Removing/Reducing Preload: Post results here.

[MIA450R]

Ok guys,
Figured I'd make a new thread for all to post results found from making this latest suspension modification--which was first mentioned in Pappy's thread: (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100283).


Personally, I removed 99% of my preload on the fronts, and only left 1-2 threads showing on the top of the rear spring's preload. I also currently have slightly more compression that stock in front and back, and have turned my rebound up almost all the way in back. Still dialing these in.

My results:
- As 4fiddyR posted in his thread, (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100975), my 'R now sits significantly lower and even looks wider.

- When I sit on the 'R now, I feel like I'm "in" the quad, and not on top of it.

- While riding, taking turns, whether slow or high speed, it feels MUCH more stable. I am still dialing in the compression (to eliminate any diving in high speed turns).

- Doing donuts and "backing into high-speed turns" (whipping back end out) is a piece of cake now. The quad WANTS to slide out from under me, instead of trying to force it to. HUGE difference here. Doesn't want to 2-wheel anymore.

- Small jumps are no problem.

** However **
I have not had a chance to hit some high-speed whoops, nor have I had a chance to jump big air yet. Can someone else test these 2 out with the preload removed and let us know results?

[Honda]

I will be playin my suspension this weekend, I am going to try these new settings out.

Almost sounds too good to be true, I'll give her a go though.

[Pappy]

my take on the stock shocks are this:

1) backing off the pre load sets the trx where it needs to be

2) each rider will have to basically start from the bottom of the compression and rebound settings and work up slowly until the rider feels comfortable and the settings suit the riding style

3) by having the pre load all the way up, if a rider gets the other settings about right he still has the ability to add pre load and tweak the settings.

4) in my opinion honda should have set these shocks up like this from the factory

after riding mine with the pre load out and settings towards the soft side i feel much better on my trx.

[avaloncon2]

I am still playing with my settings.I backed the preload off and it is much better, It doesnt feel like it is pushing when I corner.

[4fiddyR]

I took all the pre-load out of my shocks as stated about me earlier in this post. I have not touched the compression or re-bound. I am 6ft and weigh 235 with gear on. If I flat land something I bottom out, but if I just down side it it feels good. I'm just nervous about tweaking the shcoks. I'd like to get ehem right for me, I just gotta get a baseline on where to start.
I don't know what your supposed to have. Anyone like Pappy know what I should start at?
Thanks

4fiddyR

[Pappy]

what are your settings at now?

if you are bottoming out ..crank a few turns down on the pre load and go up 2 clicks on comression. continue that until you only bottom out on the largest of jumps(dont bottom the chit ot of it)

from there fine tune it

[4fiddyR]

I never adjusted the compression or rebound, they are still in the stock location. I only messed with the pre load.

[the Z Man]

I lowered the springs as far as they would go, that gave me about three inches of sag in the back, the only problem was the *** was kicking me off the seat, I lowered my compressoin way down and raised my rebound 3 clicks, I am bottoming on the flat lands but feel real tight in the cornering and stutter bumps. This setting don't make sence but it feels alot better than looking at the ground with my feet off the pegs.:eek2:
If any one has better suggestions I am open, I heard Todd @ TCS has some great things to d oto the stockers

[joe1l]

Does any one have any suggestions on how to get to the rear shock, so that I can lower the preload on it. I did the fronts, but now I want to lower my preload on my rear. Is there a way to do it while the shock is still on the bike? How much preload should I take of? I adjusted the fronts so that i could see only 2 threads, should I do the same to the rear?
Thanks,
Joe

[Hammer trx450r]

hey joe go in from the side with a long screwdriver and hammer to knock off the locking nut.

[MIA450R]

Originally posted by 4fiddyR
I took all the pre-load out of my shocks as stated about me earlier in this post. I have not touched the compression or re-bound. I am 6ft and weigh 235 with gear on. If I flat land something I bottom out, but if I just down side it it feels good. I'm just nervous about tweaking the shcoks. I'd like to get ehem right for me, I just gotta get a baseline on where to start.
I don't know what your supposed to have. Anyone like Pappy know what I should start at?
Thanks

4fiddyR


Keep in mind, the 450R manual explains how to return the shocks to stock settings. Dude, you weigh a few pounds more than me, and I'm running my compression slightly above stock setting. Try bumping the compression up a bit at a time, and see how you do on the flat landings. I'm not so certain on how to adjust the rebound, I guess if you feel like you're getting bucked at all, adjust it to slow the rebound.

Let us know how you make out...

[Honda]

You should be bottoming the suspension at least one time on the track. If you don't bottom out at least one time (Largest Jump, Bump, etc) then you are not getting 100% out of your suspension. Now, you don't want it to bottom out real hard, just bottom or near bottom.

:D

[4fiddyR]

I'll tweak them this weekend, It rained here all day today, I want dry conditions when I mess with my shocks, I'll let ya know how I make out, thanks all!!!:devil:

[raybones]

which is the rebound and which is the compression?????
:eek2:

[Hammer trx450r]

comp up top on rezzie rebound at bottom

[Hammer trx450r]

hey joe where in jersey?

[joe1l]

Hammer I'm up near Morristown, where are you at?
Joe

[kbass24emtp]

I did this mod with the shocks and they are 100 times better. I have 99% of preload off front shocks and compression 1/2 turn harder than the stock setting. The rear preload is about 4 threads from the top, and two clicks stiffer. Thanks a ton MIA450R and Pappy for all the help. They now work great.

[Hammer trx450r]

im in turnersville off of cross keys rd. where do u ride at?

[Pappy]

Ive gotton alot of pm's asking what is what...i tried this i hope it helps

[MIA450R]

Right on kbass...

Good idea Pappy...should clear things up a bit for all.

Just keep in mind that we all need to tweek the compression and rebound to fit our riding needs and riding weight.....but.....


DAYUM, every time I take her out now, my smile gets bigger and bigger. She just handles like a dream....just like my 400EX with +4 axle and +3 fronts, even better perhaps...

[RMX500]

how do you play with the adjusting / locking rings? I wanna go ditch the pre-load on my predator right now but i've never touched the shocks before.

[MX#9]

I don't know about a predator,but if you look at Pappy's photo, take a hammer and a punch,put the quad on a stand to take the weight off of it, take the hammer and punch and spin the lock nut towards the top of the shock. Reach in and then spin the spring towards the lock nut[the adjuster will spin with the spring]. When you have it where you want it,take your hammer and punch and ponud the adjuster nut tight against the lock nut. What you did was take tension off off your spring,creating a lot more sag in the quad.

[MIA450R]

If your spring's preload adjusts in the same way as whats on the 450R, looking at Pappy's picture, use a screwdriver and a hammer to loosen the top locking washer (clockwise tightens, ccw loosens) all the way to the top of the threads. Then, turn the adjusting washer to the desired setting....towards the top of the threads (ccw) removes preload, towards the spring (cw) increases preload. Then, turn the locking washer cw, and tighten it against the adjusting washer.

done.

[RMX500]

thanks.. I've been killin my arm tryin to twist it with my hand and i even tried pulling to twist with the hooker end of a hammer. i'll go try the other method now... hopefully this works.

[RMX500]

k now i have another problem... the spring ain't long enough to touch both the base of the shock and the bottom of the adjuster nut when the pre-load is minimum...

[MX#9]

You don't want the spring flopping around loose in there! You HAVE to have some tension on the spring,or a different spring.

[WOracing]

yes i really need some help with dialing in my suspension....culd some1 please give me an IM: WOracing19

I would really appreciate it if some1 could help me...thanx in advance

Kevin

[tkwarrior]

Here is what I used to adjust my suspension. The tools came with my 03 VTX1800. It took about 10 minutes to adjust both sides.

Part Numbers for the tools with est prices from your local Honda Shop.

http://www.texasatvs.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2367&stc=1

89202-MT3-000 - Wrench about $6
99006-12000 - Handle about $2.50

[2manycrashes]

Please Correct me if I am wrong, but is removing all the pre-load a good idea? The reason I ask is that I tried this before and found that removing the pre-load would tend to make the bike favor the front more when landing.

I'm pretty new to adjusting suspension myself so I've got a lot of questions. The problem that I run into is that more often than not, the advice is more so for the lighter rider. Lighter being around 160 lbs. I weigh about 210 plus gear so the adjustments are a bit different. Also, what suspension feels good for the dunes and really hard fast whoops isn't exactly what is needed for MX and or trail riding.

After screwing with the suspension multiple times, I've set everything back to the stock setting except for the rebound on the rear. It is set for full hard, otherwise you will get bucked off going fast across the hard sand whoops. I'm going to try it out next week to see how it works out. It will be in the sand, so that is always a bit misleading.

Thoughts?????

[hsr]

Roughly how much lower and wider does this suspension mod make the 450r sit, as in inches???

[4fiddyR]

I'm giving ya rough estimate here.
I took all of my preload out of my fronts, no 2 threads showing, I took all of it, and front I would say about 1 inch
and the rear I would guess around 2, I really think it's a big difference.

I feel like I'm on a race quad now. It felt too tall before for my liking.

[snow4fun]

Question for you guys about the rebound damping. The book says to turn the rebound adjuster clockwise until it no longer turns (lightly seats) and this is considered (full hard) It says this is for a firmer ride and rough road conditions. Does this mean it slows down the shock from rebound? Will this help so it doesn't try to kick your butt over the handlebars in whoops? I know the rebound is adjusted at the bottom of the shock and I haven't adjusted it yet but have felt like the shock is rebounding way too fast and was wondering if I go towards this (full hard) setting if it will help this condition. Thanks in advance. Scott

[Hammer trx450r]

Originally posted by snow4fun
Question for you guys about the rebound damping. The book says to turn the rebound adjuster clockwise until it no longer turns (lightly seats) and this is considered (full hard) It says this is for a firmer ride and rough road conditions. Does this mean it slows down the shock from rebound? Will this help so it doesn't try to kick your butt over the handlebars in whoops? I know the rebound is adjusted at the bottom of the shock and I haven't adjusted it yet but have felt like the shock is rebounding way too fast and was wondering if I go towards this (full hard) setting if it will help this condition. Thanks in advance. Scott

You are exactly right!! And guys push down on the bike you can feel it in your hands whether its slowing down or going faster

[Honda]

O.K. !

I admit, I was skeptical at first that these settings would help.

I removed all the preload from the front shocks, left only three threads at the rear.

The thing sits about an inch lower all the way around and seems to be about 3/4" to an 1" wider up front. It also handles much better with none of the tipping sensations it used to produce . My 450R even seems to slide better now.

A buddy and I went to the Badlands this weekend, after dialing in the rebound and compression settings, I can honestly say that the suspension is 200% better.

I took most of the compression out of the front, and turned the rebound towards full hard on the rear leaving about 1/2 turn.

Nice thing about Badlands, there is lots of different terrain to ride on, you can pick the condition you need to test your settings out. I don't feel like the shocks are beating me up anymore. I am still not 100% happy with the rear suspension though, it still seems kind of bucky. I think an extended swing arm would help smooth things out.

:D

[MIA450R]

95% (full hard) rebound on the rear helps...but it still rebounds pretty quickly. Dont understand why, the fronts rebound much slower than the rear...

[Honda]

oh Yea! I left the rebound on the front at stock setting, and compression on back at stock setting.

Yea, the rear adjustment for rebound is kind of weak!

I have a race this sunday at HEllSpin Acres. Hopefully I will do much better than last time with the new suspension adjustments.

[kwatts400]

I did mine for my trip to Geogia last weekend. I took the preload almost all the way out (2 threads left), half turn softer compression on fronts 1 click in rear, full turn softer rebound front & rear. I loved this setup, smooth over all the jumps and really nice out on the trail. I got compliments from everyone that rode it, including a guy that races mx on a yz125.

[Manny55]

Ok i like dragging in the sand, and i like riding the trails in the sand. What do you think i should start with for shock adjustments. Ok i get the preload thing and how to adjust it but when your talking about the rebound and compression thingy i dont get it. Can someone explain to me what they are and how to lower or higher the rebound or compression.

[Honda]

O.K. Here goes!

Preload= The amount of tension placed on the spring. When you remove or take preload out of the suspension you are actually taking tension off the spring. This unloads the spring and causes the quad to sit lower and have a softer ride. If you add preload, the quad will sit higher and have a stiffer ride. More preload for heavier riders, less for lighter.

Rebound= The speed at which a shock allows a loaded spring to return to it's uncompressed state. Rebound controls the speed at which the spring unloads. Harder rebound will make the spring return slower, softer will make it faster. If you push down on the front end of your quad, then release, the speed at which it ruturns to it's normal ride height is controlled by the rebound adjustment.

Compression= Compression is the force it takes to bottom the suspension. Compression is controlled by small holes in a valve inside the strut, the shock is filled with fluid. When you try to compress the suspension, the fluid is forced through small holes, the speed at which the shock is allowed to compress is determined by how much fluid passes through the holes at any given speed. Smaller holes will make the force harder, larger will make it easier. This setting is really used to control high speed stiffness. If you notice the front end is beating you up in whooped out sections of a track, then turning the compression setting towards soft would make the quad ride smother and soak up bumps better. If you are bottoming the suspension out, then you can add compression.

It really is not difficult to adjust the suspension. The settings you choose will be determined by how you prefer your machine to ride, and for what riding conditions you are riding in.

Best advice is to get a handle on what each adjustment changes, then go out and start playing with it. Only make changes to individual settings at a time, that way you know what each setting changes and how it effects your handling.


;)

[quadsrfun]

hey HONDA i will be at haspin racing my 450r also, look me up i will be in a 97 ford f150 with a trailer ,the trailer will have GEARWORX ATVS on the sides ,it is a black trailer , see ya there .