Fuel Injected 450

[hsr]

I just read over at www.racerxill.com that the 05' crf450 bikes are going to be fuel injected! Can anyone else confirm this??? I wonder if the quad will get the same treatment.

Here's the link:

http://www.racerxill.com/racerhead.cfm

( scroll about 3/4 of the way down )

[thomez]

I have one of those already :p

[JWhite]

SWEET!

From the site:

EJ got this from Fredrik in Sweden: “Here is a picture of a 2005 CRF 450. The pic was taken at the first Japanese National championship a couple of weeks ago. Okay, I know it looks like a 2004 CRF 250 but look closer…. It has a totally new frame and airbox. Look closer at the motor and you will see that it is a 450. The biggest news is that the motor has fuel injection! A friend says that the chrome piece coming off the wiring harness is the o2 sensor. This new F.I. virtually eliminates the four-stroke bog, or cough, or whatever you want to call it. And there isn’t a hot start cable because fuel injection doesn’t need a hot start. It fires up on the first kick, and dealers will have a program to custom tune ignition maps. Other changes include new fifth-generation frame, anodized trees, larger brake rotors, and a new airbox.”


http://www.racerxill.com/RXimages/racerhead/0417/t_2005CRF450.jpg

[twisted threads]

that sounds cool BUT.... if something goes wrong how are you going to fix it with out taking it into the shop.

[thomez]

With your laptop, same way I do. The EFI is usually pretty flawless.

[Florida400EX]

Looks sweet!

[twisted threads]

Originally posted by thomez
With your laptop, same way I do. The EFI is usually pretty flawless.

Now that sounds cool. How much did your laptop cost you? Or is it just a normal laptop with a maping program installed in to it??

[TheJeSter1340]

Cannondales use what's called a D&M kit, they sell for around $300 and it is the software that you use to change "maps" on your bike. Very cool stuff.

[oldsandman]

$300 for the d&m kit which is a cable with serial port on one end, 4 prong on the other and software to download maps, make throttle calibrations, injector offset adj...basic d/m. Then you need a computer (desk-top, laptop or i paq) to run it.

[thomez]

Thanks for the backup fellow Cannondalers. :macho

[TheJeSter1340]

no problem, always happy to help out a fellow 'Daler... Hopefully I will be getting me one soon.

[jst]

Appears that the Cannondales were ahead of their time.And yes,the f.i. does eliminate the 4 stroke bog,cough,or whatever.The mapping options are endless.Its muddy outside so you runa traction map,the track is hookin up great so now its time to let it rip,ENDLESS possibilities.

[kickin440]

What about the fuel pump? You have to have some pretty good pressure to have injection and you have to have a computer to run it all together which means a battery. Where would they hide that on one. Seems like it would be getting pretty heavy to me.
It will be cool if it's true though. :)

[BigThumper33]

the cdi doesn't need a battery

Why would FI?

[RMX500]

what does the E in EFI stand for? That's why it needs a battery.

Originally posted by RMX500
what does the E in EFI stand for? That's why it needs a battery. no...lights on 450r work without battery...this maybe could too :confused:

[Smoker]

Another step in the right direction...:p

[Bretmd94]

If they did have one with EFI, I would be glad that i have the one before the EFI.

It would need a battery. If you added any performance part to the motor, adding aftermarked parts might require the bike to be taken in to be remapped. It would add weight. If anything went wrong it would probably have to be taked somewhere that has a computer and software to figure out whats wrong.

I can see EFI being perfected and very usable, but i doubt that will happen anytime soon. Im perfectly happy with my Kenhin, my kick start, and the lack of a pain in the butt battery. :eek:

[TheJeSter1340]

W/o a battery you would have to do some kicking before it started, unlike on a bike w/ a Carb. the gas doesn't just "flow into the bowls" (it doesn't have any of those either.) The cannondales have a fuel pump that is run of the battery. so w/o a batter you would have to kick the bike, creating electricity from the stator that would make the fuel pump push fuel into the injectors before it would start.

Anyone else get what I said? :huh

[ThumPIN_450R]

arctic cat snomobiles have had bateryless efi for years my moms 600 mountain cant has it and it's sweet starts every time even after sitting all summer it fires on three pulls max and we have never had any problem with it for the 3 years we've owned it

[thomez]

Originally posted by Bretmd94
If they did have one with EFI, I would be glad that i have the one before the EFI.

It would need a battery. If you added any performance part to the motor, adding aftermarked parts might require the bike to be taken in to be remapped. It would add weight. If anything went wrong it would probably have to be taked somewhere that has a computer and software to figure out whats wrong.

I can see EFI being perfected and very usable, but i doubt that will happen anytime soon. Im perfectly happy with my Kenhin, my kick start, and the lack of a pain in the butt battery. :eek:

What I find funny is that similarly equipped, my Cannon will weigh almost the exact same as your 450R - and I have a battery, fuel pump, complex wiring harness, etc. The same applies to the YFZ - if it has only a kicker with no battery, it is lighter than either of ours. I guess you wouldn't want Honda to add that weight because the bike is already heavier than the competition, and is kick only.

[TheJeSter1340]

Thanks for the info thumpin, but still 3 kicks/pulls is more work than pushing a red button.

And to add to What Thomez said, they have almost the same amount of power, I have ridden a stock Cannondale Blaze and a YFZ450, the blaze pulled harder in the lower RPMs and the YZF pulled just as hard in the upper RPM's, if you change the gearign on a YZF i think they would be close to even. I dunno abotu the TRX's, but I don't think there would be a mind blowing difference between the TRX and YZF, except the YZF is probably more stable with stock suspension.

[the_hulkamaniac]

Quote: "... but still 3 kicks/pulls is more work than pushing a red button. " TheJeSter1340


Lazy, lazy lazy.

If the manual starting of a 450r puts you off the machine, youll never buy one. Get the yammie! It's been said time and again here and on other forums, they are very close. Stop beating the dead horse! PLEASE!!!!

Yes fuel injection will work without a batter, along with a fuel pump. A 250r can run a fuel pump even with it's pathetic electrical system. If the 450r gets the fuel injection along with an e-start, maybe some people will stop complaning. Personaly I prefer the kick and would have it no other way.

just "my .10c my .02c is free!" Eminem

[TheJeSter1340]

I currently Ride a CR250, I have done the time kicking it... especially when it fouls a plug (only happned 2x)

[roughrider01]

Originally posted by thomez
What I find funny is that similarly equipped, my Cannon will weigh almost the exact same as your 450R - and I have a battery, fuel pump, complex wiring harness, etc. The same applies to the YFZ - if it has only a kicker with no battery, it is lighter than either of ours. I guess you wouldn't want Honda to add that weight because the bike is already heavier than the competition, and is kick only.

The blaze weighs 25 lbs more, well 20lbs if you dont include the nerfs and hand guards, etc. Put a battery, fuel pump all the other EFI crap on the 450r and they would be pretty much exactly the same. I would think yours would be lighter with that aluminum frame, guess not.

[thomez]

Originally posted by roughrider01
The blaze weighs 25 lbs more, well 20lbs if you dont include the nerfs and hand guards, etc. Put a battery, fuel pump all the other EFI crap on the 450r and they would be pretty much exactly the same. I would think yours would be lighter with that aluminum frame, guess not.

ATV Action, May 2004

Tim Farr's race ready 450r - 380 pounds.

Cannondale weight, race ready, dry - 375 pounds.

Where do you get your weight numbers?

[TheJeSter1340]

I think he was talking about a stock 450r.

[roughrider01]

Cannondales listed dry weight for the blaze is 375, the Speed is 370. Hondas listed dry weight for the R is 350. Stock vs. stock

Tim Farr must be using the new DG lead filled nerfs or something to become 380 lbs. dry.

btw.. dirtywheels weighed both the yfz and r wet... yamaha was 378 and the wet weight of the honda was 376.. keep in mind these two machines were stock, take some of the stock crap off (tail light, headlights, foot gaurds, trim plastic, parking break) and you lose a some more pounds

[thomez]

So my quad, race ready, weighs the same as yours, race ready. I take all the parts off mine, beadlocks, nerfs, stabilizer, tether, blah blah - and I weigh just about the same too.

Where is this 20 pounds?

Remember I have all that heavy stuff - wiring harness, fuel pump, ecu, battery...

[sparky450AR]

Originally posted by thomez
So my quad, race ready, weighs the same as yours, race ready. I take all the parts off mine, beadlocks, nerfs, stabilizer, tether, blah blah - and I weigh just about the same too.

Where is this 20 pounds?

Remember I have all that heavy stuff - wiring harness, fuel pump, ecu, battery...


thomez do you want a burrito, taco, or maybe a chimichanga?



How difficult would it be to add EFI?

[roughrider01]

Ill use the cannondale speed as an example since the R doesnt have nerfs, handguards, etc. The manufacturers listed dry weight on the R is 20 lbs. less. Given we were to each take all the stock junk on each and mod them to be race ready with all the same stuff yours should be still close to 20 lbs more.

Im not meaning to argue with you about these to at all. Im just saying with the same things done to each given the R is 20 lbs less stock vs stock it should be around 20 lbs less race ready with all the same crap on it. Shouldnt that make sense????

I just dont see tim farrs quad being 380 lbs dry, it just doesnt add up to me, unless that was the wet weight.

[the_hulkamaniac]

Tim Farr's 450 is not using the stock swingarm either. None or very few of the top Dale's, kept there stock swinger. Beadlocks, LT shocks, axle, larger bumper, nerfs all things add up. 20lbs is easy to find.

[thomez]

The Blaze and Moto weighed 375 dry - use them not the Speed - they used additional light weight parts to lose additional pounds. There isn't any reason to add poundage to the Speed when you already have this done with the Blaze and Moto. 375 it is, dry.

Optimum makes an EFI for the CRF motor already, I believe. I wonder if that is what was seen in this picture of the "05" ?

I just got the weight from the Magazine, I can't vouch for its accuracy. I can only say I'll bet with mine and yours next to each other the difference will be +/- 10 pounds or so.

I like chicken burrito supremes, thanks..

In all seriousness I am not here to argue weight, I'm just saying that the fallacy that EFI is a huge weight problem really isn't true.

[roughrider01]

Originally posted by sparky450AR
How difficult would it be to add EFI?

To have KMS put an EFI system into a DS650 its around 1500$. You would need to probably ditch the stock carb and put some sort of throttle body on it, fuel pump, o2 sensor (do you use a EGT with efi too??), all the electronics, battery (if needed) and mount for that. I dont see just an average joe like myself ever being able to rig one up, would have to fork out alot of money to bring it to a shop. Maybe once the dirtbike one comes out they will make some sort of kit.

[thomez]

Originally posted by the_hulkamaniac
Tim Farr's 450 is not using the stock swingarm either. None or very few of the top Dale's, kept there stock swinger. Beadlocks, LT shocks, axle, larger bumper, nerfs all things add up. 20lbs is easy to find.

I don't know of more than 2 people NOT using the stock swingarms - breaking or cracking them is very rare. Moto/Blaze already had beadlocks. Moto had LT shocks, extended axle, nerfs, and the AC bumper (most popular for MX) is lighter than stock I believe.

[roughrider01]

thomez, the point i was trying to get to you was that your blaze has more race ready goodies then the R. Thats why i was using the speed cuz it was 5 lbs less, 370lbs. Im guessing thats what yours is close to without nerfs and whatever else...

Never meant to say efi is at all heavy; a fuel pump, some electronics and sensors wouldnt weigh all that much at all. So i 100% agree with you on that.

[thomez]

My original statement was


What I find funny is that similarly equipped, my Cannon will weigh almost the exact same as your 450R

I was just trying to counter the myth that EFI is soo heavy... it really isn't.

Another benefit - you could run almost half as much fuel in your tank since you get some really nice gas mileage...

[sparky450AR]

Originally posted by thomez
The Blaze and Moto weighed 375 dry - use them not the Speed - they used additional light weight parts to lose additional pounds. There isn't any reason to add poundage to the Speed when you already have this done with the Blaze and Moto. 375 it is, dry.

Optimum makes an EFI for the CRF motor already, I believe. I wonder if that is what was seen in this picture of the "05" ?

I just got the weight from the Magazine, I can't vouch for its accuracy. I can only say I'll bet with mine and yours next to each other the difference will be +/- 10 pounds or so.

I like chicken burrito supremes, thanks..

In all seriousness I am not here to argue weight, I'm just saying that the fallacy that EFI is a huge weight problem really isn't true.

Chicken burrito supreme it is!


1500$, ill stick with a carbhttp://www.tacomundo.com/menu/images/food/chickensupreme.jpg

[thomez]

THANKS!! :macho

[sparky450AR]

Originally posted by thomez
THANKS!! :macho

No problam amigo:cool:

[BigThumper33]

Originally posted by RMX500
what does the E in EFI stand for? That's why it needs a battery.




Originally posted by ThumPIN_450R
arctic cat snomobiles have had bateryless efi for years my moms 600 mountain cant has it and it's sweet starts every time even after sitting all summer it fires on three pulls max and we have never had any problem with it for the 3 years we've owned it

There goes that whole idea... eh?