cooling fan on 400ex

[Xowner]

i read some old threads on this but what kinda fan would you use to keep it alive and what kinda power source does it run off of and is their a switch or does it come on at a certain temp.?
i do alot of woods riding and this would help alot!

also how about the stock oil cooler i dont see how its getting any air threw it up their can i extend the lines down and put a bigger cooler up in front of the oil tank?


Thanks!

[400exdad]

I used a couple of computer fans that I bought off of ebay. There are two different sizes and the ones that I bought were just a little bigger than the height of the cooler. Side by side, they are almost the same. I run mine off the key switch... I think I tied into the connector on the front of the frame between the shocks. I found, like ten fans, for the price of one at Radio Shack. I got the idea from someone else on here and had to fabricate a little sheet metal housing for them. They've been on there for about 2 years and still are running fine. They are 12volt fans.

[660RaptorRider]

can u notice a difference?

[400exdad]

I'll say this: If the fan was like the one on a Z or Raptor, it would be more noticeable. However, when sitting with the motor on or off, I can feel the heat coming from the fans. So they must be doing something.

[Xowner]

these run off the battery ? do you ever have probs with the battery going dead? and were did you wire them in?

[Toadz400]

Bump.

I would also like to know how well this idea works.

[400exdad]

They are 2 little computer fans... they really don't draw too many amps (power), but they do move some air. I've got them connected to the quad power wire as listed above. Whenever the key is on, they run. You can feel a decent about of airflow from them too. I ride with my headlights on all the time... and of course the fans and when we ride with my 6 year old, you can imagine, we putt around. Never a problem. Go to RadioShack and check them out... you'll see the 2 different sizes and they are all 12V I think..... but buy 'em at ebay.

[Xowner]

how about some pics ? and do them were they blow into or draw into ?

[CowsBitePeople]

are those fans water proof? or anything?? i deffinetly feel the heat come off the fan on the dale;)

[400exdad]

Puller fans work better than pusher fans. So I mounted them from the rear... :) Anyway, the fans are not waterproof, but still work great... I got like 9 spares anyway! :D Cheaper by the dozen... Way Cheaper! :D I turn it over on its grab bar whenever I wash and we've ridden through all kinds of terrain... even streams, and no probs. I've got to work on the 400 today, so I'll take some pics.

[chucked]

how do u keep them on there

[400exdad]

Here's a couple of pics. I built a shroud or "fan box" from some aluminum and I believe the "box" is held in place by the same bolts... on top, that hold the cooler in place... I can't remember. I did have to move my clutch cable, see it in the pics and I had to shave part of the plastic air baffle under the tank, the make it fit right. You can probably tell by the pics. Everything works likes its supposed to.

Edit: I remember now, I had to notch the plastic tray to give the clutch cable the additional room to move back and make room for the thickness of the fans. You'll see what I mean. I also think I cut one of the drain nipples down too.

[400exdad]

Another.

[400exdad]

I was lazy, so I used a 3M quick connector. There are two wires that are together with plugs, near the front of the frame... a white one and a black one. I attached the fan feed to the black one. The fans run whenever the key is on.

The yellow wire is my fan feed wire.

[pure insanity]

this is kinda funny you post to use these fans on a quad. ive got a 87 chrysler conquest with a turbo motor. the turbo is oil and water cooled and has a seperate oil cooler. i had thought about using a set of these same fans on the oil cooler almost the same way you did on the quad.

[Uncaged]

Nice work on the bracket, BTW, that looks nice. Clean install.

:macho

It's good to know that those fans have been working for a while (and you can see the mud on them). Someone told me that they heard they didn't last because they weren't waterproof. Good to get the right info directly.

Thanks for the pics.

[400exdad]

Thanks for the compliments.... I'm better at fabricating than riding... :D

[spincr4hire]

glad to see someone else uses pc fans, lol...here is my design for my Z

[spincr4hire]

2

[HiperEX]

wow that looks nice i like the bracket thing did u make it yourself?

[400exdad]

I wanna know too. Did you make that bracket yourself, or did it come from a computer? Great Idea if you got it out of a 'puter.

[spincr4hire]

Yeah, I designed the brackets (3 pieces) here at work on our cad system (SDRC I-Deas). Sent the file to the machine shop, and they laser cut them out of stainless steel. Then my buddy pc'd them for me.

[NacsMXer]

Wow! those look great! Sano execution on the fans and custom bracketry. I'm a huge fan of custom fabrication, much respect to you guys. :p

[spincr4hire]

Originally posted by NacsMXer
Wow! those look great! Sano execution on the fans and custom bracketry. I'm a huge fan of custom fabrication, much respect to you guys. :p

thanks,
in my case, I refused to pay $250 for a stock radiator fan, when mine decided to quit.

[k2-dawg]

Originally posted by spincr4hire
Yeah, I designed the brackets (3 pieces) here at work on our cad system (SDRC I-Deas). Sent the file to the machine shop, and they laser cut them out of stainless steel. Then my buddy pc'd them for me.

Awesome job!!! Got some spare time at work to design one for a 400ex, there Spincr??? I got some beer money for an incentive.......:D

[400exdad]

K2 - Spincr will most likely work with ya... but the machinist is another story! :blah:

Looks good Spincr.... on the next set, cut some "Z's" in'em!

[honda_rider_08]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3669&item=3476986678&rd=1

just bought two of these!:blah:

[David]

It would be cool to put a Vantec Tornado. They pump a ton of air, but they are pretty loud, you wont here them over your quad, so it doesn't really matter. Their the king of air flow for computers. Most of the 80mm case fans are about 30cfm, but this is 84cfm.

Air Flow: 84.1 CFM
Noise: 55.2 dBA

I found one on ebay for $10. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3673&item=3477237831&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[R3Concepts]

Why not just contact Cory at www.deserttoyzatv.com and pick up his oil cooler. Its 3 times bigger then stock, mounts up to the stock locations, comes with new lines. $350 with new lines and another 15 off if you send him your old lines. It cooled my 426ex down 50 degrees, definetly worth it.

[spincr4hire]

Originally posted by k2-dawg
Awesome job!!! Got some spare time at work to design one for a 400ex, there Spincr??? I got some beer money for an incentive.......:D

K2, pm me some dimensions..shouldn't be a problem. I could have them for ya at the July H/M ride.

[400exdad]

David, how many amps do they pull?

[spincr4hire]

Originally posted by 400exdad
David, how many amps do they pull?

looks like 0.76 amps from the specs on ebay

[David]

Yeh, I looked it up on their website and its correct. www.vantecusa.com/product-cooling.html#

[400exdad]

Thanks. I can't get to ebay right now.

Thats about 9 watts each. Do you think the stock 400 stator should be able to handle that extra load? Anybody know for sure what the rating of the stock stator is?

70W for headlights
prolly 5W for tailight
ignition ?
battery charging ?

Maybe you sissy's should ride faster so that more air flows over the cooler.:blah:

[honda_rider_08]

hahaha good one rico!:blah:

[David]

Isn't it 2x30watts for the lights on the 400ex? The rear light is 5watts and 3watts ignition.

[400exdad]

Originally posted by Rico
Maybe you sissy's should ride faster so that more air flows over the cooler.:blah:

Don't take your frustrations out on folks at the forum... besides, aren't you due back in the ring? :blah: :blah:

[400exdad]

Originally posted by Rico
Maybe you sissy's should ride faster so that more air flows over the cooler.:blah:

OR...

Spoken by someone who will be pretty much retired from riding. :blah:

[hapychap]

Originally posted by 400exdad
Here's a couple of pics. I built a shroud or "fan box" from some aluminum and I believe the "box" is held in place by the same bolts... on top, that hold the cooler in place... I can't remember. I did have to move my clutch cable, see it in the pics and I had to shave part of the plastic air baffle under the tank, the make it fit right. You can probably tell by the pics. Everything works likes its supposed to.

:D I think your idea is great and the feedback sounds convincing to.

:confused: We live in a desert region and cooling on my wifes 400ex is a concern to me especialy since I am putting in a 416 piston.

My concern is this, I work for a Vehicle manfucaturer (American) and we face cooling issues on some of our SUV's in this region because it is so hot. As such we have a fix whereby we install an additional electric cooling fan when a customer complains about overheating. To cut a long story short, the fan has to be dealer installed to ensure that a relay is also installed which switches off the fan when the vehicle travels faster than about 20mph. The reason being that at higher speeds, the fan "creates" what is refered to as an 'air-dam' or a "wall" whereby the airflow coming in is faster and denser than the fan can generate and effectivly the fan creates a 'wall/dam' stopping the natural air from flowing through the various condensors. This situation is far more dangerous than the elevated tempretures created below 20mph without the additional fan.

In other words, as heat is a concern of mine, can any of you with any reasonable certainty say that this "air-dam" effect does not take place when your quads are at speed with the PC fans? It is fine that you can feel hot air against your legs when idling or low speed, but what happens at higher speeds with increased air flow?

Has anyone measured the temps before, during, after with and without the fans? I like the idea and would like to do the same but heat is a MAJOR concern of mine. Another factor I have to bare in mind is that because it is a desert region with very little vegitation :grr: the air is less dense so natural airflow is criticle and anything to increase it is good but anything "daming" it is :mad: remeber we ride dunes so the bike is screeming most of the time up and down the dunes riding as fast as we can, but this does not neccessarily translate to increased airflow over/through the bike.

Also one of the guys riding with us has the Z400 stock STD and it sux when he passes us on the straights which are towards the end of the trail when the bike is glowing red with heat already. Have ordered the Pingray high volume oil tank and the aluminium air box to remove the battery "wall" to assist with a clearer natural air passage, as well as PRM air scoops

I have thought about a larger oil cooler element, but looking at the bike, this would also 'disrupt' the air flow over the piston barrel which I would assume the most heat would be generated with no "mechanical" cooling and would therefore need all the natural undesturbed airflow it can get?

Would appreciate some feedback and if some "techi" type person could respond who could calculate (do the math) or set my fears to rest great. Otherwise your normal responses are always appreciated.

From the deserts of Arabia :blah:

[Chanman420q]

id say get that oil cooler, i was thinking about FST's but i dont like the idea of tapping my motor. because if and when i go to sell the bike i wouldnt beable to put it back to stock, like i would with this kit. And as far as the voltage, just unplug your rear tail like, better yet hook up the fans to the tail light, that way u get the power to the fans and u can turn them on when u feel need too

[northeast400]

wouldn't the faster incoming air. just spin the fans

[PHIL_B54]

Originally posted by hapychap
:The reason being that at higher speeds, the fan "creates" what is refered to as an 'air-dam' or a "wall" whereby the airflow coming in is faster and denser than the fan can generate and effectivly the fan creates a 'wall/dam' stopping the natural air from flowing through the various condensors.

am i correct in thinking that this would be the reason that fans have a clutch on them

[dawnchris]

northeast400--no, the fans will only spin at whatever their set max rpm is. That equals no further airflow.
PHIL-B54--Yup, thats what the clutch fan was designed for.

[Xowner]

wow nice info ! this is the best thread ive ever started !!!

[chucked]

this belongs in the FAQ

[hapychap]

Originally posted by PHIL_B54
am i correct in thinking that this would be the reason that fans have a clutch on them

But the PC fans would not have a clutch in them because it would be costly, no need for them in a PC environment and I am certain their designers never foresaw them being used on a ATV application.

However I still think the idea is great and would be keen to try it, I was hoping that some "techi" type person on this forum would know or have the ability to calculate the airflow and reach a conclusion as to yah or nay. Maybe a airplane engineer or something. (Wishfull thinking but hey, you won't know untill you try right? ;) )

I also agree this is one of the better strings I have come across and a great idea as well.

Xowner, have you ever taken temp readings before, during, after with and without the fans to get some sort of idea of the effectivness? I am sure in an ideling.stationary or slow speed invironment the fans would certainly benefit the cooling, it is the higher speeds that concern me.

:confused:

[Xowner]

naw man i only know mine gets too hot lugging around in the trails and woods i dont even know if i wanna go this route i think i might just blow the money and buy a oil cooler kit! i dont have any fans in their yet etheir b/c i might just dump this thing in a creek some were and buy a new 450!:eek2:

[hapychap]

Originally posted by Xowner
naw man i only know mine gets too hot lugging around in the trails and woods i dont even know if i wanna go this route i think i might just blow the money and buy a oil cooler kit! i dont have any fans in their yet etheir b/c i might just dump this thing in a creek some were and buy a new 450!:eek2:

My appologies, I thought you started the thread.

450R is the way to go. Magic machine, now I just need to heal from a broken collar bone from my fall on my 450R from my second ride on it only. :grr:

[Xowner]

i did start it but it was just a pipe dream i didnt reallu thing it was such a good idea lol:devil:

[hapychap]

Originally posted by Xowner
i did start it but it was just a pipe dream i didnt reallu thing it was such a good idea lol:devil:

Well, make the 450 a reality then and not another pipe dream. :huh

[400exdad]

I agree, the wind will not overrun the fan or the resistance of the motor to exceed its running RPM's. To be honest, I never thought of it as a dam, but it makes sense and by turning the fan off, as hapychap said, it allows the fan to freewheel. Cool!

My experience with my fans is this: At idle and slow speeds, I feel warm, or hot air flowing very quickly. I think they assist in the cooling problems that the 400 experiences at slow speeds. However, when we putt-putt for a long period of time (riding with the wife or 6 yr old :) ) the valvetrain does begin to make the unpleasant noise due to the heat. A good blast down the trail, at speed, usually helps the noise, which must mean the oil cools and the fans don't hender air flow.

I rather doubt, that the amount of air passing through the fans, if they were de-energized, would be enough to make them freewheel. If you spin one of them, they actually have a decent amount of resistance due to type motor that they are. Stationary magnets?

Great info hapychap!

[hapychap]

Originally posted by 400exdad
I rather doubt, that the amount of air passing through the fans, if they were de-energized, would be enough to make them freewheel. If you spin one of them, they actually have a decent amount of resistance due to type motor that they are. Stationary magnets?

Great info hapychap!

Greetings 400exdad.

Excuse my uneducated ignorance but in order to clarify please answer the following as individual questions.

Your 'fans' are always energised (switched-on)?
And at slow speeds you still get the pinging on the motor which indicates a 'overly' hot engine? (when puttering around for extended periods granted)?

However a quick speed run "cools" the bike down suffeciently to erradicate the pinging?
During the speed run your fans are still running/energised correct?

So the two scenarios above aside, the fans do not seem to be creating enough airflow to adequetly cool the oil while puttering around although I am certain an "un-fanned' motor would start pinging alot earlier?

[400exdad]

Hapychap,

The fans run whenever the key is on.

At slow speeds, with these tiny fans, the heat will catch up with it eventually. I wouldn't call it pinging. I would call it valve train noise due to the thinning of the oil. Before I ran Mobil1 is was even worse.

A little WOT run helps get extra air through and over the motor cooling it down. The fans always run. I also have air scoops.

I think some larger fans would help (more cfm) but a larger or remote cooler, perhaps with fans would help even more.

The tiny fans put the inevitable off a little longer... just like a bigger oil tank does.... from what I've read anway.

The change to synthetic oil made the most noticable difference.

[hapychap]

;) Thanx 400exdad

Some good quality and real value added responses. I have the answers I want. I think I know what I am going to do.

I think the fan Idea rocks and I am going to see if I can find some higher spinning and diameter fans.

:cool:

Would love to hear of any other ideas you may, especially where cooling is involved. :blah:

[muff]

I find this fan idea quite interesting but it seems like its only practical at some times in certain situations

I'm not here to talk anyone out of trying these fans, but I have installed a FST oil cooler in my quad. i have not ran it enough to notice the difference in temps, Dunlap states that it cools up to 40 degrees, and that cooler oil is getting dumped directly into the head. it was mentioned earlier that this is not removeable and was permanet after install, but the way i have installed mine it can be, but you have to split the cases to do so.

go to http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=106338 for install with pics

I'm not sure what size fans you guys are running, but i know in my pc i have a 120mm exhaust fan that pushes out quite a lot of air

[xcntry]

Great Thread! Has anyone thought of using the fans on the stock oil cooler and also installing the fst cooler. I have an fst cooler and a large oil tank. This has helped cool my 440 kit by about 50-60 degrees. But I think I will try these fans on the stock cooler to help while I am idling around at slow speeds. The stock cooler no longer gets good airflow due to the mounting location of the fst cooler. I think that the fans will help alot for idling around if I mount them on the stock cooler. I'll keep you posted on the tempurature differences!:D

[hapychap]

Originally posted by xcntry
Great Thread! ...... fans will help alot for idling around if I mount them on the stock cooler. I'll keep you posted on the tempurature differences!:D

:) Please do. That would be great!!! :D

[devildriver422]

ok sorry to bring back an old thread, but this is exactly what i need. im probably gonna be installing a 2nd oil cooler soon, but since that doesn't really help the overall motor heat, i need something else. I'm gonna be putting in air scoops too, but i've heard they dont' do much. so, i dont get how the fans pulling from the oil cooler will do anything to cool the engine?

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by Uncaged
Nice work on the bracket, BTW, that looks nice. Clean install.

:macho

It's good to know that those fans have been working for a while (and you can see the mud on them). Someone told me that they heard they didn't last because they weren't waterproof. Good to get the right info directly.

Thanks for the pics.

:ermm: I don't see the bracket....Am I missing something?

[muff]

Originally posted by devildriver422
im probably gonna be installing a 2nd oil cooler soon, but since that doesn't really help the overall motor heat

why do you say that??

you dont think cooler oil will lead to a cooler motor?

[devildriver422]

all the posts in here....people say itll cool the oil about 40 more degrees but that it wont affect the heat of the cylinder on the outside