250r vs 400ex racing

[Knips178]

here's the deal, I have a chance to trade my newly rebuilt 440ex for a very nice 265r. I want to mx race this year so which is going to be better for mx? I know that's a loaded question, so what I can tell you is it will be a fair deal, so i'm not worried about getting screwed, i'm just wondering which is better for racing.

The 4 stroke classes usually have a full field and the 2 strokes don't so i'm wondering if it's worth it going to a class that is being deminished by the new 4 strokes. I know top pros love the 250r chassis, but will a 265r compare to my 440 high comp race setup?

in other words, should i make the trade with everything being equal?

[Florida400EX]

It depends, do you like 4 stroke or 2 stroke power better? Some people prefer a 2 over a 4 and vise versa. On bikes i prefer 2 and on quads 4. I suggest you try it out and see how you like it compared to your 440.

[03400EX_Nacs]

if the R is decked with all the goodies (axle, pipe, wheels, tires, nerf bars etc) the i would go with it over the 440 but still you have to think if you like that way the power is on a 2 stroke

[Knips178]

Well, I am going to move my full long travel suspension and rear elka shock and lsr +4 axle over to the 250r. So what I'm wondering is motor vs motor, in your oppinions is the 250r better than a 400ex for mx?

[Florida400EX]

personally, I'd take the R over the EX. It's about what type of power you like.

[Knips178]

everyone keeps saying the power difference, what does that mean? does the 250r not pull hard off the line or what?
I'm looking for a full out mx quad, and I always see top pros run 250r's so i assume that they must have the grunt and midrange punch to move around the mx track. But, my 440 has super lowend grunt! Will a built 250r just destroy a built 400ex?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Knips178
Well, I am going to move my rear elka shock

that aint gonna work on a R. and if you have equal riders the built 400 will stay right with the 265R.

the main thing I got from your post is the little tidbit about the class sizes. sounds like you are looking for an easy way to race.

[Knips178]

Well, I have everything I need suspension wise to race, but I have always really liked the 250r's stance and low center of gravity. But I love my 440 torque. I'm wondering if I can build a 265r into a mx ready machine with little money spent on motor mods, and will the end result be better than a 38hp 440?

[Pappy]

its really going to come down to what type of power you prefer.

in order to get the 265 into the ball park with a built 440 its going to take a powervalve and port work. (i dont mean HP numbers but the same feel you have with the 440 engine)

[Towlieee]

2 strokes dont get power tell extremly high rpm..

Floor it in a 2stroke at 5,000rpm and theres almost no power (depends on the engine)

then again a 4 stroke usually pulls all the way through the rpm..

2 strokes have a short powerband, but it pulls hella hard..

I was riding my friends banshee last saturday, The only way to make it pull harder then my friends 300ex was to take it WAY into the rpm, where I thought I was gonna blow it.. didn't want the owner to think I was driving it hard so i pudded around at low rpm =\

From what my friend told me, his 250r dosne't hit powerband tell around 8k rpm.. yet my buddys 300ex tops out at 8.7k.. reliability is another concern with this...

[Knips178]

I've ridden a piped banshee before, but wasn't very impressed with it. I take it a 250r will be similar?

[Towlieee]

Originally posted by Knips178
I've ridden a piped banshee before, but wasn't very impressed with it. I take it a 250r will be similar?

where the powers at yes it will be similar..

I personally hate 2 strokes.. my friends blaster hangs right next to my buddys 300ex when he drives it, but when i ride his blaster I can't hang with ****.. only because im not taking it up in the 10krpm's

personal preference.. the guy with the blaster loves 2 strokes, however i'd rather ride the 300ex any day over it

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Knips178
I've ridden a piped banshee before, but wasn't very impressed with it. I take it a 250r will be similar?

alot of how and when the R power comes on will be dictated by compression and port work. ive riden R's that felt very strong down low and mid but were weak on top. then ive climbed on MX prepped R's and yes, you have to ride the piss out of them to keep them on the pipe.

if youve never riden a 2 stroke on the mx track id say your not gonna like it, but ive been wrong before

[Knips178]

I guess it's that seat of the pants thing. Where a 250r can have 45hp and feel the same as a 440ex with 38hp?

[Towlieee]

Originally posted by Knips178
I guess it's that seat of the pants thing. Where a 250r can have 45hp and feel the same as a 440ex with 38hp?

well the 250r's power is gonna be a short burst, whereas the 440ex is gonna have alot more hp throughout the rpm

[Knips178]

So riding a 250r is all about staying in the powerband, whether it's 9000 or 5000 rpm, but as soon as you come out of that band the motor is nothing special?

[Towlieee]

Originally posted by Knips178
So riding a 250r is all about staying in the powerband, whether it's 9000 or 5000 rpm, but as soon as you come out of that band the motor is nothing special?

from my knowledge and the 2 strokes i rode

blaster
250r 3 wheeler
banshee

yes thats exactly the case

[Knips178]

alright, well tonight I ride a 265r and see if it's worth trading my 440ex for.

[03400EX_Nacs]

well tells us what happens

[C41Xracer]

This is actually a tough one..............I would say stick to the 440 and this is coming from a guy that has a prepped mx 250r.The 440 wont wear you out as fast as the 2 stroke. You have to ride the 2 stroke with alot more thought, clutching gets to be a pain.My quad is a bottom end motor and rides like a four stroke though.I think 2 strokes are a dying breed and thats why im building a crf motored quad.

Charlie

[Knips178]

I ended up getting a 250r, and for anyone thinking about making a similar trade here's my advise. 2-Stroke power is very different from the 4 strokes! I traded my completely tricked out 440ex for a piped, carb, mx ported 250r and the difference in power charachteristics is night and day.

1. on the 440 i could blip the throttle in 3rd gear and the front end would come right up into a wheelie.
on the 250r i have to dump the clutch in first to pop a wheelie.

2. in a straight line drag race on concrete the 440 would wheelie and was tough to keep the power under control.
the 250r just takes off so you can usually beat 4 strokes off the line.

3. even with long travel suspension and lowered riding height with top of the line elka's on the 440, the 250r with works shocks sits lower and feels much better turning and jumping.

4. the brakes on the 250r were night and day better due to the lighter weight and lower stance. Nose wheelies are nothing to do on the 250r. these brakes stop right now!

5. I'm finding out that it's much cheaper to make power on a 250r than on a 400ex. and much cheaper to fix! which is a huge plus for someone like me that just spent damn near 2k on fixing a 400ex motor!

But, in the end everyone has a choice to make when trading or buying a quad. In my personal experience, i'm glad i made the trade because it's like learning to ride a quad all over again. everything is different and new so it makes every ride more exciting. And that alone makes the trade worth while to me.

[Ryan]

Good choice! For MX, I would have definitly went with the 250r. I've ridden a built 250r and it was just amazing!

[Knips178]

it's going to take a while getting use to timing the powerband to the jump. Well, for that matter just staying in the powerband all the time while trying to navigate the track. I'm sure it's just a feel thing and after while you don't even think about it, but it's a blast learning!

Subnote, I drag raced a 450r yesterday and lost by 20yds over a 500yd drag. I raced him three times and each time i dragged differently (dumping the clutch, slipping it, reving high) and each time there was a noticeable difference in the launch. I could holeshot him, but he quickly caught up and passed me as I had to machine gun shift from 2nd to 6th.

Also, my 250r starts right up with the first kick, his 450r sometimes takes 10 kicks. I don't think the 450r starts all that great.

[Ryan]

One thing you will find yourself doing more often is clutching alot more. I did the same with my Blaster, and eventually got used to it.

Everytime I ride a 4-stroke now you'll never hear the rpm's go down. So used to a 2-stroke.


If you decide you want to get a more 4-stroke powerband for it, take a look at the powervalves. It will give you good power from bottom to top.

[Knips178]

yeah, i've been doing research on 250r motor mods, and the powervalve looks like something i would want to do for mx, but they're pricey. Do you just replace the cylinder, sleeve and piston or does a pv require more?

[diesel-mech]

The biggest trick to riding a 2-stroke is Knowing where the power is and how to get it instantly. MX tracks make it easy to learn, Stay in the pipe!(powerband) Your powerband will come in as soon as you get your rpm's up just alittle, and it last for quite a while, Don't be afraid of reving it cause you can't float a valve. If you need the power right now just "slip" the clutch quickly and you'll hit the pipe, Yes you will shift alot more on the 2 stroke.
You may pull out of a turn in 3rd gear on your 4-stroke but on a 2-stroke you will have to drop to 2nd slip the clutch quickly to get in the pipe and grab 3rd as soon as you hit the pipe. As for jumping the best trick I've learned is stay in the pipe all the way to the face of the jump, let off slightly then give it a quick goose as your leaving the ground. Now if its a big jump just get in the pipe and hold the throttle steady all the way through. Good news is you should be lighter with an R so jumping should be easier.
A 265cc 2-stroke should make more than 38 hp if it was built correctly and the jetting is right. Jetting is finiky for a decked out 2-stroke. I have an RM250 stock bore, ported, cut powervalve, carbon fiber reeds, hot rod connecting rod, 38mm carb, shaved flywheel, head work, FMF pipe ect... It was dynoed to find a performance problem. It made 51hp at 14000rpm, thats no joke!(after we found the carb was cracked and replaced it) But I'll have to rejet from day to day some times. It has alot of torque for a 2-stroke but not nearly the torque of a 4-stroke.
The power is going to feel different but its addictive! once you get the feel for it you'll love it. as for any 250r that you have to work to wheelie??? something is wrong with it! You should almost have to work to keep them on the ground, unless you are heavily weighting the front end or are very timid with the throttle.
My suggestion is if you aren't formiliar with 2-stroke power than take someone with you who is so you don't get hosed on the deal.

[300exQuadracer]

Originally posted by Knips178
I
1. on the 440 i could blip the throttle in 3rd gear and the front end would come right up into a wheelie.
on the 250r i have to dump the clutch in first to pop a wheelie.

4. the brakes on the 250r were night and day better due to the lighter weight and lower stance. Nose wheelies are nothing to do on the 250r. these brakes stop right now!

5. I'm finding out that it's much cheaper to make power on a 250r than on a 400ex. and much cheaper to fix! which is a huge plus for someone like me that just spent damn near 2k on fixing a 400ex motor!



# 1 i can sit on my handle bars in 3rd/4th gear and pull up a wheelie

#4 if you want even harder brakes yet get some braided brake lines if it dowent allready have them i noticed a huge difference in my r

#5 a 2 stroke you can definately build up a heck of a lot cheaper than a 4 stroke

no flames intended in any of that

[310Rduner]

It really shouldnt have problems wheeling, and the power shouldn't be that hard to find if its an mx port for low-mid. My bike is ported mid-top and I can find the power extremely easily with just downshifting and accelerating from there, or slipping the clutch and easing the throttle.Don't be scared to revv it! Try checking your jetting to see if you are running pretty rich and its just bogging. Check what gearing it has (Most mxers I hear use 12/38-39 and change for tracks; I dont mx though). On my R when I hit the gas the front end comes up regardless of how much I lean over the front end. In the sand I can dump the clutch in at half throttle, leaning forward with my waist at the bars ( I weigh like 220) and still wheely very hard.

[Knips178]

I have to work on the jetting, but you guys must have some serious power to just pop a wheelie in any gear with out reeeeeally leaning back! On a stock bore and stroke 250r i have lrd mx porting, lrd adjustable pipe and silencer, 38mm airstryker, 18" rear wheels and running 15/38 gears but can't pull a wheelie to save my life. The motor has about 4hrs on it since it was rebuilt and ported, so is it just still breaking in or should i be looking for a problem somewhere?

It just sounds like i should be expecting more power than i'm seeing by what you guys are saying with wheelie'ing being a problem.

i'm running a 180 main and don't know the pilot, but it's not blubbering on top like i would think it would if it was fat.

[diesel-mech]

Originally posted by Knips178
I have to work on the jetting, but you guys must have some serious power to just pop a wheelie in any gear with out reeeeeally leaning back! On a stock bore and stroke 250r i have lrd mx porting, lrd adjustable pipe and silencer, 38mm airstryker, 18" rear wheels and running 15/38 gears but can't pull a wheelie to save my life. The motor has about 4hrs on it since it was rebuilt and ported, so is it just still breaking in or should i be looking for a problem somewhere?

It just sounds like i should be expecting more power than i'm seeing by what you guys are saying with wheelie'ing being a problem.

i'm running a 180 main and don't know the pilot, but it's not blubbering on top like i would think it would if it was fat.

You really need to jet it!:eek2: You are way rich. I can't tell you exactly what main jet you need without checking the plug and such but my 250 has a 160 main jet in it. the 15 tooth front sprocket seems tall to me but I'm not real sure about that???

[Knips178]

are the keihn jets in a airstryker the same as any keihn 250r jet or do i have to order it from somewhere special?

[310Rduner]

I also agree with the 15 toothe front being way too tall. Only people I know running 15/38 have 350 motors. I ran my bike for the longest time with 13/39 stock gearing, and just purchased 14/38 gearing, and that is going to be broadening the power pretty significantly for my 310 motor with everything you can buy for it. I also think the 180 sounds little rich, just guessing. When I had my other pipe and stock carb I was running like a 160-165?

I believe all the jets are the same ( I have a mikuni carb now, so I'm not 100%)

[300exQuadracer]

i have 11,12,13,14 th front sprockets and 36,38,39 rear sprockets and i have changed and rode and changed and messed around ,and i think its all in personal proference but i rally like the 14/39 right now for mx but i like to go to the 13 or even 12 on tighter tracks for the umph outta the corners

[Knips178]

13/39 or 14/39 is good for mx, but what do you have done to your motor? Mine is stock bore and stroke so i don't know if i have enough power to be running higher gearing like 14/38 or if i should be running 13/38 for mx?

I also have local drags this saturday and think a 13/38 setup would be better for that. what say you?

[Chef]

15/38 is WAY too high on that 250cc motor. I run a 15/37 on my R, but its a 425 Powervalve. Granted, it still leaves blackmarks for 60-70 feet, and wheelys on demand in any gear just because of the horsepower, but I have never found the end of 6th gear. You should be down in the 13-14 countershaft range, atleast.

[Martin Blair]

Originally posted by Chef
15/38 is WAY too high on that 250cc motor. I run a 15/37 on my R, but its a 425 Powervalve. Granted, it still leaves blackmarks for 60-70 feet, and wheelys on demand in any gear just because of the horsepower, but I have never found the end of 6th gear. You should be down in the 13-14 countershaft range, atleast.

Chef your bike is a differnt story from his, your bike would kick the **** out of anything no matter what gearing.

I would run stock (13/39 i believe) for the motor you have and mx.

I thought it was a 265? If you want power but no pv get a bolt on 310 kit from esr, comes with cylender jug, piston, coll head and 2 domes for I think
950 get it ported for mx and run a low/mid dome, and get a TRX6 pipe ESR silencer to go with the porting.

haha i smoke 400ex's and 250r's lik their mini quads:blah: sumbody that thinks they can ride in south jersey please pm me to race cuz ill smoke ne1 on a track :macho

[Knips178]

What are you running that's so damn fast Reefer? I never even heard of a 425 powervalve before, i thought they went up to 350? Did you have to fab another cylinder to your case or what?

[310Rduner]

He bought it from PSI. Yes, you definately have to machine the cases.

His motor:

http://310rduner.tzo.com/Other%20250Rs/chefmotor.jpg

http://310rduner.tzo.com/Other%20250Rs/Radiator%20Lines%20Plumbed0002.jpg

[Knips178]

holy $%*t dude! :huh

You must be a duner, I never see anything that nice around the midwest mud trails.

Originally posted by ReeFeR
haha i smoke 400ex's and 250r's lik their mini quads:blah: sumbody that thinks they can ride in south jersey please pm me to race cuz ill smoke ne1 on a track :macho

Your attitude sucks so your racing must too.....:blah:

[diesel-mech]

Dude that R is sweeeeeeet!!!:blah: :blah: :blah:

How can anyone need Viagra with Eye candy like that????:p:eek2:

[AndrewRRR]

The Airstrykers, PWK's, and PJ's all use the same main jets.
15/38 is too tall, I run 14/38 on my 350R. I could pull 15/38 but there is no reason to go 100mph where I ride.
Chef what size carb are you running? Looks kinda small. When I get my tranny fixed and you get your bike together we need to race :devil:

[the-ex-files]

That R is amazing!!!!!! Holy crap, that thing must push some serious ponies!!!!!!

Originally posted by Rico
Your attitude sucks so your racing must too.....:blah:
alrite wat ever rico just because i dont have 5000 posts on ex riders and have no life but on the computer like you that means i suck, i dont think so i will blow by any one on this ebsite any day

[Rebelrider4OOex]

Originally posted by ReeFeR
alrite wat ever rico just because i dont have 5000 posts on ex riders and have no life but on the computer like you that means i suck, i dont think so i will blow by any one on this ebsite any day

dude when i say this i speak for ever 1 shut the **** up, ive read all ur posts and alls u do is trash talk people or their quads ands say how good you are, we dont want or need u bull ch!t here and i know for a fact u couldnt beat half of tyhe people on here.........we got rico on a 400ex that will smoke u, bill ballance santo derisi (sp) matt smiley chris borich doug gust and others that u would get lapped but they we have just guys that are pros but are extremely talented that i would bet money on over u so intill u prove how good u are shut ur mouth and stop sayin how good u are and how bad every1 else is and grow up.........im just getting it to racing so good for u if u can beat me but u dont gotta put down people that arent as good

[Chef]

Originally posted by AndrewRRR
The Airstrykers, PWK's, and PJ's all use the same main jets.
15/38 is too tall, I run 14/38 on my 350R. I could pull 15/38 but there is no reason to go 100mph where I ride.
Chef what size carb are you running? Looks kinda small. When I get my tranny fixed and you get your bike together we need to race :devil:

The carb is kinda small, only a 38. Would like a 40.5 or something, but I dont really have money to throw at that bike right now. The cylinder also makes everything else look small...:blah:

Reefer, all I can say is you need to STOP DRINKING THE BONG WATER.

[310Rduner]

POS:o

http://310rduner.tzo.com/Other%20250Rs/250%20%20banshee0001%20cut.jpg


It's slow too

http://310rduner.tzo.com/Other%20250Rs/end%20of%20the%20season%20trophies.jpg

[QuadRacer041]

Originally posted by ReeFeR
alrite wat ever rico just because i dont have 5000 posts on ex riders and have no life but on the computer like you that means i suck, i dont think so i will blow by any one on this ebsite any day




hahahahaha i bet i never even see u at e town, your all talk.

[Knips178]

damn 310rduner, that's alot trophies and two very nice quads!

Reefer, if your so bad ***, let's see some podium pics or trophies like duner put up. I'm not calling you out cause i have alot, but i'm also not the one saying how much everyone else sucks. I know I have alot to learn, plus i'm not a D$%k like you.

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by Chef
The carb is kinda small, only a 38. Would like a 40.5 or something, but I dont really have money to throw at that bike right now. The cylinder also makes everything else look small...:blah:

Reefer, all I can say is you need to STOP DRINKING THE BONG WATER.

Yeah I went from a 38 A/S to a ESR 40.5mm on my 350R. It woke up the top end without hurting the bottom.

[powerslider]

Originally posted by Knips178
I have to work on the jetting, but you guys must have some serious power to just pop a wheelie in any gear with out reeeeeally leaning back! On a stock bore and stroke 250r i have lrd mx porting, lrd adjustable pipe and silencer, 38mm airstryker, 18" rear wheels and running 15/38 gears but can't pull a wheelie to save my life. The motor has about 4hrs on it since it was rebuilt and ported, so is it just still breaking in or should i be looking for a problem somewhere?

It just sounds like i should be expecting more power than i'm seeing by what you guys are saying with wheelie'ing being a problem.

i'm running a 180 main and don't know the pilot, but it's not blubbering on top like i would think it would if it was fat.



I have an 88 stock (66mm) bore/stroke, Sandtrix mx porting, ESR trx5 pipe, V-Force, Coolhead (19cc dome yields 215 psi compression) 38 Airstryker (180 main 45 pilot) complete stock airbox with lid on and snorkle, 14/39 with 20" tires.

The first 4 gears on the pipe with good traction it will wheelie over if you don't back out of the throttle no matter how far you lean forward. I am very surprised how strong this setup runs.

Check your compression psi for reference, what are you running for octane on the fuel?

[Knips178]

I'm running 205psi on 110 octane race fuel. I have a 175main and i don't know for sure, but i think it is a 52pilot. It pulls good and is jetted right, but the wheelie power isn't there. it's a stock cylinder and head. I adjusted the lrd pipe all the way together to widen the powerband, but when it was spread apart it had more hit. should it spread the pipe to give it more hit and work on shifting into that band? Is the wider powerband a loss of power?

[powerslider]

The pilot might be larger than you need, does it idle ok? Mine wouldn't idle very well with the pilot that came in the carb, I dropped back 2 sizes. Do you adjust the airscrew? Where is the needle clip at? Are you running an airbox with the stock boot?

Shortening the pipe will move the power up in rpm, set it so there is 3/8" between the tabs to start with and make sure the pipe halves are sealed. If it leaks it won't run as good.

LRD tunes for smooth rideable power that won't wear you out like a radical lightswitch powerband will so that's maybe why it's not so wheelie happy.

The gearing I'm not sure on being your running 18" tires, try adding a couple teeth on the rear, it should pull harder.

I also think your running higher octane than you need, mix some 93 into that 110 @ 50/50

Check the packing in your silencer, if it's blown out performance will suffer.

Check the reeds, if the petals don't lay flat against the cage, replace them. If your running a reed spacer, take it off. You loose power because they lower the primary compression (crankcase) which forces less air/fuel charge up thru the transfers to fill the cylinder. Less charge=less power....

[Knips178]

so what's the point of running reed spacers then? topend?

[powerslider]

Running a reed spacer will soften the hit reducing wheelspin, rider fatigue. It may also be used on a big bore engine where the reed cage may be obstructing the intake ports.

[Knips178]

so for my stock displacement the spacer is taking power away? And the reeds should be stiff flat against the reed cage. I need to adjust the lrd pipe to spread about 3/8" and it should run much better?

Oh, sub question; when you adjust the lrd pipe to widen the powerband are you actually lossing peak power?

[powerslider]

Yes if you have a reed spacer take it off, the reeds need to seal against the cage or during transfer some of the fuel charge will go back through the carb instead of filling the cylinder fully.

Adjusting the pipe will change the powerband up or down in the rpm range not neccessarily make it wider or narrower. Experiment with it till you get it the best for your riding style.

[Knips178]

I looked last night and there is a 1/4" reed spacer in there which I want to take it out, but if i do the intake boot won't be long enough to reach the carb. What's the fix for this? When you put a reed spacer in do you trim that boot to fit or is it a different boot all together?

[04'400ex'er]

Reefer is gay:p I bet there is people on 300ex's on this ssite that could out run him. Even if he has a bad *** "fo fitty".
sorry to put you on the spot, but Lets see the pics reefer?

[powerslider]

Knips,

What reed cage do you have, I have a V-Force on my stock bore 88 with the stock intake boot and airbox boot. It fits fine, yours could be trimmed but without seeing it I wouldn't know. You can get new parts from Service Honda if needed. I installed an 86 airbox boot on mine, it doesn't have the plastic resonator that bolts to the frame on the later models.

The Rad valves have a rubber sleeve that attach the carb to the cage which could be replaced with the correct length.

Look at your airbox mounting, maybe you can slide the box forward enough.

[2k2-300exnj]

a 250r is my choice i love mine now that its done and its awsome on the track once u get used to it

[twisted threads]

knips if your running 15/38 gearing on a stock cylinder your geared way to high. You should be 13/38 or maybe 14/39. there is so much that can make your bike run better but I think if you made a little gear change you would be very happy with it. If it was me I would be running 13/38 gearing with a stock cylinder.

[Knips178]

Thanks, I am now running 13/38 gearing and it did help. I'm changing the adjustment on the pipe right now to space it out about 3/8" to give me more of a hit. I talked to Gary at Total Performance and he said the reed spacer actually gives you a little better bottom end so I should probably leave it in. I'm going to take it apart tonight to check the reeds and take pictures so I can post them. The guy I bought the 250r from thought it had v-force carbon fiber reeds, but wasn't sure. How do I tell what reeds are in there and what cage is being used?

[TeamTaylorRace]

After the topic of trophies came up reffeer hasn't come back....

he proboly dosen't even have a wheeler :D

[Knips178]

also, does anyone here run v-force delta 3's? where is the best place to get that cage and reeds?

[powerslider]

Originally posted by twisted threads
knips if your running 15/38 gearing on a stock cylinder your geared way to high. You should be 13/38 or maybe 14/39. there is so much that can make your bike run better but I think if you made a little gear change you would be very happy with it. If it was me I would be running 13/38 gearing with a stock cylinder.

He mentioned running 18" rears so the gearing might not be what it seems.


I don't see how the reed spacer helps the bottom end considering how it affects the primary compression. If you can, try running without it, you can always put it back on.

My Delta 2 cage is gray plastic with the V-Force decal on the side, it will have double the number of reeds of a normal cage. You'll see it when you get it out. If your going to buy a new cage I would get a Rad valve (Boysen) It may fit your application better.

[Knips178]

I've heard alot of mixed oppinions on boysen vs. vforce reeds. is one gunned more towards low end or they both do the same thing? I've heard the vforce delta 2 is better than the 1st one and no one i know has tried the 3 yet. Some people say stay away from boysen cause there junk, but i have no personal experience with one. how do you tell if you have a boysen?

[powerslider]

I would choose a Rad valve for better low to mid response and the Delta for mid to top. There is nothing wrong with the Boysen, they have a machined aluminum cage, Boysen will also be printed on it (carb side). If you go with the Delta make sure you get one for the TRX and not the CR250, the cr reeds will break in the quad motor. I have heard more reed failures from the Delta's than the Boysen and part of that may be due to mis-application. The delta 3's don't use screws to attach the reeds to the cage, they are removed and installed with a special tool that comes with the cage. The Delta cages are plastic and I'm not that impressed with that for the price you pay but they work.

[AndrewRRR]

There's no mistaking the reed cages once you know what they look like. You don't need to pull them to check. www.mototassinari.com has pics of the v-force. It's a plastic gray cage that has VForce printed on the side. The Boyesen is aluminum and says "boyesen" on the flat part facing your carb.
If it's not one of those two it's probably a stock cage with carbon reeds (v-force reeds will not fit anything but a v-force cage).
I have used both on my R and decided to stay with the v-force. I think they may give a little more bottom as well as top end. The reed petals are really light so they open more at lower rpm's. On top they have more surface area than the rad valve. They are both good cages and I wouldn't say it's a night and day difference switching between the two.
As far as the delta 3's, there has been a lot of speculation but I don't think they are out for quads yet. I have heard stories of the sled and bike guys losing power with the 3's and going back to delta 2's, so maybe Moto Tassinari went back to the drawing board. The easiest way to tell between 3's and 2's is the 3's have a black plastic housing instead of the gray housing like on the 2's.
If you want a rad valve, I have one or two sitting on a shelf. PM me if interested.

[Chef]

Hey Andrew, I'm ready to race ya. :cool:

http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/Chef/Done0006 cut.jpg

[Knips178]

Is there a big difference between the stock cage with carbon reeds and the boysen or vforce as far as performance goes?

[Knips178]

Here's a close up of my intake area. Not super clear, but it's all i got right now for pics.

http://domino.newvisionnet.com/joey/atv/250r/reedclose.jpg

see if you can tell what the reed cage is and if there is a spacer.

[powerslider]

No spacer, looks like the stock cage...

[Knips178]

So then what's my best setup? V-force delta 2 with a spacer or no spacer? where's the best place to buy a vforce delta 2?

[powerslider]

It's your call but personally I would get a Rad valve (Boysen) for the set up you have and no reed spacer.

Try Rocky Mountain ATV. C&D Racing etc. Everyone sells them so shop around.

[AndrewRRR]

I bought my V-force 2's at www.motosportoutlet.com
The price was pretty good, I think it was like $125 or $130 and shipping is free on orders over $100 (although they are close for me so I can pick stuff up).

[XANDADA]

spacers only lessen the midrange hit at least on my setup. I thought it actually took away some power. For bottom end/midrange reed assemblies, my vote goes to the cr250 reed cage and its cheaper than the v-force or Boyesen. V-force is better for top end though....

[Knips178]

Hey Xandada, how do you like your esr powervalve setup? I have been really looking at that setup for mine. Have you dyno'd it or have any hp numbers? What sort of setup are you running for pipe and carb on that?

[XANDADA]

I love it, powervalve is the way to go for xc. It's much easier to ride and still has plenty of power over the stocker. I can ride a gear low a lot of times and it still pulls good where as my old stock head would bog. My setup includes: stock airbox with EHS lid, 38TMX carb, CR250 Reed cage, ESR 265 PV ported for low end (trx7 port job) & ESR TRX5 pipe (midrange pipe)...

[Knips178]

I'm looking for a good mx setup that I can still take out with my buddies and mess around on. So I think i'm looking for good low with a massive midrange. The 265pv would be nice because I can still compete in atva events, besides the open class. My engine builder is an esr reseller so I think i'll give him a call and get one priced out. Start saving my pennies!

Oh by the way, for this sort of setup what should I do for mating parts. 265pv with delta 2 reeds, trx5 pipe, and 38mm airstryker?

[Fuchs105]

knips you really are a retard. the 265 will smoke the ex in top end. the 265r is a far better mx machine. i just watched phil ogram at a race locally smoke everyone on a 250r. later.

[Fuchs105]

even though the ex is good machine with some mods