The War in Iraq

[Narly R]

Who wants it? I am doing a thing on it, and just wanted to see who all thought that the whole "war" thing is a good idea or a bad idea? Or what do ya think about it all? Here is sumthin I found interesting http://costofwar.com/


:confused:

[Rrider4life8]

kill them sobs :mad:

[MOFO]

The way I look at it is like this....

* Scenario 1

Before 9/11
President Bush gets solid information about terrorist attacks based from Afghanistan and attacks the country. Liberals and others attack the President for this, just as they are with Iraq... trying to twist information to make it look like he's an evil dictator trying to take over the world... as some liberals might describe him.

* Scenario 2

We get attacked by terrorist and is found that they reside in Afghanistan. The President then launches an attack...later people say HE knew and had some information (although the gov't gets 1000's of threats a day) and did not attack before 9/11... he gets heat over this.

Either way, the liberals and others attack him. No CORRECT way of dealing with this because he's a republican. Damned if he did and damned if he didnt.

Now, lets apply this to the Iraq war. He received intelligence that Iraq was tied in with terrorist and providing financial support as well as WMD. In fear of another 9/11, he launches an attack to kill the threat at the roots....at the same time other issues are being dealt with...killing two birds with one stone. (ie freeing Iraqi people from an evil dictator)

So lets see, looks like Scenario 1 from my previous examples, huh?

Either way, whatever he does to protect this country, he will catch heat from the opposing party's...thats a fact!

The way I look at it is like this.... I have NOT forgotten 9/11 and I am very thankful we have not had another attack since. Our president is doing the right thing and thats why I support his descision... I base it on REAL WORLD facts....and my number #1 real world fact is what I mentioned above... no more attacks...keeping my family and friends safe is #1 on my list.

Overall, moral of the story... your damned if you do and damned if you dont... party politics will always determine on who is damned for what.

[Pappy]

2 words will express my feelings:o


SAND STAIN

[Bill Fuller]

We have done the right thing.I support the war and our president 100%.

[Atreyu]

I honestly do not want to get involved with what our country does. I just really don't care.. I believe that the decisions our president makes day to day are for a good cause but becoming an extremist is not worth my time nor is it going to influence the decisions of our leaders. Although I think we should have settled some problems within our own first.

[RMX500]

this needs to be closed for too many reasons..

[MOFO]

Originally posted by RMX500
this needs to be closed for too many reasons..


why? so far its been a good discusion.... whats YOUR problem with it???

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Atreyu
I honestly do not want to get involved with what our country does. I just really don't care..


I really hope this is not a common idea with kids these days.... if so, our country is in some serious trouble!


so you basically didnt care when 9/11 happened?

[Atreyu]

Originally posted by MOFO
so you basically didnt care when 9/11 happened?




That's deffinately not what I was saying at all. I said I do not mind what our country does, I do care what happens to our country and the citizens in it.

[RMX500]

Originally posted by MOFO
why? so far its been a good discusion.... whats YOUR problem with it???

it always turns into a fight. everywhere. someone says something and goes to far, then someone strikes out at them and hell breaks loose.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by RMX500
it always turns into a fight. everywhere. someone says something and goes to far, then someone strikes out at them and hell breaks loose.


I dont see that happening yet...

I think this is a good topic if people can act like adults.

[MOFO]

I noticed that 2 people have voted they think its wrong, but yet dont say why......Hmmmmmm.....

[RMX500]

Well I hope that can happen.

Myself, I am totally for it. It's really simple that Iraq is a country that lacked a real government and had a criminal regime in charge. WMD or not, Saddam commited crimes against humanity and did on a daily basis by keeping money from his people and living in his marble palaces. Nobody could challenge him and democracy was dead because any opponent would be killed.

The country is full of weapons, murderers, terrorists, dealers and is basically the mos eisley of earth.

I think the US is doing the right thing.

[bansheerider_13]

i agree with the war about 99%

the 1 thing that kind makes me mad is that president bush came out to early and said the war was over i mean all of us knew it wasnt and weve lost more men since then then when the war was still going on as they say but other then that mistake im all for it

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by bansheerider_13
i agree with the war about 99%

the 1 thing that kind makes me mad is that president bush came out to early and said the war was over i mean all of us knew it wasnt and weve lost more men since then then when the war was still going on as they say but other then that mistake im all for it

That's because all the bleeding heart liberals got politics involved with it. He had to lift up on the throttle to try and play the game:rolleyes: I say, if you need to drive a nail in, just get a big f'n hammer and knock the chit out of it until it's in. Don't stop to ask if it's too loud to anyone, just smack that mofo until it's flush. ;)

[250rmike]

i dont care what any1 else says i beleive bush did a very good job after 9/11 with this crap they knew it was going to happen. you never know anything is going to happen until it does. with all the threats we get as a country and how many accually happen its impossible to take every single one seriously. i am for the war to get rid of saddam but we will never get rid of terrorists and followers we are the most hated country in the world because we enjoy our freedoms and other countrys will find anyway to try to get at us

[Greg Z]

im for the war...

[Punk'd]

I say DROP THE BOMB and leave...

[Greg Z]

Originally posted by Punk'd
I say DROP THE BOMB and leave... how old are you? when you say drop the bomb this also means world war 3 and nuke warfare... kids that are 13 years old say that........... and if your not.. well.. think about it.. Its not smart.. Plus its towards TERRORIST not the WHOLE country..

[Narly R]

WOW. Everyone has good points. I am for the war, but i dont know any of the details like you guys really, so i am tryin to learn a little more about it. I payed some attention when the president was giving his big "speech" and they were saying that he could have stopped it (9/11), but like you all said, he gets threats EVERY day I am shure, how can he take ones more serious than others?

[RMX500]

i think the US needs to change it's rule of engagement severely to prevent so many casualties and suprises.

Iraq is PACKED with killers and thugs. anyone on the street can be packing a bomb or an AK-47.

[batgeek]

my opinion:

basically there are only 2 ways to handle this,
1) stay the f*ck out and not get involved over there, no matter what happened to us
2) wholesale take over of the country

what we are doing now is Bush Jr's version of Vietnam. a military policing action that isn't getting anything done(except more US and coalition troops dying, not to mention non-native and native civilians), procedures that will take forever to install a democratic government due to local insurgents that will continue to resist change...not to mention if and when we do leave with a stable government set up, it prolly wont lst very long due to said insurgents.

[DillonTMNT]

I dont get into political debates for many reasons:

It really doesnt matter what the people of the country say because it is run and controlled by the power that be anyways.

George Bush is a idiot. I personally am sickened that he is from my state. The main reason I hate him is not because of the war and how he is acting about it. I hate him because of what he has done in our country. Legalizing mineing of precious forests in the Rockies so his oil croonies can get more cash than they already have. also he changed pollution laws and Houston took over LA as the most polluted city in America.


He has done nothing for the middle and lower class of america.

I could write out all of the facts but you can just look here (http://www.punkvoter.com/images/dls/FLYER-40reasons.pdf)



The George W. Bush Resume

Past work experience:

Ran for congress and lost.

Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.

Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, company went bankrupt shortly after he sold all his stock.

Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using tax-payer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to Chicago.

With fathers help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.
Accomplishments:

Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in America.

Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog-ridden city in the U.S.

Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money.

Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history.

Accomplishments as president:

First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

In his first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.

Members of Bush cabinet are the richest administration in history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleeza Rice has a Chevron oil tanker named after her).

Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.

Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.

Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.

First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.

After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.

Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.

Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.

Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.

Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history.

Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.

Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.

Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.

Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history. · Withdrew from the World Court of Law.

Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).

All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)

First US president to establish a secret shadow government.

Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

Fist US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view his presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.

Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.

Failed to fulfill pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.

Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months there are no leads or suspects.

In the 18 months following the 911 attacks he has successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.

Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.
Records and References:


At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).

AWOL from National Guard and Deserted the military during a time of war.

Refuse to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.

All records of tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to his fathers library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.



-Dillon

[batgeek]

Dillon, the original post of that was from a Liberal website. i have seen it before on a message board where we get into alot of political discussion.

many of those are unfounded or blatently written to make W look like an idiot. some are true though.

[4OOex]

im all for the war it does suck now that we still have to spend probably years to come with troops over there until a government can be set up but i think overall it was for the best

[RMX500]

considering the economy is growing now at a rate it hasn't reached in AGES I think the liberals in this thread need to avoid that topic.

people doesn't really understand what 9/11 did. Be it 3 years ago.. NO president would make a difference in how it impacted america.

[batgeek]

i hope you people understand that historically, most economic growth/decrease are usually products of the prior Presidency not the current one.

[RMX500]

billy clinton, like ronald reagan (though not nearly as bad) packed up and left a defecit.

america basically HAS a massive defecit because of reagan.

[thomez]

We currently have the worst economic policy in place in US history. End of story.

[batgeek]

*ahem* New Deal...New Deal...Great Depression...New Deal.

too bad we had to have a war to pick ourselves up from that one.

[DillonTMNT]

Originally posted by batgeek
Dillon, the original post of that was from a Liberal website. i have seen it before on a message board where we get into alot of political discussion.

many of those are unfounded or blatently written to make W look like an idiot. some are true though.


yes there is no doubt that some are partially made up cause he couldnt be that bad of a pres. cause he owuldnt be in office. While some of the problems are a direct result of the past pres. no taking care of stuff Bush opening the flood gates on oil in Texas is not something that anyone can blame Clinton for. Bush has ruined Texas...Houston is a place I have lived all of my almost 20 years of life and I have seen it go from ok (temp. and humidity wise) to the worst in the USA. It has got so bad over the past 2-3 years that I pretty much stay inside all summer. I guess you have to be from Texas to know what he has done. It is like a freeforall on the Texas economical condition....I just dont think he is a good pres.



Also all of the kids on here saying "bomb them and run or somthing to that affect just makes me want to shake my head. Do yall not understand that Iraq is full of humans? I dont think you understand it from your small Fox News instructed minds. Killing innocent humans is as bad as 9/11. While I think is was very important to take out Sadam I dont think it is right to stay in there. I was to hear a plausible reason to stay in iraq right now. Also where are the WOMD I heard so much about a year ago?

Lets keep this civil guys..:)




-Dillon

[batgeek]

I guess you have to be from Texas to know what he has done.

nope, i grew up in San Diego CA...Bush Jr didn't do it, but i've seen it happen economically and enviromentally :(


Also where are the WOMD I heard so much about a year ago?

you really believe we are there for that? hehe

WoMD = Bush's justification....that is all.

[hondarider2006]

Originally posted by Rrider4life8
kill them sobs :mad:

[DillonTMNT]

Originally posted by hondarider2006



thats the idea....kill them let God sort them out...right? You call it Collateral Damage I call it murder.....get out of the crusades era people..




-Dillon

[DillonTMNT]

Originally posted by batgeek
nope, i grew up in San Diego CA...Bush Jr didn't do it, but i've seen it happen economically and enviromentally :(



you really believe we are there for that? hehe

WoMD = Bush's justification....that is all.


i believe thats what he said the reason for the invasion was. I also believe he has a ulterior motive that has something to do with three little letters...O-I-L

BUT I am somwhat of a conspiracy theorist so you really cant take what I say on this to heart...HEY atleast I am honest..:D


-Dillon

[DillonTMNT]

Originally posted by batgeek
nope, i grew up in San Diego CA...Bush Jr didn't do it, but i've seen it happen economically and enviromentally :(






you think San Diego is bad come stay at my place in July....we cook breakfast on our sidewalks..well..we could atleast :devil:



-Dillon

[batgeek]

justification and reason arent the same thing :D hehe

no conspiracy theory about why we are over there :) Bush Jr just wont come out and say it.

[250rmike]

one reason that we must stay in iraq is because if we pull out now then all the saddam loyalist still fightning will rise and take over the weak government that is in place and we will have another dictator like saddam. some countrys need dictators like saddam cause the are so many people in the country that want everything that they have to be kept in check somehow i mean look how the army and democracy is working over there. i mean alot of whats happenening prolly has to do with the fact that it was the US that did everything and they dont like us very much. But the fact still remains that we went n and took out there government and now its our responsibility to establish a new one

[Jeffksf]

The BIG picture is to get democracy started in the dictator dominated area of the mid east. If that happens and people get a taste of freedom then hopefully the extremist muslims will be handled by there own people. But as long as there are dictators ruling those countries holding their own people down so they can force there own beliefs on the people, hardly sounds like freedom to me.
THe other part of the BIG picture is Saddam was not following the rules the UN set up for him (kicking inspectors out) over 10 years ago. Now we all know that rules don't mean anything if they are not enforced and thats what the UN wasn't doing.
Other things to keep in mind, both the House and Senate voted and approved of going to Iraq.Saddam had more then 10 yrs. to hide the WMD can't we get more then 1 yr to try and find them?

Here is a good source to get news reports from all diferent sources. here (http://www.glennbeck.com/page2/index.shtml)

Of particular interest are the stories about the oil for food campaign the UN setup and how corrupt that was, that also may explain why France and others didn't want to go to war.

[JustRace]

I was all for getting Saddam out, but now its like WTF is going on over there. I keep hearing about the country getting turned over in June (I believe thats the date), but how are they suppose to get it ready by June when the violence is still picking up.

Also as far as Bush goes. Michigan has been hit hard by the economy. We as a state had one of the highest unemployment rates since he has become president. Actually the unemployment rate has doubled here in MI since he has become president. Also state workers (MDOC) are getting getting paid for 76 hours of work while actually working 80 hours. The state is taking the money out of their paychecks in an attempt to balance the budget. Once all the jobs in MI left (manufacturing jobs MI has lost over 1/4 million jobs since Bush became president) the budget ski rocketed.

[Ryan]

Im for the war......... When our country is attacked, we must put it stop to it, before it happens again and more Americans die. We can not sit there and do nothing about it. Our country will look weak and more attacks will happen.


If you do or don't agree with the war...... Atlease support our troops!

[thomez]

The American public has repeatedly been mislead and lied to about Iraq, there is no question about that.

At one time we were told they knew exactly where they would find WMD, they were sure about it. I believe that was 6 months ago.

Ryan, Iraq did not attack our country. We were also lead to believe that Saddam had connections with Al Queda and possibly Sept 11. This has also shown to be a lie. No connection has been established.

This election will be about if the American public will tolerate being mislead and lied to for another 4 years. I hope that they wake up and smell the coffee of what is going on here and put a stop to it. For me it is truly an "anyone but the shrub" election. If Kerry establishes that he is capable of doing the job, gains the trust of the American people, he will have a very good chance against the right wing money-raising machine. I'll be hoping :macho

[zephead400ex]

I like Bush. It is ridiculous to speculate that the President and his advisors knew that 9/11 was going to happen. If he "did" know about the attacks prior to them taking place, what was his motive to let them happen? So we could attack Afghanistan?, no! So we could attack Iraq?, no! I strongly believe the President and his advisors did not know of a specific attack nor did they know when or how it was going to take place.

Iraq:
The war in Iraq is very hard to have a solid stance on IMO. No matter what reason/justification Bush had to going to war with Iraq, we have liberated the people of Iraq from an oppresive regime, just like the Taliban in Afghanistan. However, as of last nigth there have been 107 American's killed in Iraq in 21 days! The price of freedom is high but I do have a hard time trying to stomach the fact that once we pull out of Iraq things will go to Haitie in a handbasket again. We have only been in Iraq for 1 year, a very short amount of time to:
1) dismantle Saddams regime
2) capture Saddam
3) setup an interme government
4) setup a working school system to better educate the young persons of Iraq to have them realize the way they were being treated and oppress is wrong.

The US and its coalition have changed one of the worst countries in the Middle-East in 1 year. The UN has failed and will continue to fail until they decide to actually be what they are intended to be; the worlds policeman. Until then, someone has to be the enforcer.

The thing I like about Bush is that is a great leader. I do not think anyone can dispute this. He stands up and stands up firmly for what he believes is right. After 9/11 he acted with quickness and (for the most part) precision on ousting the Taliban. It is not Bush's fault for 9/11 happening, it is Bin Laden's fault.

[thomez]

Originally posted by zephead400ex


The thing I like about Bush is that is a great leader. I do not think anyone can dispute this. He stands up and stands up firmly for what he believes is right. After 9/11 he acted with quickness and (for the most part) precision on ousting the Taliban. It is not Bush's fault for 9/11 happening, it is Bin Laden's fault.


Bush is good at 1 thing, doing what the right wing wants him to do. If that is strong leadership I am sure glad he isn't weak. Then we would just let Rush Limbaugh push the buttons.

[jcsact]

Originally posted by DillonTMNT
It has got so bad over the past 2-3 years that I pretty much stay inside all summer. I guess you have to be from Texas to know what he has done.

Lets keep this civil guys..:)

-Dillon

You don't have to be from Texas to understand the heat. It is just as bad here in Indiana and Bush isn't even from here.

Do you really want to vote for Kerry??? I have seen see-saws at the community park get less of a workout on a nice spring day then his campaign. He is riding the fence so much he has a picket coming out of his ***** just so he can get into office.

Oh and everything you read on the internet is true. :D

[zephead400ex]

I would also like to say that...umm...didn't Kerry vote for the war in Iraq?

BTW: it is about time that we can have such a controversial thread and not have it closed. It is pretty fun to have a controversy like this that we can debate in a civil manner:D

[thomez]

Originally posted by zephead400ex
I would also like to say that...umm...didn't Kerry vote for the war in Iraq?

BTW: it is about time that we can have such a controversial thread and not have it closed. It is pretty fun to have a controversy like this that we can debate in a civil manner:D


A lot of people voted for the war in Iraq, but did so with a lot of "facts" given to them that turned out to be lies. You can't fault people for that.

[zephead400ex]

Originally posted by thomez
A lot of people voted for the war in Iraq, but did so with a lot of "facts" given to them that turned out to be lies. You can't fault people for that.

Because we have not found anything yet, does not mean that it was all a lie? IMO I do not believe so. We have only been there a year. Kerry has backed himself into a corner and will struggle to get out of it. I am not faulting anyone for voting to go to war with Iraq, just stating the facts. I agree with jcsact, Kerry needs to pick a side and stick with it. I have a feeling that if Kerry wins the election, the US will look worse than what it already does b/c he is spineless and does not know which way to turn on some of the issues.

Again, my opinion.

[Pappy]

lol price of freedom.

to take IWO JIMA (an island in the south pacific) in world war 2...we lost approx. 6800 marines with another 22,000 wounded.


they need to let the military do its job. if not get them home.

[thomez]

Originally posted by zephead400ex
Because we have not found anything yet, does not mean that it was all a lie? IMO I do not believe so. We have only been there a year. Kerry has backed himself into a corner and will struggle to get out of it. I am not faulting anyone for voting to go to war with Iraq, just stating the facts. I agree with jcsact, Kerry needs to pick a side and stick with it. I have a feeling that if Kerry wins the election, the US will look worse than what it already does b/c he is spineless and does not know which way to turn on some of the issues.

Again, my opinion.


It might not turn out to all be a lie, but a good portion of it has already shown to be. Uranium? Nuclear capability? WMD exactly right there in that spot? There have been many things said by this administration that have turned out to be completely false. Read Colin Powell's address to the UN and now ask yourself how much of it turned out to be true. They didn't buy it then, we can now see that they didn't for good reason. Some are smarter than we give them credit for.

[#1speedbump]

I support the war 100%. To read that any of you dont makes me sick. I served this country, my brother served this country, my cousins ARE serving this country, etc. As miltary personnel we dont have a choice of who or when we fight, it's our job. Our families are left without dads, brothers , sons, etc. Your sittin on your a** sayin GWB did this wrong or did that wrong, but you dont have the slightest clue. Chances are you haven't even finished your education yet, and believe TV. If you think there is a better option out there, we are in for a world of hurt. I also doubt half of you complaining are even old enough to vote. Dont even try to compare this to Vietnam either, that was a totally different situation and the men who died there deserve more respect than that. Fortunately for us there is a law that protects our freedom of speech, if there weren't I'd be huntin the yellow bellies who say we shouldnt be there:grr:

[zephead400ex]

Originally posted by #1speedbump
I support the war 100%. To read that any of you dont makes me sick. I served this country, my brother served this country, my cousins ARE serving this country, etc. As miltary personnel we dont have a choice of who or when we fight, it's our job. Our families are left without dads, brothers , sons, etc. Your sittin on your a** sayin GWB did this wrong or did that wrong, but you dont have the slightest clue. Chances are you haven't even finished your education yet, and believe TV. If you think there is a better option out there, we are in for a world of hurt. I also doubt half of you complaining are even old enough to vote. Dont even try to compare this to Vietnam either, that was a totally different situation and the men who died there deserve more respect than that. Fortunately for us there is a law that protects our freedom of speech, if there weren't I'd be huntin the yellow bellies who say we shouldnt be there:grr:

I appreciate you and your family's hard work and dedication to this country! Without people like you freedom is nothing. My cousins are also fighting in Iraq, 101st Airbourne Division.

Again, my personal thanks to all the men and women in uniform.

[Punk'd]

Originally posted by Greg Z
how old are you? when you say drop the bomb this also means world war 3 and nuke warfare... kids that are 13 years old say that........... and if your not.. well.. think about it.. Its not smart.. Plus its towards TERRORIST not the WHOLE country..


((( J-O-K-E ))):rolleyes:

[DillonTMNT]

Originally posted by #1speedbump
I support the war 100%. To read that any of you dont makes me sick. I served this country, my brother served this country, my cousins ARE serving this country, etc. As miltary personnel we dont have a choice of who or when we fight, it's our job. Our families are left without dads, brothers , sons, etc. Your sittin on your a** sayin GWB did this wrong or did that wrong, but you dont have the slightest clue. Chances are you haven't even finished your education yet, and believe TV. If you think there is a better option out there, we are in for a world of hurt. I also doubt half of you complaining are even old enough to vote. Dont even try to compare this to Vietnam either, that was a totally different situation and the men who died there deserve more respect than that. Fortunately for us there is a law that protects our freedom of speech, if there weren't I'd be huntin the yellow bellies who say we shouldnt be there:grr:


I also am thankful for you and your family for serving this country but who in the hell do you think you are? I cant stand a "holier than thou" attitude all of you military have. My dad served in Nam and it didnt do anything good for him. This country has screwed him over so much for "serving his country" With the half assed vet clinics here and the social sercurity depleation I dont know how anyone can serve. Do you understand you just said you want to kill me just cause I have a different opinion of you? I suggest you get some type of mental help...I am thinking some kind of drastic shock therapy is in order for you buddy...





-Dillon

[zephead400ex]

I was just sent this via email. This is perfect.

Worst president in history?
(The following appeared in the Durham, NC local paper as a letter to the editor. Please forward to all on your list as this will put things in perspective:) Liberals claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war. They complain about his prosecution of it.
One liberal recently claimed Bush was the worst president in U.S.
history.

Let's clear up one point: President Bush didn't start the war on
terror. Try to remember, it was started by terrorists BEFORE 9/11.
Let's look at the worst president and mismanagement claims.

FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333 per year. John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From > > 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year. Clinton
went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent. Bosnia never
attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions. Over 2,900 lives lost on 9/11.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us,President Bush has
liberated two countries, rushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put
nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. We lost 600 soldiers, an average of 300 a year. Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home.

Worst president in history? Come on!

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to
destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Teddy Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Our military is GREAT!

[Giz400ex]

Dillion, I've read your replies and I'm with you 100%!!!! I believe that what we're doing over there is amounting to nothing but dead US soldiers and the number is climbing and on the top of that, we'll send 10,000 more and sadly to say that the number of deaths will keep on climbing! This people (Iraqis) are a couple sandwiches short of a picnic and will do anything for whatever the hell they believe in:confused: Enough is enough, bring our soldiers home!!!

[DillonTMNT]

I personally think that the iraq people would rather handle this by themselves rather than having some democratic super nation come over and hold their hands while they rebuild everything. We DID what we said we were going to do and that was overthrow the Saddam regime. They dont want our rules and we shouldnt force iton them either.




-Dillon

[Cody_300ex]

Originally posted by Rrider4life8
kill them sobs :mad: :cool:

[thomez]

Originally posted by #1speedbump
I support the war 100%. To read that any of you dont makes me sick. I served this country, my brother served this country, my cousins ARE serving this country, etc. As miltary personnel we dont have a choice of who or when we fight, it's our job. Our families are left without dads, brothers , sons, etc. Your sittin on your a** sayin GWB did this wrong or did that wrong, but you dont have the slightest clue. Chances are you haven't even finished your education yet, and believe TV. If you think there is a better option out there, we are in for a world of hurt. I also doubt half of you complaining are even old enough to vote. Dont even try to compare this to Vietnam either, that was a totally different situation and the men who died there deserve more respect than that. Fortunately for us there is a law that protects our freedom of speech, if there weren't I'd be huntin the yellow bellies who say we shouldnt be there:grr:

Thanks for serving our country, but you are good and wrong on this one :macho

You gave no good reasons for war in Iraq. If you would like to propose that those that are not in favor of the war are in some way void of character, you should at least attempt to give a reason.

Vietnam was totally different, I agree. The communist world was a threat to the United States. Iraq has never been.


zephead400ex - that is some nice propeganda, but unfortunately it gives some false information.



Let's clear up one point: President Bush didn't start the war on
terror. Try to remember, it was started by terrorists BEFORE 9/11.


Bush did not start the "War on Terror" - it was indeed started on 9/11 - on the other hand, they have so far been unable to connect the war in Iraq with any terrorism on US soil. The Iraqi people have been able to kill more Americans in the past 20 days, since we are on their soil, than they have shown to have been able to kill pre-war if we had stayed at home. What threat were they to Americans a year ago? The only threats that we thought they were have only turned out to be lies from this administration.

[Rausch Creek]

I totally support the war in Iraq and everything that our government is trying to accomplish.

It is obvious that some of you do not understand the consequences if we were to prematurely pull out of Iraq. The war we are now fighting against the Muslim extremist’s is vital to the survival of our country in its present form. If we were to leave before the job is done, that would embolden thousands of terrorists and give them the impression that Americans do not have the resolve to fight back. I guarantee we would suffer many, many more attacks if we were not fighting this current war on terror. This war must be won or the American way of life cannot continue to exist. Just imagine if the next attack did contain WMD in a populated area. Our economy would collapse and there would be martial law. All of the freedoms that we hold so dearly would be lost.

I do not try to fool myself into thinking that our country will not be attacked again. But the fact of the matter is that the fewer of those cowards that we let live the better off our country will be.

I personally think we need to take some lessons from General Pershing and his tactics for dealing with this problem.


> John J. Pershing: Born September 13th, 1860 near Laclede, MS.
> Died July 15th, 1948 in Washington, D.C.
> Education West Point.
> 1891 Professor of Military Science and Tactics University of Nebraska
> 1898 Serves in the Spanish-American War
> 1901 Promoted Captain
> 1906 Promoted Brigadier General
> 1909 Military Governor of Moro Province, Philippines
> 1916 Promoted Major General
> 1919 Promoted General of the Armies
> 1921 Appointed Chief of Staff
> 1924 Retired from active duty.
>
> One important thing to note beforehand is that Muslims detest pork
> because they believe pigs are filthy animals. Some of them simply refuse
> to eat it, while others won't even touch pigs at all, nor any of their
> by-products. To them, eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood,
> etc., is to be instantly barred from paradise (and those 72 virgins) and
> doomed to hell.
>
> Just before World War I, there were a number of terrorist attacks on the
> United States forces in the Philippines by; you guessed it, Muslim
> extremists. So General Pershing captured 50 terrorists and had them tied
> to posts execution style. He then had his men bring in two pigs and
> slaughter them in front of the now horrified terrorists.
>
> The soldiers then soaked their bullets in the pigs blood, and proceeded
> to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad. The soldiers then dug a
> big hole, dumped in the terrorist's bodies and covered them in pig
> blood, entrails, etc. They let the 50th terrorist go. And for the next
> forty-two years, there was not a single Muslim extremist attack anywhere
> in the world.

I know this would never take place in this day of political correctness but it would be great to see.

Mike

[thomez]

I personally never said we should pull out of Iraq now, as I don't think we could or should do that. Terrible idea. What I did say is that I don't think we should have been there in the first place.

If you think the pork idea is going to work you are one crazy mo fo.

[DillonTMNT]

Originally posted by Rausch Creek
I totally support the war in Iraq and everything that our government is trying to accomplish.

It is obvious that some of you do not understand the consequences if we were to prematurely pull out of Iraq. The war we are now fighting against the Muslim extremist’s is vital to the survival of our country in its present form. If we were to leave before the job is done, that would embolden thousands of terrorists and give them the impression that Americans do not have the resolve to fight back. I guarantee we would suffer many, many more attacks if we were not fighting this current war on terror. This war must be won or the American way of life cannot continue to exist. Just imagine if the next attack did contain WMD in a populated area. Our economy would collapse and there would be martial law. All of the freedoms that we hold so dearly would be lost.

I do not try to fool myself into thinking that our country will not be attacked again. But the fact of the matter is that the fewer of those cowards that we let live the better off our country will be.

I personally think we need to take some lessons from General Pershing and his tactics for dealing with this problem.


> John J. Pershing: Born September 13th, 1860 near Laclede, MS.
> Died July 15th, 1948 in Washington, D.C.
> Education West Point.
> 1891 Professor of Military Science and Tactics University of Nebraska
> 1898 Serves in the Spanish-American War
> 1901 Promoted Captain
> 1906 Promoted Brigadier General
> 1909 Military Governor of Moro Province, Philippines
> 1916 Promoted Major General
> 1919 Promoted General of the Armies
> 1921 Appointed Chief of Staff
> 1924 Retired from active duty.
>
> One important thing to note beforehand is that Muslims detest pork
> because they believe pigs are filthy animals. Some of them simply refuse
> to eat it, while others won't even touch pigs at all, nor any of their
> by-products. To them, eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood,
> etc., is to be instantly barred from paradise (and those 72 virgins) and
> doomed to hell.
>
> Just before World War I, there were a number of terrorist attacks on the
> United States forces in the Philippines by; you guessed it, Muslim
> extremists. So General Pershing captured 50 terrorists and had them tied
> to posts execution style. He then had his men bring in two pigs and
> slaughter them in front of the now horrified terrorists.
>
> The soldiers then soaked their bullets in the pigs blood, and proceeded
> to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad. The soldiers then dug a
> big hole, dumped in the terrorist's bodies and covered them in pig
> blood, entrails, etc. They let the 50th terrorist go. And for the next
> forty-two years, there was not a single Muslim extremist attack anywhere
> in the world.

I know this would never take place in this day of political correctness but it would be great to see.

Mike


Thats pretty twisted dude. Wanted to do that to another human being is pretty sadistic. Thats as bad as Nazi death camp tortures. Yes you couldnt get away with that now cause IT IS NOT RIGHT. I dont even know what to say to you.....




-Dillon

[Rausch Creek]

Dillon-

I guess its okay for the terrorists to put bombs on trains and buses and kill innocent men, women and children. I guess its just fine to let them strap 50 pounds of explosives on and walk into a crowded restaurant. Let me guess you would say its our fault and maybe we just need to try and understand them better. Or maybe we could just keep doing what were doing over in Iraq and not stop until the job is done.

I get no joy from the death of another human being but I will say this. They chose to become terrorists and kill innocent people. This is a WAR!!!!! You win a war by killing your enemy! We need to hunt them down and destroy them, and yes sometimes to win a war you need to take extreme measures.

I hope and pray that we can help that country grow into a state of normalcy. And I do not have anything against most Muslims. While I do not agree with their religion, I do support their right to choose their religion. It is the extremists that we must battle.

And I have no idea how you can compare killing terrorists WHO ARE GUILTY OF MURDER to the killing of seven million innocent Jews who were guilty of nothing. That is pretty twisted.

[Max400]

A lot of people voted for the war in Iraq, but did so with a lot of "facts" given to them that turned out to be lies. You can't fault people for that.

Hey Thomez, who lied? Did bush lie?

:confused:



Vietnam was totally different, I agree. The communist world was a threat to the United States. Iraq has never been.

Iraq is not the threat but the Islamic freaks that live and fight there and all over the world are the threat and that is who we are figthing, it just so happens that Iraq is wherer the war is. thank god its there not here. lets stop it there before it spreads to here.

[DillonTMNT]

Originally posted by Rausch Creek
And I have no idea how you can compare killing terrorists WHO ARE GUILTY OF MURDER to the killing of seven million innocent Jews who were guilty of nothing. That is pretty twisted.

Its easy to compare. They are both taking pleasure out of the torture and death out of another human person. While death should be imposed on them it should not be something like you said you wished you could do now. When you do this you become as worse if not more worse than the terrorist...you also become a hypocrite because you say you seek justice in this but in reality when you torture them you become a terrorist like them..




-Dillon

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by DillonTMNT
Its easy to compare. They are both taking pleasure out of the torture and death out of another human person. While death should be imposed on them it should not be something like you said you wished you could do now. When you do this you become as worse if not more worse than the terrorist...you also become a hypocrite because you say you seek justice in this but in reality when you torture them you become a terrorist like them..
-Dillon


NO, it's called an eye for an eye. Ever heard of that saying? The Jews were not captured and systematically executed by the Nazi's because they were out committing acts of aggression towards them. It was called genocide.

And for everyone saying that this administration has lied to the American people, give me a break. What administration HASN'T lied to the American people? Things have been kept from the people forever, and probably always will be. I, for one, happen to think that there are some things that I do not need to know. I have voted to put our countries leaders into office, and I have faith that they will, for the most part, do what's in the best interests of the people. That's called democracy.

[DillonTMNT]

Originally posted by Bad Habit
NO, it's called an eye for an eye. Ever heard of that saying? The Jews were not captured and systematically executed by the Nazi's because they were out committing acts of aggression towards them. It was called genocide.

And for everyone saying that this administration has lied to the American people, give me a break. What administration HASN'T lied to the American people? Things have been kept from the people forever, and probably always will be. I, for one, happen to think that there are some things that I do not need to know. I have voted to put our countries leaders into office, and I have faith that they will, for the most part, do what's in the best interests of the people. That's called democracy.


"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind."

--Mahatma Gandhi




-Dillon

[Rausch Creek]

Originally posted by DillonTMNT
Its easy to compare. They are both taking pleasure out of the torture and death out of another human person. While death should be imposed on them it should not be something like you said you wished you could do now. When you do this you become as worse if not more worse than the terrorist...you also become a hypocrite because you say you seek justice in this but in reality when you torture them you become a terrorist like them..




-Dillon

How is that taking pleasure out of the death and torture of another Human? I did not say anything about pleasure. I'm also trying to figure out how a firing squad is considered torture? It is still used when giving a death sentance in Idaho and Utah.

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by DillonTMNT
"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind."

--Mahatma Gandhi




-Dillon


Ok, so let's say that a "terrorist" wrapped in explosives is about to detonate himself in a defiant act. What do you do? Put him down, or give him a hug?

[DillonTMNT]

Originally posted by Rausch Creek
How is that taking pleasure out of the death and torture of another Human? I did not say anything about pleasure. I'm also trying to figure out how a firing squad is considered torture? It is still used when giving a death sentance in Idaho and Utah.


torture can be either physical or mental. Mental torture is worse. I would saying killing somthing like a pig in front of them and covering the bullets in the blood that they know the terrorists are pretty much scared of. taunting them witht he blood and carcass of the swain iss a form of mind torture in my book.




-Dillon

[DillonTMNT]

Originally posted by Bad Habit
Ok, so let's say that a "terrorist" wrapped in explosives is about to detonate himself in a defiant act. What do you do? Put him down, or give him a hug?


I am not denying the fact that a terrrorist should be killed. I think the message I am trying to get through to yall is about the torture of them and how it is wrong. If a guy ran at me with bombs of course I would put him down cause in reality self-preservation is number one in anyones head in a instance of certin death.




-Dillon

[Guy400]

I support our actions in Iraq 100%. Anyone who believes that Saddam didn't have WMD's has their head in the sand (no pun intended). It's quite shocking that this story didn't make it into our liberal American news media (at least not with any substantial headlines) but Jordan just killed three terrorists planning an attack on the U.S. Embassy in Jordan and 3 vehicles were found packed with explosives and guess what else? Chemical weapons. Jordan estimates that if these bombs would've gone off than the estimated death toll would've been around 22,000 people and wrecked buildings up to 1/2 mile away. The three terrorists planning to use these chemical weapons were Syrian. Didn't our satellites pick up truck after truck being driven into Syria and our intelligence agencies were convinced that the trucks were filled with WMD's and their agents. What do you honestly think Saddam was driving into Syria days before we invaded? Those trucks certainly weren't filled with cotton candy for all the good little boys and girls in Syria.

I don't get pleasure out of our troops being there and I don't get any pleasure about hearing of innocent people's deaths over there but I understand that when you're in a war that there's going to be casualties on both sides. Comparatively speaking, our casualty rate in Iraq is shockingly low. Our troops are being killed in little onezy-twozy numbers. While every coalition troop death is a tragedy, it's certainly better than losing 2000 troops a day like we did in WWII and Vietnam.

No matter what the circumstances that would've brought Bush into Iraq some liberals would fault him. That's just par for the course.

People can subscribe to the pansy Gandhi theories of "an eye for an eye leaves the world blind" crap but it's about time we do something. Terrorism has been an ever growing threat for over 20 years now and nobody has chosen to deal with it. Some presidents have ignored it, some have appeased the terrorists, others have lobbed 2 missiles into an empty tent in the desert and claimed they've been combatting terrorism but in the end it's the current Bush that's chosen to actually do something. It's time we start kicking some teeth in and letting these terrorists know we're done messing around with them. It's funny how as soon as Bush dealt with Afghanistan and Iraq that suddenly Libya admits to a WMD program and turns themselves over to the US, Pakistan begins allowing inspections of their nuclear plants, North Korea starts the saber-rattling and Saudi Arabia has a puddle of piss around their feet. These countires that have gotten away with these illegal weapons programs now know that when Bush says knock it off he actually means it and has the wherewithall to do something about it.

I could talk for hours longer but I'll quit there.

[Guy400]

And I have to add: Do you know what Gandhi got Europe? The Nazi invasion of Poland.

You can't reason with these people because they don't understand. All they know is swift and abrupt action.

[Bad Habit]

Well said Guy

[markeg192]

....and better to fight it in Baghdad than New York or L.A..

[MOFO]

Originally posted by DillonTMNT
Thats pretty twisted dude. Wanted to do that to another human being is pretty sadistic. Thats as bad as Nazi death camp tortures. Yes you couldnt get away with that now cause IT IS NOT RIGHT. I dont even know what to say to you.....




-Dillon



Funny you make this comment about the Nazi's and how horrible they were....but yet you are against what we have done in Iraq. I suggest you do some more research about Saddam... then YOU would be classifying him with the Nazi's.

[MOFO]

Guy... as usual I agree with ya 100%.... you have a better way with words than I do.

[knighttime]

Originally posted by MOFO
Funny you make this comment about the Nazi's and how horrible they were....but yet you are against what we have done in Iraq. I suggest you do some more research about Saddam... then YOU would be classifying him with the Nazi's.

yip :macho

quote from George Bush on 9/11

"we will win"



:bandit:

[Narly R]

Well i am learning a lot! I dont know enought to have a strong opinion in this, but I see what you guys are saying...

This is probably the most contriversal subject ever!:eek2: I see reporters almost get into fights just trying to discuss the topic.

[Max400]

If you really believe that President BUSH lied - - THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ AND HE TOOK US TO WAR SOLELY FOR HIS OIL BUDDIES -- then read this and, if you are the fair minded person that I believe you to be ... PASS IT ON TO YOUR ENTIRE E-MAIL LIST.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear.
We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [the USA], but what happens there matters a great deal
here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear,
chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S.
Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate,
air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to
the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin,
Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he
has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam
continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a
licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten
the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,)
and others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the
mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction
and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to
deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing
weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence
reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority
to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe
that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real
and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively
to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the
next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated
the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every
significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"

- Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that
Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons
stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has
also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members
.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare,
and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam
Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for
the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction
.. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real
..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

SO NOW THE DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED, THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HE TOOK US TO WAR FOR HIS OIL BUDDIES???

Boy! Talk about two tongued philosophy



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[thomez]

Find them.

[batgeek]

yup...i have yet to see ANY proof what-so-ever.

as i said before, go in full scale and take over the country...or get out. this half assed pu$$y footing around of setting up a government is BS...100% BS.

we pull out early, the extremists take over. we set up a government...it just takes a little longer for the extremists to take over(or even better, Iran or Saudi Arabia takes the country...talk about getting our nuts tied and pulled in our ********* LOL).

the entire Middle East is a f*cked up unstable political arena.

personally, we never sould have went over there. our war is with the Islamic extremists...but thanks to Slick Willy and cutting budgets of certain inteligence gathering entities and "special programs", we don't have the intel to wage that war...

thanks Bill.

[MOFO]

Speaking of terrorist bombings and the slick meister, whats the deal with those new Oklahoma City bombing tapes....I heard they show a 2nd guy with McVeigh....

[DillonTMNT]

Originally posted by MOFO
Funny you make this comment about the Nazi's and how horrible they were....but yet you are against what we have done in Iraq. I suggest you do some more research about Saddam... then YOU would be classifying him with the Nazi's.


Did you read anything I wrote? cause if you did you would notice that I agreed with getting him out of Iraq and since that was acomplished we should now leave the country and let them rebuild it......but I already said that and am not going to waste my time repeating it..





-Dillon

[zephead400ex]

Originally posted by Guy400
I support our actions in Iraq 100%. Anyone who believes that Saddam didn't have WMD's has their head in the sand (no pun intended). It's quite shocking that this story didn't make it into our liberal American news media (at least not with any substantial headlines) but Jordan just killed three terrorists planning an attack on the U.S. Embassy in Jordan and 3 vehicles were found packed with explosives and guess what else? Chemical weapons. Jordan estimates that if these bombs would've gone off than the estimated death toll would've been around 22,000 people and wrecked buildings up to 1/2 mile away. The three terrorists planning to use these chemical weapons were Syrian. Didn't our satellites pick up truck after truck being driven into Syria and our intelligence agencies were convinced that the trucks were filled with WMD's and their agents. What do you honestly think Saddam was driving into Syria days before we invaded? Those trucks certainly weren't filled with cotton candy for all the good little boys and girls in Syria.

I don't get pleasure out of our troops being there and I don't get any pleasure about hearing of innocent people's deaths over there but I understand that when you're in a war that there's going to be casualties on both sides. Comparatively speaking, our casualty rate in Iraq is shockingly low. Our troops are being killed in little onezy-twozy numbers. While every coalition troop death is a tragedy, it's certainly better than losing 2000 troops a day like we did in WWII and Vietnam.

No matter what the circumstances that would've brought Bush into Iraq some liberals would fault him. That's just par for the course.

People can subscribe to the pansy Gandhi theories of "an eye for an eye leaves the world blind" crap but it's about time we do something. Terrorism has been an ever growing threat for over 20 years now and nobody has chosen to deal with it. Some presidents have ignored it, some have appeased the terrorists, others have lobbed 2 missiles into an empty tent in the desert and claimed they've been combatting terrorism but in the end it's the current Bush that's chosen to actually do something. It's time we start kicking some teeth in and letting these terrorists know we're done messing around with them. It's funny how as soon as Bush dealt with Afghanistan and Iraq that suddenly Libya admits to a WMD program and turns themselves over to the US, Pakistan begins allowing inspections of their nuclear plants, North Korea starts the saber-rattling and Saudi Arabia has a puddle of piss around their feet. These countires that have gotten away with these illegal weapons programs now know that when Bush says knock it off he actually means it and has the wherewithall to do something about it.

I could talk for hours longer but I'll quit there.

I'll drink to that! You the man Guy, you the man! Your response was great. Bush 2004:macho

[toby400ex]

That country is so ++++++ up anyway, theyre killing themselves. There is a new bombing every day, i think we should just nuke em. But that would kill tons of innocent civilians and blah blah blah.:o

[Pappy]

Originally posted by DillonTMNT
I agreed with getting him out of Iraq and since that was acomplished we should now leave the country and let them rebuild it


see thats the problem and most americans just dont get it.

before i say what im gonna say be advised i dont see my self as predujeced.


the people over there in that region are friggon animals. they see torture and killing an everyday way of life. if the US pulled out the 3 main factions in iraq would all fight for control leaving iraq in a bloody civil war. these people have freedom staring them in the face and they are too hung up on what religion should rule the country. religious zealots cant be controlled. they need to be killed. as long as thier "holy" men preach war and "fatwaa" there will be no peace. they claim the infidels want to rule them when you know damn well its not the case. if we wanted to rule them they would all be in 2 places right now.....dead or dying.


and our own media who doesnt have anything else better to do spends its day filling the worlds eyes and ears with BS. they dont show the coalitions efforts to get schools open...hospitals running effectively. they show the last hold outs blowing stuff up...or pictures of civilians killed in crossfire. i think the friggon media does more to keep the world pissed off about the USA then anything we have ever done to get someone mad at us.

they are just damn lucky imnot running things. id go to the iraqis and tell them straight out. "You have 1 week to turn in the weapons, cease all hostilities and begin working with us to make this country safe and get it on track". once that deadline passed there wouldnt be anymore small attacks. id roll thru every house, every street and thru every hole in the ground and KILL anyone that dared raise a hand in anger against my forces.

there is one way to fight....and thats with extreme and maximum violence.

and i wouldnt stop at Iraq. Iran would be next along with saudia arabia (who IMO is a snake in the grass)

[zephead400ex]

Damn straight! The Saudi's are bunch of back stabbing rag heads that are just as much of a threat as Iran!!! ]

[Pappy]

lets not forget pakistan who is only helping the US because they know if they dont they would be next and it also bought them some leverage dealing with turkey. i say we waste the whole damn area

[zephead400ex]

Originally posted by Pappy
lets not forget pakistan who is only helping the US because they know if they dont they would be next and it also bought them some leverage dealing with turkey. i say we waste the whole damn area

At least they are helping us, especially with the Al-Qaeda, so we are told. I wonder if they are harboring Bin Laden?

Pappy I agree with you 100% about the US media. It's all a bunch of bs. Fox News goes extreme with pro-US. MSNBC does nothing but critize everything the Bush administration does. It's all games, ridiculous games at that.

[Pappy]

pakistan is no different then any other middle eastern country.

they do have a govenment but it only controls a relativley small portion of the population. vast regoins in pakistan (especially along the border of iraq) are controlled by tribes...and these traibes take no influence or direction from the goverment. they themselves are small governments with as much firepower as the legitimate government. they still fight amongst themselves etc. and they are PRO bin laden and id bet thats where he is hiding his sorry ***.

i doubt china or russia would do more then raise thier voices if we just started taking these people out. if i was bush id announce a new plan...take these scumbags to allah and then id drop my pants in front of the cameras and tell the rest of the world to kiss my ***.

it burns my rear end that this country was ATTACKED!!! and people seem to think its over. there will be more attacks...and more severe. as an american i want it dealt with and could careless what any other nation seems to think about it.

[spincr4hire]

Originally posted by Pappy
i say we waste the whole damn area

yep...get our troops out and nuke em

[DillonTMNT]

Originally posted by Pappy
see thats the problem and most americans just dont get it.

before i say what im gonna say be advised i dont see my self as predujeced.


the people over there in that region are friggon animals. they see torture and killing an everyday way of life. if the US pulled out the 3 main factions in iraq would all fight for control leaving iraq in a bloody civil war. these people have freedom staring them in the face and they are too hung up on what religion should rule the country. religious zealots cant be controlled. they need to be killed. as long as thier "holy" men preach war and "fatwaa" there will be no peace. they claim the infidels want to rule them when you know damn well its not the case. if we wanted to rule them they would all be in 2 places right now.....dead or dying.


and our own media who doesnt have anything else better to do spends its day filling the worlds eyes and ears with BS. they dont show the coalitions efforts to get schools open...hospitals running effectively. they show the last hold outs blowing stuff up...or pictures of civilians killed in crossfire. i think the friggon media does more to keep the world pissed off about the USA then anything we have ever done to get someone mad at us.

they are just damn lucky imnot running things. id go to the iraqis and tell them straight out. "You have 1 week to turn in the weapons, cease all hostilities and begin working with us to make this country safe and get it on track". once that deadline passed there wouldnt be anymore small attacks. id roll thru every house, every street and thru every hole in the ground and KILL anyone that dared raise a hand in anger against my forces.

there is one way to fight....and thats with extreme and maximum violence.

and i wouldnt stop at Iraq. Iran would be next along with saudia arabia (who IMO is a snake in the grass)



ya I understand that is a bareknuckle dog fight and if they fight dirty we have to in order to keep order. The Native Americans did it in the old days to the Yanks. I guess I wished it didnt have to come to that. I basically dont listen to the news and what they have to say since they are censored by the power that be.

About Saudia Arabia...my uncle just left there for 4 months. He does inspections on oil refineries that are closeing. I am very petrified about him getting hurt over there. If every country was a democracy then there wouldnt be as much terrorism. I guess that is what we are trying to do in the middle east.

We are going to have some problems with North Korea though....




-Dillon

[Pappy]

china is the trump card with north korea. china has been slowly coming about and they wont revert back to being a closed nation. they have tasted the money the rest of the world has and they want thier share. if north korea gets cocky the us will do the diplomatic thing but IMO china will be the one to work them over. north korea is kind of like a step child of china so it should be their b!tch slap not ours.


saudia arabia is flat nutty. alot of money that funded terrorism was found to have orginated or been funneled thru saudi businesses. now whats scary is that they are finding out just how many american business were used as fronts to generate money for terrorism. in maryland and northern virginia they ahve found like 15 housing sub divisions that were built by a company that is accused of using proceeds to fund known terrorists. this terrorism chit has been slowy growing all over the world and it wont be easy digging them all out.

[redroost85]

I'm for the war 100%, but I can't wait for my friends in the service to come home....I miss those guys.:(

My friends have sacrificed much and I love them for it. I have never been prouder of those guys....they can't wait to come home and ride in the good ole USA!:muscle:

[zephead400ex]

Originally posted by Pappy
china is the trump card with north korea. china has been slowly coming about and they wont revert back to being a closed nation. they have tasted the money the rest of the world has and they want thier share. if north korea gets cocky the us will do the diplomatic thing but IMO china will be the one to work them over. north korea is kind of like a step child of china so it should be their b!tch slap not ours.


saudia arabia is flat nutty. alot of money that funded terrorism was found to have orginated or been funneled thru saudi businesses. now whats scary is that they are finding out just how many american business were used as fronts to generate money for terrorism. in maryland and northern virginia they ahve found like 15 housing sub divisions that were built by a company that is accused of using proceeds to fund known terrorists. this terrorism chit has been slowy growing all over the world and it wont be easy digging them all out.

Hey Pappy, what ever came of the accusations? I have heard that there is a substance in pop/soda that is called gum Arabic. which prevents particles setteling to the bottom of the can. Bin laden owns part of the company, Gum Arabic Company, that produces this gum. So everytime we buy/drink/sell pop we are funding the terrorist.

Has anyone else heard of this? Is it true? I do not drink pop so I am good, but everyone else I know does.

[Pappy]

tracking terrorists will prove as hard as tracking down the mafia. by spreading out income sources you better your chances of the flow of money continuing to flow.

i wouldnt worry too much about what company is involved, most dont even know they are involved.

im sure one day we will read that bin laden was taken out by a cruise missle strike or maybe, just maybe we can get him alive. it will do little good because he will be martered in his death and it will spawn more fundamentalist of the jihad movement.

i heard the other day that projected time tables for actually getting terrorism under control would be 20 years. thats nutz. but look at ireland and how long the internal struggle lasted there.

[Merriman]

Originally posted by Pappy
china is the trump card with north korea. china has been slowly coming about and they wont revert back to being a closed nation. they have tasted the money the rest of the world has and they want thier share. if north korea gets cocky the us will do the diplomatic thing but IMO china will be the one to work them over. north korea is kind of like a step child of china so it should be their b!tch slap not ours.

Speaking of China, that 'could' be another reason why we re in Iraq......China has tasted the $$$ and want more, lots more. Not to mention the fact that they still are not fond of us and our democracy. While China is just starting to industrialize, they will need massive amounts of oil. If they were to industrialize to our standards, no one would be able to control what they do. That is just plain scary. If we control the oil flow, then we can control them. They are the only major threat to end our civilization and I'd rather take steps now to ensure our way of life than learn chinese......:huh