View Full Version : Dry Sump design flaw?
I had something crazy happen the other day on a routine oil change. I was removing the drain plug on the dry sump, and when I went to crank on it, it 'popped' and oil started pouring out at the top of the drain plug boss. Through further investigation, I realized that the entire boss on the bottom of the dry sump had busted right off, WITH the bolt. I took the dry sump out and after looking a little closer, the boss isn't even welded onto the sump, it's fused or something. That is WAY too weak for something that will be frequently accessed. I called the dealer, they want almost $300CDN for a new sump (ya right!) so I had it TIG welded and it's now 10X stronger than it ever was...
Has anyone ever had this happen to them? I couldn't believe how poorly it was assembled!
Note to everyone: Be careful when removing that bolt in the future!!
brink400
03-12-2002, 10:44 AM
Ive heard of that happening to several people. Sounds like honda needs to make some changes to it.
VegasEx'r
03-12-2002, 10:45 AM
There was a post a month or so ago about this. If I remember correctly, the best fix was to have it welded, as you did (or buy a Pingry tank). I haven't had this problem, but I get nervous every time I change my oil.
That's the worst!
Honda MUST know about this by now. I didn't even use any force on the thing and it ripped right off, all my buddies are scared to change their oil now!
I asked my dealer about this before I picked up my '01...
His response was "Honda is aware of it, and the've fixed it"...
Since then I've seen at least 15-20 posts on the forum of '01 owners who have had it happen to them..
The only real answer is to correctly torque it down, with an accurate torque wrench, and hope for the best :D I've never had any problems with mine, but I can see where the potential is there for trouble..!
Leo
400exBro
03-12-2002, 03:38 PM
happened to me too this fall, i was so mad, i used to correct torque too. i went to the honda dealer they gave the number for honda canada, we called them, they said they will call us back and we have never heard a word since. i payed 260 for mine at hully gully in London ontario. I would buy a pringly one if i were you.
Were abouts do you live in Barrie???
lata
Bro
Nj400EX
03-13-2002, 01:58 PM
Can someone show me a pic of the boss welded on to the sump ? I'm going to take my quad to work one of these days and TIG weld it . Just want a pic to make sure i do it right , thanx
canadian400ex
03-13-2002, 04:28 PM
Happened to me in the fall. I took it to a machine shop and had it welded...there is such a mess of weld around it that I'll have to take the tank off just to change the oil.(because it wont fit through the hole in the frame where the drain bolt is supposed to fit.).....Also, when i run it, sand will stick to the weld....a film of oil seeps out and the sand sticks to it.... But it wont drip a drop when sitting in the garage.:confused:
I'm gonna tinker with it, but i'll prolly buy a new one. How much more $ is a pingry tank?
That happens alot. Happened to me on my stock oil tank too. Got a pingry instead. As far as i can tell, that part of the pingry tank isnt welded on, its just formed into it...like it was made in a cast thing...
NJ400,
I'll try and get a digital snap of it this weekend, and post it on Monday.
Canadian400ex, sounds to me like a butcher welded yours together. The one I had welded ended up better than new. The bolt is still accessible and there is no oil residue around the weld. Have you considered having the tank re-welded?
Holty
03-14-2002, 07:12 AM
HOTT440EX,
Do you think the Pingry tank will do the same thing if you wrench on it too hard? Is it setup the same way the stocker is as far as installing it goes? I really wanna get one soon. thanks.
canadian400ex
03-14-2002, 09:35 AM
Darvy, yeah the guy that welded it is supposed to be good enough to weld with his eyes closed....well I think he actually did weld it with his eyes closed.
Yeah, I think I'm gonna re-weld it again, and if it is beyond-repairable I'll order a new one and put a bead around it before it even goes on the bike (for extra support.)
Canadian400,
You shouldn't be beyond repair, but be careful what you use to grind the aluminum. Some grinding wheels really don't like the aluminum.
At the price of a new tank, I would exhaust every option possible before dumping my cash into another piece of crap oil sump, then getting it reworked.
What is this so called Pingry tank anyway? Is it just an aftermarket solution to the drain plug problem, or does it produce benefits, i.e. higher volume tank, better cooling?
brink400
03-14-2002, 10:38 AM
The pingry tank hold more oil than the stock one and has special holes that are supposed to help cool it even more.
http://www.crashers.com/ppdracing/400oiltank.jpg
That price hurts....
I'm just gonna go buy a 4L jug of milk, drink the milk, punch a few holes in 'er and get out the high temp. silicone... I'll post the results on Monday for anyone interested.
Anyone here have this tank?
If so - are the stock hose fittings still used on the new tank? (kinda looks in the pic you have to use a hose clamp type connector with a push-on hose?) That would not interest me if so!
no, you just use the stock fittings and stuff...Atleast I did...It has more oil volume, and I dont think you could break it with a normal sized ratchet or torque wrench...
Even though I got my tank welded back to new (actually it should be stronger than new) for my next oil change I'm going to try and drain it by removing the bottom hose. It looks like it should work (just got to see how fast it flows past the screens) and it is so much more safer. You can get a wrench on the filter nut and one on the hose flange and twist that off without putting any stresses on the tank, you can eaisly drain about 90% of the oil this way and for the rest you can flush it out by adding a bit more oil or by tipping the machine up. I really don't want to pay 3 bills for something I can make out of an apple juice can.
86atc250r
03-14-2002, 06:59 PM
Has anyone that's broken one noticed if the copper gasket was on the drain plug?
I have a buddy that has a believes that the breakage is caused by tightening down the drain bolt without the washer - the washer commonly falls off if the drainbolt is dropped into the oil...
Something to ponder anyhow.....
I've never pulled my drain plug in my 400, looked like a poor design so I decided to pull the hose where it connects at the bottom. I've had no problems the last year doing this, takes a little while to drain the oil but my time is cheaper than that tank.
Juggalo
03-14-2002, 09:14 PM
i think theres one or 2 guys in this forum who offer oil tanks similar to the pingrys only much cheaper.
86atc250r,
We put the aluminum boss in the vice and got the bolt out of it. It didn't actually have a copper washer though. It appeared to be your typical washer, except maybe a little thinner. It definitely had a washer though. I can't see the absence of a washer causing that thing to bust off, tell you the truth, the thing looked like it had been previously bent (and weakened). The amount of force I used on that bolt could not have bent the tank up the way it did.
86atc250r
03-15-2002, 07:24 AM
Couldn't remember if it was copper or not - thought it was, but my quad's been torn apart for 3 months, so obviously I haven't changed the oil in a while :)
Guess that throws off that theory -
The EX in question is my buddies, and he bought it used. There's a good possibility that the kid that owned it before lost the original, and just used what he had laying around.
I'm not sure what mine has for a washer, I'll be sure to have a look next time I change my oil though.
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