HRC Jetting Problem?

[Rocket4U]

I just got my HRC kit after waiting 6 weeks and the dealer told me it would be another 3 weeks before he could install it, so I decided to do it myself. The installation went pretty well, but the only way I could start the machine was to pull it with another 4-wheeler. The problem is the machine will not idle (which is why it won't kick start). It dies as soon as you completely let off the throttle. It runs strong up and down the street with no poping or valve train noise, but when you stop and let off the throttle it dies and won't start without being pulled. Also, I put the stock air box cover on and it started by kicking it and idled for a few seconds then died and wouldn't start again. I'm thinking jetting, but any ideas?

Here's what I'm running:

5,000 ft elevation
HRC air box and end cap mods
180 main
HRC needle in 3rd position
stock pilot
fuel screw 2.5 turns out.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

[kbass24emtp]

Did you turn the fuel screw out? It should be 1 3/4 turns out. Also did you check the clearance on the decompression cam? I would start by putting the fuel screw back to the factory location and you should have a 185 main jet that came with the kit, and check all the clearances on the cam.

[Rocket4U]

Thanks Kbass, I'll check those but I think may have it figured out.

I changed the oil after the last ride and had filled it to the H mark. I noticed last night before I went to bed that the oil was now completely covering the window, and was darker than what I had put in. Now I know it was at the H mark before I pull started it, and I know these things don't manufacture oil, so what else could be in there? The only thing I can think of is gas. My guess is that when I put in the new main jet some how I screwed up the float and it was flooding the engine, so it wouldn't start. Pull starting it burned enought fuel that it would start, but when I let off the throttle it flood again. The oil was darker because it acted as a solvent, and disolved some carbon and deposits in the engine (glad I didn't run it for very long). Does this make sense to anyone else?

My next action is to check the float, change the oil and try to start it again.

[kssandduner]

Just out of curiosity, what does your spark plug look like?

Joe

[roughrider01]

Well when i first changed my oil, after adding the filter i filled up the site glass to the H mark. Ran it for a few minutes and it was bone dry in the window, so i filled it up to the H mark again. After riding it around for about an hour then stopping it for about 5 minutes, it filled up the whole window (too much).

Now when i change the oil, i fill it up so it just covers the whole window. I do not need to add oil anymore after starting it up for the first time and its perfect, just a tad below H.

Maybe you just added to much oil like i did the first time.

[Z-135]

You should fill it up to the H mack and run it. Then let it sit for two min and check it again. It holds less then a quart! How much did you put in?

[Rocket4U]

Kssandduner, the plug was black.

Roughrider and Z-135, I filled the oil up to the H mark with about 24 ounces, then ran it for a few minutes and let it sit. It was then a little below H mark, so I topped it off to the H mark (1 or 2 ounces). Before I pull started it it had sat for 5 days and was still at the H mark.

[kgbg]

Did you get it figured out? I doubt it had anything to do with oil level.
Did you change the needle?
Did you adjust the cam decompressor?
Let me know if you have any more problems, I can help you fix it...I live in SLC.
click here for 450R specific info, including jetting (http://www.hondars.com/index.php?act=idx)

[2004TRX450R]

Your cam timeing may be off. Double check that. Also check the fuel screw setting. Sounds like it is to lean if it ran better with the stock air box lid on. Try screwing the fuel screw out .5-1 turn.

[Hammer trx450r]

when i did my cam mod i had to turn idle up alot( black knob) i think idle is supposed to be at 1600 rpm

[Rocket4U]

Got if figured out. I'm more than a little embarrassed to say that I forgot to reset the cam chain tensioner, and it was putting too much pressure on the cam chain. That's why it wouldn't kick start or idle. The oil level had nothing to do with it. I must have put a couple ounces too much in.

Thanks for all the input.

[Manny55]

you should have a 185 main jet that came with the kit

He lives at 5000 elevation though so a 180 would make since.


I'm more than a little embarrassed to say that I fogot to reset the cam chain tensioner

Haha, congrats man! Have fun with the HRC kit.

[snow4fun]

kgbg,

I saw that you live in SLC. I am just up the road in Layton and had some questions on jetting, etc. I just had the HRC kit installed and they left the 185 Main in. They also installed the new HRC endcap with the spark arrestor.
1. If I am riding at the dunes shouldn't I just put the stock end cap back on and have no spark arrestor? (Dealer said something about back pressure and I was wondering if one of the spark arrestors is needed or if I should just run it wide open with stock endcap?)
2. Initially when I bought the TRX450R, they had jetted it with a 112 main. (They said they take stock jet 118 multiplied by .95 for our elevation - 112) If I do the same math for the HRC kit, it would be 185 X .95 = 175.75 - I was going to try a 178 or 180)
3. I am running stock air cleaner and stock pipe for now with all HRC components - currently my HRC exhaust end cap had real dark black soot and appears to be rich with the 185. Would you try the 178 or 180 main.
4. Also I have been seeing some posts about the air screw adj. and some are running around 1 3/4 or 2 turns out. What do you suggest for our elevation of about 5,000 feet. 95% of my riding will be a Jerico or St. Anthony with are both around 5,000 feet.
5. It also appears they did install the new needle and its in the 3rd position. Have you changed that at all for our elevation and seen any gains.
5. Any other suggestions would be great.

P.S. I went riding with 5 friends up to St. Anthony this past Friday and the sand was very wet under the surface. I was the only 4 stroke out of my group that was able to get out of Chokecherry Hill. Raptors (Piped), DS650 (Ron Woods Stage 1 Kit), etc - My buddies banshee was faster but I think mine will do a little better when jetted right.

Thanks Scott

[kgbg]

Hello Snow4Fun,
I have a 182, with no lid, K&N, and a LRD pipe.
I would suggest a 178 for you, maybe a 180. I ran a 185 the first time out, same as you minus lid and with a K&N. It was a hair rich, but I wanted to break it in that way.
The spark arrested cap on the HRC has a better flow then the stock end cap without sparky. I would leave it (HRC).
I have not touched the air/fuel screw, it has no hesitations or stumbles anywhere, so I left it alone.
I am running the HRC needle in the middle position.
As far as other suggestions, I would ditch the lid on the air box, and get a K&N with an outerwear. Then go up to a 182.
What do you weigh?
What size tire and how many paddles are you running? Never mind, I am editing this now, I just read your sig.
What do you like to do when riding?
I will suggest a some gearing, I have tried everything.
Let me know, I am going riding next (5/1) weekend, to Little Saraha, we could hook up.

[snow4fun]

Kgbg,
Thanks for the info. I am not sure if I will be at Little Sahara or Knolls this weekend. This TRX450R is actually my wife's bike and I am just trying to get it setup so if she doesn't go I can enjoy riding it as well. She is only about 110 lbs and I am about 175 lbs.
I am currently running 13/38 on gearing and like it a lot better than stock.
Did you try your HRC without the LRD? If so how much difference is there with the pipe? I noticed that Manny55 also is running the LRD pipe. Do you have any idea which is best between LRD, HMF, and Sparks? Have you raced any of these others for a comparison? If you have found gearing you like better than 13/38, let me know.
P.S. - My dealership is really pushing the UNI filter over the K&N and I have seen some posts that recommend UNI or Sparks over the K&N any ideas? What did you do with your crankcase vent hose once you installed the K&N?
If I end up at Jerico, do you usually camp at Sand Mountain? What kind of rig will you be in? Thanks for all the help.
Scott

[kgbg]

Scott,
I like K&N, but its a personal choice. I run an outerwear.
You can pull the crankcase vent hose out from the box, not all the way, jsut enough to clear the filter. Its glued, but you can get ti to slide out a bit.
I bet she would be pretty happy with a 14/39. Thats what I ended up with. I thought the 13/38 was to low. I weigh 225. I run a 7 paddle hauler, same size as you.
On the pipe. Again I think its a personal preference. I like LRD, they have been good to me in the past. I don't think there is a whole lot of difference between those three. Do you think one looks better? The only other 450R I have raced with a pipe was Duncan pipe, he had no HRC kit and I beat him pretty good.
When I go to Little Saraha, I always park a the far right loop (pullin in) at the face. I have a white 1986 chevy crew cab 4x4. My wife rides a white z. I might not be going this weekend. We will see. We are having the Utah ATV asociation rodeo on May 15th out at Knolls. Think about it. Its goign to be a blast. Many events and contests.
Kam