buy something that didin't perform as advertised? I don't see anything in your sigs that would indicate Hot Cams. What did he do to you?

RB43

Do a search for hotcams and you will get enough posts to show what was wrong.

I think both Rico and Pappy will agree that Tony did right by his customers and fixed the defective cams for his customers. Heck Tony is a member here.

I think the consensus was is that Exriders did his R&D for him because he should have found the flange problem himself through proper testing.

cory

05-18-2004, 12:10 PM

Been racing a Web 9i for the last four seasons...big dirt ovals with alot of WFO throttle. Hard rockers and the like included, and I have never (NEVER) had a problem. Keep up with the lash, and race....

Cory

Web, please send me a T-shirt for this plug. Thanks.

400ex with alot of stuff in it.........

05-18-2004, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by racerboy43

I just called him into his own house so he could see the sh#t you are talking. Just out of curiousity, what was it that Hot Cams did to you guys? You buy something that didin't perform as advertised? I don't see anything in your sigs that would indicate Hot Cams. What did he do to you?

RB43

Tony did nothing to me and I have nothing against him what so ever. He did the right thing by replacing any cams that had the flange problem but what about the poor guys engine that grenaded do to it failing:confused: Who knows how many motors have jumped timing and had valves slam into pistons and the poor SOB had no idea why and is now out $1,000. As mentioned above lots of members on exriders did the R&D for hotcams along with who knows how many others. We also have members that have had his cam in their motor for quite some time and not had one single problem out of it. The part WAS faulty but he has fixed it and I don't believe he's having any problems with the current cams he sells. I"ll never know because I'll never buy one.

Pappy

05-18-2004, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Rico
Tony did nothing to me and I have nothing against him what so ever. He did the right thing by replacing any cams that had the flange problem but what about the poor guys engine that grenaded do to it failing:confused: Who knows how many motors have jumped timing and had valves slam into pistons and the poor SOB had no idea why and is now out $1,000. As mentioned above lots of members on exriders did the R&D for hotcams along with who knows how many others. We also have members that have had his cam in their motor for quite some time and not had one single problem out of it. The part WAS faulty but he has fixed it and I don't believe he's having any problems with the current cams he sells. I"ll never know because I'll never buy one.

i agree....

and ill add:

hotcams continued being sold around the country with no knowledge of any issue (that we all knew was an issue) i called retailers and asked and they stated they had heard ZERO about the problem. buyers of the defective units that actually knew why thier engine grenaded could call and hotcams would take care of them...or so ive heard. others simply opened the wallet and bent over to rebuild. the biggest problem i have with hotcams is that there was never any public statement to thier retailers that an issue was preesent. i was ready to buy one when they first came on the market but was presented (by this site) with the failures and stayed away from them. im glad they got the issue resolved, i geuss its just too bad for the guy who doesnt know any better.

racerboy43

05-18-2004, 10:51 PM

On your concerns about other people's engines. BUT, do you KNOW, for 100% sure, that there are engine failures that were caused by the cams? Are you assuming that there have been failures or have you just heard that there have been failures? And if there have been, don't you think they would feel responsible enough to take care of it? I'll ask him, he'll tell me.

How many cams from Web have failed? WB? Any of the custom shops? Someone posted 75% of all the pro riders that race run Hot Cams. Seems to me that they must work and last or the pro riders wouldn't be using them. That also means there is a higher chance for failure when the numbers are like that.

Do you REALLY, truly, believe that Hot Cams used exriders.com people to do their R&D (don't you mean durability) testing for them? If you do, you need to re-evalute your personal position if life. I'm living proof that isn't the case.

And lastly, pappy, why would they alert anyone of a problem they are SUPPOSEDLY having? I certainly haven't had a problem. Even took it apart to see. Tony once told me these cams out-sell any other cam made 6-1, that pretty significant, if half of them failed, the numbers of returned cams world wide would be staggering.

I try to stay disconnected from forums because there is so much mis-information spread around it's staggering. I'll call Tony and see what the deal here truly is. Expect a report tomorrow night.

RB43

UglyMotha™

05-19-2004, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by racerboy43

And lastly, pappy, why would they alert anyone of a problem they are SUPPOSEDLY having? I certainly haven't had a problem. Even took it apart to see. Tony once told me these cams out-sell any other cam made 6-1, that pretty significant, if half of them failed, the numbers of returned cams world wide would be staggering.

:huh THERE'S NO SOPPOSEDLY ABOUT IT, THEY HAD A PROBLEM! THAT IS A FACT!

I alos run the old style hotcam and haven't had a single problem out of it, but there was a LARGE bad batch of cams that DID go out

05-19-2004, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by racerboy43
Someone posted 75% of all the pro riders that race run Hot Cams.

Please name these pros...

Originally posted by racerboy43

Do you REALLY, truly, believe that Hot Cams used exriders.com people to do their R&D (don't you mean durability) testing for them? If you do, you need to re-evalute your personal position if life. I'm living proof that isn't the case.

Are you series. :huh Did you truly believe that we meant exriders people did the R&D for hotcams. You read into things WAAAAY too much, loosen up that baseball hat man and let your brain breath a little. Were saying lots of replies came in from people who HAD failed cams, no here say chief, broken cam in hand with pictures.

The price on hotcams is cheaper than any other cam on the market that is why they sell 6-1. It's also a drop in cam that requires no other mods like some cams so if your on a budget then it's the way to go.

It's all good and we are not posting incorrect information as stated above, there were problems with hot-cams but now they're resolved..:cool:

Doibugu2

05-19-2004, 09:37 AM

I know you could say that some of the people didn't install them properly. I also remember Tony coming on here saying people were getting them pressed on wrong.

But here is one problem I found:

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90794&highlight=hotcam

Here is another, just with no engine damage. What I don't like is the stories from Hotcam just don't seem to add up.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60891&highlight=hotcam+problem

No engine damage, but still an QC issue.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60506&highlight=hotcam+problem

another

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57855&highlight=hotcam+problem

another!

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45763&highlight=hotcam+problem

How many examples do you need in order for us to prove our point? Rico, Pappy, and many others have been through this several times.

If 75% of the pros are using there cams, how come I have never see there stickers run on the side of there quads? Also, pros do a lot more engine rebuilds than the average rider. The average rider doesn't want to have to check the QC on every product they install.

Pappy

05-19-2004, 09:44 AM

Id say talking with people that had issues, and seeing the threads about many members having a problem with this brand then yes....an issue existed. did i personally have a problem? NOPE cuz I wasnt going to risk it....informed consumer;)

as far as the engines i have personally seen...maybe 4 or 5 that could be directly linked to the cam flange problem. the others were told to me and most of the time the owner didnt know why it blew up but after reading about the issue with hotcams could then piece together wether the flange problem indeed lead thier engine to come apart.

now, with mathmatics one could come to some realization of a percentage of cams that failed if you had a thread asking about how many people had problems. that wouldnt be good publicity for hotcams but if you would like ill start the thread and make it a sticky just for you.

secondly, at the height of the issue, people were advising to not purchase the hotcam unless they called hotcams and REQUESTED a cam without problems. REQUESTED:confused: now if you have to call a company and special order a cam that wont break there is a problem.

i wish no ill will towards hotcam....but i will not silence myself in regards to what i witnessed happening to members and other consumers much less be goaded into a pissy arguement on the internet over something that i make no money from...or have any connection with.

if hotcams wanted to do right IMO, it would have pulled all of its inventory from the field and replaced them with non defective parts. i sure as hell dont want to play russian roulette with my engine..do you?

now, that said, hotcams has indeed fixed the problem and yes, thier cams make great power gains. but due to thier handling of what i saw as a major problem i cannot and will not support them. advice is advice....take it for what its worth.

sideways

05-21-2004, 05:24 PM

thanks for the reply pappy, but i ended up with the hotcams anyway. I have my doubts, but at the same time i cant spend oh say 200 or more dollars on a web or other cam. if my engine blows, oh well time for a 450R

Quadworks

05-21-2004, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by racerboy43

I'll call Tony and see what the deal here truly is. Expect a report tomorrow night.

RB43

This was posted on what the 18-19. Tomorrow night has come and gone. I for one would like to hear the report he is going to give. So wheres it at??

hook

05-23-2004, 10:02 AM

almost a year an no problems with hot cam stg2

Quadworks

05-23-2004, 11:58 AM

Man, still no report?? He must not have did to good in school.

racerboy43

05-24-2004, 09:11 PM

Don't get your panties in a bunch. When you farm for a living you work as long a day as possible to plant your crops when the weather is good. Now that the weather is crap, and I have all the stuff that broke fixed, I can relax a little and PLAY on the computer. Sorry if I didn't meet your schedule.

First he told me to not worry about my cam and to not talk about this subject. Then he told me what happened.

To me, it didn't sound like it was a big deal but, it must have been. I know you can't please all the people, all the time. But, I also know, beating a dead horse is useless. Time to move on.

RB43