Is a 440 Any Better Than a 416

[04'400ex'er]

I Hear about all these people that are getting 416 kit's for their ex'es, or already have. It seems to me that you would be better off just to get a 440 kit. Do you have to buy a new sleave for the 416, or do you bore the stock sleave? Do you have to buy a complete new sleave for the 440 kit? Does the 440 kit just completely outpower the 416 or is there a reason all these people buy 416 kits i dont know about?

[SHANE03EX]

The 416 does not require a new sleeve, you can bore the stock sleeve. The 440 dose require a new sleeve so the kit cost more, and also some people say the 416 runs cooler and is more reliable, but that is just people opinions. As for power the 440 does make more power but the 416 is still a step up from 400 plus you get a higher compression piston.

[EXDUNER127]

Like shane said plus a 440 can be out runned by a 416. There is the difference between a basic 440 and a true 440. A basic 440 is the big bore kit, which is new sleeve, high comp. piston, and a cam. and is over bored to a .120....that will give you a 440 kit, but to be a true 440 you need to add the carb, port work valve job, heavy duty rod, timing chain, harden rockers, etc. the works.
my friend has a true 440 and eats raptors for breakfast, i have only seen maybe one or two raptors beat him. And these are 686's and stuff. Another friend of mine has the 416 with all the works and he beats 440 all the time, but they are not true 440's. that is the main difference, beside the the bore. it all depends on what you use to compliment the 440.

If you were to choose to go the basic way for now, just go with the 416, because it will leave you room to build!

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by EXDUNER127
Like shane said plus a 440 can be out runned by a 416. There is the difference between a basic 440 and a true 440. A basic 440 is the big bore kit, which is new sleeve, high comp. piston, and a cam. and is over bored to a .120....that will give you a 440 kit, but to be a true 440 you need to add the carb, port work valve job, heavy duty rod, timing chain, harden rockers, etc. the works.
my friend has a true 440 and eats raptors for breakfast, i have only seen maybe one or two raptors beat him. And these are 686's and stuff. Another friend of mine has the 416 with all the works and he beats 440 all the time, but they are not true 440's. that is the main difference, beside the the bore. it all depends on what you use to compliment the 440.

If you were to choose to go the basic way for now, just go with the 416, because it will leave you room to build!

i think the 426 is bored .120 over, not the 440.

[BIGRED400]

The bore is .080 over, Most machines shops are around $40 to bore, the key is finding a good one that does good work, also I took in my head , he checked it out for being square and true, it was out a little and he surfaced it back to square, makes a big diffrence when the two meet with gaskets, a ok fit is made best doing this, Good Luck with whatever you go with, Most 440's are'nt true to their advertised compression ratio .

[RAPTORAZ]

Originally posted by EXDUNER127

my friend has a true 440 and eats raptors for breakfast, i have only seen maybe one or two raptors beat him. And these are 686's and stuff.


Not trying to start a flame war here, but your friend has obviously being racing some very poorly tuned Raptor's. My Rappy dynoed in at 45 RWHP back when it was piped/jetted/airboxed only. It takes a VERY built EX to make that RWHP #. My 416 only dyno's at 33.5 RWHP.

Back then my buddies 440 with a 39mm FCR, a Web 469? cam, ported/polished head, and Spark's X6 pipe was barely able to beat my Rappy. And my 416 was absolutely no match for it.

My advise would be to go 416 and spend the saved money, over a 440, on making it breathe as well as possible.

[Quadzilla]

Originally posted by RAPTORAZ
Not trying to start a flame war here, but your friend has obviously being racing some very poorly tuned Raptor's. My Rappy dynoed in at 45 RWHP back when it was piped/jetted/airboxed only. It takes a VERY built EX to make that RWHP #. My 416 only dyno's at 33.5 RWHP.

Back then my buddies 440 with a 39mm FCR, a Web 469? cam, ported/polished head, and Spark's X6 pipe was barely able to beat my Rappy. And my 416 was absolutely no match for it.

My advise would be to go 416 and spend the saved money, over a 440, on making it breathe as well as possible.

Something is not right with your 416 dude. Most are making 37-42 hp (depending on compression, cam, exhaust, carb, etc). Your sounds too low...

[quadmx7]

a fully built 440ex motor should put out hp numbers in the low to mid 40's right? the CT hi-output kit which is what im am currently in the proccess of gettin is claimed mid 40's hp so when i get my engine back i am going to try and get it on the dyno. i know a guy who had a 440 that in the 300ft drag it ran something like 5.3sec or something close to that.

[nakomis0]

If you have a decently built 440 you will get 40hp rw.

You have to have an extremely well built 440 to get a 45hp number.

there also lil tricks here and there that will squeek a few ponies. A very well lubed and taken care of axle carrier is one.

For an example my 440 with all the trimmings except stroked and there is 1 web cam slightly more agressive than mine and it put out a 43hp.

[EXDUNER127]

Not trying to start a flame war here, but your friend has obviously being racing some very poorly tuned Raptor's. My Rappy dynoed in at 45 RWHP back when it was piped/jetted/airboxed only. It takes a VERY built EX to make that RWHP #. My 416 only dyno's at 33.5 RWHP.

Dude your bike wasnt built right...:rolleyes: My friends bike has 12:5.1 custom piston 440, Web cam 479 grind, race port & polish, o/s valves w/ shortened valve guides, valve spring kit, hardened rockers, CRF450 cam chain, 41FCR carb, lightened Flywheel, new clutch, msd ignition, K&N filter, biggun exhaust, and etc.
he has never lost to a z400, kfx400, dale, or any other 400EX, he just recently beat a 465 stroker up oldsmobile. He gets that thing dialed in perfect. He dynoed before the msd and 41fcr at 46hp.:eek2: honestly! are engine builder is taking out sparks at the next 4 stroke wars:devil: Kenz cycle Tech in AZ...

[EXDUNER127]

Hey Raptoraz, i just noticed you live in AZ, what is your name , and did you get your bike built at Kenz too? You might know who i am talking about!

[RAPTORAZ]

Originally posted by EXDUNER127
Hey Raptoraz, i just noticed you live in AZ, what is your name , and did you get your bike built at Kenz too? You might know who i am talking about!

Yes, Kenz built the motor for my Raptor.

Sounds like your buddy is Speeddmn(Todd). If that's the case, it's not that his bike is all that nasty. It's that Todd is an excellent rider, is lighter than most, and spends the extra time to make sure his bike has the right gearing for pulling Olds. I've raced him numerous times, and he slaughters me through the whoops. Which is where you get all the momentum for pulling Olds hill. Most of his wins at Olds are due to his riding ability(being able to keep the throttle pinned through the whoops) and not his bikes RWHP. When the terrain is rough, rider ability makes more of a difference than power.

[EXDUNER127]

Raptoraz...

Yah i am talking about speeddmn, you have got to admit his bike is fast, no matter if he got you over the whoops or the hill, it is still a win:devil: he weighs a good 185, that is not very light, but hedoes no how haul arse through those whoops!:eek2:

Did you watch him race gilbert(howardstern)'s rappy at 4 stroke wars against sparks, that was a good race.

[RAPTORAZ]

Originally posted by EXDUNER127
Raptoraz...

Yah i am talking about speeddmn, you have got to admit his bike is fast, no matter if he got you over the whoops or the hill, it is still a win:devil: he weighs a good 185, that is not very light, but hedoes no how haul arse through those whoops!:eek2:

Did you watch him race gilbert(howardstern)'s rappy at 4 stroke wars against sparks, that was a good race.

I never said Speed's bike was slow. I said Speed's riding ability benefits him against other machines with more horsepower. Speed's bike is definately fast. It's just not as fast as some of the bikes he's beaten.

Yes, I did see Speed race Howard's Rappy. In fact I raced him on Howard's Rappy. With a 6 RWHP and 75lb weight advantage, I was easy pickens for him. :D

[R3Concepts]

This whole thread just goes to show that bigger isnt always better. My homebuilt 426ex out ran a 720 raptor that was built by Dean at southwest motorsports in Phoenix. Not once did I out run it but 5 times in a row, by 6-8 bike lenghts up Olds. Most people that know how to build motors know when its going into overkill stage. Besides Sparks waxed the four stroke wars with 416s and a 690 raptor.

[RAPTORAZ]

Assuming the two engines being compared have the same volumetric efficiency, and the traction conditions are ideal, then bigger is always better.

Racing up Olds hill is not all about who has the most RWHP. Weight, gearing, and paddle count play a major role in shooting the hill. Sparks wins FSW every year by simply being better prepared than anyone else. Their bikes are as light as possible(no battery's or starter's). And they do hundreds of radared test runs on every bike with numerous paddle counts and gearing.

[R3Concepts]

Sparks wins becuase hes the best 4 stroke builder in the nation. Say what you want we all know its true. I agree that you can have all the hp in the world but if you can get it to the ground or you cant get your fat ***(not you personally but in general) through the whoops then it dont mean jack. But I go to the dunes to carve the bowls not race up and down the hill all day, but I do enjoy when a raptor pulls up to my mx ready 426 and smiles at me, and on the way back down I give my smile back to the raptor rider..... You Just Got Waxed By A 426ex, hows it feel?


#469 426ex